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Armor Branching Revamp: Wolver, Plate, and Vitasuit Line. More to come later!

15 replies [Last post]
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 23:17
Zopyros-Il's picture
Zopyros-Il

Hello again!
Not sure if anyone remembers, but I've been working on redesigns on all of the armor lines to try to make them more than just recolors of one another. I've been slowly plugging away at it in my free-time and thought I'd stop by here to get your opinions on my latest batch.

Vitasuit Line

The Vitasuit has always been an odd set of armor that's just all over the place and whose three variations don't even craft into one another. So, why not fix it up, streamline its alchemy path, and add some branches?

http://pixelhat.tumblr.com/image/37317955233

Before anyone says anything, these two designs were major inspirations for my own, so there are a lot of similarities.
http://malakym.deviantart.com/art/Doodle-Silkwing-Silks-330298254
http://caicaibia.deviantart.com/art/Beryl-Greaver-Set-330546143

The main line is still the Vitasuit, Vitasuit Plus, and Vitasuit Deluxe with an added Vitahelm. It would start at 3* and work it's way up to 5*, with the Silkwing and Greaver branches at 4*.
I'm still thinking of proper names and stats for the individual pieces, but here's what I have so far.

Menders Silk Robe and Cap
Increases all status resistances medium and health increase low per piece
Normal and Elemental defense
Could possibly take the Robe's ribbon asset and reuse it for accessories.

Vitasuit and Vitahelm
Increases health medium and all status resistances low
Normal and Pierce defense

Greaver Cape and Cowl -
Increases chances of inflicting status effects low/medium
and/or
Increases strength of status effects inflicted by the player
Normal and Shadow defense.

If possible, I would have the effects apply to the entire party since by themselves the effects aren't all that great, but may work great for a team. I still have a few of my own ideas on what to do with for their stats and such, but brings in more of my own ideas that would take far too long to explain.

Anyways, what do you guys think? Is it a good idea to do something like this to the Vitasuit? It's not as though anyone uses it in its current state, so I personally don't see why not, but someone may have a differing opinion on the matter. Also, are the Silkwing and Greaver branches an alright idea for the Vitasuit?

~~~~~ EDIT 1~~~~~

I'm going to try to turn this into a sort of master post for my armor redesigns and get rid of my older thread that I started a while back (soon as I can find the blasted thing...).
I'll be adding more armors as I get them done from here and hopefully some weapon designs as well.

NOTE:
Most, if not all, of my redesigns from this point on will be working from the idea of truly working your armor up from the start of the game, all the way from the newbie 1* to the powerful 5*. You'll actually see your armor evolve in a sort of way, as your Knight adds and reinforces it with each Alchemy. No longer will the armors just be recolors of one another, but actually be a slight reflection about themselves! Each one will be a bit unique in its design, though I will be trying my best to keep all of the various color schemes of the current armors so as not to make them too different.
With this redesign, I also plan on changing the way the armors branch into one another. All along a single armor's alchemy path will be branches that ultimately lead to completely different armors. The further down the line the more similar the branches are to one another until you get that one armor that you really want and worked for and crafted all your own.
My main goal with this is to bring use to armors that don't ever really get used because honestly, there's a lot of them. At the same time, I want to try and change up the way that the armors are made so that in the future there's more possibility for unique armor to be made. And by being just a bit different, hopefully there can be more new ideas/features that can be implemented.

Now something that has been brought up is the potential to ragecraft a whole set of awesome UV armor with the low cost of 1* crafting. I took that into account, but forgot to add it into the OP. So here goes.
This idea comes in two parts.
1. What I was hoping is that you never get the chance to craft the 1* armor. There is no recipe for them whatsoever. You need to buy the basic armor from the vendors all the time should you want to start crafting your way up from scratch again. Unspoken rule or not, it seems wrong to me to create textures and models for all this rather random 0* and 1* equipment and then make them utterly pointless. Every single mission in the Rescue Camp can be done with just a standard Proto set and any 0* variants you can buy in the area, so why break the entire 1* tier just because of the rage crafting problem? So, I decided to turn them into something useful and at the same time eliminate the rage crating problem for the low level armor. It also adds use back to the poor vendors who rarely see any Knights any more. Poor Strangers are probably getting lonely...
However, I'm not getting rid of making your own armor from thin-air and getting UVs either...

2. Bring in a second set of recipes into the game. Every single recipe that's currently in the game gets duplicated, but this duplicate lets you craft the item without needing the equipment before it. Any 5* item you want to make doesn't need the 4* item before it, any 4* doesn't need the 3*, and so on. "But that's horribly unbalanced!" I hear you cry, but this ease of access comes at a cost. Since you're crafting something advanced from literally nothing but material scraps, the amount of the materials needed to craft the item is GREATLY increased. The Energy cost may, hell even should, be higher for these recipes, but I think for that ease of just crafting straight off to 5* armor, a lot players would jump at that chance.
Now, for further balancing on these recipes and to help bring back the whole recipe hunting trade back to the Clockworks and the Auction House, these can only be found in the Clockworks being sold by Basil. No free handouts at the easy-mode Hall of Heroes. If you want these recipes, you're going to have to work to find them. Also, their price either needs to be far greater than the usual recipes OR they need to be like a ticket, where it's only good for one craft. If the one craft method is applied, Basil would need to carry more of the recipes, depending on which Tier you're buying on. He'll have more of the lower end ones, but only about one or two of the 5* recipes.
With this second part, the aim is to give new purpose to Clockworks runs, bring back the recipes market into the Auction House, make a viable materials sink, and still make it possible to ragecraft, but only so much.

Now let's get into it, shall we?

Wolver/Plate Line

http://pixelhat.tumblr.com/post/37394529020/spiral-knights-wolver-and-pl...

1* Fencing Jacket
2* Coat of Arms

Wolver Line = Sword buffs & Offense
3* Wolver Pelt

4* Wolver Coat / Dusker Coat

5* High Alpha Coat (Skolver) / Lone Wolver Coat (Ashtail)
- Attack speed increase medium
- Normal & Piercing / Elemental defense

5* Vog Cub Coat / Snarbolax Coat
- Attack power increase medium
- Normal & Elemental / Shadow defense

Plate Line = Shield Buffs & Defense
3* Basic Plate Mail

4* Spiral Plate Mail / Boosted Plate Mail

5* Almirian Guardian Mail / Ironmight Plate Mail
- Shield recharge rate increase medium
- Normal & Shadow / Piercing defense
- Stun defense medium

5* Ancient Plate Mail / Volcanic Plate Mail
- Shield health increase medium
- Normal & Piercing / Elemental
- Stun defense medium

Personally, I feel that the weapon specialized lines provide too much defensive capabilities for being gear tuned for offense. Because of that it outshines the gear that's supposed to be made for defense. While a lot of players would still go for the offensive armor, making it so that the defensive and support armors can at least stand on near equal footing is a good first step. Remove or nerf the status resistances on the offensive armors and maybe even nerf their overall defense as well. Make it more of a true trade for offense/defense.

Thoughts?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 23:28
#1
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
-

EDIT: Is that first link your own image?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 23:40
#2
Zopyros-Il's picture
Zopyros-Il
@Hexzyle

Yup. It's mine. Just got it done a little while ago.

Oh, is it cycling through the colors for you on the link? It's not working quite like it should sometimes, which is rather perplexing and annoying....

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 01:17
#3
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
+1

Image works fine. Well, I can say, that is incredible. My post was edited because it was just me bashing you for using the same images to try to spawn another "lets make this gear i found in a random picture" thread, but I didn't realise that you'd drawn that image yourself.

I myself am a Vitaluxe user, and I would love to see it recieve some attention.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 03:03
#4
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

I don't use vitasuits.

...

+1.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 03:13
#5
Aureate's picture
Aureate
Processing Thoughts of You Always

Both looks and sounds like a great idea in general, although perhaps causing the Greaver sets to increase the status strength might be more fitting, rather than trying to boost the proc rate (the latter might be a bit more difficult with the programming, whereas the first - differing status strength - is already a Thing). That especially seems like it might make a nice option for haze-bombers who want a piece of armour with something other than split normal/elemental defence.

There's one obvious issue, though. What exactly would you do with the current Vitasuit and Vitasuit Plus? At the moment, they are 0* and 2* armours respectively, but if you incorporated them into the upgrade, it would essentially turn them into free 3* and 4* armours, not to mention the 4* Vitasuit Deluxe would become a 5* item. I seem to remember this was the reason that the Scintillating Sun Shards was introduced rather than bumping up RSS to a 5* weapon; it could become a major issue if people decide to pull roughly the same thing as they did with that update and purchase mass amounts of the Vitasuit before it's implemented.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 16:51
#6
Alpha-Stevo's picture
Alpha-Stevo
I absolutely LOVE your art

I absolutely LOVE your art style and armor ideas, since you posted the Fencing-to-Wolver armor sets.

ANYHOW, as for this suggestion, it can be broken down into different parts:
-Yes to the Vitahelm
-Yes to the Silkwing side-grade
-Yes to the Greaver side-grade
-Yes to the Vitasuit guarding against statuses
-Kind of conflicted regarding the Silkwing set being Status > Health, but I can dig it
-Completely okay with Greaver being Status infliction
-And my only main concern is turning the current vitas into 3/4/5 star sets. They aren't all that helpful in their respective tiers, but you can't really go about this without needing to give the players some form of compensation. I'm not too sure how to handle this with the desired result without introducing three new armors to take their place, even if they would be rendered obsolete.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 20:20
#7
Hemsy-Mule's picture
Hemsy-Mule
Here take my like good sir

+1 for the art style, the commitment and the fun idea behind it !

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:33
#8
Zopyros-Il's picture
Zopyros-Il
Beep Boop

@ Hexzyle
I was getting tired of people throwing them around too. :/
Still they are very good armor designs and OOO would have to be crazy not to find a way to implement them. Especially considering that the Silkwing design is by Ian McConville AKA a OOO worker AKA Cherub.

@Psychodestroyer
Neither do I. Poor thing needs some love.

@Aureate
Changed the OP a bit to add in your suggestion. Good thinking on that one.

As for the problem of what to do for the already existing Vitasuits, best solution I can think of is to add another Vitasuit and only making it a 1* to 2* transition which wouldn't be as bad. Though I'm out of ideas for different designs for the line. @__@

@Alphastevo
Thanks for the support!
I'm not too attached to the buffs I came up with for the Silk either. I can't think of anything really new that wouldn't be treading on other armors territories though. Hopefully someone can think up something...

As for the Vitasuit dilemma with the different *s, I think I addressed that in Aureate's reply.

@Hemsy-Mule
Thanks!

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:52
#9
Grittle's picture
Grittle
+1, but.....

You know this idea is already bashed down when the line starts at 1*

There is a reason why the Haze bomb was changed from 1* to 2*

HINT: It involved lots and lots of ragecrafting

Basically everyone would craft the fencing jacket for the perfect UV, and since 1* is 10 Energy to craft, the world would slowly become all wolver

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:03
#10
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
.

Yeah, there's an unwritten rule that states:

Equipment starting at 0 star can only go up to 1 star
Equipment starting at 1 star can only go up to 3 star
Equipment starting at 2 star can go up to 5 star

It's like that to prevent rage crafting UVs, and various other balancing and pricing issues.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:17
#11
Juances's picture
Juances

They all sound too good.

Check http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Grey_Feather_Mantle
with
Menders Silk Robe and Cap
Increases all status resistances medium and health increase low per piece
Normal and Elemental defense
Could possibly take the Robe's ribbon asset and reuse it for accessories.

Even if GFM has higher status resists, it's only 2 of them and no extra health.

Focus on those forgotten lines (skelly,jelly for example don't branch at all). Wolver already has enough attention for now.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:21
#12
Zopyros-Il's picture
Zopyros-Il
1* Crafting

Ah! I knew someone was going to bring that up! I knew I forgot add something to the OP when I edited it (it's what I get for deciding to type the thing at 5 AM). Let me clarify.

This idea comes in two parts.
1. What I was hoping is that you never get the chance to craft the 1* armor. There is no recipe for them whatsoever. You need to buy the basic armor from the vendors all the time should you want to start crafting your way up from scratch again. Unspoken rule or not, it seems wrong to me to create textures and models for all this rather random 0* and 1* equipment and then make them utterly pointless. Every single mission in the Rescue Camp can be done with just a standard Proto set and any 0* variants you can buy in the area, so why break the entire 1* tier just because of the rage crafting problem? So, I decided to turn them into something useful and at the same time eliminate the rage crating problem for the low level armor. It also adds use back to the poor vendors who rarely see any Knights any more. Poor Strangers are probably getting lonely...
However, I'm not getting rid of making your own armor from thin-air and getting UVs either...

2. Bring in a second set of recipes into the game. Every single recipe that's currently in the game gets duplicated, but this duplicate lets you craft the item without needing the equipment before it. Any 5* item you want to make doesn't need the 4* item before it, any 4* doesn't need the 3*, and so on. "But that's horribly unbalanced!" I hear you cry, but this ease of access comes at a cost. Since you're crafting something advanced from literally nothing but material scraps, the amount of the materials needed to craft the item is GREATLY increased. The Energy cost may, hell even should, be higher for these recipes, but I think for that ease of just crafting straight off to 5* armor, a lot players would jump at that chance.
Now, for further balancing on these recipes and to help bring back the whole recipe hunting trade back to the Clockworks and the Auction House, these can only be found in the Clockworks being sold by Basil. No free handouts at the easy-mode Hall of Heroes. If you want these recipes, you're going to have to work to find them. Also, their price either needs to be far greater than the usual recipes OR they need to be like a ticket, where it's only good for one craft. If the one craft method is applied, Basil would need to carry more of the recipes, depending on which Tier you're buying on. He'll have more of the lower end ones, but only about one or two of the 5* recipes.
With this second part, the aim is to give new purpose to Clockworks runs, bring back the recipes market into the Auction House, make a viable materials sink, and still make it possible to ragecraft, but only so much.

I'll add this to the OP, so let me know what you think of the idea.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:24
#13
Zopyros-Il's picture
Zopyros-Il
@Juances

Don't worry. ;)
I'm working on the other lines. It's harder for some of them because there's no 1* / 2* armor that I can turn into a basis for them, so I have to make them from scratch. Then there's the problems of some of them just being really useless and not having anything really worth using, so I'm trying to think of new uses for them as well.
What I have so far is...

Gunner / Magic
Gunner- Projectile Offense
You know what this does. It already has 4 end results, so I don't need to make one up for it.

Magic- Projectile Defense
More defense if the attack was a projectile, allowing Magic line users to be a damage sponge and take shots for their team. Would also have some status resistances. May also provide some very small gunner buffs.
Two 5* would be light and Owlite themed (Owlite and Divine), while the other two are dark and Spookat themed (Chaos and Spookat).

Bomber / Jelly
Bomber- Area Offense
You know what this one does too. It also has 4 end variants, so less work for me!

Jelly- Area Control
This one is a bit different. It messes with the shield bump mechanics and makes the amount of "bump" be buffable. It would essentially allow Knights to better keep their distances from troublesome fast enemies and give them time to set up their attacks better. Such a buff could be added onto shields themselves to differentiate how defensive they are, letting them bump enemies further or maybe not even much at all.
Anyways, there would be the vanilla Jelly end results of Royal Jelly and Ice Queen and the other two which would be Lichen themed. I'd move the Quicksilver line into it and add a Lichen 5* armor.
If possible, I'd like the Lichen armors to "shield spike" instead of bump, meaning that it becomes an offensive and defensive tool to make use of. Would also be a fun buff to add onto shields to add some more variety and usefulness.

Seraphic / Skelly
Working off of a good/evil concept with these ones. No definitive stats yet, though...
I'll need to make one other 5* Seraphic armor (probably just move and rename Radiant Silvermail into it), the variations on the Skelly are a bit tricky, seeing as there are none. I was thinking of making use of the Graveyard Phantom and even making a Swarm infested armor, but we'll see how that goes.
Any ideas on what exactly these would specialize in are much appreciated.

Scale / Chroma
Natural scales vs. metal scales.
These are another problem area. Chroma is supposed to be good against Jellies and Scale as the same for Beasts, but with no Normal defense. They're a weird bunch of armors and any help with giving them a purpose would also be appreciated.

Cobalt
This would still be a jack-of-all-trades armor, but made to actually be that way and not useless. I was thinking of a low overall attack speed buff with the Almirian Crusader changing it into an overall attack power buff.

I am taking ideas on things, so let me know your own ideas on these things and what you think would work better for the armors.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 14:09
#14
Grittle's picture
Grittle
I really think that Jelly

I really think that Jelly should have a Counter Passive- Thats means if an enemy hits you when wear any type of Jelly armor, they get Hurt back

Normal Jelly line

Enemy has a 50% chance to get: Slight Damage, Moderate Stun when hitting the user

Ice Queen

Enemy has a 33% chance to get: Slight Damage, Minor Freeze when hitting the user

Quicksilver

Enemy has a 33% chance to get: Slight Damage, Minor Shock when hitting the user

Thus the Jelly line could have some use in LD and Clockworks!

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 14:10
#15
Grittle's picture
Grittle
[Double Post]

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