I'm about to start crafting my 5* helm but i don't know which one i should go for....i have a magic hood(2*) to choose from and a scary skelly mask to choose from(4*). My arsenal right now is avenger-gigawatt pulsar-magic cloak. Please help me on this!! :D
Thanks
-Mourning Sage
You should always look at 5-star items, and select which one you want, and *then* look back in their alchemy paths, to determine how to get there. Otherwise, you can get trapped in undesirable paths. So your armor is one of these:
* Divine Mantle (bad, because Divine Veil is better, and you'd never want to wear both)
* Grey Feather Mantle (very strong defensive armor, but no offense)
* Chaos Cloak (strong offense for hybrid players, but bad defense)
And your helmet is one of these:
* Divine Veil (very good for making a general-purpose armor set, but not great for specialized armor, due to lack of normal)
* Grey Feather Cowl (strong defense, no offense)
* Chaos Cowl (strong offense, bad defense)
* Dread Skelly Mask (okay defense, no offense)
Which ones you get depend on whether you're building a general-purpose armor set, and whether you can get away with having poor defense for the sake of strong offense.
Another problem you'll soon face is that your weapons are all elemental. You should really have two of the non-normal damage types (piercing, elemental, shadow). See the wiki page "Damage".
I know about the weapons changes from your guide....i'm thinking of getting a barbarous thorn blade!
@Bopp I'm more of a defensive person so i'm thinking of getting the Grey Feather Mantle and the Dread Skelly Mask. That way i can get elemental,shadow,and normal defense....right？Tell me what you think and anybody else pls give me your opinion on this.
actually, divine+skolver is one of the most popular all-around defensive combos, since it covers every damage type and most statuses.
So your weapons are going to be BTB and Polaris? And sometimes Divine Avenger? That all sounds great (although other elemental guns are more party-friendly).
Batabii is certainly right about Divine Veil + Skolver Coat (as you know from my guide). But, if you really want strong defense, Grey Feather Mantle and Dread Skelly Mask will work quite well for you. You'll be lacking piercing defense, but that is arguably the least important damage defense. It's less important than the most important status defenses (shock and freeze). Consider Grey Owlite Shield or Barbarous Thorn Shield maybe.
So this all sounds good. Have fun!
Ah yes that's what i forgot to put in my arsenal list...right now i have a wise owlite shield! What other elemental guns that are party-friendly would you recommend?
Polaris has so much knockback that it can really alter a fight, for the better or the worse. I really consider it a crowd-control weapon, more than a damage weapon. It is the "weirdest" of the elemental guns.
Argent Peacemaker is easy to use, has nice range, and does decent damage. It's a straightforward, nice gun.
The alchemers have a steeper and higher learning curve than does AP. I mean, they're harder to master, but the final results are better. Nova does straight damage; the other three (Storm, Magma, Hail) sacrifice some damage for status.
You will eventually want to have Polaris, so certainly don't throw that gun away. If you're on a tight budget, then go ahead and get it as your first elemental gun. But, if you are not in such a hurry, then get a different elemental gun for your first one, based on your preference.
more than a damage weapon
As much as I agree that it can cause problems for parties, I still reckon that polaris is the elemental dps gun, knockback or otherwise, making it (at least sometimes) too valuable to not take just because it might annoy a party member.
"You'll be lacking piercing defense, but that is arguably the least important damage defense. "
Explain. Is it solely because of firestorm citadel?
Only threatening piercing attacks in PvE are jelly spikes of various kinds.
Polaris definitely has its tactical uses, due to its knockback. And its damage output isn't bad, especially against crowds, due to its big splash and its shock. But, unless your target is heavy or pinned, its knockback will push the target out of range for your next bullet, decreasing your damage. And its short-range damage is bad. And its bullets are really slow. And alchemer ricochets can do a lot of damage, especially in charge attacks. So I'm less enamored of Polaris' damage output than Darkbrady is.
Derpules summarized piercing succinctly. Piercing is least important because these are the major sources of piercing damage:
* beasts (easiest monster family, since the AI was nerfed)
* slimes (also one of the easier families)
* spikes (if you're laggy, then as big a threat as slimes)
In Royal Jelly Palace there is a fair amount of piercing. But by the time you get to 5-star armor it is no problem, especially because it was nerfed last autumn. In Firestorm Citadel there are just a few beasts and a few slimes, but there are many spikes.
Actually, a 4* pulsar can outdps 5* Storm Driver, even with the unexpanded bullets. The ricochets can increase alch damage but then so can the expanded bullets (which do outdamage the Driver) which hit everything you want. It's honestly not that hard to put enemies in a situation where the knockback won't reduce your damage. The only time I use my Driver anymore is for spamming charges on thick crowds and/or when KB is absolutely not acceptable. Short of that, I just haven't found a situation where Driver can reasonably outdamage/dps even a 4* pulsar.
An alchemer's damage output is highly sensitive to the number of ricochets that land. Against single enemies, in the hands of a good gunner, Storm Driver will frequently out-damage Polaris. Against crowds, Polaris' large splash may give it an edge, as I mentioned above.
(Here is a detailed supporting argument. These data are against vulnerable enemies, at depth 24 (because we don't have complete depth-28 data yet, after the May gun buff). I'm assuming that Storm has the same damage as Hail.
* Polaris regular shot unexpanded: 166
* Polaris regular shot expanded: 198
* Storm regular shot: 166
Polaris has 3 shots per combo, while Storm has only 2. So
* Polaris combo unexpanded: 498
* Polaris combo expanded: 594
* Storm combo: 332
The two guns combo at about the same rate, according to the Lancer Knightz data. So far, Storm is looking weaker. But if just one ricochet hits per shot, then Storm's damage doubles to 664, and it looks great. A similar story applies to charges.)
Anyway, I feel that the differences in these damage numbers are small enough that they are outweighed by other tactical considerations, namely knockback and bullet speed. When it is useful, Polaris' knockback is really useful.
The alch damage doubling requires every ricochet to hit, which is hard/less likely, whereas it's far easier to land an expanded bullet on more than one enemy. Hell, it's possible to have an expanded bullet hit three enemies, tripling the damage while the alchs ricochets miss. Bullet speed is a factor, but the pulsar has three shots and is far more spammable; the first few shots might take an extra second to reach, but after that the onslaught is constant, whereas the Driver moves faster, but is more interrupted by more regular reloads or pause-shooting. I can't give any numbers to that end, but in my experience, the damage still favours the pulsar.
Its definitely harder to test out in groups, but I find that in a thick group it's easier to land multiple hits with an expanded bullet than hoping the ricochet doesn't just fly into a wall.
Mind you! I haven't tested (to any valuable degree) whether the Drivers charge spamming can outdps the polaris, but I feel like it does, with the 4 ricochets and doubled charge damage, as well as increased likelihood of shock. Works well for when you can't move or can afford any risk, but more or less requires a lot of CTR to be spammable at a decent rate, otherwise I reckon the expanded polaris bullets would just hammer them apart faster.
I will admit that this is just from my experience, but I can say that numbers alone can't be the only factor, as things like random ricochet directions and expanded bullets hitting multiple enemies can't be taken into account from stats alone, and ~in my personal experience~, I've just found that my pulsar just kills faster/easier/safer than my Stormy.
Also, please consider the cost in making a polaris... you have to pay waaayyy more than if you go with a gun that actually helps your party, like an alchemer.
Polaris is only good if:
-Your party is focused around a strategy that uses it, such as one that abuses knockback
-You're a bomber, and need a gun to activate switchus and shoot down turrets. Or if you just need something for turrets. And only turrets.
-You're griefing your party
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who said that the Plague Needle isn't as good as the Blitz because "why support when you can just kill faster?" (paraphrasing, ofc), but it's not as if they actually do anything different other than KB. They're both elemental, both cause shock with high frequency and both kill. Just that one knocksback and arguably kills them faster, despite the knockback. You don't have to be KBing every single mob in front of the party to be effectively using the pulsar, and there are times where you may not be with your party; such as Charred Court or any number of FSC rooms. But I did also say I'm aware that there are some occasions when the KB is simply unacceptable, in which case I completely agree with using the Stormy.
Darkbrady, I have already acknowledged many of the points that you raise in your post #16.
In posts #9 and #15, I explicitly say that alchemer damage is highly sensitive to ricochets, and that these ricochets have a steep learning curve. Good gunners can exploit ricochets, but novices find them difficult to use.
In post #15, I explicitly acknowledge that Polaris might out-damage alchemers against crowds. I argue only for alchemers out-damaging Polaris against single enemies, in the hands of a good gunner.
Forgive me, I must not have been clear, but I was debating the opposite. I think that in groups it'd be more of an uncertainty, but that against single enemies, pulsar just trashes alchemer (well, maybe not with charge spamming) but with regular attacks I believe the pulsar just does the job quicker.
What about wolvers? And just because there's few enemy TYPES doesn't mean there's few areas with piercing enemies. I wouldn't say to skip piercing defense entirely.
I think he meant because wolvers are disgustingly easy to dodge now taht they can't track. Even with slow swords or stand-and-shoot it's pretty easy to never get hit by them. Although groups of slimes can be annoying to dodge in smaller areas, but maybe that's just me.
Mind you! I haven't tested (to any valuable degree) whether the Drivers charge spamming can outdps the polaris, but I feel like it does, with the 4 ricochets and doubled charge damage, as well as increased likelihood of shock. Works well for when you can't move or can afford any risk, but more or less requires a lot of CTR to be spammable at a decent rate, otherwise I reckon the expanded polaris bullets would just hammer them apart faster.
I put together a set built around spamming Nova Driver charges shortly after shard bombs got nerfed. I was suprised by how similar the playstyle wound up being to my old RSS, cutting through groups by one-shotting enemies in pairs. I feel it's also a lot easier to land internal ricochets reliably with the charge attacks.
Tried divine veil + skolver coat set, not my taste. You still get hurt on everything, died on pretty much everything. I don't see any significant defense difference with other armor sets. I prefer to just specialize boost from the weapon I bring. It makes the run faster. So, I make and equip mostly wolver/swordie, gunslinger and bomber set for PvE. My divine veil is collecting dust now.
Storm Driver potential damage is still better than polaris. Potential ;p
Well on nova driver that I always use, sometimes 1 charge could lead to 1 charge + 5 bullets damage (2 from splitting and another 3 from richochets) on gun puppy. happening to me occasionally, when swordie still trying to reach gun puppy then I just killed it before they attack the gun puppy. Well, it could also be 1 charge = 0 damage since I suck at aiming.
Also, every gun bullet has small AoE, if you shoot right between 2 monsters each other, it will double the damage. It's also possible with 3 monster near each other (triple damage) but it's hard to find that particular situation.
When you get used to avoid monster attack without knockbacking, you will find knockbacking everything is a bit annoying unless you know you'll do massive damage after sending the monster far away.
Poopsie, Divine Veil with Skolver Coat is not as good for defense as specialized sets, nor as good for offense as specialized sets. The comparison is unfair. Divine Veil with Skolver Coat is for people who own only one helmet and only one suit. My secondary knight uses this and nothing else, and survives everywhere except for Shadow Lairs. (Also, before we were allowed to change equipment on every level, there was more value in having an all-rounder set.)
But you are right that, once you have specialized armor, you will rarely use Divine Veil. My primary knight almost never uses it.
Actually, I would expect divine + skolver to be good in PVP
I use my divine veil in pvp and love it. Shock immunity ftw .-.
"Also, please consider the cost in making a polaris... you have to pay waaayyy more than if you go with a gun that actually helps your party, like an alchemer."
Eh? Why is the Polaris more expensive? IDGI.
"What about wolvers?"
LOL. What about them? :P
"And just because there's few enemy TYPES doesn't mean there's few areas with piercing enemies."
That wasn't my point. My point was that piercing enemies are overwhelmingly unthreatening. Only the projectiles are at all dangerous.
"I wouldn't say to skip piercing defense entirely."
Well, if there was no cost to getting said defence, I'd agree. But I think it's quite reasonable to give up piercing in order to get more defence against a different, more threatening damage type.
Right. It's not that piercing isn't worth defending against at all. It's that, if you can defend against only three damage types, and you have to give up one, then piercing is the one to give up. Obviously you don't give up normal. You don't give up shadow, due to fiends (and kats). You don't give up elemental, due to the preponderance of elemental traps and constructs.
The magic hood leads to some good lines to choose from (chaos, divine, gray feather; wiki them and make your own decision based on their stats) but skelly is a pretty limited and underwhelmiing set.