Spiral Knights - Let's be honest guys...

Let's be honest guys...

142 replies [Last post]

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:26

Deltikon

How many of you actually support this awful economy, you need energy for almost everything!

Why can't just devs open up a cash shop to sell cosmetics for money instead of trying to grab us by our balls and force us to grind forever or to make us spend a few dosh to get what we want? They could basically get the same money afterall?

And let's not mention about the fatigue system... Oh boy, the amount of potential p2pers the game could have if it wasn't for that...

And this is not a suggestion, I'm genuinely curious on how many poor souls will actually defend this half-p2p grindfest. :)

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:30

Serell

"Why can't just devs open up

"Why can't just devs open up a cash shop to sell cosmetics for money instead "

Because the idea behind this game is that anything can be accomplished and obtained by free. They can't just change it now and add IRL money only cosmetics, becuase the playbase will feel lied to you and quit. Even though the DLC is only tradable through Steam, they are working on making it tradable in-game, so that doesn't count.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:33

Deltikon

But cosmetics and keys are not essential to the game

Unlike weapons and stuff like that.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:36

Serell

...

A lot of people like to make pretty costumes. I cannot enjoy a game without looking pretty. And it doesn't matter. It will still be a lie. You would make a horrible game developer.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:37

Deltikon

wat, getting rid of the grinding and energy limitation

is less important than looking fancy? You're funny for a troll.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:42

Serell

...

Not a troll. Actually, not lying to your playerbase is more important than getting rid of the energy system.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:50

Deltikon

You know many people, specially newcomes hate the system, right?

Right? And i'm not exactly telling to get rid of it, it could be used to just buy fancy stuff and skip grinding. It's better than using a cash ingame currency for everything.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:49

Softhead

Implemented a year into the game is just as a cheap move,

As the RSS change.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:50

Iron-Blast

I do agree that the energy system needs a bit of work.

I do agree that it is one of the things that drive away newcomers, I see that, and I think they need to do a better job of explaining it to people, because I'm pretty sure much of the playerbase just skip over the tutorial missions because they are too boring.

This idea and getting rid of energy is not the way to do it.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:52

Eltia

I just bought CE

I invested about $60 into CE in this last 10 days or so. I could have bought the CE with CR but I didn't. Why? I can either fund SK's development with real money (and buy Nick better dinner), or feed my CR into some jerks who manipulate CE market (which would indirectly cause me to farm more CR and drain all the fun out of this game). So the lesser of the two evils in this case, is Nick.

Nick and Eurydice, I hope you two both choke a little bit when you chew on that piece of steak that I funded you. You jerks just ruined my (and many other's) summer by taking away our old RSS!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 15:53

#10

Serell

...

You want to make cosmetics p2p only,right? Yeah idc what it is, the fact is it is a LIE if they do that. I dunno about you, but I don't like game developers that lie. Go play someother game that has backstabbing developers then tell me you want OOO to outright lie to its playerbase.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:00

#11

Deltikon

How exactly developers lie on that?

Sacrificing f2p swag for actual game improvement is such bad thing? And if it makes you a bit happier, it doesn't need to be literally everything with just cash. Some items could be bought with crowns aswell, but relatively expensive and much more limited.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:03

#12

Softhead

Grind for 750CE to open lockbox,

Next day, change happens.

Feel cheated.

Get RSS, like it.

Next day, changes to somthing out of your comfort zone.(If it wasn't announced)

You feel lied to as it was unnanounced.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:07

#13

Serell

...

It is a lie. I came into this game thinking my character could be just as pretty as everyone else (well I actually I bought a lil ce but I wasn't planning on it). They make p2p only stuff, lying to the players, they will all quit. Even it doesn't effect some of them, it is a lie. If they lie about that, how can you trust them about anything else? Sure, they might get an influx of new peeps who know nothing about the lie and do better, but that still doesn't make it right.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:06

#14

Deltikon

But you still can buy the key for the lockbox with energy

I'm saying to stop making the energy obligatory on the game for everything.

And as much that's a bummer, it's the devs' fault for not listening to the community about their opinions about the new bombs.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:09

#15

Deltikon

Serell

Do you actually play the game as it's meant to or just for dress-up?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:17

#16

Serell

...

I play it as it is meant to. I just can't enjoy it without sexy costumes of sexy.

Oh wait, does that a matter? Because I believe it's still a lie, and if OOO were to lie about letting me look good like everyone else, how is anyone supposed to trust them about anything else?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:18

#17

Softhead

Well gee,

Doesn't this pay shop where accesories prices and demand can be only changed via the P2Ps remind us of a product Abriviated as CE?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:19

#18

Deltikon

You still haven't told me

how it's exactly a lie. :s

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:20

#19

Serell

....

Because they said everything can be accomplished and obtained for free....

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:23

#20

Deltikon

...with the expense of a

...with the expense of a dreadful ammount of grinding?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:25

#21

Softhead

And insult to injury.

They're currently lying right now.

And yes, Delt. With all that stuff.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:10

#22

Acck

Disappointed

@Eltia

I am so disappointed.
You actually gave ooo real money when they cannot be bothered to answer any of our questions related to the RSS.

I personally refuse to give any more money to a company that has no respect for it's PAYING customer base.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:26

#23

Serell

...

Yep. There may be flaws, but anything is better than lying

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 17:25

#24

Eltia

@Acck

As I said, lesser of two evils. Nick is the lesser in this case.

But look at the bright side, think of the new funding as a good faith offer, for the SK development team and GM Eurydice to open up a constructive conversation about the problem at hand (removal of old RSS). I'm not threatening the Three Rings and I'll continue support it financially.

But,

please beware that good faith can only go so far. When your silence ends up chasing away your funder like myself because you believe keeping silence is the right way to handle customer's concern and eventually the problem will go away. Let me assure you, you are playing a very dangerous game here and the market is not as forgiving as you would expect.

Nick and GM Eurydice, I hope you are reading this, yes?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:05

#25

Acck

moved past

I have moved well past ever expecting the RSS to make a return in it's original glory.
My real concern lay in 3 areas.
First, the rush to market of a flawed item. (stun and disappearing shards).
Second, the removal of Elemental damage from an item that was purchased for it's Elemental damage.
Third, the heavily abused compensation scheme, and the diminishing of the compensation to actual users of the bombs by the abusers.

And no it is not a threat to close the wallet until these issues are addressed, it is the only power available to the consumer.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:14

#26

Orangeo

"How many of you actually

"How many of you actually support this awful economy, you need energy for almost everything!"

What a silly question. People who sell CE like a high rice, people who buy CE like a low price.
People who buy more CE will want a higher price, people who are free to play will want a lower one. However, by buying CE, you decrease the demand, and by no buying it, you increase it. Therefore p2p and f2p rely on each other.

"Do you actually play the game as it's meant to or just for dress-up?"

Lol, because you totally know how you're 'meant' to play the game. You play the game however you want. Don't try to remove something someone else likes just to make what you like easier.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:24

#27

Rommil

lol

basically you can shop and purchase anything you want with money.

i.e. Shop around the bazaar, trade chat, and auction house. See what you want. Open up your wallet, buy CE, trade for said item. Sooooooo, just one intermediary step from having a "for cash shop."

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:28

#28

Deltikon

"People who buy more CE will

"People who buy more CE will want a higher price, people who are free to play will want a lower one. However, by buying CE, you decrease the demand, and by no buying it, you increase it. Therefore p2p and f2p rely on each other."
Except there's more people offering high prices than people selling lower ones. And that leaves to inflation. And since you need energy to craft, that sucks.

"Lol, because you totally know how you're 'meant' to play the game. You play the game however you want. Don't try to remove something someone else likes just to make what you like easier."
This is an adventure game, not a dress-up game. You need gear to progress on the game, not accessories. A little gimmick for rich people matters less than important things for many players.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:32

#29

Serell

...

Do you reaaaaaally want lying game developers? I'm sorry, but can't think of anything worse that could happen in a game than lying developers ._.
Devs that ignore the playerbase is bad enough, in fact I might quit

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 19:21

#30

Princeberton

Live long and prosper

The energy system is just fine as it is right now. You can play the game indefinitely, you just have to use your crowns to buy energy, and continue playing. This is the only MMO I have ever encountered where everything can be obtained for free, and I like it that way.

If you enjoy playing the game, you shouldn't mind the grinding.
If you don't enjoy playing the game, then you should quit.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 19:34

#31

Little-Juances

It has a step progress. Hard at the beggining, yes. But not as bad as some make it sound.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 00:49

#32

Softhead

Princeberton summed it up.

This is one of the Best F2P game systems.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 01:34

#33

Mr-Baldy

I agree with Serell

Do NOT make anything exclusive to P2Per. That's what made me despise so many other games. I like my kitty ears and bomb bandoleer. If there was a Unicorn horn available, I'd want to be able to grind for it since I'm broke. I do not want to miss out on things because I don't have money because when I do get money, I'll spend it on something else.

I bought the Expansion pack and two Elevator passes so I'm not being a stingy F2P. I just don't want to have to fork over money to look as good as anyone else there is. I don't care what it fixes; Fully F2P is more preferable than cheaper CE.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 02:05

#34

Wodanct

Every single thing in this

Every single thing in this game revolves around someone spending money. There are plenty of other games that have better f2p systems and make much more money than Three Rings does without milking every single thing a person does for money. Air Rivals, Ace Online, Team Fortess 2, I can keep giving names if I must.

That level you played? That cost 10 energy. If you don't have mist that cost 10 CE and someone paid for that CE to exist. Crafting that gear above 2 star? Your mist tank isn't big enough so you must use some CE. Someone paid for that CE to exist. All those cosmetic on the AH that Three Rings didnt post themselves? They were all opened with silver keys and those keys cost 750 ce. That is more CE that someone paid money for. Shadow Lair? That cost 1800 ce per key! So every time a group of players plays a Shadow Lair about $5 worth of CE was used. All those Shadow Lairs mats on the AH? Once again a player or group of players paid CE to give those mats life in the game. Bribing Krogmo? I don't want to type another wall of text...

Every single bit of CE that is used in this game was paid for by someone. This games whole system is revolved around SOMEONE spending money. Playing a level, crafting gear, buying that cosmetic from the AH, opening a Shadow Lairs gate, playing OCH, etc. Someone gave Three Rings money to make that happen. This game is the king of milking money and yet makes less money than many other free to play games because other games aren't milking every single thing a person does for money.

This game has potential. What it needs is faster updated content, a better free to play economy to bring in more players (it is probably too late for this to happen), faster bug fixes. It needs a dev team devoted to working on Spiral Knights. I'd hate to think of how Three Rings has a small dev team and that same team is working on 2/3 other games at the same time. People scream at the thoughts of a Cash Shop, but games like Air Rivals have made a successful Cash Shop where everything bought from it is tradeable and at reasonable prices.

Spiral Knights, this game has a lot of potential, but it is being sent down the wrong path.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 02:05

#35

Softhead

So in total.

This game milks the P2P like a cow.

And If Delt's idea is added, it will only add to the milking.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 02:43

#36

Thorfinns

If you play the game you can

If you play the game you can achieve everything even the most expensive accesorie!It simply needs time and patience.If you pay ce u dont neet that.My personal opinion is to like something u must tire yourself to get it.The only problem i find in the ce system is that its not stable so the difficulty changes and the player get confused.The game milk the p2p like a cow?You are wrong man.They didnt force you to pay real money its your choice.If you dont have patience or you want to be super strong in no time its your problem..The only thing that OOO dont do, is to do actual updates because many things need to improve..Futhermore put more effort so the ce will be more stabilized(they try with promos but its not enough or good enough).I believe they are trying.Dont forget this game is a business so we cant be all happy...I may not be completely satisfied with OOO but i thank OOO for this game.Its a good game but it needs improvement.We ll see with the guild hall update..I hope it ll come soon.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 03:19

#37

Deltikon

@Wodanct

Ah, someone who actually gets it! Thought I'd only see spiral drones defending this half-p2p grindfest in this thread.

@Atrumvindex
"And If Delt's idea is added, it will only add to the milking."
Wrong, making everything possible to obtain with crowns but the accessories wouldn't be milking. Accessories are entirely optional in the game and players should pay it with real money if they want it. Other things, such as crafting in the other hand, are not.

@Thorfinns
So in a short phrase, if you don't like to grind, pay money. Yeah, that's how mmos work these days, and that's why they suck. And they can significantly improve the game if they don't make the game into an mediocre mmo grindfest.

@Princeberton
You're forgetting that in SK's case, you have 3 choices when you want to play the game longer and get the stuff asap, but you have no energy to keep playing:
- Spend your progress on another pack of CE, spend it on levels, rinse and repeat over and over for inifinte hours in order to get something (2 steps foward, 1 step back)
- Stop playing the game. You keep the progress on the game, but you are forced to stop playing it. (a couple of steps per day then stop)
- Buy CE or an elevator pass with real money so you can keep both progress and still be able to play the game. Unfortunatly, you just have given your money, which was the devs' "evil" plan all along. (pay so you can do all the steps you want without worrying about doing a bunch of steps back)

While the game is fun by itself, it's no excuse to be a grindfest, or to try to grab people by the nuts and demand money from them to let them go. Shame on you.

Also another thing: The "free" energy you need to progress on the game was paid by other players.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 03:07

#38

Abyssal-Flamberge

@Wodanct...

You are correct.

This game has potential. It isn't just... REVEALED yet.

@Deltikon

How do you mean? By the free energy we use is paid by other players?

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 03:10

#39

Deltikon

Huh?

What do i mean what?

EDIT: The energy you get on the market is paid by other players who sell in on 1st place. So if they didn't selled it at all to other players, you'd be the one who had to pay it in order to progress. That's why you can't say the game is 100% free, because that's a fake idea that somehow people managed to bite it.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:03

#40

Melisan

give it up Deltikon.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:10

#41

Trying

Just quit already.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:15

#42

Canine-Vladmir

mucho people are in denial.
Feel bad for yous guys. your being used while you say you control the economy :3 keep it up. better yet! argue that Im wrong.
"How many p2p does it take to figure out the truth?"

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:35

#43

Thunderbog

...

Deltikon. Ye're going too far.

"Ye do what ye want from this thread now on, if there's no change, hopefully ye should just play yer game and let the others be."

Ye do not want me to repeat the bold lines.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:38

#44

Deltikon

So much denial it hurts

Stay mad spiral drones.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:39

#45

Princeberton

Live long and prosper

Deltikon, the point isn't that the game can run completely without p2p players, that would just be stupid. OOO would starve. The point is that, if you so choose, you can do everything in the game without spending any of your real money.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:43

#46

Deltikon

Even if the company wouldn't starve to death if there was no p2p

The endgame, for a f2per would simply be impossible to reach without p2pers selling energy at the current state of this game, because just a mist tank is NOT enough to get 3* stuff, when MORE 4* or 5*. How can one person fail to realize that so badly?

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:43

#47

Thunderbog

*sigh*

Alright... I'll join and proof someone in agony for a little...

Cocosnake, I hope ye guys remember him. If ye remember a thread that he created of how much money he spent.

Lots of rich people like Rommil and Pawn, know their pain as well.

That's all.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:48

#48

Princeberton

Live long and prosper

Apparently I need to clarify my statement a bit more. I know that someone, somewhere has to pay for it, but that does not affect me on an individual basis. I (as can any player) can choose to play the game completely for free.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:51

#49

Deltikon

You can play for free all the time you want.

But good luck trying to get anything past tier 2 if there is no people selling energy.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 07:56

#50

Trollingyou

You fail to realize...

If players only bough what CE they needed to craft stuff, and nothing more (in other words not buying any to sell to other people), I'm pretty sure OOO would eventually go under. It costs a lot of money to maintain servers, pay people so they can put food on their tables, maintain buildings, and a bunch of other stuff we may not even realize.

It is true that this game isn't 100% free to play, no game out there is. Someone has to put money into it to keep it running, this stuff doesn't come free you know. Free to play simply means you can download it and start playing for free, as opposed to a subscription fee. Of course you are encouraged to spend money cause OOO wants to make money off of their product that they worked hard to make. If they don't make money the game gets shut down and the people will probably lose their jobs, neither of which we want to happen.

EDIT: I was ninja posted, do bear that in mind.

Search

Let's be honest guys...