Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Possible fix to shard bomb line that will make everyone happy (players AND OOO)

9 replies [Last post]
Tue, 12/11/2012 - 07:09
Jeeshman

Keep everything the same EXCEPT...

...bring back the insta-kill on direct hit. Meaning, keep the 3 shard hit limit, except when the initial blast detonates directly on an enemy, in which case the enemy will get hit with all the shards (makes sense, right?). Maybe extend the fuse time by a tiny bit for balance.

Not only will this bring back skill, but also some much needed DPS, which the old shard bomb line was famous for. Additionally, the damage boost will be reserved for the skilled only, and only works on single targets, so it balances out. PLUS, it won't function like a gun, which prompted the shard changes in the first place.

Thoughts? Comments?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 07:43
#1
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

The original shards were usefull for their range (plus ability to go over small walls) and the insta-kill was probably the reason they got nerfed.

You're doing it the wrong way.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 09:47
#2
Jeeshman
There were two main uses to

There were two main uses to the pre-update shard bombs:

1. Long range sniping (as you said); kill gun puppies/polyps/howlitzers.
2. One-shot kills with proper placement. (Don't believe me? Watch some old bomb only runs of FSC)

OOO said explicitly that one of the main reasons for the changes was that the range was too "gun-like". So as much as I'd love the old RSS back, range and all, it doesn't seem like a possibility. At least with my fix we can deal some damage for once, albeit with some skill.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 10:05
#3
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Actually, they never said it

Actually, they never said it was too gunlike. They specifically said it was "not bomblike enough". Players just assumed they meant that it was the "gun" aspect, but considering the fact that we have several "mixed" weapons and they went on to release DR which is the farthest thing one can imagine from a bomb, it leads to the conclusion that the problem wasn't in the range aspect. The problem was in the fact that a bomb, that's designed for aoe and group kills, was being used primarily to spike ohko targets. Experienced bombers didn't use RSS to clear crowds as much as they just used it to spike targets dead in an instant. It was a lot faster, easier and safer.
Which is explicitly not bomb-like.

So I'm with mini-Juances here; you're doin' it backwards. Your suggestion would just go back to allowing bombers to onehit single targets, which isnae the direction any changes will ever be going in, and (as below) would actually blow them well into the waters of OPitude.

Also, something you might want to give a butchers at:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/69015

We've come to the conclusion that if shards were any stronger than they currently are, they'd basically be unstoppable when used in groups. Most bombs are already pretty OP when used in groups, the shards are surprisngly efficient at clearing crowds when used in groups. If they had more damage or removed the hit limits (etc etc) then we'd be doing runs faster than with any of our other weapons/bombs. The current situation is actually a lot more balanced than any of us realised at first; it's just that this comes at the cost of making them nigh useless to use solo.

But hey, it's a team--game after all. Some weapons should be designed to be used as part of a team, especially considering we have so, so many weapons that just encourage solo play all the blitzing time.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 10:11
#4
Verodius's picture
Verodius
+1

Would make the Shard Bombs worth using.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 10:50
#5
Jeeshman
I read the thread. As you

I read the thread. As you said, even in the most ideal situation with teammates, it was still a slower run than normal. So you should only use it in teams instead of Nitro for the more manageable knockback, and even then, you'll be killing enemies slower. I am softening to the idea of not implementing my original suggestion though :P

How about this? Make the secondary shards explode sooner. That will take care of the dead zone, and will speed up the whole process/bring DPS up to par with other bombs.

Or maybe add another inner ring of shards, lower the damage per shard, and allow 4 hits instead of three. Not so confident with this last idea, but I still firmly believe SOMETHING needs to be done.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 11:16
#6
Softhead's picture
Softhead
Or.....

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/65511#comment-562152

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:43
#7
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
I read the thread. As you

I read the thread. As you said, even in the most ideal situation with teammates, it was still a slower run than normal.

Practice more. Honestly, we can do runs at average and faster-than-average speeds using shards as our primary dps. If you're comparing it to something like blitzexing that's used expressly for insane time speedruns, then ofc it'll come off slower; but so do most weapons, so that's hardly a fair comparison. If we look at average gameplay speeds, average player techniques/combos, then a team of sharders can easily keep up with them. It's not a "it's close enough, I guess, whatever". It is a "they are as good as everything else". Their biggest drawback is that they just can't be used effectively as a solo sharder.

As for reduced 2nd ring fuses, I'm in two minds. In some cases it would help a lot. In other cases, the second rings long fuse is actually perfect. (for example, laying mines out over spawns or covering a corridor then moving back; with faster ring times it'd be like dropping a nitro, but if you use the delay in fuse times as a chance to essentially plant some land mines, you get a whole new dynamic).

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:27
#8
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

I actually like the fuses times exactly as they are. See, with max CTR, the ring of a shard bomb is going to explode right after the next shard bomb core goes off, allowing you to push enemies into the ring using the core, just over two different bombs.

It adds more depth, I think. If the same bomb always pushed enemies into the ring with the core blast and the explosions matched up on its own, what would even be the point of having a double-explosion mechanic?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:44
#9
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Pretty much. The only place

Pretty much. The only place where the fuse is actually almost universally a bad thing is LD, since it gives players just too much time to safely cross them. I'm yet to find any real benefit in long fuses in LD short of just dropping them all over CPs as part of a shard team to discourage players, but since a single player can just ignore this and walk onto them, taking less damage than an alchemer hit from that single blast, it doesnae really discourage any more than you just shooting antiguas in their direction. Hazes just do that job better in every circumstance.

But in CWs, the fuse is ideal pretty much everywhere, shy of a few situations where I've just found myself thinkin' "if only the fuses were faster, that fight woulda ended already"~

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system