Spiral Knights - Class Missions (Scenarios Needed)

Class Missions (Scenarios Needed)

68 replies [Last post]

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 18:30

Schattentag

Table of Contents

- General Information

-> What are Class Missions?
-> How would it work?
-> Concept Art
-> Pros
-> Cons

- Class Specificaions

-> Striker
-> Spiral Guardian
-> Recon Specialist

- Scenario Ideas

-> Defend the Base!
-> Clutches of Ironclaw
-> Coliseum Coup
-> The Betrayers
-> Ninja V Spy

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General Information
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=> What are Class Missions?
Class Missions would essentially let players use Lockdown equipment against enemies.
Class Missions would be a new type of missions in the Mission System, like Rank, Prestige, and Expansion Missions. Just like Rank Missions and Expansion Missions, Class Missions would feature unique scenarios that reveal more about Cradle and its inhabitants.

=> How would it work?

Team-style Missions (original concept): These missions would encourage players to run with a relatively full party. Each member of the party would choose a different class (the fourth member would choose a duplicate class). Party members would have to delegate different tasks to different people depending on their classes, and each member would be an integral part of a balanced team. Scenarios would involve heavy teamwork in fighting and possibly multiplayer puzzles (using Split Party Buttons - see below).
Single-class Missions: These missions would require that all members use the same class. Scenarios would cater to the abilities and potential roles of the required class. (Suggested by Derpdederpderp | Supported by me, Atrumvindex)
Split Party Buttons: These buttons would function similarly to existing party buttons, but would require that each living member of the party is standing on a different button. They would force party members to split off into different parts of a level. In Class Missions, these would be used to ensure that parties have a mix of different equipment classes. The buttons would lead into 3 passages, each containing a different Lockdown equipment pedestal, where players swap out their shield with their chosen class gear. In the case of a 4-person party, a fourth passage would contain all 3 class pedestals.

=> Concept Art

Class Missions interface (Made by me)

=> Pros & Supporting Data

Class Missions would offer a new style of PvE play that would encourage party members to work together as part of a team
Lockdown equipment already exists, so adding it to this style of PvE would simply be a matter of modification, not creation
The ability to use Lockdown equipment in PvE would allow newer players to practice using the classes in a more friendly environment. On the flip-side, veteran players could use the equipment bonuses to jump-start training for different PvE styles (a trained bomber could learn how to use swords by using the Strike Booster)
Lockdown classes look and sound really cool, so using them in PvE would also be really cool. Support for Lockdown-style accessories here.
Interestingly enough, descriptions of the Alpha Squad members seem to match them to these classes. According to Kora in "The Pioneers" mission, Euclid seems to match the profile of a Striker, Grantz is explicitly stated to be a Guardian, and Parma a Recon Specialist. The fourth member, Rulen, seems to be a jack of all trades - he was a tactician who could help perform part of the duties for each class. Sounds a lot like a 4-person Class Mission, right?

=> Cons

Modifying enemies and Lockdown equipment could get complicated (most relevant to Recon Cloak)
Making enough scenarios may prove difficult (post your ideas here!)

Equipment: Strike Booster
Possible Modifications:

Frontal Shield: A shield that protects only the front side of a Striker, and is activated when the Strike Booster is activated. Would be useful for solo missions or at times when the party's Guardian Shield is down. (Suggested by Sev)
Changes in Booster duration and recharge rate (Suggested by Sev)
Remove health penalty (Suggested by Diamondshreddie | Supported by me)

Potential Roles:

Main damage dealer in a party, making use of sword bonuses
Eliminate enemies to clear a path for the party
Work together with Recon Specialists to quickly and efficiently take down enemies
Utilize speed to move past traps/enemies and hit switches

Spiral Guardian

Equipment: Guardian Shield
Possible Modifications:

Remove health bonuses (Suggested by Juances | Supported by me, Diamondshreddie)
Remove shield's healing ability (Suggested by Juances | Supported by...everyone?)
Change shield's defense levels (Suggested by Juances | Supported by Sev?)

Potential Roles:

Main source of defense for the party, taking all the hits when damage is dealt within shield boundaries
Escort and protect NPC's
Tank through traps/enemies and hit switches

Recon Specialist

Equipment: Recon Cloak
Possible Modifications:

Remove health bonuses (Suggested by Diamondshreddie | Supported by me)
Changes in cloak time and recovery rate (Suggested by me)
Recon Mark causes enemies to search for player if they aren't already focused on someone else (Suggested by me)
Death Mark duration shortened (Suggested by me | Supported by Sev)
Death Mark causes enemies to be weak to all damage types (piercing, shadow, elemental) and/or removes shields (Suggested by me)
Death Mark causes enemies to take slightly increased damage (Suggested by Sev)

Potential Roles:

Support member, possibly making use of crowd-control bombing techniques
"Soften" enemies to make them easier to defeat
Work together with Strikers to quickly and efficiently take down enemies
Slip past enemies undetected, or scout ahead to let party know what to expect

Description: A Geo Knight research team and their Recon escort were investigating [monster type here], but now they've found themselves surrounded by angry monsters. They've been able to set up some temporary gates to keep the monsters out, but they still have research to conduct and they can't keep splitting their attention between gate maintenance and science. Find a squad of capable knights and help the Geo Knights out!

More info:

The Geo Knight team would have a finite amount of health, and they would have to remain alive for the mission to be completed.
The research site would probably be in the middle of an extremely large, rectangular area with the entrance on the south side, and the exit north. The exit will just lead to the elevator.
Research site itself would be a smaller rectangle surrounded by gates that can be closed by switches. The switches would reset over time, letting monsters in to attack the Geo Knights.
Monsters will spawn infinitely while the Recon works to open up the exit to the elevator. Talking to the Recon can provide some sense of how close the party is to completing the mission (how close he is to opening the exit).
To prevent the Geo Knight team from getting hurt, the party would have to split roles very efficiently. Strikers would control the map as they do in Lockdown, taking out enemies and making sure the switches stay activated. Recon would probably be forced to take the role of crowd control using bombs. Guardian would protect the Geo team and the party. For Guardian, staying near the Geo team could be a good idea, letting Strikers know when the gates are down.

Clutches of Ironclaw (Team-style Mission) (Suggested by me)

Description: One of our Recons was exploring a top-secret sector of the Ironclaw Munitions Factory, but he was captured by the construct sentinels that lurk within. Gather a squad of elite knights and take up special equipment to escort him out and destroy the facility!

More info:

Takes place in IMF, so expect lots of missiles, shock traps, and other environmental hazards
The trapped Recon would have no weapons or shields, and would have a finite amount of health. He could appear in the party list so his health could be displayed
Upon rescuing said Recon, the party could fight a stronger version of the Mecha knight production center (like in the "Toy Soldiers" mission)
Upon destroying the production center, a self-destruct sequence would start. The party must escape IMF with the Recon before the timer runs out in order to complete the mission. The timer would be long enough to allow for a variety of equipment to be viable for completing the mission, but short enough to encourage Recon/Striker teamwork to clear out enemies

Coliseum Coup (Team-style Mission) (Suggested by me)

Description: King Krogmo recently released an announcement about another wily way of officiating our objectives - Knightdown. Knightdown makes monsters into indisputably powerful people - their task to take out our knights. Knights, we wonder if it's feasible for an anti-coliseum coup to take place. Put together three teammates and abolish this travesty!

More info:

Translation: Krogmo has a new game - Knightdown. In Knightdown, monsters attack knights. Spiral HQ isn't particularly fond of this new game and want you to go to the Coliseum and show Krogmo who's boss by taking care of all the monsters he sends your way.
This is essentially an endurance mission.
The first level would just be a lobby level where the party would take up their Lockdown gear and enter the Coliseum after plowing through a few devilites or something.
The second would be the Coliseum, a really big circular area surrounded by non-aggressive monsters (like the ones found in the middle of some scenario rooms). In the middle of the room there would be a party button that would spawn several waves of monsters. At first they would be fairly easy mobs like jelly cubes and zombies, but would get more difficult, like multiple trojans at once.
The last level would be walking back OUT of the Coliseum after defeating Krogmo's minions. This time around, the fans round the sides of the Coliseum area would pour out of the stands and attack the party for ruining their fun.

The Betrayers (Team vs Single undecided) (Suggested by Just-Crusising & Derpdederpderp | Supported by me)
Note: this was adapted from this thread by Just-Crusising, so for more complete details, please visit. Thanks for letting me incorporate this!

Description: Not everyone thinks the same about everything and even though most of knights want to get out from Cradle alive, there are few those believe otherwise. Three of these decided to turn their backs to the Spiral Order and try to stop all efforts to reach the core and obtain its power. Even though it makes us sad to strike down our own knights, the orders from Spiral HQ are clear. Go the base of The Betrayers and finish them.

More info:

Derpdederpderp's original suggestion in this thread was to have a team of Strikers fight a corrupt version of the Alpha Squad. I thought it would be more fitting if a mixed party went to fight, since the Alpha Squad itself seems to be a mixed party
My thinking is that Just-Crusising's boss profiles can sort of fit the profiles of a mixed Class Mission party, just like the Alpha Squad. Shiram would definitely be the Guardian for the team. Gon and Ashura might just be two Strikers, or one could be the enemy equivalent of a Recon (it's hard to say). Because they sort of fit into these classes I think it's appropriate that they are given stats that are on par with their respective classes.
Changes to Shiram: Let the shield regenerate faster. 20 seconds is far too long, especially with the possibility of extra damage due to death marks and Striker bonuses. Again, it would probably be about the same as a Guardian Shield.
Changes to Ashura: I'm thinking Ashura might actually fit the role of Recon. The charge attack and impale remind me of backing out while cloaked, then coming back in with area damage. Also, extra cooldown for his regular attacks is similar to the sword attack speed decrease on the Recon Cloak.
Changes to Gon: If Ashura is Recon, then Gon has to be Striker. His speed and fragility are perfect for the job description. As a Striker he wouldn't teleport per se, but rather move quickly to players' backs for a hit-and-run strike or a vial toss.
Changes to Obsidian Shield: According popular demand, it would be cool if this (or its 5* version) looked like a Guardian set (flag, armor, and shield) that could be used in regular PvE (as in outside Class Missions). If the debuffs were kept on it, it would probably have to have really freaking good defense stats, though.
I haven't played through the mission yet, but apparently there's something in 9-1 about fighting a fallen knight? That's more support for this idea!

Ninja V Spy (Single-class Mission: Recon) (Suggested by Atrumvindex | Supported by me)

Description: While patrolling a Weapons Cache in the Clockworks, a group of Strikers escorted by Emberlighters was ambushed by Ghostmane Stalkers. The Stalkers were preparing to use Weapons Cache to destroy Emberlight, on account of its inhabitants being "Heretics", but they follow a code of honor and they are willing to make a bargain with hostages. Apparently, they want to challenge a squad of Recon Specialists. If we win, our friends will freed. If we lose, Emberlight may be destroyed. As Emberlight has helped us in the past, we must protect their home! The Stalkers are learned in the art of the Buzzsaw and use a cloaking technology similar to our own, so be careful.

More info:

There are two depths. At depth 17, you encounter a Gremlin Ground, normal. This is called "Weapon Silo Hub". This also has the scaffolding and Missiles Akin to IMF.
At depth 18, called "Emberlight Plaza", there is a large Deconstruction Zone where buildings reside. This is a part of Emberlight. As normal, you get keys to unlock gates. The Elevator is blocked by a gate which can only be unlocked via a switch inside the Treasure Gate door. However, that area is as large as a arena room with stun traps and several Ghostmanes. You must defeat 5 waves of them, the last one has T3 Ghostmanes.
To make this a little easier when a Ghostmane and a Knight are both cloaked, if a Knight Death Marks a Ghostmane, they will see sparks where the enemy is.

Ideas and feedback are greatly appreciated!

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 19:43

Juances

1. Would have to make enemies react to Recon cloak (they dont as of now, proof are the rare rock jelly spawns), wich seems complicated enough to make it look real and fair. (or what, press a magic button and all enemies ignore you?)

2. Guardian defenses and healing is totally unbalanced, no need to explain that. Even if alone, you could just freeze enemies and heal in the middle of a battle. Sure it takes a while but you're essentially immortal against most enemies.

3. Striker is pointless. I mean, in pvp is great because you have to move a lot in order to keep control of the map, but also works beacuses we humans have reflexes and work faster than monsters.
More movement looks like wasted potential for lacking a shield, specially when you can dodge most attacks normally. The bonuses are interesting, but a Bts/swiftstrike can fix it.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 21:19

Schattentag

Good point...

Thanks for responding! Now that you mention it, I guess carrying over the Lockdown equipment as-is would probably cause a mess of things.

For the Recon Cloak to be more balanced, enemies would likely have to have higher intelligence. Like Lockdown players often do, monsters would probably respond to being hit by a recon mark. Maybe if there were a bunch of enemies, like a bunch of gremlins for example, they would spread out and search for the Recon Specialist if they weren't already focusing on other players. Alternatively (or additionally), enemies would need to be more complicated in terms of their defense mechanisms, as you stated. Upon receiving a death mark, possibilities for enemies could include making them briefly weak to all damage types or (for enemies like trojans, Darkfang thwackers, and maybe drones) negating shields and invulnerabilities. Another way to balance the Cloak might just be to make its duration extremely limited.

As for the Guardian Shield, healing is definitely a no-go. When I was writing down my idea, I had completely forgotten that Guardians healed at all, so thanks for pointing it out. I still think it would be fun and interesting to have Guardians be the sole source of defense for an entire party. Like I said, Class Missions would involve tougher enemies, so I don't think the shield itself would be too imbalanced in terms of its defense stats. Moreover, it looks to be a 5* shield, so in lower tiers it would be nerfed to some extent (correct me if I'm wrong).

Finally, Strikers. You're pretty much completely right about how BTS/Swiftstrike kind of render the Striker class worthless. I think my only rebuttal would be that in the Class Mission environment you wouldn't be able to take a BTS/Swiftstrike with you, therein lying the beauty of the Class Mission system. It offers a different style of play for the PvE scene, one that encourages (but doesn't require) team play. Lockdown equipment in PvE (specifically Guardian/Striker) would create an interesting way to split up attack and defense duties.

Even if a Class Mission were implemented, players would by no means be required to use it, so you could still use a BTS/Swiftstrike in regular PvE levels. I guess like you said, players can usually dodge most attacks, but the ability to completely forfeit a shield for increased move speed and the buffs similar to BTS/Swiftstrike might be more fun for some people, especially for those who enjoy running solo.

Again, the idea is an underdeveloped one, so feedback is appreciated.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 02:15

Agentalbedo

Exciting!

I think the thing about this idea is that it can only work now that missions are being released, because like Juances said, Striker is mostly only useful for controlling the map and guardian would be invincible if you took the time to heal.

But missions will allow for more scenario oriented pve, rather than the classic level clearing challenges that pve allows at the present.

By forcing a more frantic, fast paced level, sort of like candlestick keep is right now, you wouldn't have time to sit back and heal, and strikers would need to move quickly to keep the team moving forward.

Like Schattentag said, each class could have its own job in the mission, and I think that that is a very cool idea.

I have no ideas about what Recon could do though.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 02:25

Diamondshreddie

i think

i think tha actually works fairly well!! although health bonus/penalties per class would be negated...

i like the idea of the LD classes in PvE missions! it would make swordies have to be careful, guardians be carryig the team, and recon.. well.. supporting the team

i really like the idea!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 05:24

Severage

@OP:

I think this should just be for the new Missions system. Certain missions like, I don't know, "Test Spiral HQ Equipment: Striker" (Even though testing is obviously not necessary since it's in LD, you get the idea).

To make Striker more uber, how about making him invincible from the front (And only the front) while he's boosting around? Boost recharge rate may have to be adjusted, difficult to tell.

As you already stated, Guardian's shield is a no-go, and I think the tactical value of having a single shield-ward with the other players is pretty neat. Of course, should the Guardian's shield fail, each would have his own defenses (Striker could be invincible to frontal attacks, Recons can turn invisible) to help it while the Guardian recovers.

As for Recon, you already stated what I had in mind. During a Death Mark, a 'Con would be able to do a small bit more damage as a "Sneak Attack" idea on his foes. Recons could add a lot of tactical value, but could also make it too easy. If a well-coordinated team simply Death-Marked a massive mob, then cleared it with large bombs/DA Charge Attack, etc, it could be too powerful. So, the short defense nerf on the enemy would have to be pretty small.

BUT, having this as an option for ALL PvE stages wouldn't be cool imo.

~Sev

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 10:44

Schattentag

Clarification (and more ideas)

As implied by the name, Class Missions would fall under the existing Mission System. So I guess what I'm imagining for these Class Missions is a scenario-oriented PvE environment, as Agentalbedo said. I think level structure would probably be limited to tight passages and very large rooms (perhaps the size of an Explosive Blocks Danger Room) in order to avoid forming large mobs for Recon to Death Mark all in one go. As for tight passages, imagine a blood vessel. Recon would be able to maybe get around and mark a "clot" of enemies, and the next clot would be far enough away that Guardian and Striker would still have to fight each clot individually.

My theory for large rooms is that they're large enough that in order for all of the enemies to get really clumped up, parties would have to circle around the room several times. In other words, a big, tight mob would be possible, but there might not be much of an advantage in terms of the time it takes to clear the room. It's important to note that players in a Class Mission would be unable to shield-bash enemies (except maybe Guardian thoughe?), so they would have to rely on their weapons' knockback capabilities if they wanted to quickly form clumps of enemies.

I think a valid strategy for a Recon/Striker team in a large room would be for Recon to mark small, scattered groups of enemies and for Striker to utilize its movement speed increase to take out those groups one by one. Again this kind of shows the advantage of running with a party in Class Missions.

Going off of Agentalbedo's idea of a fast-paced, high-intensity level, how's this for a possibility: rescuing a stranded Spiral Crew member from a secret sector of the Ironclaw Munitions Factory. First off, the level(s) would have a timer (which could be included in the scenario as a self-destruct sequence or something). The timer would have to be generous enough to allow for a variety of equipment to be used to effectively complete the mission, but restricting enough that parties would be highly encouraged to use the Recon and Striker classes as specified above. Second, the Crew member would have a finite amount of health, and must be alive by the end of the mission. Given the explosive-filled environment of IMF, Guardian would play a huge role in protecting party members and the Crew member.

In this example especially, I feel like Recon would be a balanced part of a full party. Recon wouldn't as easily be able to escape harm by dodging enemies because there's still explosive danger from the environment (and from gremlin bombs maybe). At the same time, Recon would be useful in helping to clear out enemies quickly for the sake of the timer. Another thing I realized about Recon is that the ability to mark enemies would greatly enhance the crowd-control capabilities of a bomb-centered arsenal. Haze bombs and vortices could slow down and group enemies in order for the marks to be applied more effectively, and havoc ensues after that. This idea makes Recon a reasonable solo class as well.

Finally, Sev's idea about a frontal shield for Strikers. I kind of like the idea of a limited shield, but at the same time I kind of want to argue that Strikers' defense mechanism is the ability to run away quickly. Anyone else have thoughts on this part?

Two side notes:

Wouldn't it be great if we could see shield health like Guardians do in LD?
Sorry for having such looooong posts. The implementation specifics for a Class Mission system are turning out to be much more detailed than I initially imagined.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 15:14

Severage

@Schattentag

Sounds pretty good. The idea's comin' along.

"Wouldn't it be great if we could see shield health like Guardians do in LD?"

Err...we kinda can. That's why there are like 6 colors the shield changes to before it breaks.

~Sev

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:54

Schattentag

More scenarios?

I was thinking about it and maybe another sort of sub-scenario using the Split Party Button idea within Class Mission levels would be to have Recon go step on a button in a room protected by a bunch of gun puppies while Guardian and Striker fight off a neverending stream of enemies in a large room. The room would open up for the party to proceed when the button is pressed, and monsters would stop spawning (the spawns would just disappear as they do in the last part of IMF). After thinking about it some more, I realized that this scenario seemed kind of biased toward Recon, but also that other classes would be able to go push the button just as easily. Striker could zoom past the gun puppies and maybe dodge a bit, and Guardian would be able to sort of "tank" them.

I actually feel like this scenario might be a little gimmicky, but nonetheless it is an example of teamwork-centric play in Class Missions through the use of a Split Party Button. Maybe people have other ideas for Class Mission scenarios?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 00:04

Derpdederpderp

In addition to everything

In addition to everything already mentioned, I could see a lot of possibilities for single class-based missions, where everybody in the party is of a single class type. Striker mobility? We could have a fight against mobile humanoid opponents. Most of the Spiral Knight bosses are rather slow and huge... it'd be awesome to fight say.... a corrupted version of Alpha Squad as a team of strikers. Enemy AI knights with high mobility and versatile weaponry coupled with no shields could open up a really awesome and intense boss fights. Recon? Stealth missions - infiltrate say, a gremlin fortress and quickly silence any gremlin that catches you while your stealth field is down. Guardian could be aforementioned escort mission or a defend mission - preventing any monsters from reaching a certain point behind you on a map much like some FSC rooms - Scorching Armory bridge much?

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 02:21

#10

Schattentag

An excellent suggestion!

I guess since my existing Class Mission idea is already very scenario-dependent, there's no reason why there shouldn't also be scenarios that each focus on a specific class. This sort of goes with what Sev said in his first post, regarding missions for testing out Lockdown gear in PvE, and with what I was saying in the original post about "training wheels". Personally, I think the idea of the stealth mission you outlined is great.

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:56

#11

Schattentag

(Cleverly disguised bump)

I haven't gotten to try out the Mission System very much yet, but for those of you who have, maybe this thread is more relevant now?

...or maybe there's just so many details that no one wants to read this and it'll just die out.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 11:31

#12

Mohandar

This is an incredibly good idea. Not only will it introduce newbies to how Lockdown classes work, it allows them to play around and get a feel for the class at their leisure, and try out strategies on CPU targets. I would suggest three solo missions (no party), one for each class, and one team mission that involves a scenario designed to be like a Lockdown game, with party members allowed to choose their own class. Obviously, there is a big difference between human and CPU opponents, and the missions would probably be very easy, but the goal is to familiarize Lockdown newbies to the strengths and weaknesses of the different classes, not to substitute for an actual game of Lockdown.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:19

#13

Skold-The-Drac

LD training without the krogmo's

+1 to that. And I would also love to have the class decorations (at least the back accessories) available.

Anyway, good luck with keeping this thread alive.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 11:40

#14

Schattentag

Thanks!

Thank you all for the support and feedback. I've updated the original post to make the Class Mission concept a little more tangible.

After playing around with missions for a bit, I'm feeling more and more like Class Missions could really be a thing. Missions seem to be very scenario-oriented (as should be expected, I guess), and the Class Mission scenarios we've come up so far with could probably fit right in. Of course, more scenarios that illustrate the idea of a Class Mission would be awesome.

EDIT: I also threw in a link to Cactuscat's thread about back accessories.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 00:28

#15

Fourtarkus

I wish I could +2. This is awesome.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:11

#16

Schattentag

Haha

I really appreciate it, Fourtarkus!

Anyway, I've added the first piece of concept art to the original post, showing how Class Missions would fit into the existing Mission interface.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 03:25

#17

Agentalbedo

I'm thinking

I'm thinking that maybe you don't need to get rid of the Guardian's health recovery effect. Missions as a whole seem like they're less about endurance, and more about a couple more intense and more exciting battles. When I envision class missions, I'm picturing either a fast paced and frenetic charge through the map, where you wouldn't really have time to stop and heal, or a well paced level that has those intense battles that would be a challenge even at full health.

Also here's a sorta scenario thing that might be cool:

Defend the Base!: Some npc knights have set up a base in the clockworks. You have to protect it from monsters while closing the gates to keep more monsters from appearing. Could happen in any sort of stratum with any type of enemy.
I'm not sure if the gates would reopen after a while and you'd just have to protect the base for a certain amount of time, or the mission would end after all of the gates were closed. Probably the former.

Regardless, there could be lots of class teamwork here, with maybe a duo of Guardians or recons protecting the base and strikers each going after the gates. There'd have to be a lot of enemies though.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 14:46

#18

Metaalpha

Nice

I like the idea and also I did a mission today and found a knight with the recon gear on. It was a gremlin mission and you had to rescue about 4-6 knights and bring them to the recon guy.
I give this a +9

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 13:22

#19

Schattentag

Update!

It's unfortunate that this made it all the way to page 3 over the weekend, but we're back!

Agentalbedo, I thought about it for a while and I think your idea actually works out very well for Class Missions. I added the scenario to the original post with some more details/modifications, but I'll put some thoughts in this post. My thinking is that if you make the surrounding area large enough, you actually end up with something like a PvE version of Lockdown. Since monsters would spawn almost infinitely, it's a little similar to having the opposing team respawn. Trying to switches activated and gates shut while protecting the Geo Knights would be like trying to maintain control over capture points in Lockdown. The larger the map, the greater the challenge.

As for healing, it's been a while since I've played Lockdown and actually paid attention to how fast things get healed. Even if the healing is incredibly slow, I still agree with Juances that you could just freeze stuff, sit, and heal forever (with the exception of a timed mission).

Anyway, I also added another scenario that I thought would be cool. The description portion was quite painful to write. Like I wrote up in the original post, it would be an endurance mission, fighting off lots of mobs (presumably without a consistent source of healing).

Anyone have thoughts?

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 22:33

#20

Pokenuevo

Just saw your comment on my new post about a PvP mission, linking here, and I'm liking what I'm seeing a lot.
I'll try to add a little bit in the future, but I have to head to sleep now. Here's a few things:
-Coliseum - Sounds very close to Arena, so maybe you can add a mini-boss at the end of the Coliseum to make it unique
-I feel a lot of Striker+DA combos would come from this due to that being the main endgame sword
-For Clutches of Ironclaw: This is the anti-Guradian level where there's a time limit, along with many obstacles (difficult for the slow Guardian). Was this intended?

EDIT: Also, I would recommend lowering the Bomb Charge increase for the Striker to short or medium for fast-paced bombers (especially in cramped missions such as the Coliseum)

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 22:54

#21

Schattentag

Haha

Well, I'm glad you like it. Thanks for the feedback, too!

Coliseum Coup is a bit different from an Arena because there wouldn't be any treasure or healing pads. All treasure and healing would only come as a result of defeating mobs. However, I'm not opposed to the idea of a mini-boss at the end of the Coliseum. I figured having a bunch of trojans at the same time might be a good challenge, but if you have ideas for something new, I'm all ears!

Not quite sure if your mention of Striker-DA combos is something good or bad, but I'm not really seeing any problems at the moment.

As for Clutches of Ironclaw, it wasn't my intention to make an anti-Guardian level. If anything, I envisioned large areas where the Guardian would have to make careful decisions about when exactly to shield and when to run around. The way I see it, the faster Striker/Recon take care of enemies, the sooner Guardian will be able to stop worrying about slowing down to shield.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:43

#22

Schattentag

Raaaaaise the dead on your turntables! Up, up, and away~

Anyone who knows the reference gets 3 (yes, three) cookies.

Anyway, I decided to overhaul the idea of a corrupt Alpha Squad and replace it with an adapted version of Just-Crusising's idea (The Betrayers) because I think it's a more fleshed-out concept. See the original post for my thoughts and proposed changes for this idea to fit Class Missions.

I earnestly think Class Missions could work in Spiral Knights. Are people not posting here because they don't want to read or because they don't agree with me? If anyone wants to shoot down this idea, give me your best shot.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 01:58

#23

Schattentag

@Just-Crusising

The reason I didn't post these changes in your thread was because I feel like the ideas were made different enough that they shouldn't really be mixed with yours. Your original concept for The Betrayers is be more likely to be implemented than my Class Missions version simply for the fact that Class Missions as a whole would probably be more complicated to make, so that's why I separated them.

In regards to your response to the changes:
Shiram: I guess you're probably right, making it regenerate too fast would be difficult because the other two would be making a mess of your party. Still, 20 seconds is a lot of free vulnerability on a boss like The Betrayers, I think.
Ashura: That sounds like a good idea...Maybe the deathmark would lower your defense like poison does?
Gon: Sorry, when I said "to match perfectly he would have to do more damage", I didn't mean he should do more damage. I just meant that he basically fits the profile of a Striker, except for the damage bonus.

I'll update the OP in a bit with this discussion in mind. As for discussing in-game, I think it might be better to discuss here, where other people can read about it and possibly contribute ideas of their own. If you insist, though, my in-game name is Schattentag.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 10:30

#24

Softhead

Single class:

A level where recons fight against Ghostmane Stalkers.

May elaborate later.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 03:06

#25

Schattentag

@Atrumvindex

I don't have the Expansion Pack, so everything I know about Stalkers is just from the wiki: they have a cloak and they can deathmark things, just like a Recon. If anyone could fill me (and others?) in on the details, maybe we could put a new scenario together.

I think I saw something in the second set of rank missions released today about escaping the clutches of gremlins. I'm not sure if this is at all like the Clutches of Ironclaw scenario, but it got me thinking. What if some of the more unique missions could simply be adapted to have a Class Missions counterpart? What comes to mind right now are some of the battlepod missions and possibly Blades of the Fallen (mainly that last room with four trojans). Again, this needs a bit of work, but perhaps Recons could negate the shields on battlepods and trojans?

Thoughts, anyone?

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 12:16

#26

Severage

@Schattentag:

The Gremlin Ninjas, as I like to call them, do the following (I don't have the expansion but friends have shown me):

They are pretty much always cloaked until you hit them or they try to attack,

They have a long-ranged attack, in which they throw a bunch of little saw-blades at you.

They also have a short-ranged attack if they're behind you when they come out of cloak, where they take their knife and run you through with it.

I don't think they really do anything else, lol.

~Sev

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 12:24

#27

Triplescrew

@Sev

They also mark you with disrupting field....And if u marked they all decloak and try to hit you ( Thats very painful due to defence debuff)

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 14:38

#28

Schattentag

I call upon thee from the Land of the Dead, to unleash...

...can anyone finish that off? If so, whoever does it gets a cookie.

Well, still not sure what to do with the Ghostmane Stalkers, but as I've been playing through missions I've been noticing more and more stuff like the scenarios we've come up with (I've only gone up to 8-2, so no spoilers please). All the more reason to adapt current missions to suit Class Missions.

I've been thinking about the whole Death Mark thing and I think there's basically two easy-to-implement solutions. The easiest would be simply to give enemies the same defense decrease that poison gives. The other way would be to create an equal but opposite effect to a Swarm Seed. I haven't played through any Shadow Lairs, but I know the Seeds provide a defense buff for enemies, so it shouldn't be too hard to make something that debuffs, right?

Changing the OP in a bit...maybe for the last time...

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 19:32

#29

Kive

well written but.....

to much words 9_9

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:10

#30

Schattentag

Eh...

I'm terrible at making things more concise, but I'll try I guess?

Bumping this because the first few pages right now are lol-worthy...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 10:20

#31

Softhead

Furry Specters(Single Vs

Ninja V Spy(Single Vs Single)

Description: While pratoling a Weapons Cache in the Clockworks, a group of strikers escorted by Emberlighters were abushed by Ghostmane Stalkers. These Gremlins learn in the art of the Buzzsaw and have a code of honour.This is not limited to a bargan with hostages. But, the weapon Cache they redside was prepearing to destroy Depth 18, Emberlight due to them being "Heretics".

Apparently, they want to challenge a squad of recons. If we win, the they are free. If we lose, Emberlight Will be destroyed.

As Emberlight has helped us in the past, we must Protect their home!

Prepare and defeat the stalkers!

There are two depths. At depth 17, you encounter a Gremlin Ground, normal. This is called "Weapon Silo Hub". This also has the scaffolding and Missiles Akin to IMF.

At 18 Called "Emberlight Plaza", there is a large Decon Zone where buildings reside. This is a part of Emberlight. As normal, you get keys to unlock gates. The Elevator is blocked by a gate which can only be unlocked via a switch inside the Treasure Gate door. However, That area is as large as a arena room with haze(stun) traps and several Ghostmanes. You must defeat 5 waves of them, the last one has T3 Ghostmanes.

To make this fair, when a Ghostmane and a Knight are both in recon and their Death Marks activated, they can start seeing sparks where the enemy is, allowing a weakness against Ghostmanes.

EDIT: Replaced Bandsaw with buzzsaw. Changed Furry Specters to Ninja V Spy ATM.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 01:51

#32

Schattentag

Woo!

Thanks for the details! I'll add/discuss your mission idea soon.

In the meantime, I just added a table of contents to the OP. I hope this makes it a little easier for people to navigate...

EDIT:
@Atrumvindex
Alright, discussion time! Sorry for this being a little late.

First off, I'm not so sure about the title "Furry Specters", since "furry" has a few...interesting connotations. I don't know if OOO would be able to use this because of copyright issues, but what about something classic like "Spy vs. Spy"?

Your description sounds pretty good, but I'm not entirely sure what you meant with the bargaining and the code of honor. On a side note, Ghostmane Stalkers' weapons bear something closer to a buzzsaw/circular saw, not a bandsaw. A bandsaw is literally a long band of sharp metal that is rotated to cut things whereas a buzzsaw/circular saw is more of a sharpened disk of metal. /nitpick

I really like the idea of fighting at depth 18 because it gives the scenario a lot more personality. I'm not sure whether the devs would allow this to happen, but it would be cool if they did.

As for the actual level design, I think it would be a little simpler if the Deconstruction Zone was a separate level, then Emberlight came after that. I don't think stun traps exist, so either the devs would have to create them or they would have to choose a different trap. I'm thinking poison would actually be somewhat appropriate, since it would sort of amplify the idea of a Death Mark. I can't say for sure because I've never fought them, but I think your idea of having Stalkers spark when marked is a good one.

I'll add your idea to the OP tomorrow when I have time, but in the meantime does anyone have thoughts?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 06:07

#33

Evning

Hey, i mentioned your thread in mine.

Hey, i mentioned your thread in mine, as i felt it could be relevant

With regards to asking for additional scenarios
Please look at my post, to be specific, suggestion 3

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/47804

Excerpt::

============================================================================
SUGGESTION 3 :: With regards to making the equipment prestige missions actually matter to the contributors
============================================================================
But lastly, Philanthropist like to see their contributions actually making a difference to their target charity.

Therefore I suggest a Level, or a mission, that evolves with the contribution points of the last month.
The scenario of the level could be a skirmish level,
Like a big battle between hundreds of enemies(gremlins?) and hundreds of NPC knights.
(But seriously, fix these NPC knights first please)
I was going to also suggest storm the camp(castle, village, etc) but that would be too similar to the expansion level.

So the level is a battle and you just happen to arrive in time for the start of the battle.
Some one else suggested a clockworks lockdown, i really like that idea, and that could come here.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/44432
If not, then the level would just be a big square patch of land with some terrain details, like a small stream separating the 2 sides
A chess board themed land would be cool too, like in Through the Looking Glass.
The gate to the next level would only unlock when one side is defeated.

The NPC knights would hold weapons that were mentioned in all the prestige missions in the last month.
The amount of contributions from the past month would decide the amount of NPC knights holding those contribution weapons.
if the public has been miserly, then there would be more NPC knights fighting in proto gear.

The NPC Knights should also be constantly saying things every time they kill/or be killed by an enemy
Either
Very pompous and overtly thankful words of praises to their kind, generous, almost gods of a benefactor
or
Very tragic, dramatic, and Shakespearean woeful wails and goodbyes to the cruel world and how they would have survived if their gear had been better.
It would be best to also mention how they long to see their dearly beloved or their aged mothers again.

When the Knights Win, the players will be honored by the NPC on a pedestal, flooded in praises and be given a special token, or accessory or token that can be accumulated to exchange for war themed costume/accessories
i.e "THE GRAND POOBAH HELM" "COMMANDER IN CHIEF CREST" "LORD HIGH ANYTHING CHEVRONS"

When the Knights Lose, the NPC leader would scream(in the speech bubble) dramatically "ALL HOPE IS LOST! FLEE BRAVE KNIGHTS! SAVE YOURSELVES, GO ON.... without m......."
Then the players will have to make a mad dash to the elevator with all the remaining enemies chasing them down... throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the knights.

============================================================================

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 20:25

#34

Schattentag

Alrighty...update

@Atrumvindex
I finally got around to adding your scenario to the OP. I changed around some of the wording so that it made sense to me, but let me know if I misinterpreted anything.

@Evning
Thanks for the mention!
I'm not entirely sure if you wanted me to treat your excerpt as a scenario idea, but I guess there isn't really harm in doing so.

First things first, for the purposes of this thread I'm going to disregard the part about allies using the things you've donated for Prestige Missions. It's kind of a cool concept, it just doesn't really belong in this thread.

Moving on...
I like the idea of a big skirmish between knights and enemies, but I think the biggest issue I'm seeing is the amount of lag it would entail. If too many things moving around, there's going to be major lag issues. I assume this is why enemies currently come in waves. If allies/enemies had a set number of waves, I guess this would be okay (e.g. you get 5 waves of knight reinforcements to fight 15 waves of enemies). Another issue is that the current knights simply take too long to die. I guess I'm just thinking it wouldn't be too difficult to fight off a bunch of enemies while protecting the knights, unless there's really just THAT many enemies...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:47

#35

Selenium

@Guardians not healing

Perhaps they could use mats to repair the armor of their comrades? Say, shards or the larger minerals.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 00:42

#36

Schattentag

@Selenium

Hm...

That's an interesting concept, and it might be cool as a material sink, but I worry that this will give an advantage towards players who have either been playing the game for a long time or just have enough money to buy a lot of materials. I guess if you're a poorer player then you could still save up some materials for emergency healing in Class Missions, but still...

I've been thinking about it on and off for a while and I'm wondering whether the Guardian shield should be allowed a very slow rate of healing (maybe even slower than the heal pads in FSC). Like Agentalbedo said way back here, missions should be paced fast enough to prevent excessive healing, but there's still the problem of being able to just freeze enemies forever while healing.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 11:03

#37

Quotefanboy

I think something that would be cool for guardian:

Guardians guard now, instead of healing, do what they say they do. Guard. It's sort of the protection bubble, whoever gets hit inside of the giant bubble actually hits the guardian, and his shield, and if there's more then 1 guardian then all of them who are guarding take the same guard damage, to prevent guard stacking on a 4 man group to literally have everyone guard and everyone only takes 1/4 the damage in guarding to where shields would never break.

Either that, or everyone in the bubble gets a defense increase to where they take less damage in the bubble, and you're only effected by 1 to prevent stacking.

Also- Idea for a Class Mission

Crash Landed:
You only have your armor, and your class, but not your weapon (trinkets too I guess though).
At the beginning of the stage there's 3 boxes, and each person can only open 1 (but multiple people can open the same box).

There would be a Sword, Gun, and Bomb box. The first item given is always neutral related. (Nitronome, CIV, Iron Slug, Etc).
Later on in the stage there would be elemental boxes and Shadow and more neutral.

Note- Once you open a box in that part, you cannot open another.
If you're currently holding the max amount of weapons you can hold, the item you're holding when you try to open a box will be replaced by what you get.

The purpose of this event: It's one of those pot luck missions that make it very hard by the sheer randomness. It takes both luck, and skill to beat this mission because you need to:
A.) Know what you want and what the situation calls for (If you know there's ghosts up ahead, get an elemental weapon not a shadow one.)
B.) Discard what you don't like/Aren't good with (You grabbed a shadow bomb, but you got the Dark Retribution and not the Graviton Vortex, or a Shivermist and not a Electron Vortex).
C.) Hope to god what you're getting is good.
D.) Utilize what you're already wearing with what you're about to grab. (Wearing vog, you should probably grab a sword first. Etc).

The items have NO UV's on them, so it's up to your armor and trinkets and method of playing your class to decide what you get.

This would be a very random, and very hectic mission, but could be a lot of fun. Just an idea.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 22:20

#38

Schattentag

Very interesting...

Regarding the Guardian class, I always assumed that they would guard just as they do in Lockdown, meaning they follow the first pattern you outlined - each Guardian's shield takes damage for anything inside the bubble, and if there are multiple Guardians they each take the original amount of damage that would have been dealt (no stacking, no division). The only potential differences between a Class Mission Guardian Shield and a Lockdown one are outlined in the "potential modifications" section under the Guardian class in the OP. I guess I should probably state that a little more clearly - all classes should be essentially the same as their original Lockdown versions, besides the potential modifications.

As for your scenario, I feel like it could almost be its own type of mission. :P

The way I'm understanding your scenario is that your party is essentially reliving the Alpha Squad experience. Party members have crash landed on Cradle, and in order to fight they must make use of the armor/equipment on their backs and whatever weapons they find scattered in the remnants of the crash. They need to work together and adapt their strategy in order to survive.

I think this scenario would be really cool, but I'm not sure how the weapon boxes would work in terms of their programming. I guess that's up to the devs if they ever decide to include something like this, though.

Last note - thanks for contributing!

EDIT:
Derp. I should probably list what class is used in Single-class Missions...

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 08:15

#39

Schattentag

Bump.

Buuuuuump.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 16:41

#40

Softhead

BUMP!!

GDIT!

I have a unelaborated idea(will soon): A mission where you play as guardians and escort several un armed knights through a "Weight of Darkness" that is very hard and is filled with trojans.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 16:49

#41

Floipd

FTW?? WTF!!!

Ok so:

TL;DR because right at the start some idiots decide to take away everything that caracterises the classes in LD. Take away health bonusses and penalties, shield healing and shield def. levels? Than why not dump the classes and just run it, hey that's like how it is now isn't it?
When I saw the title I was excited and thought: "Yay, someone who also thinks of going recon and backstabbing annoying demo's", but your 'measurements' take the point out of using the classes.

My point:
You can't have classes with entirely different functions (and thus pro's) without some cones to help you decide which class to pick.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 17:53

#42

Softhead

WTF!?

Want to be OPed in PVE!?

Didn't think so.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 19:00

#43

Severage

o_o

@Atrumvindex.

~Sev

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 00:29

#44

Schattentag

@Floipd

I can see where you're coming from with the health bonuses/penalties. One of the biggest things that differentiates a Striker from a Guardian is his/her fragility. At the same time, though, there are other things that sort of add to this difference between those two classes - Strikers have no shield, and Guardians have a huge, tough one. No one ever said the defenses would be removed from the Guardian Shield, only adjusted. As-is, the Guardian Shield would be able to easily tank just about anything, so lowering its defense levels by some extent would make for a more balanced shield.

Healing equipment of any kind seems to be regarded as quite imbalanced because of its potential spamming. Like I said here, I'm personally starting to wonder if it could possibly work with a slow enough rate. There's always going to be the issue of freezing then healing forever, though.

As always, this is a forum, so everything is up for discussion. If I find that people can come up with strong reasoning to keep health bonuses/penalties or healing, I'll certainly change the OP to reflect that sentiment.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 01:11

#45

Shoebox

Not formatted because I am a lazy box.

This idea isn't very well thought out or broad enough in scope.

For one, the level design tools allow for situations in which only people of specific classes (or a single person) would be able to get through, removing the need for 'Split Party Buttons'. So I find that entirely redundant.

Not only this, but choosing a class before deployment and making that class permanent for the duration of the mission goes against the nature of the equipment in Lockdown as well as the freedom of weapon selection in Spiral Knights. If somebody beats you to choosing Striker and you're not geared to take Guardian or Recon, you're not going to want to play.

And, well, the game is already fairly easy as it is. Giving people Striker/Guardian shields outside of Lockdown would just make the game a dawdle. Plus invisibility is always OP vs. AI.
The Missions would need to be quite difficult or hectic in order to make the best use of the shields, without outclassing other missions or clockworks runs. And I don't think this is currently possible. Even with the proposed balancing.

In any case, I do like the idea of taking the shields outside of lockdown and they should be for very specific scenarios.

Free Missions: These would allow you to pick any class you like. There's no restrictions on how many of a certain class there is and you can change what gear you have at resupply stations if you're getting beat too hard. Resupply stations would also act like checkpoints during a level so people can change what class they are or have the equipment removed.

Restricted Missions: These would be for a specific class. Or exclude a certain class from being played.

Resupply Rooms: These would be randomly generated in the clockworks and contain an energy door, like that of danger rooms. You go inside the room and find the Lockdown Equipment and trying to exit the area with the equipment causes it disappear, however you need the equipment to enter the danger room portion of the encounter. These would also be a good template for adding into other missions or areas in order to change the pacing as well and make the shields open to every area of play the game provides.

Naturally, the Lockdown gear should augment certain abilities, but come with heavy drawbacks in order to add incentive to not taking a class where a choice is offered. Otherwise, like I said before, standard areas and equipment would become redundant.

There would need to be some heavy adjustments to the game in order to make it work but I think it would be a good addition to the game.
I also think T1, T2 and T3 variants of the equipment would be good to fit in with the rest of the game.

I also think, like Nick's original idea, a sort of Avatar/Nemesis PvP mission would be cool. Where players could be selected to turn against the party at a certain point or something along those lines. It would make for an interesting mission at least.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 00:41

#46

Little-Cloud

Defense Supreme

Single-Class (Guardian)
Description: A squad of knights is stuck in a gremlin outpost and they have reported they need help from guardians to destroy the outpost and help them escape. Their latest reports have told us that the area is heavily fortified and that they cannot attack the outpost on their own.
Rewards: Prestige (obvious), Guardian Crest (not to be mistaken with Azure Guardian Crest, this crest has a green shield symbol on)
Objective: Save the missing squad from Darkfang Gremlins within the outpost!
Tier: 3
Depths:
Depth 21: The Approach
Enemies: Darkfang Thwackers, Darkfang Menders, one Mortafire, Gun Puppies, Mecha Knights and Knockers.
Depth 22: The Outpost
Enemies: Darkfang Demos, Darkfang Thwackers, Darkfang Menders, Darkfang Scorchers, three Mortafires, two Ghostmane Stalkers, Mecha Knights, seven Retrodes, Lighters and Gun Puppies.
NPCs: Missing Squad
Depth 23: The Escape
Enemies: Same as the outpost but has no ghostmanes.
NPCs: Four Companion Knights (that squad)
P.S: On Imgur, how do you add pictures to your album?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 00:40

#47

Little-Cloud

Uhhh, Schatten...

Schatten, this IS Pow, I've been waiting for a while for your reply.
P.S. Remember seeing me ingame?
P.S2. I SUPPORT NO HEALTH PENALTY ON STRIKE BOOSTER!
P.S3. Yes, I DO have a Playstation 2.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 01:22

#48

Little-Cloud

IMGUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRR

http://imgur.com/a/LJWf4
Imgur album that has alot to do with Defense Supreme.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 04:41

#49

Little-Cloud

PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBLEM!

Schatten, you lied when you daid you'll check.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 09:16

#50

Schattentag

Holy crap...

@Little-Cloud
You know, contrary to popular belief, I don't actually dedicate my life to the Spiral Knights Suggestions Forum. I'm a little busy now, so just hang tight, okay? If you want me to give you a serious response, you're going to have to wait. While I appreciate the free bumps, they're not going to help make me write up a proper reply any faster...

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Class Missions (Scenarios Needed)