My thoughts on how dual wielding and Two handed weapons should work in SK.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 01:15
You would think that cruddy no shield combo weapon or slower, no shield heavy weapon right?
Yes. Unfortuantly. I want to say this:
Break out of the damn stereotype.
Can't a dual wield weapon be a new weapon than "something like a Calibur dual wield". This weapon also has its own damage output, animation for dual wielding and a shield? The two handed weapon could just be a normal weapon. With a shield.
We have shield on our wrists. Why remove it if it's not on our hands. Then also consider the fact that despite their smal stature, they can lift stone statues and stay alive even after severe burns, poisoning and a rocket that would had blown up a human, yet we say they can't use a shield while using a two handed weapon/dual wielding.
I don't get following that same trend games do with dual wielding when it can be unique, as some of the game's content is.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 03:24
#2
So you say dual swords and
So you say dual swords and with shield in one hand right?I dont think the result will be good..I mean from the optical view..(in acheron the scabard remains low but imagine two swords up like calibur and a shield..)I would rather see OOO rings design something more stylish like Axes!Axes suits on the theme very well and gremlins use them already..
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 03:48
#3
No.
Let me check in Spiral-Spy first.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 04:57
#4
Ok send a picture if you
Ok send a picture if you can..I would like to see the result :)
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 05:09
#5
I see it working with
I see it working with thin/small swords, adn bucklers but holding something like a DA and plate shield is awkward.
I'm more curious about lockdown. How funny would it be to see strikers boosting while having a sword he-man style?
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 05:08
#6
Maybe a new pose for shielding?
Like you hold your shield up in one hand and the sword is held on the other, behind the player.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 05:14
#7
The laziest approach would be
The laziest approach would be to hide the weapons.
Or remove the shield, and make it look like the weapons are blocking, but still use the shield stats as reference (again, LD ruins it)
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 05:23
#8
I dont quite get it your
I dont quite get it your proposed stance..a pic would help or a drawing..
I think the shield kinda ruin the style of the second sword...
Its a big problem how to show their style..and its only for appearance does it worth it?
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 06:25
#9
http://www.imagebam.com/image
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 06:37
#10
LOL
Atrum responded right back :) with the answer.
just for that +1
but not for all the swords.
p.s. heres the dev's dual wielding :D --> http://media.spiralknights.com/wiki-images/5/5c/Vaelynsprite.PNG
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 06:58
#11
Yeah,
I was thinking of new weapons should be only with dual wield. like a alchemy line with dual wield.
Heck as Owao mentioned, make the spur lines like that.
Though ATM, I'm talkign about mechanics.
EDIT: With the shield animation, the bone weapon has disappeared. Odd....
Going to try with guns.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 08:01
#12
@atrumvindex Nice try and
@atrumvindex Nice try and thanks for the work..I dont know for the others i like better in one hand..Its weird sword with shield altogether..(imagine the guarding pose..)
Maybe another line as you said suit better...
I may found a solution.What you say if u dont hold the shield on the hand but leave it on your back....I know its an little clumsy but i cant think other way without destroyin the design...It makes a little sense because when u guard with ur shield is front u have from all the angles protection why not the opposite?
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 09:48
#13
Shielding.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/bbe8c8209176361
http://www.imagebam.com/image/03f46a209176368
http://www.imagebam.com/image/9c7fa7209176381
http://www.imagebam.com/image/9cb957209176394
http://www.imagebam.com/image/bdfa60209176384
http://www.imagebam.com/image/39c832209176398
http://www.imagebam.com/image/e36185209176418
Remember. this is all using the preset animations.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 10:58
#15
I didn't want to hijack it.
Your thoughts?
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 11:07
#16
Dual wield options
- Replace shield with second weapon; combo becomes twice as long, but still interrupts every third (or second) swing. No ASI. Noobs are punished, and the skilled are rewarded.
- Extra swing per attack, e.g. a striker replacement, where the ghost swing becomes a real second swing. Shielding still works normally. Knockback becomes an issue.
- Dual wielding offers a small benefit over traditional bonuses in exchange for a kind of shield nerf. Requires a new, complex mechanic.
- Purely graphical; no ASI, no extra swings, and no damage bonuses. Shield works normally. Not as fun.
Other concerns: if all current weapons can be dual wielded, then some kind of damage nerf should be in order. If only dedicated weapons can be dual wielded, I recommend small flourishes or those knives often seen with accessories.
And yes, I am aware of previous suggestions of this kind. I took inspiration from them.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 11:12
#17
I'm in for no 4...
Could it be like sacrificing shield bonuses(So they just have Status, and dmg type) for their own bonuses, while also being like option number four.
Like this new weapon, that is dual wield and has ASI, but loses all of the shield bonuses.(making it a generic defense, lv1 shield).
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 11:19
#18
I stand by the previous link.
If heavy swords (Troika, Sealed, Seerus hammers) were changed to the above mechanic and other swords nerfed slightly on swing range and damage (~0.3 swing radius decrease, ~-15% damage) it would change how people use swords completely; normal swords for faster swings but less damage or giant cleavers which risk disabling. Troika lines would have more not-shield health to make up for its lack of specialized damage/defense.
This would address the "whine whine overpowered Brandish/Calibur/Flourish/other", make Troika more useful, and limit how "overpowered" Sealed lines apparently are by taking shields away from them. However, it would upset sword users everywhere.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 11:31
#19
Hmmm.....
That seems like a good idea......
Wouldn't the possible backlash of change however feel similar to RSS in some way, only in a larger scale?
Just asking....
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 11:34
#20
Swords are already overused and overshadow other weapon types.
Buffing guns and bombs again would be counterproductive, seeing as we already do too much damage proportionate to our enemies.
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 11:46
#21
Oh yes,
I can agree.
Swords need to be changed.
Now, on the topic of guns.....
Mar, 09/04/2012 - 12:22
#22
Those T3 Gremlins
my thought: here goes!
in t3, some gremlins have shields on their backs!
so what im saying is, to not make hybrids look stupid, (sword/gun, sword/bombs) when you switch to duals, ur shield automatically goes to your back, (like in haven or other nuetrul zone)
How would you defend?
simply, switch to another weapon and defend.
reason why shielding with duals isnt really important is because we dont shield with certain weapons. i think. heck thats what i always do.
im pretty sure, its gonna come out confusing, but thats not my problem! (yea it is)
Mié, 09/05/2012 - 03:23
#23
This...
is the best dual wielding idea I have seen yet. +1
Mié, 09/05/2012 - 05:05
#24
abit confused
are you planing on making a Whole new sword for said dual wield purpose or all sword have the ability to us it? and if so (all old sword can dual wield) what would the charge look like especially brandish lines?
Lastly, since your dual wielding swords and guns what about bombs ? (not like your gonna dual wield those, are you?)
Mié, 09/05/2012 - 12:03
#25
i have an idea..
its not good or bad but how about making dual wield weapons have double the power of single handed weapons. that might sound abit OP but then you would have to substitute the shield or have a really weak shield instead. just to make it more fair. im just suggesting so please dont be too harsh on my comments. ^^
Mié, 09/05/2012 - 12:13
#26
Pictures!
Have some pictures.
The first problem with shield stance
Attacking.(Don't know if legit info or not, but there's no animation for Shield hand- The only attack animations are done with the right hand)
Twice the Polaris spam to screw you over!(Ignore the stuff in the background)
On other notes: Dual wielding require new animations. There's no preset animations for left handed stuff. Shield stance is hilarious with a left hand weapon. Big shields might make for some weird logic defying pose. Can't think of any attack combos that goes smoothly with dual wielding.
Also can't be bothered with angle shots.
Mié, 09/05/2012 - 12:32
#27
Just to keep them organised, since I'm responding to different things.
@Gigaflame Already there's a lot of problems. Such as:
1. So you hold a second weapon of the same type, and get double the power of it by using only one of them? Quadruple power if you smack with both!
2. Substituting the shield? The OP's main point is all about NOT substituting the shield
3. Weak shield? Like, 1-2*s? Still would not make sense.
Nope.
@Demotaasd: OP's point is about making a new weapon. If you allowed the current weapons, I don't know what to say- dual wielded hammers?! On charges, that's something we can discuss. I'd say make it something like the cutter's charge, except you hit with both swords.
@Canine-Vladmir: I don't think we should let duals be hybrids (Eg. gun/sword). Also, yes I don't think many use shields with *certain* weapons, but I'm pretty sure they use it for the mere ability to shield cancel.
I like Ghret's idea (link by luigiru), though that would need some reworking.
On other notes, there are 3-4 problems with this:
1. Graphical looks: The left handed weapon looks ridiculous with the shield animation.
2. Mechanics: How it functions shall be up for debate.
3. Lockdown? I don't think there's a major problem with it, apart from the graphical problem I already addressed. The problem if any would probably still go to mechanics.
4. Shield cancelling? Might look odd with shield cancelling, but again roots back to both the addressed problems: Graphical and Mechanics problems.
Jue, 09/06/2012 - 13:38
#28
Just to make it clear.
Seperate weapon lines from already established weapons.
The simplest for of dual wielding comes in the form of Acheron and lower's Sword-and-Scabbard style. We can still use a shield, though we don't use the scabbard to smack enemies or anything.
I still think that even if we gave this a chance, only give it to underpowered weapons.
/e imagines 5* Winmillion being dual wield to make up for lack of single hit power.
Still... I'll see the community's reaction to this owo