Spiral Knights - Class suggestions

Class suggestions

51 replies [Last post]

Tue, 10/30/2012 - 23:10

Rezilia

These classes are extensions of the Spiral Knight class. They require completing the new 5-3 quest. Players that are already Knight Elite or above will find that they do not need to complete these quests for further development. However, players on Knight or below WILL need to complete them to up their rank.

The classes are based on extra use of the Shield slot:

Heavy Knights play the same way as Spiral Knights but are able to use their shields to attack. They can press X, hold it, and press Z to attack with the shield by pushing the shield outwards continuously, pushing back the enemy while damaging it. They can also hold Z and press X to form shields around the entire party. Though the other party members can attack, the Heavy Knight using this can't or else the shields will go out.

Crystal Knights can equip Crystal Orbs in the shield slot instead and use magic attacks based on the crystal's element. Pressing X creates a linear beam. Holding X produces an AoE that hits every enemy in sight. Crimsonite: Every enemy is on fire and takes minor DPS for ten seconds. Each DPS causes the enemy to spasm, which would normally happen with Shock. Moonstone: The enemies are frozen for 10 seconds. Valestone: Green spikes poke out of the ground under the enemy and gives them Poison defect. Luminite: Each enemy is hit by a lightning bolt that produces major damage. Dark Matter: Miasma enters the entire area. It not only gives constant minor Shadow DPS but heals the group equal to the damage dealt. Each Orb costs 50 of that specific crystal to make, with 50 more needed for each star upgrade.

Tech Knights are able to dual wield specific weapons. A person can't use a bomb and a sword at once but they can use two guns at once, in other words. The second of the same weapon just goes in the shield slot. The Tech Knight's special ability is an attack speed increase for 30 seconds. It takes 1 minute to cool down. To activate, one needs to hold down X for 10 seconds to double the speed, 15 to triple it, and 20 to quadruple it. The player cannot be interrupted while doing this or else they'll need to start over.

These classes need to be bought with real money to use them:

Beast Knights are able to use Capture Soul by pressing X. This bathes the knight in a green light for 15 seconds with a 45 second cooldown. Every monster hit while the skill is activated will add a number to that monster's Mark. A Mark is a large circular coin that can be wielded in the shield slot. Each monster has its own version and the first Mark of that monster can be obtained by just using the skill on it. Each time it is hit, a number will be added to the Mark. One number will be taken away each time the class's other skill is used. This skill is Morph. It is activated by holding X. Morph turns the character into the monster specific to the Mark they are carrying. They take on their equipment's stats but just use the attacks of that specific monster by pressing and/or holding Z. Holding X will bring them out of that state. The monster's stats are actually added to one's equipment stats, which makes Beast Knights pro when needing to use a specific strategy, damage, and resistance as long as their equipment matches with the stats of the monster on the Mark.

Unlike the other classes, Monk Knights do not use the shield slot as their specialty. Rather, they simply take in the stats of one's current weapon and shield without having the items appear on the character. Instead, they choose to fight with their fists while the other items only count towards their stats. Every attack the Monk Knight uses has a vast amount of Piercing damage added to it. Z is normal punch. Pressing Z rapidly simply gives more punches but there is no downtime between each attack. Holding Z gives a boost to each damage on one's stats for 10 seconds. No cooldown. Pressing X right when one is hit will cause them to parry while knocking the enemy down. Holding X heals one bar of health. Pressing X and Z at the same time knocks the enemy BACK. Holding Z and X will cause the character to jump in the air and off the screen, then back on it in the middle of the area causing a massive AoE that covers half of the area of the...area. This causes extreme piercing damage.

Crimson Knights are based on the Crimson Order. Their skills may need to be tweaked depending what the rest of the Crimson Order can do. For now, these are their skills: Crimson Knights naturally have increased running speed. Pressing X will cause them to disappear except for their shadow. They cannot be harmed this way. It only exists so that the Crimson Knight can see where they are going. They have 5 seconds to move to a different part of the area. Pressing X again will cause them to reappear. If they take longer than 5 seconds, they will reappear wherever they happen to be once 5 seconds have gone by. With the speed they already have, this gives them the appearance of having teleported. Holding down X will make 2 Gun Puppies appear. Their element is based on the weapon the CK is holding. If the weapon has more than one damage type - including Normal - the Gun Puppies that spawn will have a % chance based on how much of each damage the player has. Crimson Knights, unfortunately, cannot use shields.

Do not fret if you want a different class. Class change costs 50,000 Crowns.

Each class has an Archetype that you can achieve with the 9-5 (or extra number of the 10 rank) quests. They all last 60 seconds each and can only be used once per level. They use the C, V, and B keys - each key needs to be held for 5 seconds to use each specific skill.

Paladin: Heavy Knight Upgrade. C heals the group for 4 bars. V increases the group's natural defense for 15 seconds. B lowers the enemy's defense for 15 seconds.

Magus: Crystal Knight Upgrade. C makes every enemy more vulnerable to the equipped crystal's element. V creates an AoE with every enemy having a 50% chance to fall asleep. B causes an AoE called Elemental Storm - it's basically tons of balls of each damage type falling on the whole area.

Assassin: Tech Knight Upgrade. C makes every enemy lose all unique resistances for 10 seconds. V doubles the range of attack. Bombs will have an increased radius and swords will just have a range increase that isn't visible. Guns...have a doubled range increase. Pretty simple. B triples the damage one inflicts for 20 seconds.

Bahamut: Beast Knight Upgrade. C summons a legion of monsters that are the same as the Mark equipped. V turns the enemies in a small radius into the monster of the Mark. B causes the character to turn into a giant form of himself which triples every stat for 20 seconds. This can only be done during Morph. Each of these skills consumes a number on the Mark.

Asura: Monk Knight Upgrade. C takes 3 bars away from one's health but quintuples damage for 30 seconds. However, the player attacks monsters and/or players randomly and thus cannot control their own actions. This is skill is called Berserk for a reason. V gives the group a massive increase in piercing damage for 10 seconds. B causes the player to automatically appear at each and every enemy and knock them away with certain piercing-only damage which also stuns them. This continues until every enemy is hit. No cooldown, so it's great against bosses like Snarbolax.

(???): Crimson Knight Upgrade. This one cannot be done yet as more data on the Crimson Order is needed.

The 5-3 mission is the same for everyone. It is a Solo mission where the only monsters are various types of Mecha Knights. The level is basically a series of bridges. You have to defeat each bridge (with its monsters and traps) for a certain time limit each. The first bridge is 1 minute, the second is 2 minutes, etc. Once you beat the 5th bridge, you'll arrive at an area where the NPC explains that the bridges were magical and easily reconstructed. The mission first began when you were told to go on a rescue mission but the NPC at the end explains that it was just a trial. You must then pick a gate - one for each class. The three payment classes need to be bought to access their gate buttons. The gate you choose will lead you to a boss battle where the boss is a knight of that specific class. Beating them and leaving the area will give you the new class. If you return to this quest later, you will need to give the NPC the 50,000 Crowns if you want the buttons for the other gates to reappear.

The Archetype/Upgrade missions are unique per class. I'm not going to suggest what they contain. Go wild with it if you want to.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 01:16

Forum-Devil

The main reason that i still

The main reason that i still playing this game is because it was "balanced" you know "balanced".
No class but unique style of gaming :) best thing ever..players can use anything they want instead of spamming the forum over and over again to ask for which one is the best class. x)

Adding class will just making thing go worst like paladin in ld,they'll had immortality when they choose to be a guardian..guardian you know,they good decent defense and a healing shield. >.>"

Well,instead of class..try suggestion something else like weapon. Maybe a bow..:D,that aoe enemy within the range hehe that'll rock in ld no doubt.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 02:06

Xxpapaya

The papaya agrees (slightly) with @Nykza

Yeah, I too like the fact that there are no classes. That's what makes this game roll, classes are for Lockdown. Lets talk about the heavy knight firstly.......... If a knight were able to summon a shield that covered the entire party, think about how much easier (when I say "easier", its in a negative way, just saying =) ) all the levels (which are already dead easy) would be? "Charging" would give a very unfair advantage to the heavy knight since they can get to things earlier (lets say a Darkfang Shield that dropped).

Crystal Knights would be quite a popular (and op) class. Those beams you mentioned are like railguns, basically you would dominate everything in the clockworks

A Paladin's healing ability would make EVERYTHING a breeze

A Techknight who has two blitz needles (or any other 5* gun from the autogun line) would kill everything instantly

Beastknights are just plain op making the game unfair

To sum it all up, adding classes would really ruin the flow of the game. Try again with another suggestion =)

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 07:14

Irthan

I think that classes are not

I think that classes are not a terrible idea per se, but I do not like this particular implementation at all.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 07:42

Darkbrady

Classes? In SK? No. This

Classes? In SK? No. This is not a class based game. They introduced classes for LD as a gimmick, to give it something extra to play about with and diversify it, to make it feel more like the PvP of other games, but as a PvE game it suits perfectly with a classless system. There are essentially "classes" in SK anyways, they're just not so set in stone or defined. And the tank class is broken due to non-competitive gear, but otherwise it's all still there. Look at pure support hazers in a team of swordies? No need to put a permanent label on them sayin' "Hazer" when the next floor they might decide to gun it up~

@Papaya:
they can get to things earlier (lets say a Darkfang Shield that dropped

Just to point out that whoever drops are awarded to is predetermined. It doesn't matter who picks it up, it'll go to that person. Even if you go solo after it drops but before anyone picks it up, the item will travel to the instance of whomever it was chosen to be given to, so speed/proximity to an item drop will do nothing to increase your chances of getting it.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 14:47

Rezilia

They're much weaker than you think.

The beams aren't THAT powerful. Making the Party Shield timed and with a cooldown would balance it out. The problem with implementing this and still having it classless is this: OP. As you all said above, this would be fine for PvP but terrible for PvE. I only agree with that if every person was able to use all of these new things just because they changed their equips. Making it so that they are confined to a certain skillset balances everything out. Enemies generally get tougher and more complicated as the game progresses. Should we not add that difficulty to the players? Many of you think this would be far too OP. Not at all. The enemies may have to be - slightly - strengthened because of this, but I put the classes there the way I did to make sure that solo play and party play both would not only be balanced but more in-depth.

Though the first class upgrade - which has very few and weak skills - requires completion of a Rank Mission, that does not mean the Mission is easy. Far from it. It's actually extremely difficult and (despite the difficulty) it MUST be done Solo. The further upgrades are fully end-game. Not to mention that whatever missions they require (which would probably be a vast number of missions for each) would be far more difficult than the first class quests. And - despite this - the second classes are still timed.

I generally made this idea to handle the below:

1) Solo play without dying all the time.

2) Bosses, either with a party or without.

3) $ for the company. It's not like they'll take too many suggestions that don't get them something in return. They are a business, after all.

4) Advanced LD/PvP.

5) Increased player base and participation.

The more material a game has, the more people will want to play it. The sense of achievement and end results of the classes will attract new players and old ones. This idea was not meant to change SK or "make it better" but, rather, to expand upon the features it already contains.

BTW: Don't get me wrong. I actually LOVE criticism and I'm glad you all gave it. I just wanted to clarify ^^

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 14:56

Softhead

-_-

Classes in this game is basically weapons and gear.

Excample, Demo is using bombs and a Spiral Demo.

Speciallist is using Special dmg defence.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 14:59

Rezilia

Classless

Actually, because that's how the game is it's called "classless". I think you mean fighting styles. Part of this idea was that it was an extension of the fighting styles already present in the game. I actually support classless for the most part, like with RuneScape and Mabinogi. I just think that this game would be better with class upgrades than just being fully classless as the more that the team implements, the more chaotic things will become if there's no holding back.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 15:09

Little-Juances

We need to take care of enemies. You can already survive without shielding or any super ability. The game is easy as is.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 15:48

Softhead

BTW:

Devs said no healing items outside of pills and hearts.

Hello:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/341#comment-2018

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 16:39

#10

Rezilia

Items?

Not the same thing as skills. You're talking about the healing abilities, right? They're not items. They're skills. It's completely different.

@Little

Raise the difficulty. Buff the mobs. Lengthen the levels. Pretty easy solution to the game being "easy" isn't it?

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 17:55

#11

Softhead

Paladin, Monk

No healling in general. WHat I mean was gear and outside stuff, INCLUDING "CLASSES". Again, this game is better of without having an expensive, restricting way to switch certain gameplay mechanics.

We REALLY don't need these buffs. Especically if this is already a cakewalk.

And just saying that isn't going to make the game harder. How are we going to do that? Not as easy as you think.

And adding only payable with real money goes off against what's left of their F2P policy. A whole new mechanic, only for pay only? Yeah, that would be fun. Worse that OCH.

This also would be a MASSIVE overhaul on the workings. Why not get gear, whn you can use a character who can use piercing?

Hello Unexplained Dual-Wield Mechanics.

With the use of these, SK now seems more like a typical RPG MNO, rather than a Legend of Zelda kinda game.

Once someone can do those missons, wait, though.

Then, if it's unsufferably difficult for T2(It's in the ranking for 3* HoH), put it for a vanguard. Endgame.

I remember the times where as a 3* bomber noob, I defeated them with ease using status dealing bombs. You would put more challenging enemies. Seriously.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 02:08

#12

Schattentag

*cough*

(further, more constructive response pending)

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 07:05

#13

Rezilia

@ *cough*

I did mine because not only are the PvP classes unbalanced but also to create a reason for the team to make the game more difficult and complex. Great idea, though.

@ Atrum

"And adding only payable with real money goes off against what's left of their F2P policy. A whole new mechanic, only for pay only? Yeah, that would be fun. Worse that OCH."

You do realize that the Cash Shop system - which is already a major part of the game and would incorporate the three Cash classes - does not go against F2P, right? In fact, most games have the Cash Shop system for a reason: Not only does it not go against the idea of F2P, but it's also the ONLY way the company gets any money.

"Legend of Zelda"

I never liked those games for a reason: Too generic. Atleast SK currently has more than one fighting style. I just want to give the fighting styles class advancements and, in doing so, allow them to have their own unique skillsets that thus make them even more important as the game progresses.

"Why not get gear?"

The Monk class doesn't replace gear. None of the classes replace gear. Piercing specialty, Elemental specialty, etc simply add to the stats that your gear gives and vice versa. The classes don't replace gear. In fact, they make carefully choosing your gear even more important.

"Unexplained Dual-Wield Mechanics"

Wait, what's confusing about this? Plus I already explained the actual mechanics of each weapon above.

"Then, if it's unsufferably difficult for T2(It's in the ranking for 3* HoH), put it for a vanguard. Endgame."

...what? Please rephrase that.

"I remember the times where as a 3* bomber noob, I defeated them with ease using status dealing bombs. You would put more challenging enemies. Seriously."

So wait... You want to play a game where you can just ram through anything and thus there's no challenge at all? Games are called such because they can be either won or lost. What's the point of winning something if you can't lose to begin with?

What do you all think of this? I didn't put it above because I thought it was too controversial, but I'd like feedback nonetheless.

Royal Knight: At its gate, it costs 100 of any of the 4 Boss Tokens, even if it's a combination of different tokens. Z-Press is normal attack. X-Press is special attack. Z-Hold costs 100 Crown and summons a +5 Vitapod. It can only be used once per level but can be used each level if there are multiple levels in a mission/dungeon. Multiple uses replaces it with a higher version: +10, +15, etc. X-Hold gives a heat boost for 30 seconds, with 3 minute cooldown.

King: Royal Knight Upgrade: C costs 50% accumulated heat and creates a 30 second time-field - a field that stops time for the enemies in the visible area surrounding the caster. If the caster moves, so will the diameter/area that the time-field affects. V doubles the amount of Crown and Heat attained for the rest of the level for the caster and 3 minutes for the rest of the party. B gives each member of the Party an extra amount of Health equal to how many stars the majority of their equipment is. In other words, Johnny could have 4 3-star equips and 1 5-star equip. He'd get 3 extra Health while Poka (who has all 2* equips) will get 2 extra Health. These work like Vitapods, not heals. Can be stacked each level.

This is meant to be the End-Game class, in case you haven't already figured that out.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 07:44

#14

Softhead

5-3 is in T2 missions, not endgame if you've noticed.

Why would you put this mission is the 3* type of missions? Hence why i would think that!

Cash shops. Lock a lot of content behing P2P. yet this game can give you all(Or most content until OCH is available to all somehow), and you guy CE and such to speed up progress. Why do they get money via other methods( Energy system, packs, Elevator passes)? This game doesn't need a cash shop. This divides the playerbase more. This game is better than some due to the lakc of Pay only chash shops. This would make the game Pay to win.

If tech nights can dual wield, is there a dmg nerf, where does the range end? bullet path? Did you think ofthose?

I was saying such like in it's top head view, style of gameplay. Similar.

My comment as me as a noob. mDid you even comprehend it right? I'm saying that the mecha knights would be easy to beat at that point. I was saying that I beat them easily as a noob, solo. Pick more harder enemies. I mean, a barrage of trojan, coupled with lost souls?

Endgame players, via asking and obsevring, want harder content. Again, this would make the game a cakewalk, Imagine SL or danger missions with these. I'm asking. Why wo

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 13:52

#15

Rezilia

Answers!

"5-3 is in T2 missions, not endgame if you've noticed. Why would you put this mission is the 3* type of missions? Hence why i would think that!"

As for Crown Knight, I did say that at any time the player can go back to the mission, re-complete it, and at the end talk to an NPC. This NPC will open up access to the other gates for 50,000 Crowns. That is, unless a gate required more - like the Cash classes and the Crown Knight class. I said it was endgame for Crown Knight for a reason - you'd literally have to go back and pay the 50,000 Crowns and Boss Tokens once you'd get them, which would be after doing most of the things in the game.

"and you guy CE and such to speed up progress. Why do they get money via other methods( Energy system, packs, Elevator passes)? This game doesn't need a cash shop. This divides the playerbase more. This game is better than some due to the lakc of Pay only chash shops. This would make the game Pay to win."

You seem to think that the Cash classes are more powerful than the others. That's not true at all. The difference is this: The normal classes are basically beat-em-up classes. They don't require any sort of strategy at all. On the other hand, the Cash classes require you to use actually strategy in your gameplay AND give you more strategies to work with. For instance, an Asura can stun a Magus but not if the Magus managed to make him Sleep beforehand. On the same note, Asura's stun and Magus's sleep are both great when going up against multiple enemies. Bahamut's powerful giant form is also pretty easy to hit because of its size, which makes them the perfect targets for Assassins. On that same note, gunslingers won't be able to run very far from Bahamut if in a closed area. They balance each other out, the Cash classes just CREATE more strategy options.

"If tech nights can dual wield, is there a dmg nerf, where does the range end? bullet path? Did you think ofthose?"

There's not a damage nerf. The two weapons give out all their available damage. I already said that the range upgrade on Assassin just doubles the range of attack. It doubles the bullet path, the path of the sword's swing, and the diameter of the bomb. When the range upgrade is not active, the range is NORMAL there's just double the amount of damage (caused by two bullet paths, two bombings, or two sword swings) from the player.

"I was saying such like in it's top head view, style of gameplay. Similar."

...what?

"My comment as me as a noob. mDid you even comprehend it right? I'm saying that the mecha knights would be easy to beat at that point. I was saying that I beat them easily as a noob, solo. Pick more harder enemies. I mean, a barrage of trojan, coupled with lost souls?"

You DO realize that the quest to get the first classes must be done as a normal Spiral Knight and pits you, Solo, against atleast one hundred mecha knights, right? So there's already a mecha knight challenge. And as for them being easy to beat, I designed this so that every Rank Mission and other type of mission after 5-3 would have the enemies more powerful than they are currently. The team would have the buff the monsters. It's really not that hard to do.

"Endgame players, via asking and obsevring, want harder content. Again, this would make the game a cakewalk, Imagine SL or danger missions with these. I'm asking. Why wo"

You're failing to get the point. If this is implemented, the enemies will be BUFFED after first class upgrade. The game won't be a cakewalk, not in the least. Plus, the Crown Knight idea also gives something to endgame players: A CHALLENGE. Getting Crown Knight is like beating the hidden level of the game. Even without that, the quests for the second class upgrade are themselves extremely difficult. You think you'd get Paladin just from beating up a legion of mecha knights? No way! It would be much more difficult.

I'd like to ask you to re-read my posts. I just re-answered everything you asked. I didn't have to do that since you can find all of the answers in my OP. Also, please edit your posts. I'm happy to answer you but I can't read most of what you're saying.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:17

#16

Softhead

I'm asking, what is your ideas to buff them?

I want to ask something. How will monsters be tailored to this new style of gameplay. And I do not want this Devs will think of how to buff it escuse. No. Tell me.

Same thing with the missions. If you make the design, go full ahead.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:18

#17

Draycos

If anything, make this a separate mode of play with restricted item usage, PvP or PvE, whatever. If it's going to overwrite the regular play... just no.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:26

#18

Rezilia

"I want to ask something. How

"I want to ask something. How will monsters be tailored to this new style of gameplay. And I do not want this Devs will think of how to buff it escuse. No. Tell me."

As I said before, they'll just double (or times them by 2.5) their stats aka their resistances and damages. It's actually really simple and easy to do.

"If anything, make this a separate mode of play with restricted item usage, PvP or PvE, whatever. If it's going to overwrite the regular play... just no."

I don't get it. Why is everyone so against this? This would make the game more challenging, fun, and inspire better group play as well as solving EVERY issue with Soloing. Have someone ditch you because their energy is too low? Who cares? You can Solo the level from now on. I didn't design this to make gameplay harder or easier, I did it to cater to every player and help them solve their issues in the game as long as they could use strategy. I did this to implement more strategy options in the game. Isn't that a GOOD thing?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:26

#19

Softhead

Or seperate it into gear types.

Since this is an overhaul of the entire fighting and gear system, explain how this will affect PvE and PvP.

Imagine Normal Players vs a team of Class Players. Hence why I say, no cash shop.

And the way you descibe how thye are in this Rock, Paper Scissors type. i was asking in FRIGGIN normal PvE terms and in Lockdown. You didn't explain how they are used in PvP. There are Classes in Lockdown, how would they work in there? is there a Class PvP only minigame.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:40

#20

Rezilia

*PvE monsters will be buffed

*PvE monsters will be buffed to make up for the class upgrades. In return, the classes will allow a more unique form of gameplay against monsters and other players.

*Lockdown may still have its own classes or else those classes may be taken away and the class upgrades allowed. Players' choice.

*PvP will automatically sort players based on what level of upgrade they have: Spiral, First Class, Second Class. Thus, a Spiral can't fight a Monk nor can a Paladin fight a simple Crystal.

*It's not a complete overhaul of the system, it just expands upon it. It doesn't replace it.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:44

#21

Luguiru

"they'll just double (or times them by 2.5) their stats aka their resistances and damages."

That is fake difficulty. All it does is make combat last a little longer, but in the end it contributes nothing to making them more difficult to fight. Imagine running a butcher and you suddenly adapted to a Russian accent. You get two customers, Alpha and Beta. Alpha wants a hundred cuts of beef. Sure, it would eventually make your arms sore from doing the same thing constantly, but it would just be the same simple task you can do while blindfolded and backwards. Beta, on the other hand, wants a fully functional microwave made out of ham. Pretending that would be possible, which customer is asking a more difficult task?

Not going to comment on all the generic classes.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:51

#22

Klipik

@ Royal Knight/King:

Paying to use abilities? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE NO NO NO. Besides being massively P2P-only, and being OP making them therefore P2W, what happens if you run out of crowns mid-mission? also please keep in mind not everyone uses keyboard controls.

Also: Royal Knight/King + alot of crowns + FSC heart regenerators + time = INFINITE HEALTH. INFINITE. does this not seem imbalanced just a litle bit to you? and if you respond with "its supposed to be imbalanced, it's and endgame class", I will... do something bad. All endgame weapons/armors/classes shouls be sidegrades of each other, unless you want everyone in haven to look the same.

I don't have the time right now to point out all my other complaints. For now, I'll just say:

No Thanks, and please come back with a better idea that doesn't completely redesign and destroy one of the only aspects of a game that keeps it from being a clone of every other MMORPG in existence. adding Quests was close enough, thanks.

<(^_^)>

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 14:51

#23

Softhead

What. The. Heck.

"I don't get it. Why is everyone so against this? This would make the game more challenging, fun, and inspire better group play as well as solving EVERY issue with Soloing. Have someone ditch you because their energy is too low? Who cares? You can Solo the level from now on. I didn't design this to make gameplay harder or easier, I did it to cater to every player and help them solve their issues in the game as long as they could use strategy. I did this to implement more strategy options in the game. Isn't that a GOOD thing?"

This game is based on team work. Did most of the hints fly past you? I would think that these would add more ideas to the core, TEAMWORK. Then my other gripes are there.

"As I said before, they'll just double (or times them by 2.5) their stats aka their resistances and damages. It's actually really simple and easy to do."

Pah. That does nothing. One lenghtens the time to kill them, but does no harder difficulty.Think about the game before the great wolver nerf(And others).

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:07

#24

Klipik

@atrum

What was that "Great Wolver Nerf" anyways? I was either Tier 1, or inactive during that time so i must have missed it. I also didn't really notice the Zombie and Retrode nerf, but I kinda remember being happy that maybe i could get in a hit before a Retrode interrupted me. That might have been me sucking though. :P

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:12

#25

Rezilia

"Paying to use abilities? NO

"Paying to use abilities? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE NO NO NO. Besides being massively P2P-only, and being OP making them therefore P2W, what happens if you run out of crowns mid-mission? also please keep in mind not everyone uses keyboard controls."

Very true, I didn't really think about the effect on Mouse users. Then again, you don't really use any extra buttons until the second class upgrade, which is endgame.

P2P refers to paying with real money. The Royal Knight isn't a Cash class, it's based on in-game items. Plus only three of the classes are P2P, and they aren't any stronger than the other classes. They're just flashier and provide better looking skills. A Heavy Knight can still beat a Crown Knight if they activate their Shield right before time stops. That's just one example and the Heavy Knight class is completely F2P.

"Royal Knight/King + alot of crowns + FSC heart regenerators + time = INFINITE HEALTH. INFINITE. does this not seem imbalanced just a litle bit to you? and if you respond with "its supposed to be imbalanced, it's and endgame class", I will... do something bad. All endgame weapons/armors/classes shouls be sidegrades of each other, unless you want everyone in haven to look the same."

Can you really imagine anyone being able to have enough Crowns to spam the skills after doing everything to attain that class? I can, but it's a very, very low possibility. It requires a massive amount of farming and grinding. Most players would give up before even getting all of the Boss Tokens. Plus, let's not forget that currently it IS possible to get a 30+ Vitapod. That's already infinite in the idea that you'd rarely, if ever, die. My idea actually gives you less Health than that Vitapod does.

"No Thanks, and please come back with a better idea that doesn't completely redesign and destroy one of the only aspects of a game that keeps it from being a clone of every other MMORPG in existence. adding Quests was close enough, thanks."

So...you DON'T want storylines in your games? Or rather, you'd prefer a game filled only with dungeons or PvP? That's what you're saying by eliminating Quests. Doing this does not make it a clone of every other MMORPG. Have you even payed attention to the gameplay of Spiral Knights? Even if we do add these classes, the gameplay will still be unlike any other MMO.

"This game is based on team work. Did most of the hints fly past you? I would think that these would add more ideas to the core, TEAMWORK. Then my other gripes are there."

As I JUST said above, my idea actually makes teamwork better and more important. Even though you CAN Solo with these classes, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be better for you to work in a team nor does it mean that Soloing would be instantaneous. You'll just die less because you have more options.

"That is fake difficulty. All it does is make combat last a little longer, but in the end it contributes nothing to making them more difficult to fight."

So you're saying that giving something that specializes in a certain amount of damage a huge increase in that damage won't make it easier for them to KO you in one shot? Are you serious? What do you have, like, 10 Mist Tanks whenever you enter a level? I need to party with you someday if that's the case!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:14

#26

Softhead

In jan,

Wolvers lost their auto tracking.

Retrodes beam chargeup lenghtened and lost their tracking with their swipes.

Zombies with the swipes as well.

Ask me, do you barely get hit in wolver dens? Even health or resistance does nothing with these hapless mammals. They just aim in a straight line. Once your out they can't do nothing. Back then, with alphas, even if you run, dodge, if youre too close in ANY direction they would do a [insert degree] turn and bite. If I shielded in T2, the last hit would break it. I couldn't outrun them. I either had to keep distance, or kill them first.

We don't need classes for stories. Danger missions, Arcade stratum with bosses and missions in general do that easier. No point of adding them for that.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:52

#27

Softhead

"As I JUST said above, my

"As I JUST said above, my idea actually makes teamwork better and more important. Even though you CAN Solo with these classes, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be better for you to work in a team nor does it mean that Soloing would be instantaneous. You'll just die less because you have more options."

Makes the game more easier. More options= adding healing, buffs and different animations of attacking. Hey, we have pills which we have to work hard for, same with vitas in level if no basil, not to magicly spawn.

It's also contradictory. You said you don't need players yo solo as you can do it yourself. Which you already can, and is simply no point of adding this for that as it makes things easier.

And engame players can have a lot of money. Trust me on that. Do you think everyone is poor enough? No. Merchants, CE sellers and some others can be loaded with crowns. People who grind FSC and other bosses bcause of the market would be loaded.

We don't know much about the knights as you don't explain anything about them counter effecting other classes.

Yet most items can be gotten by all players. OCH is the exception, yet there are plans. Goes agaisnts the system of the game.

What do you mean by player's choice. BTW, sheild slots are replaced with Class shields, replacing shields and classes.

Very true, I didn't really think about the effect on Mouse users. Then again, you don't really use any extra buttons until the second class upgrade, which is endgame.

Which will soon become not endgame as there would be more boss stratums and content.

"P2P refers to paying with real money. The Royal Knight isn't a Cash class, it's based on in-game items. Plus only three of the classes are P2P, and they aren't any stronger than the other classes. They're just flashier and provide better looking skills. A Heavy Knight can still beat a Crown Knight if they activate their Shield right before time stops. That's just one example and the Heavy Knight class is completely F2P."

Already posted this, but in simple wording, you never frigging explain it, also, Most gear can be gotten. Want to forget this with this cash shop, which is not unique and is a horrible addition to most MNOs?

"So...you DON'T want storylines in your games? Or rather, you'd prefer a game filled only with dungeons or PvP? That's what you're saying by eliminating Quests. Doing this does not make it a clone of every other MMORPG. Have you even payed attention to the gameplay of Spiral Knights? Even if we do add these classes, the gameplay will still be unlike any other MMO."

Missions, Arcade, NPCs in lvs and Towns, Bosses. All do that. how would a fighting mechanic do something akin? I would get more from exploring a burning ruin from a cursed world than a tutorial mission for a class.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:25

#28

Klipik

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"Very true, I didn't really think about the effect on Mouse users. Then again, you don't really use any extra buttons until the second class upgrade, which is endgame."
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–Theoretically having keyboard controls right next to "z" and "x" makes sense, I don't think anyone uses the mouse exclusively unless they have more than 3 buttons on it. The other main problem I forgot to mention with that was 360 gamepad users. you can't add extra buttons on those.
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"P2P refers to paying with real money. The Royal Knight isn't a Cash class, it's based on in-game items. Plus only three of the classes are P2P, and they aren't any stronger than the other classes. They're just flashier and provide better looking skills. A Heavy Knight can still beat a Crown Knight if they activate their Shield right before time stops. That's just one example and the Heavy Knight class is completely F2P."
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–Crown Knight's abilities cost crowns to use. crowns can be traded with CE, and CE can be purchased. Therefore a P2P player can gain an unfair advantage by simply buying more in-game money and using it to fuel their abilities.
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"Can you really imagine anyone being able to have enough Crowns to spam the skills after doing everything to attain that class? I can, but it's a very, very low possibility. It requires a massive amount of farming and grinding. Most players would give up before even getting all of the Boss Tokens. Plus, let's not forget that currently it IS possible to get a 30+ Vitapod. That's already infinite in the idea that you'd rarely, if ever, die. My idea actually gives you less Health than that Vitapod does."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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-"Can you really imagine anyone being able to have enough Crowns to spam the skills after doing everything to attain that class? I can, but it's a very, very low possibility."
–As i said before, buying CE and converting it into CR makes it possible to have infinite money.

-"Most players would give up before even getting all of the Boss Tokens."
–Sorry what? I'm not even tier 3 cleared yet and I have over 100 Jelly Gems. You don't think that people who grind FSC or KoA 24/7 have well over 100 Almarian Seals?

-"My idea actually gives you less Health than that Vitapod does."
–Yet you say repeating the ability on the Crown Knight gives higher and higher Vitapods each time, and the Royal Knight's ability stacks infinitely, giving a 5* player 5 extra HP every time.
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So...you DON'T want storylines in your games? Or rather, you'd prefer a game filled only with dungeons or PvP? That's what you're saying by eliminating Quests. Doing this does not make it a clone of every other MMORPG. Have you even payed attention to the gameplay of Spiral Knights? Even if we do add these classes, the gameplay will still be unlike any other MMO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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–I never said i wanted to remove the missions. All I said was they made it more similar to other MMO's. Sorry if I sounded as if I wanted them to be removed.

-"Even if we do add these classes, the gameplay will still be unlike any other MMO."
–The problem is, that is not enough to make it different enough to attract players. Have you ever heard of TERA Online? It's an action-MMORPG that came out in May of 2012. It had a revolutionary new combat system, that was similar to SK's but in full 3D instead of isometric view. You needed to aim sword strikes, abilities, and even arrow shots, at the same time as dodging enemies attacks. Completely different from the traditional WoW-style gameplay of "spam 3, cast fireball, do dmg".

And it was praised for this system.

Yet, it was not very successful for two reasons:
-Controversial character design
and:
THE GRIND.

Tera had a terrible quest system. It was exactly the same as WoW's, complete with the NPC's with "!"'s over their heads. Everyone who transferred over from SW:TOR, WoW, Rift, or any other MMORPG was already tired of the system and, once they got over the new combat system, got quickly fed up with the incredibly repetitive leveling and quest system and promptly left. SK needs to be different in more than one way to remain successful.
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So you're saying that giving something that specializes in a certain amount of damage a huge increase in that damage won't make it easier for them to KO you in one shot? Are you serious? What do you have, like, 10 Mist Tanks whenever you enter a level? I need to party with you someday if that's the case!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From Atrumvindex: "Ask me, do you barely get hit in wolver dens? Even health or resistance does nothing with these hapless mammals. They just aim in a straight line. Once your out they can't do nothing. Back then, with alphas, even if you run, dodge, if youre too close in ANY direction they would do a [insert degree] turn and bite. If I shielded in T2, the last hit would break it. I couldn't outrun them. I either had to keep distance, or kill them first."

–Giving enemies more HP, more damage, more resistance to damage, or even better damage avoidance, does nothing if the enemy's ATTACK MECHANICS are so easy to avoid that you never give it a chance to attack in the first place. I bet you there are many experienced T3 players who could kill a T3 alpha wolver with full proto gear, given the time.

<(^_^)>

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 11:44

#29

Softhead

Also.

"use two guns at once, in other words. The second of the same weapon just goes in the shield slot."

Does that explain the mechanics? Look up other dual wield mechanics.

And wait,

"I generally made this idea to handle the below:

1) Solo play without dying all the time.

2) Bosses, either with a party or without."

Hey, make the game easier. You die solo, makes go to a party more. There are several benefits with party play that is overrided with this. Example, Members can rez with hearts. More energy to go around, varied ranged of weapons.

V creates an AoE with every enemy having a 50% chance to fall asleep.

Sleep is OP.

Hence why there are no slooms, weapons, UVs and most other benefits all, if not most, statuses can(Removed a log time ago). Why Vials aren't, I do not know. they are removing sleep slowly (Shrine of Slumber never made it to Open release, Sleep uvs were removed summer last year, slooms recently this year), so they may finish buisness for Rebalence(Reason for removal), but looking at their track record for re adding unbalenced stuff is faulty at best(Where's tordy, or shrine of slumber? Green Jelly Giant?), I wouldn't put people's hopes up.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:07

#30

Rezilia

Thanks for the feedback.

Atrum, thanks for typing everything without grammar/spelling errors this time.

I'd like to ask you all: What really bugs you, the actual content I suggested or the fact that they are classes? If I made everything in this idea available to everyone, would you support it? Unfortunately, I often find that people hate an idea just because it SOUNDS like one that's been done before, even if the implementation is completely different. As you all said, you like the fact that we have Missions rather than ! Quests. But the thing is...missions and quests are the exact same thing. And while ! games are open world, Spiral Knights simply has a few hub towns and everything else is dungeon, dungeon, dungeon, dungeon, dungeon... It's just like a downgraded Vindictus. Despite this, it has an amount of ease that other games don't have. Not in the sense of it being EASY but in the sense of it being SMOOTH. The goal of the game is pretty simple: Upgrade your gear, hit, block, and turn in your quest. There's really nothing else.

I came up with these ideas because they will improve gameplay in concerns with fighting. Once again, it won't make things easier - it'll be equal to if you were fighting with a Spiral Knight until you get to Second Upgrade. It's just an improvement to STRATEGY. That's it. That's all. What if I made it so that every person could earn Archetypes - things they could equip to change their skillset to that of the classes but they could unequip it and equip another? Would you support it then? This idea isn't overpowered, it just seems that way because there's so much content.

What if I changed everything to be weaker than it currently is? What if I made the 5+ a 3+ instead? Do realize that skills like that can only be used once per level and MOST missions have only 2 or 3 levels. You'd get 15+ or 9+ max by the time you got to the boss. Does that still seem overpowered when someone is forced to fight the boss on their own? I don't know about you guys, but I literally have to wait FOREVER to get a party for a dungeon. If not, I have to Solo them which makes me die all of the time. I then face enemies that - despite them having linear attacks - are in huge groups. That makes sure that atleast two of them can hit me every few seconds with their special. If this game had more players then, perhaps, we wouldn't have to worry about Solo play since there would always be someone to party with. However, the game just isn't that popular anymore. There's never anyone to team up with.

"Sorry what? I'm not even tier 3 cleared yet and I have over 100 Jelly Gems. You don't think that people who grind FSC or KoA 24/7 have well over 100 Almarian Seals?"

Then we just have to increase the number required. Simple.

"The other main problem I forgot to mention with that was 360 gamepad users. you can't add extra buttons on those."

You mean the 360 controller? It has 6 buttons in total that can be used for attacks. Like with a keyboard, hold down one of the buttons to do X-Hold or Z-Hold. You then have 4 buttons left and you only need 3.

"I would get more from exploring a burning ruin from a cursed world than a tutorial mission for a class."

Burning Ruin... Vindictus, Forsaken World, Secret World, this MMO, that MMO, random RPG Fantasy, Shooter, or otherwise... Yeah. I can see how a burning ruin is unique.

"lready posted this, but in simple wording, you never frigging explain it, also, Most gear can be gotten. Want to forget this with this cash shop, which is not unique and is a horrible addition to most MNOs?"

So you don't like Cash Shop because it isn't unique? LOL Okay then, I'd like to see you suggest something else that gets the team money other than making the game P2P, B2P, or making them ask for donations. I'm serious. Suggest something. I'm waiting.

And I did explain it. I've already explained some of the different mechanics. Do you literally want me to list every single possible thing that can be done by one class to beat another class or not be beat by it? All you need is a little bit of... I M A G I N A T I O N :D ...to figure out how balanced these classes are.

"Wolvers lost their auto tracking.

Retrodes beam chargeup lenghtened and lost their tracking with their swipes.

Zombies with the swipes as well.

We don't need classes for stories. Danger missions, Arcade stratum with bosses and missions in general do that easier. No point of adding them for that."

I didn't make the classes for story purposes. I made them to help out Solo players and to add more fun/content to team players. And yes, I still die all the time because they come in PACKS and I have to Solo them. By your definition, it seems like a nerf was necessary. Wolvers could not only break your shields, but literally hunt you down and eat you and you could do nothing about it? Retrodes were designed so that you could never run past them and thus had to take in all of the damage? Are you serious? How are people supposed to Rush and not die all of the time or even play a level normally without dying all of the time if those enemies have god-mode activated?

"And engame players can have a lot of money."

Which is why I said it was an endgame class.

"What do you mean by player's choice. BTW, sheild slots are replaced with Class shields, replacing shields and classes."

Heavy Knight is basically the same as Spiral Knight - it still has the shield. If you love shields so much, just pick Heavy Knight. What's the problem here? Is there anything else you can equip in the shield slot that I'm not aware of other than shields?

"People who grind FSC and other bosses bcause of the market would be loaded."

And yet they grinded, mastered the market, and everything else - it's all merit. It's all hard work. So what if they're loaded? They earned it.

"P2W"

Okay, you know what? I'm sick and tired of everyone hating the idea that you can pay for Crowns, Gear, or anything else to help you along. Unless someone won the lottery or else their parents are paying for them, they are most likely spending most of their life WORKING in a JOB to get that money. They earned that money. And because of the amount of time that they have to spend getting the money, they have little to no time to play the game. So then why shouldn't they get some aid from the cash that they worked hard for? I'm a college student. Do you really think I have money to spend on the Cash Shop? NO! But I won't act like a middle schooler and huff and puff with jealousy just because other people have money and I don't. If they earned that money - by sweat, luck, or even sucking up - then so be it. Just because I don't have money to power myself up, that doesn't mean I should completely destroy the institute of the idea. And even so, as I said before - my Cash ideas are not OP. They are equal and fair when compared to the free options. They're just flashier. That's all.

If anyone else wishes to reply, please give exact details as to what should be altered so that this idea would be more fair. Don't just complain or deny the idea. Whether or not it's implemented depends upon the Game Staff. If this DID happen to be implemented, what would you like to see different? Please comment like that and please, PLEASE read EVERYTHING in EVERY post of this thread before you post. Thank you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:09

#31

Luguiru

What the flying buttresses

"my idea actually makes teamwork better and more important"

"I generally made this idea to handle the below:

Solo play without dying all the time

Bosses, either with a party or without."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:18

#32

Soarel

My opinion on this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pspna5GZwBk&feature=fvwrel

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:34

#33

Softhead

What's wrong with dungeons?

Seriously.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:49

#34

Rezilia

@Soarel

And yet no one was with him.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:14

#35

Softhead

I concour with Soarel.

^_^

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:03

#36

Rezilia

Once again.

Please do not comment unless you have something better to say than "this sucks". Thank you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:03

#37

Rezilia

Once again.

Please do not comment unless you have something better to say than "this sucks". Thank you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:03

#38

Rezilia

Once again.

Please do not comment unless you have something better to say than "this sucks". Thank you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:03

#39

Rezilia

Once again.

Please do not comment unless you have something better to say than "this sucks". Thank you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:12

#40

Little-Juances

"this sucks dont do it" is not constructive, but still a valid "suggestion" nonetheless.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:24

#41

Softhead

And isn't "This sucks Don't do it"

Basically in almost every single post here?

And Isn't "This sucks Don't do it"

Basicallt in almost every single post here?

And Isn't "This sucks Don't do it"

Basicallt in almost every single post here?

And Isn't "This sucks Don't do it"

Basicallt in almost every single post here?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:38

#42

Rezilia

Is it just me or are the forums bugging out?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:44

#43

Softhead

ever heard of double posting?

-_-

That's what happened to only you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:22

#44

Xxpapaya

The papaya replies

Well, even if you make the beam weaker and add a cooldown. You could still tear through a lot of things easily, and the classes which you have to purchase will be a bit unfair on the people who can't purchase. One thing I like about Spiral Knights is the fact that it doesn't have classes, in a way we are all equal. =)

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 21:23

#45

Klipik

Maybe

these could be much more subtle, and then added in at the very late endgame and maybe added to T4+.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 06:02

#46

The-Critic

No.

Class suggestions. Stopped reading here.

Most RPG games have a class system, which makes the whole game greatly unbalanced. We already have tons of weapons that alter the playing style.

Using the Hatchet in the beginning can give you a paladin game style.
Getting a Robo Wrecker, Beast Basher, Slime Smasher can give you a resistance type of game style.
Plus, there's also guns and bombs that can make you a gunner and a bomber.

This has been suggested a thousand times, and I don't think I'm idiomatically expressing myself.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:40

#47

Rezilia

Seriously?

"Class suggestions. Stopped reading here."

And THAT is why this suggestion doesn't have any supporters. Critics can read but optimists can't? Really?

Do note that SK is not a game you can put "classes" in in which the "classes" will be, in any way, shape, or form, like classes in other RPGs. You'd literally have to rework the entire game. That's why my classes are NOT in the LEAST like those of other games. This is why you should read about them. They are based completely off of features the game already has. They DO NOT change the game. Like T4+ mentioned above, they just add to the current gameplay. That's all. (Then again, T4+ changes more than my suggestion does.)

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:46

#48

Softhead

Not really.

The game doesn't give you the ability to convert currency into dungeon gear in the middle of a delve.

Nor dual wield your current guns.

Or transform into clockwork creatures.

Or buff the players without dungeon gear(Pills).

And how does using different gear not the same as your class.

Their both fighting styles. Their both use different strategies. They both affect how well you survive(Skill also comes into this).

Seerusly.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:56

#49

Luguiru

Are you related to Mitt Romney or something

"SK is not a game you can put "classes" in in which the "classes" will be, in any way, shape, or form, like classes in other RPGs. You'd literally have to rework the entire game. That's why my classes are NOT in the LEAST like those of other games. "

"Heavy
use their shields to attack"

"Crystal
use magic attacks"

"Tech Knights are able to dual wield"

"Monk
fight with their fists"

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:11

#50

The-Critic

Didn't realize this.

You suggested magic? Dual Wielding? Punching? You suggested about everything that has been suggested countless times.

Critics can read but optimists can't? Really?
What?

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