I think that the hammer is by far the most annoying lockdown wep in spiral knights especially t2. The thing is like a sealed sword on steroids. I mean players float around and can take out a whole team without even losing half their health. The sword is technically a moving shield. And if the hammer has asi its impossible to kill the spammer unless you have a hammer. Most times i try to use kilowatt pulsar to slow doing the user but when the spammer is gliding along sometimes the blast is ineffective and im.dead saying WTF IS THIS? Total bs wep thats all i have to say. Unless you have two brandishes with asi med, or have a hammer yourself your screwed.
why do some players think hammer spamming takes skill?
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 02:09
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 02:42
#2
Why do some people think
Why do some people think they're skilled strikers when they use heart trinkies?
Equally mysterious~
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 03:07
#3
I don't get it...
Why do people think it's possible to "spam" a hammer? What else can you do with a hammer but swing it? Has everyone lost their minds? Has the definition of "spam" completely lost its original meaning?
You make the hammer seem much more powerful than it really is. If I've been able to kill hammer users with a Sudaruska before, then it hardly fits the description of "its impossible to kill the spammer unless you have a hammer"
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 03:41
#4
"Has the definition of "spam" completely lost its original meaning?"
In a word, yes.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 03:47
#5
-
the ones that are actually spamming it are easy to deal with since that final swing leaves them open. If they're just using the dash to move around after attacking that isn't "spamming" per se.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 05:20
#6
As Psycho said, it is not
As Psycho said, it is not easy to use the hammer. It really takes time to perfect it, and the people who "pwnz" with hammer is either :
1. Super duper ping, which makes it super duper hard to dodge.
2. Woopedy ASI, porbably VeryHigh or High.
3. Add to 1 & 2 that they "Trained" alot on it.
4. 3 + 2 + 1 = May god help you on not ragequitting...
I actually get very annoyed about it, but knowing that it is because of my latency... I just keep quiet ._.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 06:01
#7
Hammer is not easy at all
Have any of you tried to use it without AA????
Is the same as use brandish line without AA, those are good weapons but hard to control, good for SK players, AA is the Super-Easy mode for LD.
Is not easy at all.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 07:07
#8
Dont let them trick you
Its easy to wield.
I had alot of trouble yesterday in LD with a few noobs spam attacking. Most of them 4* rank.
I also lost a weapon slot so i had so gun or bomb to counter attack. Turns out a complete noob can get 10K just by spamming. Now isnt that easy?
Have you ever seen 2 UV skolver and a Hood Set spamming hammers in one Capture Point?! #$&*%!!!
Anyway, the Hammer is one of those unwritten "dont use if your a douche" IE war game weapons like UMP45 quick-scopin or that freaking Flashlight!
anyway, people still havent caught up with it yet. so LD is currently a noob fest.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 08:47
#9
Why do people say it takes skill?
Well, frankly, because it does.
It isn't the easiest weapon to use. If it's used wrong, it gets you killed more often than not (in PvE, at least).
Polaris is as easy to use as [metaphor I can't think of right now]. It's a spray n' don't need to pray because the shootable bomb will hit something. As a recon, I hate that thing.
The hammer is one of the few weapons (the only weapon) I've actually needed practice with so much that I needed to use the training hall to get it down.
I agree with higher up posts, such as psycho's: it has pure elemental damage, so it will hit VERY hard against anything or anyone without. Skill doesn't affect the damage done.
But seriously! It appears as though everyone who uses one gets kills in only 2 hits! What is this poppycock? It's so OP! I get two-shotted every time unless I'm wearing elemental defe—
/e looks at the Gran Faust.
… yeah.
It's easy to use. Difficult to master.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 08:21
#10
@Canine-Vladmir + Feller
Only one way to find out what's hammer spamming.
The Vicious Cycle of Lockdown
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 08:44
#11
"Most times i try to use kilowatt pulsar"
Double standards :/ That gun is as annoying as a hammer or flourish.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 09:08
#12
If its just one guy with the
If its just one guy with the hammer who uses it occasionally its not a big problem to kill the noob. But in t2 some times there are like 3 to 4 hammers on one team. Then furing the match ill be doing my flourish nightblade combo and then WACK im ganged by hammer noobs and then two double hammer combos later im dead and yelling, "WTF GTFO you ****ing hammer spammers!
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 09:21
#13
I think Hammer isn't
I think Hammer isn't completely crazy, but still a bit on the OP side. The main thing about the Hammer that makes it OP is its ability to move around without using a striker boost (assuming that the Hammer user is a striker), while doing great damage as well. So, when everyone chasing him runs out of boost, then it's easy to go around and pick them off with a Flourish or Faust. Also, in the hands of an experienced user, the Hammer can get so unpredictable. The weapon I'm scared of the most when gunning. :P
@Forum-Brady,
Lol, no. Not equally mysterious. Just cause you don't have trinkets doesn't mean everyone has to conform to how you play. The world doesn't revolve around you.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 09:23
#14
if they're spamming by simply
if they're spamming by simply using the weapon, as your definition of spamming appears to suggest, you're spamming by using your flourish or nightblade. If use of a weapon is spamming (and it's not), then everyone is a spammer no matter what they use.
I know this isn't quite on topic, but the accusation of being spammers irks me a bit, especially when Polaris users call "spam."
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 09:50
#15
shameful
ppl trying to make the best of their nooby dilemma.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 10:35
#16
@Tennis:
Who says I don't
@Tennis:
Who says I don't have trinkets? Who says I expect the world to revolve around me or expect everyone else to conform?
All I'm sayin' is that a striker thinks he's pro because he uses heart trinkies that allow him to tank better than guardians. The only strikers that impress me are the ones who do just as good without heart trinkies. Using them, idc what your damage is or how pro you think you are, you're not playing the class as intended. It's like getting high damage with a polaris and comparin' yourself to real gunners~
Besides, I'm not a striker. I rarely play the class and even more rarely play swords as striker~
Ofc, feel free to take a completely general comment personally and get whiney about it; sounds just like a typical heart striker clone to me! Always findin' someone to QQ to~ :3
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 10:46
#17
-----
Why do some players think LD takes skill?
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 13:14
#18
FALCON PUNCH!
Brandish takes skill. Forget about hammer, Fear my Combuster!
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 14:44
#19
K9 And Feller
1) I don't use AA
2) It's really not.
Spam the hammer all you want, a target out of range is going to be out of range. Dash to their face with the second strike? Oop, not enough boost now you're in their face but he moved to the side can't hit him.
"AA is the Super-Easy mode for LD."
Why do people INSIST AA is like some God-Mode? It helps you AIM at things, it doesn't guarantee a hit. Alchemers couldn't hit another player better than if you shot-placed at specific locations. Gunners move with AA, AA gets disabled. Swordy combos with AA, if they miss, they're screwed. If the enemy has a faster weapon, they're screwed. If the enemy hit them before they could even lift a finger, they're screwed.
Bombs...Well, Brady has that point.
"Turns out a complete noob can get 10K just by spamming. Now isnt that easy?"
Pray tell how you know he's a noob? Was it his gear? His manner of speech? The possibility he was moaning over every single death?
Sure, if you were all staying still getting 10K damage would be easy.
And if it was so easy, don't you think I wouldn't be complaining about how I suck in LD because my hammer makes me look good?
Because it doesn't.
"shameful
ppl trying to make the best of their nooby dilemma."
...Shameful you're trying to insist everyone here's a lying noob.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 14:59
#20
sigh
a couple things.
1. define spam
2. I do way better without a hammer than with it. 37k record without hammer, without AT. 20k record with hammer, with AT.
3. you have a point on it "moving like a shield", I understand how annoying people using the first hit on you and the 2nd hit to dash away can be. but I've done a race with a dear friend with asi ultra, and WALKING is faster than hammer.....
4. I just killed bobby while he has asi max hammer with only a flourish...
5. Unless you have mad ping and training and asi, there's no way you can come out of a group fight relatively unscathed when you use hammer. Hammer 2nd dash is too quick to use unless you have good ping (or as feller said, AT). and anyways, I've beaten a 1v6 with flourish only. only lost 4 health (sentenza ;-;)...
6. Hammer is harder to wield than it seems, I promise you that...
7. polaris is much more annoying... the devs should nerf it, since it's a gun that can be and IS used as a bomb. make it the next RSS, devs, I dare you. (incoming crapload of jempires who will be angry)
on a side note, Feller, as much as you and your brother can INSIST on me using AT, I don't ever use it (unless I'm using hammer, then I toggle it constantly..)
AT isn't invincible. AT messes you up except on 1v1's......
and anyways, if you get killed by a AT noob, I guess it's not NOOB since you're "the best player in the game" ;)
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 15:31
#21
node 58425
LOL. what? The most annoying weapon LD wise is obviously final flourish. The only reason that it hasn't been debuffed to heck is that OOO is too scared to lose all those players who would ragequit since LD isn't ridiculously broken anymore.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 15:40
#22
"(incoming crapload of jempires who will be angry)"
Don't hold your breath. I like how people just love making assumptions based on a stereotype.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 15:52
#23
The Real QUESTION IS!
why
The Real QUESTION IS!
why do some players think hammer Doesn't take skill?
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 16:15
#24
...
Just throwing this out there, my opinion is that the Hammer is the best sword for LD currently. Pure elemental where most people don't use that defense, and a unique dashing ability that is extremely unpredictable.
The reason I don't like people who abuse the hammer is because I've seen its OP-ness in action...
A striker with non-clone gear was getting like 4K damage a game, using a flourish. A flourish, mind you. He switched to hammer one game and got 8k damage, with the same less-than-appropriate gear. I fought him 1:1 and he took like 2 flourish strikes to kill, which made me even more surprised he got nearly 10k damage some games.
Sure, hammer isn't the only OP weapon, but he got 4k with a flourish. It's pretty clear the hammer is more effective.
Furthermore, the hammer's unpredictability makes it more effective than just because of the weapon. Psychologically speaking, the hammer is more effective. It's so easy to predict what someone will do with a GF, DA, or even a flourish. When the dash is used properly, the hammer's unpredictability trumps every other weapon.
Also, the hammer is affected by AA more than any other weapon. In all reality, AA doesn't make a huge difference with many weapons. Unless you're using Flourish's full combo, or standing still to shoot, AA doesn't do much. With the hammer though, AA affects the dash a hundred times more noticeably than any other weapon.
Finally, people get angry about the hammer because they can't get one, or don't have one. Its exclusiveness to P2P players makes some players upset. Up till OCH, anyone could get their hands on any weapon. Now, only P2P players and Steam users can. The division between types of players isn't good for the mentality of the game, plain and simple.
Just my 2 cents.
~Sev
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 16:42
#25
Children, children.
If you all don't quit your @&*$#ing, I will turn this car around.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 16:44
#26
I liek turtlez...... Are we going some place Retequizzle? o_o
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 17:18
#27
First of all, if you actually type "WTF GTFO you ****ing hammer spammers", I will err on the side of the hammer spammers.
Second, hammers really aren't that much of a problem, in my experience. I have much more trouble with things like Polaris and Flourish. Then again, I'm a bomber-gunner hybrid recon most of the time.
I figure swordies hate the Hammer so much because it has a powerful dash-attack that it has to be right next to you to hit with. Gunners have a range advantage (of course) and can just strafe around the dash, even bombers have a range advantage (Nitros have a pretty big blast radius), but swordsmen? They have to get in close. This makes the Hammer a counter-sword...
...at least, in theory. I can't be sure.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 17:21
#28
Why do some people think
Why do some people think lockdown takes skill? Just give OOO some money and get double health.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 17:35
#29
Well... you gotta know at least how to aim.... that takes skill... I mean if someone were to attack not even close to the opponent.... they shouldn't even be playing games >_> It takes even more skill to use the "dash" properly... Using Dash with AA can sorta fail... And as a (part-time) gunner, dodging hammer is easy...
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 17:43
#30
Double Post?
I pressed the button once.... WTF -__-
Edit:
(In my knowledge) The best way to see if someone is using AA or not with hammer is see how they fight against a guardian with the shield up. If AA is on, the "dash" part of the hammer will collide with the guardian shield and stay on one side of the Guardian. If AA is off, the user will just brush past the Guardian shield to the opposite side of the Guardian.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 17:38
#31
If the hammer user is using
If the hammer user is using AT, it's the most predictable weapon in the game.
The boost will automatically lunge him into you, if you wait at the end of the boost you can get a free hit everytime.
Also, while they are boosting, they lose their invincibility frames, so a multiple hits or alchemer bounces can destroy them.
The only thing you have to fear is good non AT hammer users, because they can manipulate their boost to be advantageous in their situation.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 18:10
#32
1. The hammer takes more
1. The hammer takes more skill to use than you would think. Ever try using one?
2. Define "spamming" by your terms.
3. Hm. It would seem as if you consider anybody using a hammer a noob. You need to work on that logic.
4. Get some elemental defense, stop your whining, and grow up.
That is all.
~Magnicth
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 18:42
#33
:O...T2?
What I usually do against hammer-wielding strikers is this:
1. Make sure I have a full tank of striker juice
2. Attack said opponent with a swift flourish
3. Weave around to side/back
4. Strike again
5. Repeat steps 3-4 until your dead or opponent is dead
This usually works because my attack interrupts the other knight's, effectively making them unable to swing. If they do...Step 3 will ensure that you don't get hit :D
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 18:50
#34
Redblade
I would love to answer you something, but i have no idea of who you are.
AA is Super ultra Easy mode with any weapon.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 18:54
#35
Feller, you made me sneeze
For I happen to be allgegic to bull.
Auto Target mega-super HINDERS weapons like Hammer and GF, the aim on them is crap if you turn it on.
The only wep I can think of Id rather have AT on instead of Off with is Brandish. Theres actually more GUNS than swords Id prefer to use it on with.
Also, when did AT become AA? In options it's labeled "Auto Target" howd that even come about anyway?
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 18:54
#36
Why do people think whatever
Why do people think whatever weapons they used need skills while other weapons don't?
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:01
#37
@ Dizzymoon
AA = Attractive Asian.... Aint it good to know people are good looking? ;)
AT = Atrocious Torture.... It hurts when people use AT D:
@ Misten
Because each weapon has its own attack pattern. The beauty of games like SK is that there are lots of diversity in playing styles you can choose and still do well in what you want to accomplish. Some may not be as good as others, however the combination of 2 weapons > 1 for sure.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:08
#38
Attractive Asian....mmm
Zade let us not get into racey topics, dont wanna get forum banned my first day now do I :O
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:16
#39
Two words
It doesnt...
But countering a hammer spammer shouldnt be hard if you have a toothpick and UNDERSTAND that the spammer will do the three hit combo. Thus, allowing you to predict, lock, and use toothpick.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:39
#40
Forum-Brady,I say you think
Forum-Brady,
I say you think the world revolves around you because of you only care about what you think. If people think that they are good at Lockdown, let them think that way. Why do you get the say to tell them that they aren't, especially if the only reason you say this is because they use heart trinkets. In fact, you only base your argument on your own opinion of how this game should be played.
"Using them, idc what your damage is or how pro you think you are, you're not playing the class as intended."
So, your assumption is that strikers should not be allowed to use heart trinkets. Your reason? Because they tank better than guardians. Do you even know what tank means? Do you want me to make a video of how many hits a Striker can take in comparison to a Guardian using the exact same gear? Did this basic information even cross your mind before you made another useless and irrelevant post?
It seems you have problems with how this game works, how OOO intended this game to work, because you toss your opinions around and want people to follow them. That's why I say you think the world revolves around you, that's why I say you expect people to conform to how you play. If you don't like how this game works, don't play it. If you do keep playing, have some respect for other people and let them play the game the way they want to. I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter. What I'm saying is don't tell other people your opinions and expect them to follow suit.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:46
#41
*Yawns*
I have to say, That I hate hammers with a passion. Because they Break bushes like their ain't nothing to it. I hate flourishes because they break bushes like theirs nothing to it. I hate everyone who breaks bushes. I hate watching as you smash my friends. They did "NOTHING" to you! Why do you torment us so? We just stand there, Day in, Day out. We can't fight back, so we watch in horror as you poke us, shoot us, smash us, ect, ect. But my question is...Why can't we make a truce? We'll keep the other team out of your base. And you don't smash us anymore, Ok?
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:51
#42
Oh my.
Lockdown sure is a touchy topic, no? Anyway. I believe the classes were originally made to work thusly:
Strikers are supposed to be fragile speedsters. Glass cannons.
Recons are supposed to be de-buffers and assassins.
Guardians are supposed to tank hits for both and also heal and swing a sword.
Trinkets do throw the intentions off balance. I agree with Brady on that.
Auto-target does not instantly make everything an infinity +1 sword in the game's most inexperienced players' hands.
Using a hammer does not make the user a spammer.
Using any weapon (we're talking skillful and proper usage, even with the Polaris) does not constitute spam.
Just because a weapon is strong does not mean it is easy to use (old Radiant Sun Shards, anyone? And I think the new ones count too).
Also, lol to the above. I apologize. Please forgive me, o generic-bush.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:52
#43
Gotta agree with Lego here.
Gotta agree with Lego here.
Tennis, try a ld game without the extra health and no ASI. You will then see the unfairness. Until you have seen how bad we've had it with you clones, I don't think you should be the one complaining about how the world revolves around someone.
Move this ld talk to Brady's suggestion on the suggestion forums
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:54
#44
FALCON PUNCH!
@Generic-Bush That was..very touching.......Welp back to destroying bushes :D
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 19:57
#45
RE
I have a hammer myself and i can say it's quite difficult to maneuver, I can't play competitively with it unless i wear my vog set for max asi
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:27
#46
@DarkshaodwWhat you said
@Darkshaodw
What you said doesn't have to do with what Brady and I were arguing about but:
I have played without ASI and heart trinkets. I did not start off in Lockdown with full Skolver and heart trinkets. I earned it.
Let me remind you that Lockdown was first meant to be end game entertainment for the players finished with PvE. I'm saying people who have earned their gear shouldn't be forced to give that up so people who don't have as good gear get a better chance. If you want to succeed in Lockdown, fix and focus on your own skill and gear, not other's.
Btw, what is this hate going on for people with Skolver? "you clones"? Geez.
PS: I don't know if you read the whole argument but I was saying how the world does NOT revolve around someone.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:53
#47
@Lskyx
Seriously, are you
@Lskyx
Seriously, are you trying to tick people off?
Nosrsly, I am totally getting that impression.
@Tennis+Darkbrady
Dark's initial statement was probably referring to the fact that a Striker's HP is reduced to balance the power and speed the class gets. By negating that nerf with Heart trinkets, you're pretty much the most powerful class on the field, not counting other trinket users etc.
Therefore, 'Dude, I'm totally so pro look I killed all these noobs' /only survived the battles due to the extra edge the trinkets provided/because he didn't die in the two GF hits that usually happen.
Fair to say, IMO.
However, I also agree that it was irrelevant to this thread.
On the same topic, Dark has a point that you're taking a general statement totally personally. Dark's point was legitimate, however irrelevant, but you chose to take offense as you thought he was talking about all trinket users, although Brady's point was referring more to the Egoists who proclaim their epic-proness while pretty much doing the equivalent of taking steroids.
Your points are totally valid Tennis, but methinks they're pointing in the wrong direction. Brady can appear blunt an patronizing sometimes, but that's an issue with the way he says things; he doesn't actually intend to offend with some posts although it can be taken that way.
Although some sentences he's said in here are totally intended as offense. Internet fights tend to do that.
But Brady, somewhat irrelevant, and methinks a little careless of you, bringing up a known-sore-subject like that.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:26
#48
Sorry, I guess I
Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted what Brady was trying to say. Whatever the case, let's not sidetrack this thread's original topic anymore.
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:30
#49
generic-bush
Generic-bush i lol'ed for like 5 minutes at the bush comment. But hes right respect the bushes!
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:50
#50
@This thread
I swear, I almost felt like I was going to throw up after reading through this thread... The ignorance levels are too high. Most LD topics seem to be like this, I'ma keep a safe distance from them from now on.
A few parting words though;
LD is a competitive game. To win, a team must have the most capture points at the end of a match, or they must reach a certain amount of points before the time expires.
All members of a team must work together to accomplish that objective. Each individual should do whatever it takes to win. This means choosing an alchemer over the blitz needle, choosing voltaic tempest over the nitronome, and by extension this also includes players who choose the warhammer over DA/GF/FF/FoV.
If you perform better while using a certain weapon, why on earth would you ever want to switch? Whatever helps get your team the win is what counts. Skill/AA/Spam/Trinkets are all irrelevant. If you choose inferior equipment just because of the delusionary idea that other weapons require "no skill", you're not helping anything.
The hammer isn't as easy to wield as it sounds.
I have one myself, but I lack the skill to use it. It's not a 'spam it and pwn' weapon like the Polaris could be, because it's attacks leave you open if you're careless with it. I've only had a lucky few times where I've managed to use it properly, otherwise, I die more often than anything else on the field.
The only 'bs' thing about it is it's pure elemental damage. Get some elemental defense, and you're all sweet.
"by far the most annoying lockdown wep in spiral knights especially t2."
Wait till you get to T3, Polaris', ASI Toothpicks and moar hammers oh my.
"I mean players float around and can take out a whole team without even losing half their health"
If they're good with it, they could do that with a Faust.