Meteors: 'Cause giving bombers access to natural catastrophes is fun.
Jue, 11/15/2012 - 14:11
Giving some love to bombers by giving them a wide range, absolutely devastating and completely unpredictable bomb.
Or is it?
Here we have... the meteor cannon!
Wait what? Didn't you just said that it's a bomb?
Usually, it's a little stationary cannon that is charged and placed LIKE a bomb. You charge it you place it, and it does stuff. Bomb-like 'nuff to me to count as a bomb. If it makes you happy: The cannon has a small self-destruct mechanism after firing its last shot, making an explosion slightly bigger than the one of the good ol' 1*-bomb.
So yeah. What does it do?
Upon placing your neat lil helper, it will take a little moment to place itself on the ground, and then fire a volley of balls/rocks/whatever you feel like calling them into the air. After a specific amount of shots(which is different from branch and level), it will self-destruct. Well, end of the show. A neat little firework for your enemys while they start to tear you apart.
Or is it? Now look onto the ground again. After about a second or so after the first one has been fired, there should form yet another bomb circle on the ground. How is that possible, you only laid one bomb after all? Well, turns out that the entity you dub as rock has the natural instinct to find right back to the ground once flinged into the air. And it turns out it does at such a force it crushes through the floor and leaves a sizable explosion. Remember kids: Never throw a rock straight up... it might land directly on top of your head. Or on somebody near you, for that matter. Throw rock, let it come back with a bang, how is that even supposed to work(especially with the skybox being obstructed by higher etages of the clockwork? Science. Or the rule of cool the game already dwelves in, whatever fits better.
What's up with that air strike now?
Anyone noticed those rockets at the Roarmulus twins battle? You know, which come from above and damage you if you don't step out of the blast radius? Remove the lock-on(the radius always appears under your feet), concentrate it on a more concentrated spot, supercharge the damage and double the blast radius. This is the meteor. Basically, a barrage of bombs from above.
The cannon needs time to build up and prepare for the shot(about 2 seconds), and a meteor needs 1 second to be near enough to create the circle. From there on, you have about 1.5 seconds to flee, thus the bomb has a delay of 4.5 seconds. It has pretty subliminal knockback, a bit more than a brandish/calibur-slash. The radius in which they can spread is pretty huge, being between that of the nitronome and the old big angry bomb. Note: I said Spread. It's not the actual blast radius. Don't club me to death yet.
The damage shall be elemental. Meteors do seem to be on fire. Or just count stone as elemental. It's an excuse to get more elemental damage for the bombers, okay? But just make them look like they're on fire or hot. That'll already do.
The damage, while pretty mediocre for a single meteorit, really starts to shine when multiple meteors hit a single enemy, which will likely happen at higher tiers and also for larger enemys. However, each time a meteorit hits an enemy, the next one will only hit him for half the damage and so forth, so you can't just one-hit kill bosses with a sufficiently overpowered meteor shower.
It sounds pretty damn OP, man!
This kind of power comes at a price... not only are the meteors completely random and unpredictable, thus hard to count on when you're playing defensively, but falling stones, contrary to your energy bombs that seem to magically guarantee friendly fire, don't seperate between friend and enemy: The meteor explosions can hurt hostile wolvers and fellow teammates alike, so make sure to get out of that spread raidus in these 3 second-delay. Otherwise, the metaphor about someone throwing a stone right above himself and hitting him on his head doesn't seem too funny anymore. Because it just happened to you. Don't let all these small mistakes stack up. Oh yeah, the damage is barely noticable for your other team members, albeit still annoying(You can eliminate sonic-moded mateys with it and can push them around a bit... it's really barely a threat). I mean, why let team mates suffer any more than they already do, having an incompetent suicide bomber in their team? You however don't have such an excuse. Seems like rocks are sentient enough to seek for revenge to those who robbed them off their precious ground... a single rock can screw you over like a lumber-hit.
In other words, swords aren't the only ones to have risky weapon-fun anymore: This time, you can treat your whole teams health if you don't use it properly.
You just gave griefers the perfect weapon. Congratulations, moron!
Ever played lockdown? You won't be in trouble by bombers as you can just avoid being in their explosion radius, unless they're camping at a control point. Well, true, given the fact that the meteorits come rather delayed without any warning besides the small cannon before the shower, this might change(look at those sad Wolver-strikers. They can't follow you through your maze of explosions anymore).
However, that being said, the damage is really only a mild annoyance to mateys as long as it's not the bomber himself. If they can't take it anymore, they can kick the no-hoper. Unless he's the master, in which case it might be better to go solo either way, because your leader is an outright dick.
So... a summarization?
Indeed.
It's an overpowered, yet unpredictable and risky bomb. The catch is, you are never guaranteed a hard hit while you can also win in the lottery and cause massive damage to a crowd of enemys(alternatively, you could also shield bump them into the meteors. Maybe this could be counted as valid method of using the bomb?). The charge time is alright, the damage can be supreme, the knockback is... not useful for knocking things back, but highly useful for keeping enemys inside the spread radius. However, it's unpredictability and massive trade-off of being able to hit yourself with your own rocks can make this bomb be tricky to use, especially for defensive purposes. In other words: It's a very offensive bomb that trades any sort of security or guaranteed damage for an absolutely random pattern of pure destruction.
I could imagine this being useful for lockdown, too: No wolver clone will dare to blindly run into that madness that calls itself a bomb. Sure, a vaporizer can help keeping the control point, but this one shines as being a simple death threat to the enemy, as neither you or he can predict wether it hits him or not... and if it does, it's devastating. Would also work nice for recons, too: They could just stay careful and hide themself inside the meteor-madness of the bomb while always avoiding the blast radius of a meteorit.
So... I'm pretty sure it has some pretty massive balance issues here and there(no professional bomber at all), but I hope you like the idea at least. Suggestions, nerfs, criticism, everything welcome, as usual.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 07:26
#2
:)
i enjoyed reading this.
its a +1 for me.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 07:30
#3
Well
It is just that friendly fire isn't well accepted, when I suggested a Claymore bomb with small radius but high damage that wouldn't discriminate targets I got my throat choked by some people. XD
Or I dunno, my threads don't tend to get many answers too. Also, this "mortar" device is something I sort of suggested in the 4th Class: Engineer thread.
Just keep the suggestions coming if they are this well redacted, don't give up on exposing ideas, and remember that we have a mystery "Lab" incoming and it could mean many things... and I hope it is related to complex weaponry!
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 07:49
#4
Damnit, checked bomb-threads, but not the engi-class
Fuuu... I always happen to copy some stuff from somewhere, now don't I?
Edit: Well, good thing they aren't too similar... in fact, besides shooting stuff upwards, there isn't too much resemblance it seems. Fair 'nuff, I didn't copy you too much then :D
That being said, the damage isn't even too high for other team mates. It's still there and can screw you over if you don't watch out, but well... it's part of the bomb's design. It makes no sense to give the damage to the placer only, and allowing mateys to hide in that meteor storm shouldn't actually happen. Also, it stops people from spamming the weapon too much.
So, we have a bomb that's self-damaging depending on the users skill on dodging his own bombs, and penaling people who think they can just hide inside that meteor shower or lure them into it. However, as they still take some damage(not much, that of a tier 1 enemy, if not a bit more: somewhere around 2 or 3 hearts if averagely defended).
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 10:25
#5
So much want to review, but so much free Wakfu compensation to use before it runs out in a couple days.
They gave us this potion that gives +100% experience, +50% drops, and +100% profession experience for both gathering and crafting, and it lasts twelve hours of gameplay time. Among other things.
Still trying/struggling to keep up with what goes on around here, but do not expect anything from me until Saturday or Sunday. You can gossip all you want about what I carry in my crate or all the weird shenanigans I have while people are secretly snapping pictures for future blackmail substance. Or discuss whatever the thread is about like normal people.
Have some Cash.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 11:13
#6
To me, it sounds like a tweaked old Sun Shard. You put something in the floor and it shoot things.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 11:41
#7
@Little-Juances
The whole thing IS kinda supposed to be a new actually offensive bomb, now that the old shard bombs are likely gone for good. It works differently than it, tho. By far. The shards shoot shards in all direction, and this is basically a mini volcano randomly throwing meteors into the air that cause explosions.
And have fun with your weird drop-boost potion in your beloved other game, Lug.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 12:31
#8
--METEOR STRIKE--
This reminds me of Advance Wars.
Anyway, this sounds fun. And interesting. How long does the storm last, and about how much area does the typical storm? And are there ways of weaving between the meteors? Depending on the first and last ones, I might use this in tandem with Nitro, VT, or SS. Muahahahaha. Die die die. Also, I assume this is Normal damage because it's rocks. Will any status effects be applied, maybe Stun or Fire?
Friendly Fire might be dangerous, even in tiny amounts, especially if there's ever an annoying escort mission; however, hurting yourself is probably OK. The tooltip HAS TO WARN YOU, though; people will be surprised when their own meteors smash their heads in. They're used to not being hurt by explosions they made.
I love the idea of a meteor storm bomb and this pretty much fits.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 13:41
#9
Hm...
You know, I'm not good with numbers, so I don't think I should tell the exact values, as I'm kind of a balance noob and I only really can think of the concepts themself. However, I'll just try.
So...
"How long does the storm last?"
I thought of maybe giving the 5*-version of it 7 meteors, fired at a rate of 0.7 seconds(so the duration between first shot and last shot should equal about 5 seconds). Every meteor has in effect a delay of 2.5 seconds. As I said, no great balancer, so just see these numbers as demonstration.
"about how much area does the typical storm?"
The meteors should have the possiblity to spread at an area smaller then the nitronome blast radius and the ol' big angry bomb. The blast radius of the meteors themself should probably equal twice the radius of those rockets at the roarmulus boss fight.
"And are there ways of weaving between the meteors?"
You should technically be able to place one meteor cannon after another, as long as you can avoid the loads and loads of meteors without being damaged.
"I assume this is Normal damage because it's rocks"
By the way, half of these questions are answered in the OP. Anyway, it's elemental. Not normal. Why? Because bombers seem to lack an elemental damage bomb.
"Will any status effects be applied, maybe Stun or Fire?"
No status effects planned, it should stay at raw damage.
Again, I can't say it often enough: I'm very, very bad at balancing anything. I can feel that the times especially need reworking( a bomb that shoots upward every half a second seems a bit stupid, for example. Oh well, maybe it works just fine?).
And of course, the tooltip warns you. It would be very rude otherwise. The fang of vog has such a warning too, no?
Yeah, I want bombers with meteor bombs too. It's also a great concept to actually give bomb users a viable high-damage bomb. Which I did here: Very offensive, sucks at defense.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 22:27
#10
the only problem
i love this idea! its a fun new way to bomb and its aggressive. cant wait to try it in LD if it implemented. the only problem i have with it is that it hurts teammates in the party that your in. the self-hurting weapons that are in the game are faust and fang of vog. they hurt the player that is using the weapon, but they do not hurt other party members. fang of vog could hurt your party ,embers if there were multiple oilers around and u just felt like swinging it around or using the charge for hectic suicidal fun. the fang of vog would only hurt the players this way because that user is foolish, not because the weapon was intended that way. so my argument is, i do not like a weapon that has a guarantee that it will cause friendly fire to ur teammates because they were afk or cause they were just not good enough at dodging. so i would like the friendly fire to be exclusive only the the user of the bomb, ad no other party members. i can imagine if a party leader who did not like this bomb just kicking anyone who was using it off the team.
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 08:09
#11
@Blandaxt
To me, it's the same scenario: Don't use the weapon properly, and you will harm your teammates. It's part of the weapon's design, using it so that you don't harm others. However, while for example the Polaris pushes enemys away and thus can unpredictebly cause a knocked monster to attack mates, here the mates exactly see the circles on the ground. Same for the fang of vog, where people can harm others without giving them any warning.
In other words, while friendly fire as part of the design might be mean, it's actually fairer and safer for the team mates, even though they can be directly damaged by it. First, because you exactly know what's coming and thus should have enough time to dodge or shield and second, because the firendly fire to team mates is reduced to scratch damage. In fact, a weapon designed with friendly fire and delay in mind actually makes getting hit by it as much your own fault as it is the fault of your own team mate.
Also, it's there to not give only a single person in the team special treatment to the huge explosions, and avoid for example luring enemys into the meteor shower without any threat for the own life whatsoever.
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 08:30
#12
well
well all i am saying is that OOO has shun away from creating weapons that does direct damage to other players. the fang of vog and polaris is all indirect friendly fire. this weapon does direct damage, so i doubt OOO will accept that function.
besides that part, its a great weapon.
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 16:01
#13
Birds and death was almost down from the top of the sky
This has a little of the old and new shard bombs, but should be its own thing.
Same as with everyone else, take out the friendly fire part and we can work with it, but I have a few naughty ideas of my own. Not naughty as in, you know; explicit. You know what I mean.
Not a bomber, you say? Well, I got you covered there. If you want to compare offense, look to Nitronome and Barrage. Basically the same thing except Barrage has pierce instead of normal and the animation on Nitronome is obnoxious to parties, and since bombers are supposed to be team players people usually go for Barrage. Why those two? Great charge time, though the same as the shard bombs, but also good damage. Not DAvenger sword laser projectiles against a crowd of jigglers high damage, but pretty derping nice in a big honking area. They can be planted in rapid succession to chain explosive death all around you but have no after effect following detonation; which is where pretty much everything else in the bomb families get their advantages. Sure, you could derp around spamming a Nitronome, but if you use a Vaporizer instead you can deal a status to a large crowd. In fact, if you have more than one kind of Vaporizer or have someone else using a different one, you can inflict multiple statuses to a large group of enemies. Agni with Voltaic, Agni with Venom, Voltaic with Venom, Shivermist with Venom; preferably not Agni or Voltaic with Shivermist because the damage over time would thaw constantly. And fire is cancelled by freeze, vice versa. You can also take other kinds of bombs, like Graviton/Electron, to get a bunch of enemies in one space then plant a Vaporizer to inflict a status on them without worrying if they know how to avoid the cloud. The shard bombs are kind of alright sometimes, but unless you plan on spamming it like a lot of bombers like to do you are not going to get a particularly great result. There are a lot of varying bombing strategies. Someone is going to tell me I am the stupidest bomber in the universe, someone else is going to call it genius. No one wins in the end.
Anyway, the idea of an unpredictable multi-detonation weapon is fine, but with more multi and unpredictable involved. If we take the same idea of a cannon-mortar-thing-that-vomits-explosive-death-into-the-sky, but give it some variety in projectiles and thoroughly complicated functions, we can have something nice for a change.
First the charge mechanic. How long does the charge take before it completes if a standard bomb (Nitronome line, Barrage line, shard lines) have about a five second base charge time (about two seconds with +6 charge bonus), it would have to be slower to allow for greater offensive effect (at least six seconds base time, if not seven or eight). With what I have in mind right now we shall start with seven. Lucky seven.
How about that initial detonation radius? Is it going to be like the old shard bomb where it has a tiny radius, or big and obnoxious like a Nitronome? This is just the initial detonation before the nuggets are spat upward. I would give it two or three and relatively low damage for the first blast, seeing as the main attraction is what follows. With a slow fuse added onto that this thing is basically old Big Angry without the higher damage and a longer charge time, so it must be awful and useless, right?
This is the main event right here: what happens after initial detonation. Normally with a Barrage/Blast the bomb detonates and nothing else happens. With shard bombs the crystal pops and some little shiny boogers pop out and do a little dance. With Vaporizers a stinky cloud sits in a perfectly circular shape. With Electron and Graviton there is no explanation but it has something to do with space. What does this thing do? You already know. It makes the airstrike things. How many airstrikes? It can scale to the star rank and have a random amount (X to Y amount of airstrikes may occur; think of the old Brandish line charges where between one and five explosions would happen on the charge at 5*) but not all airstrikes are the same. You get at least one if not multiple of the following per deployed bomb of whatever this thing is:
- Standard
- 2 space blast radius
- deals normal damage to the area (100% base value)
- Status
- 1.5 space blast radius
- deals element damage to the area (50% base value) and inflicts a status (X chance to inflict Y degree of Z status)
- Knockback
- 1 space blast radius
- deals normal damage to the area (75% base value)
- pushes all enemies within the blast 2 spaces away
These are all for the 5*, previous ranks will have lower radii sizes and effects. For the 5* you can get up to three of these per bomb deployed and the ones that appear are random, so you can get any combination: three of the same, one of each, two of one kind and one of another, et cetera. Neither you or the enemy knows what is going to come out of that thing. The base damage value would have to be around 30-60% compared to Nitronome when scaled to the same star rating to counterbalance its potential value (if you hit with the initial blast and get three airstrikes, all three being the standard, that would be four hits; if they all hit the same target). Airstrikes would target randomly within a four space radius of the initial detonation but do not have the same damage or radius size. Movement speed while charging would take from Big Angry and suction bombs to prevent dropping and fleeing and to teach more bombers about the benefit of tactical planning over mindless spamming.
Keep everyone on their toes. Actually, that would still be too dangerous, so make them have to float above the floor if they see you coming around the corner. If they are already flying then the explosive death balls falling from the sky will help them be even more confused.
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 17:24
#14
In short: Friendly fire out, random projectiles in?
Alrighty then. I just thought it may be a nice drawback to nerf the cannon while also making it powerful.
And the whole random-projectile thing seems like a nice and fresh idea. I actually intended the bomb to be more damage-oriented than anything, but what you described here seems a bit more interesting and fun to use. It's basically a surprise bag. Only that it's a bomb.
I'll just go with everything else you say, simply because it's mainly bomber-stuff and you seem to b more experienced in that job as I am :3
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 17:40
#15
Really interesting concept.
Really interesting concept. Its kind of like the bombs that the twins periodically send out. I;m not too sure about the self damaging thing, but it could work. Would need alot of experience to master it though. All in all, nice idea, would definitely keep one of these in my arsenal.
~Magnicth
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 18:03
#16
+1
DELICOUS
Dom, 11/18/2012 - 13:40
#17
Ooh Ooh! I has an idear!
make multiple lines with different damage types.
Normal line: upward facing cannon/mortar. Shoots big rocks.
Elemental line: has dmg and status variations.
-fire line: volcano that shoots meteors.
-freeze line: [something] that shoots comets.
-shock line: Tesla Tower that calls down random lightning strikes.
-dmg line: cannon that shoots big balls of scrap metal.
Piercing line: [something else] that shoots swords. For added irony, make it shoot flourishes.
And please, no friendly fire.
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 00:25
#18
guys!
huge point here i do mean super huge. how do bomber, not hybrid bombers, i mean pure bombers fight missel puppies? i mean it has been a facte that tier 3 misself puppies are very agressive and dangerous. so again how do bomber fight a group of missel puppies like 5 at once or more? please i hope you have an answer, cause if no answer that means bombers cannot be naimed as a main weapon and that they are clearly a sub weapon groud design only for support.
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 00:34
#19
Who dug Blandaxt out from six feet under?
Have you been sputtering this same vomit on people the past couple days or are they being good sports about it?
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 00:42
#20
hmmm
you didnt answer my question, proves you dont know. so dont speak. :P
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 00:46
#21
Using only bombs I would orbit the rockets and use SSalt and/or any Vaporizer.
Because I learned how to do that from TF2.
How would you deal with five misselfs in a room? Necro a thread?
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 00:58
#22
hmm
i would also orbit them but using a nitronome and a heavy deconstructor (construct bonus). mhuhahahhuhaha. showed you. anyway again that is a very tricky way to beat the dam missels cause one mistake and u are dead. no buts or nuts about it.
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 12:15
#23
Showed me what? You can imitate whatever I say?
What the liquids do you think a missel is supposed to be?
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 13:58
#24
Cooperstown, ND
This is no Final Fantasy, boy, no Final Fantasy.
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 14:15
#25
Indeed, doesn't look like Final Fantasy
We don't have the power to shoot rocks in the air. It's not like the fact that you can casually create magical sword beams or the technology to transport a whole race of badass knights across the galaxy would suggest otherwise.
... so yeah, it's about as realistic as everything else in the game. Which means: Everything works as long as it's cool enough. What can be more awesome than allowing the poor undersupplied bombers to cause artificial natural disaster?
Besides that, the suggestion has been well received so far.
It seems perfectly fine with the whole game's theme.
Also, Final Fantasy did not trademark the idea of falling meteors.
So, could you specify what's wrong with it, besides resembling final fantasy a bit?
Lun, 11/19/2012 - 16:17
#26
hmm... falling meteors... where's that from?
-armageddon
-apparently FF (never played)
-pokémon (draco meteor)
-65 million years ago
-the freaking NIGHT SKY
...Do you get my point yet? Just because an idea exists doesn't mean it's copying everything else in the known universe. "derp, game has cubes, is copy of minecraft", "derp, game is FPS, is ripoff of CoD", "derp, SK is isometric dungeon crawler, SK is ripoff of Diablo". /facepalm
...Sorry, I get rant-y about that kind of thing. :P
...and Bland+Lug, stay on topic plz :)
...and what do you guys think about my idea?
...
...I should stop talking now.
Bye :)
<(^_^)>
Did I do anything wrong that causes all my threads to be ignored like that until the first bump(save for Luguiru, who seems to post on anything he finds anyway)?
Well anyway. I don't even want a positive review. You can point all flaws out and rant on it, so long as you stay constructive. I just want some feedback...
So... I'll bump it so I at least make sure someone actually SAW it to begin with.