Spiral Knights - Dare I say it...pets?

Dare I say it...pets?

120 replies [Last post]

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 16:21

Autofire

NOTE: any of the most recent changes have the change date and are marked in bold.

Yep, pets....pets? Who wants pets? Everyone hates them, right? RIGHT?

Apparently not because all the new people (and some old) come around asking for pets, and they always get turned down. I'm going to try to come up with a thread/idea that can solve it, once and for all. Something that a large majority can actually agree on that won't screw over the market or something. Something that can be linked to on the next 1-minute-to-make threads. Something complete and with a solid ground that isn't OP nor UP.

01/26/13: Battle Sprites Reply: Even with Battle Sprites being announced, I'm going to keep this thread going. I need to mention Snipes somewhere, right?

Keep in mind that I'm willing to change a pretty darn lot of this stuff. I want it to be something that is agreed on, so I'll change it when I get a reasonable request. Also keep in mind that I'm not 100% for pets, but more just making a solution to the never-ending suggestion for them.

What are pets?
Little (sometimes adorable) creatures that follow you around as you travel through the clockworks. They preform various services, such as attacking for you, taking hits, healing, and grabbing items. To bring them, you would equip them in a trinket slot. For each monster family, there is one pet, including a neutral type. (Snipe, perhaps?)

They have various stats, but always have one global stat, called stamina. It would be shown by a heart meter, sorta like what you see on shields. This stamina runs down with every hit taken and every action done. (Not including moving) Some pets (such as Silkwings) have little stamina, making them frail and unable to go into action often. (Keeping them from being OP) Upon running out, they hibernate, and become unusable until you feed them.

How would I acquire pets?
From tokens most likely. You see, there are currently 7 different tokens. 4 from bosses and 3 from treasure boxes. Snarby's tokens would get you a beast type, a Vana's would get you an undead type. You can trade in tokens for eggs, (or their equivalents) which require heat to hatch. To heat them, you must equip the egg in a trinket slot. Upon fully heating, you can hatch it. To hatch, either you would have to right click on the egg, or, more likely, talk to an NPC. (Which NPC, you ask? Nonna, of course!)

Furthermore, when acquiring a pet, you can give it a unique name, which everyone can see when they inspect you.

Stamina? What's that?
Glad you asked. Like I said before, a pet uses some stamina when it does any action and when it gets hit. You can raise this stat by feeding them, (see below) which you can only do in town type areas. When your pet runs out of stamina, he/she/it enters a hibernation state and won't wake up until fed.

How and what would I feed a pet?
Materials! This would also solve the issue of endless materials, causing a more constant use. Depending on the pet, some materials couldn't be fed to it. For example, a construct type would take bronze bolts, scrap metal, and the like. (This would be more like "repairing" it.) The higher the star level, the more it gets fed.

Further more, you can craft better food that would be more tasty and filling. Of course, you need a recipe to make some food. These recipes would either be sold by Nonna or Vatel. (Nonna would make more sense.) These recipes would cycle. The higher star level the mat has, the more stamina it provides.

01/26/13: Feeding can be done anywhere you can change your equipment. This means Haven, Arsenal Stations, Moorcroft, Emberlight, etc.

01/26/13: What about bosses? If I can't feed my pet, won't it run out of Stamina?
This is true. There are two ways to fix it, but I'm listing the better of the two because the other one is quite complicated. :P The solution would be a new "Feeding Station", which would only allow you to feed your pet, but nothing else. This would be for any level without an arsenal station.

How do I use a pet?
Pets must be equipped to a trinket slot. If you have several pets, only one may be equipped. (To the first slot) The commands would utilize the same emotes that already exist. 01/26/13: ALL of these emotes also have buttons assigned to them, usually on the numpad. These assignments can already be modified by scrolling to the bottom of the control changing tab. The emotes are:

/attack
Attacks any near target. This varies from pet to pet, and may not always be an attack. (Like in the case of a silkwing)
/fallback
Retreats to your side and refuses to attack, even if provoked. While under this command, a pet will also try to avoid getting hurt by moving in an area loosely away from you to keep a distance from what's trying to hurt it. (In the case of a wolver, it would also try to sidestep projectiles.)

/helpme
The pet stays at the owners side and then reacts whenever the owner is injured or if an enemy gets close. (Depending on the pet, it may attack even if your shield took damage.) Some pets react differently, such as trying to draw the attention of the enemies.

/wait
Your pet will stay in place and won't move under any circumstances. Even if you get a good distance away, it will still stay in place. (Rather then warp to you, like knights and mechaknights. The only exception to this is when you step on a party button. When you do this they warp to you no matter what.)

/follow OR /ready
Would follow you, but would only attack when convenient. This deactivates /wait. By default, the pet is doing this.

/come
The pet would drop whatever it is doing and come to you. As soon as the pet is with you, it resumes whatever it was doing last. If the pet is far enough away, it will warp to you.

How do I tell what state a pet is in?
Whenever given a command, they get a ring round them sorta like when your shield just regenerated. This has the same colors as a shield, and changes based on how much stamina they have left. Whenever it is critically low, it pulses red every ten seconds or so.

Would I be stuck with the same pet? Would it level up?
As a matter of fact, yes it would level up. (EDIT)A machine that you would go to, called the Incarnation Machine, is used to "craft" the pet up. A level 10 pet is needed to upgrade it. Pets would start from 0 star as an egg, and then becomes 1 star after hatching. After one incarnation, it becomes 3 star, then after another it becomes 5 star. (Unless it should be from 1* to 5*. The idea, though, is to have one for each tier.)

The result wouldn't be known. Depending on what is fed, the pet may get a status, or no status at all. Status-less pets have some sort of boost on them to keep them under powered. Pets could be Fire, Shock, Freeze, or Poison. Not only will the pet be able to deal the status it has, it will also be resistant to it. Monsters of the neutral status may eat any food that can be given to that pet type, but status pets may only eat neutral food as well as status based food. (See below)

Would pets be trade-able?
No. They couldn't even be unbound. The only way to get rid of a pet is to give it to Nonna for adoption. (Okay fine, that kills it. If it really was given to other people, it would start being like "WTB a wolver!" rather then "I'm going to raise a wolver". Making it so you have to raise it makes it harder to obtain, as well as more rewarding.)

What is the food and what is recipes that go with them?
Most of this I'll be making as I go. Anything you see that is in bold is a special material bought from the lab/Nonna/etc.

1* Beast Biscuit: Made from Green Shards, Gel Drops, and Bread Dough
3* Better Biscuit: Made from Green Shards, Gel Drops, a Brute Core, and Expertly-Made Dough
3* Best Biscuit: Made from Green Shards, Gel Drops, Brute Cores, a Royal Core and Perfectionist's Dough (Insert Pinkie-Pie reference in the Dough's description!! :P).

Enough already! What kinds of pets are there!?
Sorry...I was stalling...no, not really! I wanted to roll everything out before starting on this. I'm thinking (at least at first) their would be 7 kinds of pets. One for each family, and a neutral one. During events such as the Caketastrophy and the DarkHarvest festival, more event type pets could possibly be available. Let's get to it, shall we?

(According to this, 100 STM(stamina) is equal to 1 pip of HP. All of these stats are for when the heat level is maxed. A food item which is in bold will have double the effect of normal foods of that star level. Special food is for all monsters of that family or type. They are always crafted.)

BEAST: Wolver
- Pre-pet: Newborn Wolver
  - Description: a young wolver who has recently come into the world.
  - To obtain: give 15 Frumious Fangs to Nonna.
- First Incarnation: Wolver Pup
  - Description: A spry wolver who has got a knack for fighting. It doesn't have a lot of training yet, so be careful when you feed it!
  - Visual: A T1 wolver. Could possibly have a ribbon around its neck, ears, and/or tail which would match the owner's PC.
  - STM: 550
  - Moves:
    - Bite: deals about 28-30 damage in Stratum 2 against gremlins and undead. (Expends 2 STM, for 275 bites without taking a hit)
  - To obtain: Grow a fully leveled Newborn Wolver. This requires The Lab's Incarnation machine, 10 energy, and various 0-1* beast related mats.
  - Mats which can be fed:
    - Neutral: Green Shard, Red Shard, Gel Drop, Sharp Fang, Beast Scale, Beast Biscuit, Enamorock, Critter Carapace, Gel Core
    - Fire: Blast Powder
    - Freeze: Frost Gel
    - Poison: Nightshade
    - Shock: Static Clinger
- Second Incarnation: Wolver/Ash Tail/Frostifur/Voltail/Rabid Wolver
  - Description: A wolver who has had some time to grow, as well as some battle experience. It has mostly gotten over biting the hand which feeds it, but caution is still recommended. (After this part, there would be another sentence or two. What they are would depend on the specific wolver type.)
  - Visual: T2 wolver. Would have a collar which matches the owner's PC.
  - STM: 1200 (01/26/13: Status-less Wolver has 1400 Stamina)
  - Moves:
    - Bite: bites for about 70 damage in Stratum 4 against gremlins and undead. (Expends 3 STM for 400 bites without taking a hit)
    - Jump: jumps swiftly in a direction, either to escape or to move in for the kill. (Expends 1 STM for 1200 jumps without taking a hit)
  - To obtain: Grow a fully leveled Young Wolver. The result varies depending on what was fed. Would take 200 energy, and various 0-3* beast mats.
  - Mats which can be fed:
    - Neutral: Green Shard, Red Shard, Gel Drop, Sharp Fang*, Beast Scale, Beast Biscuit, Enamorock, Critter Carapace, Gel Core, Bushy Tail(?), Drake Scale, Brute Core, Better Biscuit, Warp Dust, Rocky Core
    - Fire: Blast Powder, Torchstone, Blaze Pepper
    - Freeze: Frost Gel, Hailstone, Perfect Snowball
    - Poison: Nightshade, Toxic Core, Corrosive Acid
    - Shock: Static Clinger, Volt Oil, Thunderball
    - 01/26/13: ALTERNATE: Nightmare Mane (Forces alternate incarnation no matter what else has been fed; drops Stamina to 0 when fed.)
- Third Incarnation: Alpha Wolver/Alpha Ash Tail/Alpha Frostifur/Alpha Voltail/Rabid Alpha Wolver
  - Description: A full grown Wolver with the power to tackle a tree. He won't bite his owner as long as he likes whats fed to him. (After this part, there would be another sentence or two. What they are would depend on the specific wolver type.)
  - Visual: T3 alpha wolver with a spiked collar on its neck. The collar would match the owner's PC.
  - STM: 2,000 (Status-less Alpha Wolver has 2,400 Stamina)
  - Moves:
    - Triple Bite: bites 3 times for 70(210 altogether) damage in Stratum 6 against gremlins and undead. (Expends 4 STM for 500 sets of 3, assuming no hits are taken.)
    - Jump: jumps swiftly in a direction, either to escape or to move in for the kill. (Expends 1 STM for 2,000 jumps, max)
    - Burrow: tunnels swiftly to gain a better position, to escape from being surrounded, or to follow after its owner. (Expends 2 STM for 1000 Burrows, max.)
    - War Howl/Bark: gives a low (med on the Status-less Wolver) attack damage increase on all weapons of all friendlies in a small radious for a short time. (Expends 10 STM for 200 uses.)
  - To obtain: Grow a fully leveled Wolver. The result varies depending on what was fed. Would take 800 energy, and various 0-5* beast mats.
  - Mats which can be fed:
    - Neutral: Green Shard, Red Shard, Gel Drop, Sharp Fang*, Beast Scale, Beast Biscuit, Enamorock, Critter Carapace, Gel Core, Bushy Tail(?), Drake Scale, Brute Core, Better Biscuit, Warp Dust, Rocky Core, Royal Core, Dragon Scale, Best Biscuit
    - Fire: Blast Powder, Torchstone, Blaze Pepper, Flame Soul
    - Freeze: Frost Gel, Hailstone, Perfect Snowball, Everfrost
    - Poison: Nightshade, Toxic Core, Corrosive Acid, Plague Essence
    - Shock: Static Clinger, Volt Oil, Thunderball, Spark of Life
- Alternate Incarnation: Cursed Snarboson
  - Description: After snarfing down a piece of the remains from the Snarbolax, this wolver has been drained of the power, and is now as jet-black as the dreaded beast itself. Its bite has been known to remove the victim's hand, his sight, and his sanity.
  - Visual: About the size of a normal T3 wolver. Would be completely black with glowing red fangs, eyes, and the tip of the tail. The fir would bristle and be tipped red in places.
  - STM: 1,800
  - Moves:
    - Bite: bites for about 180 damage in Stratum 6 against gremlins and undead. (Expends 4 STM for 450 bites, assuming no hits are taken.)
    - Burrow: tunnels swiftly to gain a better position, to escape from being surrounded, or to follow after its owner. (Expends 1 STM for 1,800 Burrows, max.)
    - Black Barbs: when hit with a strong attack, will scatter quills like in the boss fight. (Expends 0 STM because it is a reaction skill)
    - Shadow Repulsion: strengthens shadow fur to take half damage. Any nearby enemies would be given a shield-bump. Activates before fighting large groups. (Expends 2 STM every 1 seconds.)
  - To obtain: Grow a fully leveled Wolver and feed a Nightmare Mane to it during growth. Would take 800 energy, and various 0-5* beast mats.
  - Mats which can be fed:
    - Neutral: Green Shard, Red Shard, Gel Drop, Sharp Fang*, Beast Scale, Beast Biscuit, Enamorock, Critter Carapace, Gel Core, Bushy Tail(?), Drake Scale, Brute Core, Better Biscuit, Warp Dust, Rocky Core, Royal Core, Dragon Scale, Best Biscuit

Tell me what you think, please! I'd prefer constructive pointers over mindless rage, though, so please put a thought into it before posting. I'll be updating often, but I'm sorry if I'm slow to do so. :P

Oh, and question time: I just added the second incarnation. So what do you guys think should be done for the "Able to be fed this and this..." sections? Should I say "This builds off the previous incarnations' list" or should I list it all again as I've done?

Update log:

01/26/13: Added Battle Sprite Reply. Changed feeding. Clarified that you can change the emote keybinds and that they are all key-bound. Added idea for feeding stations in levels without arsenal stations. Renamed "Young Wolver" to "Wolver Pup". Tightened up Wolver Pup. Changed the Status-less Wolver to have 1400 STM instead of 1200. Added alternate feeding line for normal Wolvers. Added Alpha Wolvers. Added Snarboson. Added visual descriptions. Changed Better Bread recipie a tad, and added Best Biscuit.NOTE: from now on, any of the most recent changes have the change date and are in bold. I'm specifying this up above.

01/16/13: Changed description for wolver. (Don't worry, more changes are to come!)

11/29/12: Added the "Food & Their Recipes" section. Fixed some typos and other mistakes. Added second wolver incarnation.

11/22/12: Cleaned up some stuff. Removed stat changing that used to go along with the pet's status. Changed name of the first wolver incarnation from "Wolver Egg" to "Newborn Wolver" and the second incarnation from "Newborn Wolver" to "Young Wolver." Also changed descriptions. Filled out more of the "Young Wolver" info.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 16:28

Spooky-Nights

Great Idea

Its a lot more fleshed out, compared to other posts on this matter. Seems like this idea is pretty agreeable and I want to see how the others will react to this.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 16:51

Aizuh

I don't believe it is pets

Look more closely around the Garrison's Lab. what else do you see perhaps equipment to the right side of one of the knights standing at the entrance? maybe a weapons upgrade place to me.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 17:30

Psychodestroyer

Wow, I am strangely OK with this idea.

Also requesting constructive discussion.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 17:49

Chaosengineer

Most of what's been suggested

Most of what's been suggested here seems pretty solid, but i don't really agree with introducing equipment-based healing of any sort into the game.

We can assume that pets will be usable in lockdown, where healing abilities would undermine the guardian shield and may produce other balance issues. In the PvE game, healing seems to already generally be common enough for most players to get by with, and more probably isn't necessary.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 17:56

Autofire

I was going to mention that:

pets shouldn't be allowed in LD, just like shields aren't. That would cause issues, such as the one that Chaos mentioned, as well as pets showing where recons are and lagging waaay behind from strikers. (Causing them to get annihilated by some guy who finds it.)

Also, like I said, silkwings (though this could be removed altogether) would have very limited stamina. They would be quick, short burst of healing then they wouldn't be able to do much more. Either that, and/or enemies would focus much more on it so that it would have to be protected.

It's almost like they give up their own HP (which you raise using mats) to heal you. I haven't included this yet, but I'm thinking of saying to be able to tell your pet what to do, as well as ask them to automatically react or not.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 18:17

Chaosengineer

I don't know if it would make

I don't know if it would make sense to restrict pets from lockdown, though, as they're trinkets. Doing so would make them the only restricted equipment in lockdown aside from shields, which are restricted for fairly obvious reasons.

I also notice that you seem to be suggesting that monsters are capable of focusing on pets in order to attack them. In my opinion, having an NPC character that is capable of dealing any knockback or status to an enemy, or is even capable of catching an enemy's aggro would be very annoying. (As evidenced by the general disuse and/or dislike of mecha knights and NPC knights.) I, as a person who primarily uses bombs, prefer that monsters are positioned somewhat predictably, and find things easier if their aggro is focused on the same general area.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 18:48

Autofire

Okay, thanks for the info

That is why some pets would try to keep the agro from getting to them. This would especially be the case when /fallback is used. Also, some pets like wolvers would do no knock back at all.

EDIT: this does make a challenge though. When a pet is told to draw attention, maybe it could be particularly careful to bring enemies into the blast radius, sorta helping to guide enemies into your bombs.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:46

Bronx-The-Slayer

My own little idea's

Depending on the pet, if its like a beast, take a bear for example. It can have a helmet or some armor on it, Depending on what it is, to help boost its stamina strength like a different shield does, Except this could has 2 variations, So that say a beast type (don't know its weakness im only a 5-2 atm) Could become resistant against it and then is neutral against all 7 other pets

And that The Pets have tiers and like An Arena they can battle where you control them like a player and they all have a different attack style and defense style variation on the armor, the weight, everything, (( Note: I don't think anyone will agree with this but its just my idea and i want it to help make a difference to helping the game)

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:08

Autofire

Haha!

That's good, though. You aren't afraid to share your idea, despite knowing it may not be liked. Normally, people frown on that, but I think it's good. Even if most of the idea is bad, parts of it can still be kept or changed slightly, or it may lead to inspiration.

I was thinking of having an arena, actually. If pets aren't going to be allowed in LD, why not have a PVP for pets? There could be two teams, and each person has their own pet. They pit their pets against the other team, and the only method of control is what you can tell them to do. (Ok, maybe this is sounding too much like Pokemon. XD)

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:10

#10

Persef

I ussualy disagree with this stuff but...

with a very detailed (and actually makes sense) description... +1

"AdD efFiNg PeTs t0 th!5 efFiNg GaYM!!!!"
- An accurate quote on how others suggest this.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 01:05

#11

Kimahsonite

There was some stuff in

There was some stuff in Spiral Spy which, I'm entirely sure, are pets. They got removed from the files before the Guild Hall update so don't bother yourself finding it.

I don't want to get another warning in-game about posting spoilers on the forum, so if you want, mail 'Kimahsonite' for all the information about these pets.

As for this actual thread, I would prefer hatching and raising pets instead of what I predict will actually happen with the to-be-released pets. :'( It seems OOO has other plans though.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:10

#12

All-Star-Gamer

I like it

It's a +1 for me
Also it may help if there were more ideas for pets such as a mini-robot or a gremlin child, but the only problem with that is what if you get confused and try to start fighting your pet. There would have to be a large enough difference in between the pet or companion and the enemy. Also a good idea would be when you hatch pets they could have variants such as: (chance of causing MAJOR FIRE: high) for a flaming snipe or something.
Then there is also what almost all pet freaks want: PET COSMETICS, you don't need them but it would also help with determining between pet and enemy.
Despite what others say it's a +1000 for me.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:17

#13

Vtipoman

One big +1 from me. :)

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:09

#14

Canine-Vladmir

WOW.

what a comeback. this was like getting out of the friend zone. unbelievable.
im forced to put a
+1
and where do you get and level up your pet? in the Lab of course! Trolly xD
anyway. Luguiri hasnt been here yet and if we know anything about him, he can burn ANY thread to the ground.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:21

#15

Autofire

@All-Star-Gamer

That's a good point you raise. I'm thinking pets could be given accessories, but would also have some different features, such as a ribbon round their neck or head that matches your PC(Personal Color), as well as showing up on the map. (Probably as a triangle with your color)

@Everyone else

I am amazed that you actually like this thread. I'm going to say that I haven't finished it yet, but I'm happy you like it so far. About Luigi not being here, I think it's because he said he wouldn't look at pet threads anymore. If someone wants to, go ahead and link him to here. XD

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 13:11

#16

Psychodestroyer

You're not out of the woods yet, more 'regulars' like me haven't posted yet. I'm not so sure how they'll take this...

In any case, I'm still a bit iffy on the Silkwing idea, no matter how underpowered it is. Didn't OOO say something about no healing outside of Pads, items, hearts and Lovepuppies?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 15:12

#17

Autofire

I know I'm not out of it yet

I'm just surprised I got any support at all. And that's true. Silkwings, if they do heal, could have it as a side ability. They might only do it when you are hurt enough. (Maybe their main thing would be drawing attention and/or curing statuses.) If it's really limited it may not be so bad.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 15:23

#18

Psychodestroyer

At best I would recommend it as being like a 'Final Stand' effect. Die, and the Silkwing will bring you back with a pip or two. Nothing much, but enough to let you live for another few seconds. (also after that, the 'Last stand' effect no longer works. The one where you tank damage with only a pip remaining?)

Having it heal you by just a bit at any other time would be somewhat useless, considering if you were high, you could just kill something and get hearts, and if you were low, the extra health would be depleted by the damage you're taking anyway.

Having it heal larger amounts is what people DON'T want, because that would me it a 'worthwhile healing pet'.

What I think anyway.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 15:50

#19

Msaad

Brilliant

Fantastique, tres bien. +1

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:31

#20

Severage

...

Looks like everyone is cautiously agreeing, waiting to see what others think.

Lockdown:

I don't see LD as a problem at all, despite what others may think. It potentially replaces a Penta, which is likely much more powerful than using a pet. In fact, I'll be rather surprised if anyone who has pentas uses pets in LD.

Healing:

I'm pretty much with the others on this. There are no numbers to it yet, so it could be overpowered or underpowered. If you had numbers, like X Pips : X Stamina usage, it'd be easier to agree/disagree with. Still, as a general rule of thumb, healing can be both unnecessary and/or overpowered.

I find no flaws in the way you get, "recharge", or dispose of pets.

However, in future pets, please do keep in mind LD and stuff. Suggesting pets that throw little cloud-status bombs would be really annoying in PvP if not balanced correctly (Or even added at all).

~Sev

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:20

#21

Luguiru

I was going to wait for someone to spell my name right but since that is unlikely to happen this year I am going to respond anyway. Been writing some Wakfu ideas and most of them are either brutally violent or disturbing. That means they are probably going to work.

From your description these seem to be trinkets, which is great. Addresses how you equip them. But unlike most trinkets we already have, you have to go through the obnoxious crafting system to upgrade them. Upgrading an animal sounds weird. A more likely application would have mechanical versions of whatever they are supposed to replicate, like a robot butterfly-moth-Silkwing instead of a normal one; otherwise they would look the same as our enemies and people would be trying to kill their own pets. Not like that never happens in reality. That was too dark even for me.

Assuming these pet-robot-things are equipped as trinkets which have alchemy paths, we need to go over how crafting would work. Would we need recipes? Would they be like health trinkets where a standard alchemy machine has all the recipes and all we need to do is get certain rare materials, like a special jelly related thing from Jelly King to make some kind of jelly pet? Why would a Wolver hatch from an egg when those fuzzy little boogers are obviously mammals, though Pokemon has proven that irrelevant? Are we going to pull a Pokemon on this? If they have alchemy paths, would UVs be involved or would they stay as trinkets are with no possible UVs? Since there would obviously be a variety in what pets are available, would they have defenses and damage types relevant to their species or would they do whatever you want?

I can write pages upon novels of questions on everything possibly imaginable, but before the dam breaks I have a cup of water to ask: would whatever these pets do simply have vague benefits, like a medic-Silkwing pet healing you infinitely over time with no penalty? Or would it have to get that health from somewhere, like taking some health from you (and hearts if you happen to have full health but encounter them and walk over the hearts anyway) and simply storing it for later use on the butterfly-moth? Would their effects be pulled from between their tiny butt cheeks or would you have to earn the benefits and the pet is simply a pet and not something to hide behind?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 18:01

#22

Chaosengineer

I do sort of like the idea of

I do sort of like the idea of pets providing players with a way to retrieve items that are trapped within brambles or status traps or other such persistent hazards...

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 22:50

#23

Autofire

@Luguiru

Oh, thanks for replying. As a matter of fact, a lot of the questions which you have asked are going to be answered. I just haven't had time to work on it, and this is actually a pretty large suggestion.

Like I said, I haven't thought out silkwings entirely. Being pets in a lot of things are more innocent, helpless creatures, silkwings fit the role for fiends. If things don't work out, I'll swap it with greavers. A thing to keep in mind is that possibly most silkwings wouldn't even heal much. Their main ability would be to cure status rather then heal you. With a limited stamina pool, you'd also have to make sure to tell them to hold off most of the time. Why would you ever get pills anymore? The silkwing (like other pets) runs out of stamina when getting hit. It'll die quickly if left alone, so it must be protected heavily.

@Chaosengineer

MIND READER!!! I was going to make snipes do that!

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 22:59

#24

Dancinjen

I'm sorry but I still can't

I'm sorry but I still can't say that pets would be a good thing in the game, especially if they can go on runs with you and even help provide any sort of damage or enhancement to the knights. I just can't. You've provided a very well thought out post and I've read it all... and I still don't like it.

What's going to make them following me around, or being excess on my screen from other players, have any less delay than those knights that follow you around in missions? Every time I get too far ahead of them and they have to appear back on the screen I have about a one or two second delay. I have this problem with any sort of stuff that pop ups on the screen. I know I'm not the only person that has this problem.

I like the pocket pets, even though they are ugly. I wish they had made them more cosmetic appealing. But I mean the concept of them being an accessory that's attached to you and has its own animation is fine with me. I can handle this. Just not anything that follows and especially if it's doing any sort of helping on runs and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY in lockdown. pets should NOT be allowed in lockdown.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 22:55

#25

Autofire

@Dancinjen

I agree. Like I said, I am not entirely behind this myself, but I'm trying for a definitive thread that can put others to rest if the topic comes up again.

Also, no LD pets. I pointed out before that it would become highly disruptive. They would lag behind, draw attention, and give away recons.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:16

#26

Blandaxt

im thinking

1. heat: you mentioned that heat allows the egg to hatch. i thouht it was a great idea. but what im concern about is how does heat affect the pet after it is hatch. does it help it in anyway or does it have no effect on it after it is hatch?

2. also, you mentioned, untill the pet is fed it cannot return from its hibernation phase, so i am thinking can i feed my pet in the begining of a level where i can equip my weapons or do i have to wait till i reach terminal or do i have to wait till i go back to haven to be able to feed it.

3. i like the idea that what you feed it determines its status ability, but i dont like that the pet retains the same ability of that of normal monsters and that it will look so closely to normal monsters. so i sugest a whole revamp on the pets move and a significant way to be able to distinguish them from normal monsters.

4.one more thing, i would not like or my pet to be fighting a monster halway across the level i am by itself, so i sugest that there is a max amount of spaces it can seperate from me. so for example, if i am 15 to 20 spaces from the pet, it will stop all that it was doing wether it was wait or whatever other command, and walk or warp to my location.

5. another thing, i would like a way to withdraw my pet from the field liek a pokeball from pokemon (i am only refering to pokemon as to have a similar funtion taht realates to how the pokeball in teh game pokemon functions, not to steal their brand and add it to sk). basically be able to unleash my pet to battle on the field and be able to withdraw it from the field.. so basicaly i would click on teh trinket after pressing p, to unleash it and clcik on the trinket again would wiithdraw back onto that trinket slot. (that way i can save my pt for a boss fight like vana)

6. another thing, what happens if my pet is stuck behind an object like a gate switch after i have commanded it to come to me, would it warp or wait till i open the gate like the mecha knights?

7. is there a way i can make my pet walk around in haven like areas such as guild hall, bazaar, arcade ect.. with me or is that impossible?

8. i sugest the pet system be prohibited in ld. ld is its own game, and i dont think teh pet system would fit there.

9. about feeding my pet using materials, when i make a high level food for example using only 5 star items, does it have a greater impact on my pets stats?

10. is the stamina for my pet taking damage and the stamina for my pet attacking different or the same? if there the same, wouldn't that restrict the amount of attacks my pet can do by a great amounnt? is that what you intended to happen, sense a pet falls under the supporting roll?

11. is there a way pet accessories can be gained from a box or monster drop like how the heart turret drops the rare 5 star heart pendant? basically monsters similar to your pet would drop accesories meant for that pet type.

12. some pets i feel should not be viable like the healing gremlin or phantoms? what do you think?

13. ill stop here. how about pet auras, can we also put that in teh accessory catagory?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:18

#27

Luguiru

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:18

#28

Severage

A couple other things...

Just some extra stuff that I didn't append to my 1st reply...

1. I think you're missing a perfect opportunity for a large crown sink here. Tokens may be exclusive to "Boss Pets" which could have different perks, but Nonna or another NPC having pets for a crown sink might be nice.

2. When the Mission System came out, many people complained about the inefficient, faultily-programmed, slow, pathetically weak Knights that you rescued from the Clockworks. Pets would have to work better, and have better programming, otherwise people would get annoyed with it. While pets sound appealing, if they're utterly useless like the Mission Knights then few would bother.

3. I also think that pets would have to be uniquely-colored or have some other distinct/obvious difference betwixt them and normal mobs. If you had a purple devilite follow you around, it'd easily get confused in the fog of war with an enemy. It could cause you to react differently than you normally would, or dodge your own pet's attacks, that could put you in danger of other enemy attacks.

Still +-0 on this idea atm...best attempt yet though.

~Sev

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:42

#29

Blandaxt

lug

@luguri

heat: does heat only affect the health and defense of the pet? what about increasing its attack value if it has an attack ability? does the pet need a lot of heat to reach it 10 level cap or is the amount of heat it needs similar to the weapons/armor we carry. example. 2* pet would have equal amount of heat it needs as a 2* armor/weapon.

crafting: about crafting, the original pet mentioned that we could craft food for the pet that we would use to wake it up after it dies. do you keep to this original idea or do u want us to feed it the normal raw mats we obtain through the clockwork? i like that it can only get uv through crafting, but i dont like that it can only have 1 uv sense it usability seem so similar to that of a weapon and not too similar to a normal trinket. so i think it should be allowed for pets to have 3 uvs.

uVs: about the uvs themselves, there should be a limited amount of uvs taht a pet can get, like attack speed increase, or a high defemse to another status. about getting the uvs themselvs, they chance to get a uv with a pet should be a lot higher then that of a wepon because the uvs are only obtainable through crafting. sense crafting cost hunderd of mats, i would not be used often by free to play players. so i think the chance to get a uv be 60% that way players can remove uvs that taht player would not want and not have to worry if he/she will ever get another uv for his/her pet.

neutral: in you post about the monsters having one status that in can inflict while being very weak to the another status, i think you forgot to include pets that are neutral. if a pet grows to 5 star and only has normal attacks, then i dont think it should have a status weakness. also, what is an opposite status of the inflictable status in sk. i understand that fire status inflicting pet would have an ice weakness ice, but what about shock, sleep (dont think sleep counts).you said to exclude stun (i know its not a normal status, but i think neutral pets should be able to inflict it and resist it due to the fact they have only normal defense also), i understand that curse should be excluded sense the only monsters in sk that can inflict curse is a phantom, dreadnaught or sl vana boss monster so i agree with you there.

turrets should be prohibited: i think anykinf of turret like pet should be prohibited due to the fact pets have to follow behind the player and not just be a deployable missel like tool. so that way the amount of pets that is available decreases. some more prohibited pets are phantoms, void pets, and those jelly like turrets.

boost items for pets: i agree that pets should have some boost items lie being a able to equip a trinket on a pet that stay permanantly attached to that pet and the only way to remove it is to destroy it. it would work just liek the accessory system, so instead of being able to unbound it, you will have to destroy it to be able to equip a new one. also this pet trinket should not deactivate every 30 months, instead why not make it by a 3 month basis (all up to OOO).

withdraw and unleash: back in my old post i sugested that we be able to withdraw out pet our unleash them unto the battlefield. what do you think of this idea?

all pets have 10 maximum stamina? does that mean some pets stamina decrease less then some other pets? does this also mean that a single action a pet does does not actually take one out of that 10 stamina bar limit because its stamina decreases at a lower pace then another pet? does this also mean we cant increase the pets stamina? an esample is if a wolver bites versus a silkwing using its healing ability (i know it doesnt come out of think air.)

i dont like the feeding every time idea just because that would mean i will have to be online everysingle day. i wont be able to with real world issues, so i rather it not be taht i have to log in everyday just to feed my pet to keep its stamina or stats up. i rather it be changed to feeding it wrong things would decrease it. i do like if we neglect to feed it, its stats would decrease, but this time should not count while we are logged off. online time only should be counted.

traps should not work on pets, just like it doesnt work on helper knights. i like the silkwing idea, didn't like how you described it "vomiting".

health versus stamina. with your health idea, it means all pets are very fragile. so i sugest in response to them being so fragile, there stamina should increase to the point that you can make full run with it and not have that it can only do 10 sets of attacks then go back to its hibernation. i think each action takes 1 out of the 10 stamina limit bar right, so if theres only 10 stamina, it means the pet can only do 10 set of action throughout a full clockwork run from example depth 19 to 27. i think that is too limited and there should be a rule that the pets stamina resets every time the player enters a new level.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 11:30

#30

Vtipoman

So... who is think this is

So... who is think this is cool?
Meee!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:18

#31

Luguiru

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:21

#32

Autofire

While I am too busy to give any straight replies...

...to all your long posts, I'm going to say that I will not respond in any way to Luigi's posts if they have such disgusting ways to describe what a silkwing does. Thank you for keeping future posts clean. (EDIT: to clarify, this is for this thread. Not pointing at any individual person or anything.)

Wait...I can never remember your name. I always think "Luigi" when it's something like "Luguiru" or something. Sorry! (That's why I gave myself an easy name to remember and type.)

EDIT: another thing: pets are like monsters. They have NO resistance. They simply take double damage to what they are weak to, half damage to what they are strong to, and normal to what they are neutral to. To compensate, they have a large pool of stamina, just like monsters do. This is to simplify things up a large amount.

When I thought of including the stat change for each status, the point was to have a answer to UVs, because I was thinking pets couldn't get their own UVs. I'm rather neutral on the idea of having it start from 2* all the way up to 5*, but I know for a fact that crafting pets straight won't work, as well as buying them outright. Think: crafting pets would make an even bigger mat sink then it already does. You are always having to feed pets, so that in itself is a massive, constant sink. The tokens are because you must play to get tokens and can't trade them. To be a pet owner, you must have played for some time.

EDIT2: Either Luguiru(I remembered your name! I think...) has removed his posts or a GM has. I don't know which, but I think it is odd.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:19

#33

Luguiru

Fine.

See if I care about other threads anymore.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:20

#34

Autofire

Well, coincidence?

I'm sorry, but I say that because I have a very light stomach and I really was going to loose it reading that.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:22

#35

Luguiru

If an admin took them down they would have replaced it with their own comments.

The only "disgusting" part was a Silkwing vomiting hearts in your face. How gut churning.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 08:24

#36

Autofire

...That wasn't all....

You had more stuff in the previous post too. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I thought there was more in the second one.

Whatever the case, if you wish to stop talking about pets, go ahead. I was looking forward to discussing this with other forum regulars, especially you, being you have done many, many suggestions in the past. (I think...or was it rate/berate them?)

EDIT: to clarify (though I doubt anyone will read this), I have this weird thing of over thinking how these things would look. When you do that, things seem 10 times more disgusting then they are. I have this odd sensitivity IRL. (I first found out about this on a Halloween. >.>)

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 18:56

#37

Autofire

REVIVE

(Still working on it. I won't let this die 'til I'm done.)

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 22:07

#38

Persef

Please hurry up.

I hate waiting.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 07:54

#39

Killkoek

pets

i really really like this and i hope it will be there one day.
1.but shouldn't pets as well follow you in haven?
2.and recipes do they have to be bought or will they be in the machine?

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 08:07

#40

Autofire

Replys!

Heat would increase their stats altogether. Maybe some stats wouldn't change and maybe some would only get changed at levels 5 and 10. I don't have all the damage charts and tables that the Dev Team has, so I can't balance any of this too well.

I changed it up there. IMO, no, only in the subtown like areas, but it's up to the feedback to decide.

I haven't gone over this yet, but I'm pretty sure that the appearance of a pet will differ from regular monsters.

I already mentioned this. The /follow command makes them follow you, even if it means to stop attacking an enemy.

No, I don't think so. Doing that could cause people to want to heat their pet in FSC all the time, even if it's a young one. I don't know how many will agree, but if pets are supposed to be raised at things in their level, that may give a need for going into T1 and T2. (I haven't found a place for this yet, but I was thinking a hibernated pet doesn't receive any heat.)

6. another thing, what happens if my pet is stuck behind an object like a gate switch after i have commanded it to come to me, would it warp or wait till i open the gate like the mecha knights?

/come would probably take this. You use it and then your pet would try to come to you. After about 5-10 seconds of not getting anywhere, it warps.

7. is there a way i can make my pet walk around in haven like areas such as guild hall, bazaar, arcade ect.. with me or is that impossible?

I didn't think about this. Probably so.

8. i sugest the pet system be prohibited in ld. ld is its own game, and i dont think teh pet system would fit there.

I've answered this a lot. :P I'm going to see about stating it in bold next time I go to edit.

9. about feeding my pet using materials, when i make a high level food for example using only 5 star items, does it have a greater impact on my pets stats?

Yep. Changed it to answer this question.

The same. The idea is that you have a huge stamina pool. Getting hit takes a good deal out of it due to having no defense on your pet, while attacking uses very little stamina.

Maybe...I haven't thought much about this yet. They would probably get their own accessory category. Or maybe they would just get auras or something. To have to custom make each accessory for each pet would get hard. (What works for a Wolver won't work for a Kat!)

12. some pets i feel should not be viable like the healing gremlin or phantoms? what do you think?

True true. I agree. Keep in mind that not all enemies could be pets. Actually, only a small amount of them could be pets.

13. ill stop here. how about pet auras, can we also put that in teh accessory catagory?

See 11. :P

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 08:19

#41

Autofire

More replies!

Having it heal larger amounts is what people DON'T want, because that would me it a 'worthwhile healing pet'.

What I think anyway.

I agree. Possibly the neutral ones would heal and the status ones would cure. Actually....to use Luguiru's idea, the neutral one would probably be the carrier one, and would store hearts in the pack it has tied to it. When fed Celestial Ore at 3* and then incarnating, it would become a holy silkwing. THIS could grab hearts out of nothing, but at the cost of a large amount of stamina. (And with limiting added.)

Just some extra stuff that I didn't append to my 1st reply...

1. I think you're missing a perfect opportunity for a large crown sink here. Tokens may be exclusive to "Boss Pets" which could have different perks, but Nonna or another NPC having pets for a crown sink might be nice.

Maybe...first thing though is that we do have a huge sink atm. *Looks at guild halls* The token thing is to force getting pets purely from playing. Currently nothing is like that cause everything gained through tokens are either unbound or unbindable.

2. When the Mission System came out, many people complained about the inefficient, faultily-programmed, slow, pathetically weak Knights that you rescued from the Clockworks. Pets would have to work better, and have better programming, otherwise people would get annoyed with it. While pets sound appealing, if they're utterly useless like the Mission Knights then few would bother.

This is VERY true. Enhanced AI would have to be made. It shouldn't be too hard though. Really: monsters don't just stop walking when they follow you. If they were given just versions of their AI that is adapted for hurting enemies, things would be fixed.

3. I also think that pets would have to be uniquely-colored or have some other distinct/obvious difference betwixt them and normal mobs. If you had a purple devilite follow you around, it'd easily get confused in the fog of war with an enemy. It could cause you to react differently than you normally would, or dodge your own pet's attacks, that could put you in danger of other enemy attacks.

True to. I am going to mention pet differences. I don't think pets with ranged attacks are a good thing though.

Still +-0 on this idea atm...best attempt yet though.

~Sev

Whew. One more! :P

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 08:21

#42

Autofire

2.and recipes do they have to

2.and recipes do they have to be bought or will they be in the machine?

The recipes for incarnations are in the machine. Food recipes come from Nonna, Vatel, and/or Basil.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 10:00

#43

Severage

@Autofire:

Well, yes, the Guild Hall update is a massive sink, but it'll only hold its enthusiasm for a while.

Sure, guilds will still sink 200K~400K CR weekly into it, but nothing like they are doing now. My guild isn't even very large and the Guild Leader alone has spent 15M CR on it.

So, the persistent sink is quite a bit smaller than purchasing upgrades. As a note, pets don't have to cost 200K CR or something out of reach for the average player, but maybe somewhere in the 50K region.

Also, I was definitely not suggesting that them being bought from a vendor for CR would make them tradeable in any way.

True to. I am going to mention pet differences. I don't think pets with ranged attacks are a good thing though.

Right, probably not. I was just giving an example.

~Sev

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 11:55

#44

Canine-Vladmir

GARFUNKEL! doodle time

i keep doodling a mechanical butterfly for some reason...

I believe if the pets look more like Spiral Oder borrowed technology, it would fuit its purpose a little bit more.

note: not my best drawing. sorry was rushing but i hope u get the point.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:01

#45

Severage

@Canine:

Egads!

Butterfree evolved into ButterBorg!

~Sev

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:13

#46

Canine-Vladmir

LOL

your right.
it does look quite like Butterfree.....

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:15

#47

Blandaxt

pets

how pets who are not fed look and feel.

i sugest that the lossing teeth be not implemented, and instead make the pet less responsive when clicked on to show it has less energy. also, to give it a visual appearance that it has lesss stamina from it's normal amount from not being fed well, make it that it will move a bit sluggish while folowing the player like a bomber charging a vortex bomb and eventually give it a visual beat up look like the jelly king crown after it has been damaged or how the roamulus twin looks like after getting a certain amount of damage.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 15:32

#48

Evlo

Question...

Would Nonna be around all the time, maybe in the lab or would you only be able to get pets on special occasions?

Sat, 11/24/2012 - 10:04

#49

Autofire

Althought I'm about to do DotA2,

Blandaxt, the losing teeth thing is the the explanation for the teeth effecting stamina. This way, you can actuallly "feed" the pet the sharp fangs. It's not like it's gone. You don't need teeth.

I'll do full replies in a bit.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 18:30

#50

Falclion

Kat

Can you please do a kat pet?

Search

Dare I say it...pets?