I hate how you have to finish your attack before you can switch to your other weapon. Sometimes I just want to slash, switch, shoot, but then I can't and have to finish the combo, and then switch.
It would be great if the reaction was a bit better.
Change weapons faster.
Sun, 05/01/2011 - 15:12
Sun, 05/01/2011 - 16:00
#2
This change would allow
This change would allow extremely exploitable first-swing-comboing, unless you're suggesting some kind of delay after the switch, which counteracts the implementation entirely.
Sun, 05/01/2011 - 20:06
#3
I assume he just means once
I assume he just means once the button is pressed yet after the animation is complete, upon the next swing, it should switch to the next weapon.
I find it hard to see how that implementation is exploitable, though inform me if it is. It shouldn't be as the full swing still would have to register before the weapon switches. So there's no room for like hitting with a cutter then switching to a faust then switching back to a cutter to make your faust swing faster.
As it stands now, you must finish a combo AND not swing again(shoot, whatever) for it to recognize that you told the weapon to switch. Which for me ends up with some very awkward "drop fully charged bomb, raise bomb, raise bomb" moments instead of "drop fully charged bomb, slash slash."
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 04:37
#4
No.
It takes time to stop and change weapons, even if your Knight is an expert.
What Hazel meant is [attack > change > change back > repeat] is exploitable with instant change speed and no cooldown. Especially with guns, where you HAVE to stop and wait for your combo to reset. If this method is faster than just swinging twice or waiting for a reload, it's obviously exploitable. If it isn't, it's pointless because it's just changing where the pause in your attack occurs i.e. moving it from before you switch weapons to after the switch.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 06:21
#5
eh, the first point is broken
eh, the first point is broken by the fact that you can just press space multiple times without being in battle and you get to see exactly how fast your knight can switch weapons, continuously and endlessly. Using any other reasoning is just making excuses to me. If I can switch weapons instantaneously without swinging, then I should be able to do so after swinging,dropping bomb, lowering gun.
The second is easy if they just deal with a bullet counter, sounds like its only relevant for guns. Additionally, even without that(because I don't actually want to think about how that can work 8D), I said the animation must still finish, in the case of a gunner their gun has to drop before the switch. That's already the existing way people dodge the reloading animation after all.
Using a set of three weapons, one gun, sword, and bomb. This is how it should go. In all cases below, assume a person is pressing the space bar in between the attack animation.
Sword to bomb.
Attack, (press space), attack
The full 1st combo slash must complete (takes less than a second anyway). The second attack press will cause the character to raise their bomb after that action was completed.
Sword to gun
Attack, (press space), attack
The full 1st combo slash must complete (takes less than a second anyway). The second attack press will cause the character to fire their gun.
Sword to sword.
Attack, (press space), attack
The full 1st combo slash must complete (takes less than a second anyway). The second attack press will swing the newly equipped sword.
Bomb to sword
Attack, (press space), attack
The upraised bomb is held and fully charged (though even if it isn't that's not exactly important so long as they are attempting to charge it). . However, the bomb must be dropped, whether by attacking or being attacked. If either of those occur, the next swing will be from a sword.
Bomb to gun
Attack, (press space), attack
The upraised bomb is held and fully charged (though even if it isn't that's not exactly important so long as they are attempting to charge it). . However, the bomb must be dropped, whether by attacking or being attacked. If either of those occur, the second attack press will cause the character to fire their gun.
Bomb to gun
Attack, (press space), attack
The upraised bomb is held and fully charged (though even if it isn't that's not exactly important so long as they are attempting to charge it). . However, the bomb must be dropped, whether by attacking or being attacked. If either of those occur, the second attack press will cause the character to start raising the new bomb.
Gun to sword
Attack, (press space), attack
A shot is fired. Until the characters hand drops, the weapon will not be switched(you will not be able to fire again because you initiated the weapon switch call meaning you are DONE with that weapo). Next attack press after that will cause the newly equipped sword to swing.
Gun to bomb
Attack, (press space), attack
A shot is fired. Until the characters hand drops, the weapon will not be switched(you will not be able to fire again because you initiated the weapon switch call meaning you are DONE with that weapo). Next attack press after that will cause the newly equipped bomb to be raised.
Gun to gun
Attack, (press space), attack
A shot is fired. Until the characters hand drops, the weapon will not be switched(you will not be able to fire again because you initiated the weapon switch call meaning you are DONE with that weapon). Next attack press after that will cause the newly equipped gun to fire.
All existing animation rules will still apply. Nothing changes not even the speed, only the ease that the transitions occur.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:33
#6
Okay.
So your proposal is basically to remove the switch weapons animation.
It takes time to stop and change weapons, even if your Knight is an expert.
This 'point' isn't 'broken'; I was trying to convey the message that the game mechanics are only trying to be as realistic as possible. The reason the animation and delay exists is because it shouldn't be physically possible for a Knight to execute a full-strength sword swing immediately after shooting a gun. Even if you drop your gun on the ground, you won't have a sword in your hand until you actually take it out. And even if you take it out while shooting, you'd still have to get into position/stance to actually use it, because you sure as hell can't use it with your shield arm. The same goes for switching to any other weapon too.
I agree with being able to queue actions i.e. telling your Knight to switch weapons beforehand. Other than that, absolutely nothing should be changed. It should still take exactly the same amount of time to switch weapons as it does now, and there should still be the same delay before being able to use your next weapon.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:36
#7
D: Never say realism in a
D: Never say realism in a game...ever...then we have to go into why we don't burn up the closer we get to the planet's core, where basil really hides his recipes, why we have no ability to dodge roll, why there isn't a market (because that's certainly realistic =3), and still why we can switch within a half of a second because on that same reasoning no matter how you roll it, you shouldn't be able to switch weapons that fast.
Best quote I know from a gamemaker concerning realism, "Realism can s*ck my b***s"
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:04
#8
i like the OP's idea or at least the theme of it
And i agree with NegimaSonic's 1st post. I really just wish that if i press to switch weapons during setting a bomb, that my next attack (however long it takes to execute) would be with my sword. As it is now, it can be a pain to switch weapons off of a bomb. When i press to switch weapons, it should switch my weapons instantly in the HUD (at the bottom) and then give me whatever delay the devs feel is needed to make my next swing/attack.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:20
#9
Maybe I can clear something up.
NegimaSonic: "All existing animation rules will still apply. Nothing changes not even the speed, only the ease that the transitions occur."
Awesomest (very next line): "So your proposal is basically to remove the switch weapons animation."
I'm sensing some failure to communicate. I think the issue is that the existing animation is fast enough that NegimaSonic considers it effectively instantaneous, while Awesomest thinks that NegimaSonic wants to change it to being technically instantaneous.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:21
#10
:)
@AscendantOat...
hahahahhahahahahaaha, good work :)
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:23
#11
Some combination of jeburk
Some combination of jeburk and AscendantOat's posts also say what I want haha..
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:30
#12
Note:
That wasn't meant as a slur on Awesomest; sorry if it came across that way. I find that many "disagreements" are really just misunderstandings that are unintentional on both sides. As far as I can tell, the only people that brought up true zero-delay switching did so only to reject it. Despite the thread title, even the OP was only asking for responsiveness: If you press attack, switch, attack, it should attack, switch, then attack instead of going into a combo like it does now.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:10
#13
Agreed.
I can understand the arguments made for the present system, but I still agree with the OP's sentiment. If I attack, then press the switch button/scroll wheel, followed by another attack, I am clearly asking to change weapons between attacks [with any necessary pausing in-between], rather than continue into a combo.
This suggestion has my support.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 13:25
#14
I think the "switching
I think the "switching weapons animation" is just fine with me! I have no problem doing attacks with my winmillion and then switching to my silver six and cap the gangsters (monsters). I think the animation is quick enough. =) Are you using slow swords *coughnoobyavenger/faustcoughhackcough!*? Maybe that could be the obvious reason.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:23
#15
Nobody!
Nobody is suggesting change the switching weapons animation!
Despite the thread title, even the OP was only asking for responsiveness: If you press attack, switch, attack, it should attack, switch, then attack instead of going into a combo like it does now.
Well, the OP is actually ambiguous. But the above quote is clearly what most people think was meant and many of us, including me, think this would be a great improvement to the game interface. It particularly gets me with switching from gun back to sword... if I accidentally trigger reload then my 'switch - attack' strokes are misread, and I have to wait to fire again and for my arm to come back again before hitting switch again. By which I mean it's -fine- that I accidentally triggered a reload and have to take that animation delay... it's -not- fine that my commands are misinterpreted because of it.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:54
#16
@Matoro
>He uses Winmillion
>ohwow.jpg
But on-topic, I agree with OP, an attack-switch-attack command should work like an attack-switch-attack, not an attack-attack-switch.
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 22:31
#17
BUMP :D :D :D
BUMP :D :D :D
Tue, 05/10/2011 - 00:20
#18
So all I got out of this is
So all I got out of this is you should be able to queue a weapon change while still using another weapon.
I wholeheartedly agree with this!
I think, say, if I am charging an attack with one weapon, I should be able to switch weapons, while still holding charge on the weapon I am currently using, then when I execute the charged attack, it should auto-switch my weapons over, so I can attack with the other weapon as soon as the switch weapon animation is done playing. Then, if I do a shield cancel on the last frame of the charge attack animation of my previous weapon I could then follow up with subsequent attacks faster because of shield canceling the switch animation. (which is already a mechanic useable in game)
This change would give a very fluid dynamic to how we execute attacks on monsters, and while it sounds exploitable, surely the devs could just program in some reasonable delays on attacks with new weapons maybe with some sort of improvised combo timer like I'm sure they already have implemented in the background.
Fri, 05/20/2011 - 14:27
#19
I suddenly remembered
I suddenly remembered this...and this could use a bump :D
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