Spiral Knights - Dragons as Enemies!

Dragons as Enemies!

47 replies [Last post]

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:41

Zaffy-Laffy

Hey hey All

This guy suggest we have dragons http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/70330

Let's talk about creating a new monster/miniboss then

Dragons!

Did someone shout Dragon? All men to battle stations, it's time to tame this wild beast!

Subject : Dragon
Type : Beast
Health :: 500-800 for Tier 1 (sorry, forgets tier 1 damage); 1500-2500 for Tier 2; 4000-8000 for Tier 3 (though I realize how blitz can easily take this damage)
Possible Status effects : Freeze, Poison, Fire, Shock, Stun(for normal stratum)

Attacks :

~ Tier 1 onwards ~

Swipe : Swipes its claws at a 90 degree radius in front. Deals normal damage/piercing damage, possible knockback, possible stun. Swings have a range of 2 -3 squares.

~ Tier 2 onwards ~

Breath : Exhales a foul smelling breath from its mouth. Possible damage, deals status effects. The breath travels forward at a 90 degree radius and about 6 squares.

Tail Swing : Swings its tail around 360 degrees. Deals normal/piercing damage, possible knockback. It has a possible range of 2-4 squares.

~ Tier 3 onwards ~

Fly : Flys up and lands on a knight. There will be a shadow to indicate landing. Deals heavy normal damage and knockback.

Bite : Bites at knights. Deals piercing damage, possible stun. Possible higher damage, but it has a low range. Bite deals heavy damage at the front for up to 2 squares.

Drops : Crowns, Heat, Yellow shard, Green shard, Dragon scale, possible salamander gear...

Anything else to say?

Looks :
General description : Dragon is huge size, possible 5 times bigger than the knight.
~ Tier 1 ~ Light colors, scales are flat and smooth. Has a normal tail scaly tail.
~ Tier 2 ~ Slightly darker colors, scales are slightly pointy. Tail has a few spikes on it.
~ Tier 3 ~ Very dark colors, scales are rough and pointy. Tail has many spikes on it.

Normal dragons : Dragon is of yellowish/brownish color.
Fire : Dragons are reddish in color.
Shock : Dragons are Purple/blue in color.
Freeze : Dragons are Bluish/white in color.
Poison : Dragons are greenish in color.
Shadow : Dragons are grayish/blackish in color.

Edit: If not we can have smaller dragons as normal enemies ^^ Thunderbog is gonna hate me :3

Smaller versions of dragons : About the size of a wolver, but with wings @q@

Perhaps take out the tail spin attack and swipe attack.... Tier 1 will have biting only, Tier 2 will have Dragon breath, and Tier 3 flying!!!!

Health : 100-200 for Tier 1, 500-800 for Tier 2, 1200-1600 for Tier 3, and they can fly to dodge bullets :3 Take that blitz!

I'm done, feel free to comment and suggest and BASH this thread.
And if you do bash it, I will personally FUS RO DAH you.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:24

Severage

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No offense, but the Dragon will be slaughtered. It's Beast, weak to Pierce, and two charges of a Blitz will annihilate it.

I say it should be given Vanaduke's Mask resistance - all special damage deflected. 'Course...Blitz will still probably have the highest damage....but at least it won't die in a charge.

I have a question...why exhale foul breath? It's not a hippopotamus. Why not exhale fire or something that most dragons do?

I'm also assuming since you said "onwards" that T2 will have T1's attacks, and so on and so forth.

I also suggest that the T1 dragons and other Tier dragons have different names. T1 Dragons can be called Drakes, and hence drop Drake Scales. T2 Dragons may be called Wyverns, and have a higher chance of dropping drake scales. T3 Dragons may be called Dragons, and drop Dragon Scales. This way it goes with the Armor Sets named after the beasts, as well as the materials.

EDIT: Oh, and while it gets resistance to special damages (due to its thick hide or something like that), it still is a Beast. Thus, it will still take bonus damage from Beast-Family Damage Bonus UVs.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:51

Zaffy-Laffy

it's just an idea. Hmm, some

it's just an idea. Hmm, some resistance to piercing might balance off the blitz.

Perhaps its thick and strong hide, covered with a layer of scales can deflect the bullets. (me making stupid reasons)

Or a weak spot like trojans?

I meant the breath is just breath that deals status effects according to the stratum. Foul smell is just a description.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:57

Severage

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Yeah that's why I said resistance to all special damages, like Vana's Mask.

Dragons, according to mythology, have a weak spot on their belly and nowhere else. Thing is...that's the only place a Spiral Knight would hit, due to the lack of multiple height-maps.

Right...but how can foul breath shock someone? Not in the figurative way, the literal way. Also, foul breath isn't very characteristic of dragons iirc.

I still like my idea of changing the dragon's names and models by Tier to match the armor sets and mats too.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:13

Zaffy-Laffy

Possibly only can get attack

Possibly dragons can only get damaged from the sides, so that's where the tail spin comes in, to knock you away.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:12

Severage

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Sounds like Onyxia.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:03

Xxpapaya

The papaya giggles

@Severage
"Sounds like Onyxia."
'Xia' is my last name ^^

@Thread
If it wasn't for the logic in Spiral Knights, I would say "How do a bunch of needles hurt a beast covered in diamond hard scales?". But then there's the exception of Vanaduke's weakness to piercing, so I'll let that one go..............
Yeah, I think this is quite a good suggestion, the problem is finding a way around the "blitz needle" problem :O

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:07

Severage

@Papaya

"the problem is finding a way around the "blitz needle" problem :O"

"that's why I said resistance to all special damages, like Vana's Mask."

"'Xia' is my last name ^^"

o_o Is ony your first name? :p

Onyxia is a Dragon from World of Warcraft - really old content now, nobody fights her anymore.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:17

Forum-Brady

Just a note on the

Just a note on the health....8k hp? Are you kidding me?

Now I can only assume you're basing this around the concept of "blitz does 4k+ damage", so you wanted to give it more hp so that blitz won't one-hit it, thus making it "balanced".
However, that just leads to them having stupidly high hp amounts for anything but blitz. Bombers, for example, would need to spend boringly long trying to kill them. So everyone'd just blitz up and clear them in eight seconds anyways, so they might as well just have 4k hp in the first place, as it won't do jack to slow down blitz, but will get boring/annoying for everyone else to need to spend 5 mins killin' somethin' every two rooms it pops up.

Although that's assuming that it's just a "miniboss" in the same sense that Trojans are: elite mooks there to annoy you and make you sad.

If you actually mean "miniboss" in the sense of...well, actually SK doesn't have any minibosses...
Well then 8k is far too low. Precisely for the above reason. Blitzes would clear these minibosses in seconds. Seconds. Two blitzers and the fight's over before the thing even realises you're there.
Even for bombers or normal-weaponers, 8k isn't much for what's essentially a boss-to-be. I mean, Vana has...what quarter a million hp in a 2/3 man party? Against a miniboss who has double the hp of a trojan that we see two dozen of in FSC alone.

Also, making it resistant like the masks won't atcually change much in the end. Blitz is still the single fastest mask-killer, despite the resistance. In fact, to show just how OP blitz is, it actually outdamages Pepperbox on the mask.

Either way, your hp stats need revised, it undoubtedly needs some resistance to blitz, maybe in the form of pseudo-invinci frames or a rapid-but-shortlived shield-up mechanic akin to the Jelly Bosses, but on a compressed scale so that it's set to defend itself after taking X damage or whatever. The "fly" attack is another potential solution for this, if thought out properly.

Finally, I propose that you include Gremlins that ride these dragons. Every form of scary beast should have a variation of a "gremlin rider" because it'd be cool. For no other purpose. Just because it'd be win.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:19

Severage

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In fact, to show just how OP blitz is, it actually outdamages Pepperbox on the mask.

Ah [firestorm], you're kidding me...that thing needs some serious recalibrating.

So..would it be Beast? Or Gremlin?

Or Gremmelbeast? Or Beamlin? Or Beastlin? Or Greast?

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:27

#10

Thunderbog

I PROTECT DRAGONS

For the sake of my beastality family of mines. I shall not.

-1

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:28

#11

Forum-Brady

Unless they made some

@Sev:
Unless they made some mechanic so that the gremlin could be attacked independently of the dragon, or could jump/fall off, it'd primarily just be there for show/to make it look cool, rather than actually changing defences. Although could always give him a rocket launcher to annoyingly shoot at you while you deal with the big, slevverin' beast in your face.
OOOORRR could rig it so that when you kill the dragon, the gremlin jumps down and tries to avenge his noble steed by killing you. With his rocket launcher.

@Bunderthog:
Bestiality family? What kind of home do you come from?!?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:35

#12

Thunderbog

>:(

I'm a forkin lizard dragon, butchy!

And he looks exactly as my father looks like, just not the horns. :v

I WAS BORN FROM THE SWAMP AND LIVE INTO MY NAME TO CREATE MY OWN CITY, PROBLEM BRADY? :D

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:36

#13

Forum-Brady

I don't see a Gremlin Riding

I don't see a Gremlin Riding Velociraptor in that pic /unimpressed.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:46

#14

Thunderbog

brady pls

Still.

-1 to thread.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:16

#15

Severage

...

Some people, you have to know them for a while to understand them.

Thunderbog isn't one of those people.

Some people, you get their first impression, and they stay that way forever.

Thunderbog isn't one of those people.

Some people, you figure out over many conversations their speech pattern.

Thunderbog isn't one of those people.

One person, you never have a clue what the firestorm he is about to say.

That would be Thunderbog.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:21

#16

Psychodestroyer

You're really liking that borrowed word-concept, aren't you Sev?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:24

#17

Severage

@Psycho:

Shut the firestorm up, mecha.

lol.

Yes, it's useful.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:27

#18

Forum-Brady

thunder pls

Don't be petty; help promote Gremlin-with-rocket-launchers-Riding Dragons Of Doom!

Who cares if your bestiality habits get blitzed to death; we'd get to have Gremlin-with-rocket-launchers-Riding Dragons Of Doom!!!

And if we get that, then it's only a matter of time before the Gremlin Riding Velociraptors make an appearance..... o_o

Then the obvious final step is Gremlins in Magitek Armour. Once that gets implemented, we can all die happy.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:28

#19

Severage

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What are these Velociraptors you're talking about?

Sounds like someone came up with a (not exceedingly) clever portmanteau between 'velocity' and 'raptor'.

Did you just make that up?

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:32

#20

Psychodestroyer

Almire, Sev, you haven't go a Scorcher's chance in Frostbite, do you?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:35

#21

Severage

...

Hey hey, you're cheating now. Scorcher is a real aussie slang word, not from SK.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:45

#22

Psychodestroyer

Well, by that Logic, Firestorm is a Special form in KG Birth By Sleep, IIRC.

Also Mecha is a common slang-short form for Mechanaloid.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:49

#23

Severage

@Psycho:

"Firestorm is a Special form in KG Birth By Sleep, IIRC."

Wut.

"Mecha" can also pertain to Spiral Knights though, I mean that's kinda what we are.

No bloody scorchers mate!

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:54

#24

Psychodestroyer

Mybad, KH Kingdom Hearts. Use fire-based commands to fill up most of your Command bar and enter the Firestorm state. All moves become Fire attributed and you get a new set of moves. Fill the Command bar without moving into another Command style to use the Firestorm Finisher.

"No bloody scorchers mate!"

Sore loser :P

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:04

#25

Thunderbog

thread has been derailed

i did not ask for this

but it has happened

i win

I ACCEPT NONE OF DRAGON SLAUGHTER

GO HOME TO YER MOTHERS

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:13

#26

Infernus-Dragneel

This would be a fun addition!

I want those dragons! I wannnnnnt them! +1
But the health seems a bit OP, maybe decrease it a little.

Imma dragon which slays other dragon! Imma Dragon Dragonslayer!
(Arcnologia smiles from afar)

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:18

#27

Zeddy

Why not make it a robot dragon if you're so worried about blitz?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:28

#28

Xxpapaya

The papaya giggles

@Severage
"'Xia' is my last name ^^"
"o_o Is ony your first name? :p"
Nah, my first name is Jonathan =) The origin of the family name "Xia" was from the first emperor of China(^.^) I think XD

Ok, I'm off topic, time to get back on =)

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:29

#29

Xxpapaya

The papaya smiles

Every time someone mentions Dragons, I think of this http://kojikoji.exteen.com/images/Monster_Horntail.png :3

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:30

#30

Thunderbog

@Zeddy

I approve... of mechanical dragon slaughter. >:)

Because they aren't real organic dragons... >:)_

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:48

#31

Infernus-Dragneel

Rawrrrr

Well, i just got this idea:
How about put dragons in the rest of the other types? Like a mechanical dragon for construct, shadow dragon for fiend, elemental dragon for beast and so on....

Maybe dragons can be used to replace mobs, keep the health the same way you put them.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:56

#32

Juances

Why dragons?
Fiends could have Giant Spiders
Slimes..... bring back Green Jelly
Constructs.... tortodrone!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 06:34

#33

Forum-Brady

I'd love a robot dragon.

I'd love a robot dragon. Just another boss for my Pepperbox to show off in front of blitz metagamers who don't even know Pepperbox exists.

What's that mr. gremlin-driven robot dragon? You spit fire? Well how about I spit a dozen FIRE BULLETS and see how you like it, k?!?!?!?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 06:52

#34

Severage

...

Nah, my first name is Jonathan

What a coincidence, my brother's name is Jonathan... =P

Back on topic? NEVAH!

Oh, yes, construct family dragons r gewd. Although a Blitz will probably still out-damage an iron slug.

~Sev

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 08:40

#35

Juances

Give it invincinbility frames. Blitz problem solved.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 09:20

#36

Zaffy-Laffy

If not we can have smaller

If not we can have smaller dragons as normal enemies ^^ Thunderbog is gonna hate me :3

Smaller versions of dragons : About the size of a wolver, but with wings @q@

Perhaps take out the tail spin attack and swipe attack.... Tier 1 will have biting only, Tier 2 will have Dragon breath, and Tier 3 flying!!!!

Health : 100-200 for Tier 1, 500-800 for Tier 2, 1200-1600 for Tier 3, and they can fly to dodge bullets :3 Take that blitz!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 09:43

#37

Little-Juances

Put greaver wings on a chromalisk as part of an evil gremlin experiment. Funny small 'dragons'

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 09:55

#38

Vtipoman

Dragons-enemies? No.

Dragons-enemies? No. Dragons-bosses-maybe... Dragons-story characters- sure!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 09:58

#39

Zaffy-Laffy

I do remember a thread some

I do remember a thread some time ago, talking about nerfing fiends and buffing beasts... This is exactly the type of buffing :3

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 11:44

#40

Doctorspacebar

POO TIS POW!

Right, Dragons. I remember making a fairly dragon-related suggestion earlier, but that was sort of a Dragon-combined-with-a-Chromalisk kind of deal.

How to make them resist the Blitz? Simple. They've got big tough wings, right? So if they get hit with one bullet, they start flapping their wings and deflecting ranged attacks. If it goes so far as turning the attacks against the user, it could well discourage Blitz entirely.

Adding armored scales on their backs that resist piercing, but let, say, elemental damage do neutral damage (or close to it) when it hits the scales (we can say they conduct elemental energy), would be an interesting gimmick. Either assault the front with the Blitz (and probably get the shots blown back in your face for massive damage) or hit the back with a non-Piercing weapon (like a Brandish, or a Calibur, or the Pepperbox).

Now, how do they attack? The obvious, of course; clawing your face off, biting your face off, tail smacking your face off, burning your face off... of course, there's always the ice dragon that instead freezes your face off, or the thunder dragon that zaps your face off, or a poison dragon that... uh... poisons your face off. And a normal variant, perhaps, could... uh... stun your face off... even though that makes zero sense.

Also, the Dragon might appear in a treasure hoard that it uses in battle. Getting a treasure chest dropped on your head is going to hurt. Of course, he could also have the following in his hoard:
-Anvils (Normal/Stun, and they're such a classic)
-Office supplies (Shadow)
-Jars of... something (it could be a jar of ELEMENTAL FIRE that BURNS YOU TO A CRISP, or a jar of Slime that releases a Slime the same type as the Dragon... but probably not Jarate)
-Rare jewels always fit a Dragon's hoard... and let's say they are actually exploding Shard Bombs.
-Of course, you can always fit in regular bombs, as well. A Dragon dropping a Dark Retribution or Dark Briar Barrage would be pretty cool.
-And, of course, the usual gold and treasure chests. Wouldn't be a dragon's hoard without 'em. If gold conducts electricity, it could give the thunder dragon a nasty advantage as well... stay off the gold.

We all know dragons roar. And they roar loud, not a "Rawr", but a "RAWWWWWWWRRRRRRRGARRRRRRRRRRR". That's definitely got potential for Stunning and Normal damage.

Finally, the flunkies that appear with the dragon. Chromalisks are scaly lizards that are an obvious choice. Undead also work, for the dragon that doesn't like to crunch their victims' tooth-breaking bones, just char-broil the flesh until it's golden-brown and crispy. Dragons were always smarter than your typical lizard, so maybe they'll put some robots up. Finally, Fiends seem like the type to tame (or at least get along with) a killer scaly monster with bat wings.

So, there you have it. Some ideas for dragons. I for one am never averse to new enemies in general (unless they're too weak or just flat out cheap, like Scorchers before their nerf (from what I hear, they used to be insanely overpowered, more so than Fiends)).

And finally, who needs FUS RO DAH, when you have POO TIS POW?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 12:52

#41

Softhead

Or have all autogun lines extreemly nerfed against them.

Like the damage is regular specilised with flourish, but weak with autoguns.

Why can't it be normal beast family resistances?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 19:09

#42

Skyguarder

dis idaer is awsum i liek dis idear ad tink dat dis idear wil go thorugh

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 19:10

#43

Skyguarder

dis idaer is awsum i liek dis idear ad tink dat dis idear wil go thorugh

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 19:19

#44

Thunderbog

someone save me from dying.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 19:21

#45

Psychodestroyer

No.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 08:59

#46

Myphenox

maybe not too be honest

guys one major reason y spiral knights is such a great game is that its different. while also giving the old classic sensation from the old breaking boxes. if they added in such traditional things it would kinda of spoil it. if we do include dragons or any traditional enemies, we should at least revamp them in style. i mean have u seen how many games include dragons? its ridiculous.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:07

#47

Aaronssd

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Dragons as Enemies!