Spiral Knights - Nerf Devilites (Read first before commenting)

Nerf Devilites (Read first before commenting)

31 replies [Last post]

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 05:45

Chainguy

I bet to whoever is reading this will think "Oh look it's this thread again". well i don't care because for myself, i cant stand the little annoying devilites anymore and it's time for me to complain or "Suggest" about them.

First, the way they attack you and stuff just makes it way too hard to deal with them, this is much worse when they are in groups. Most of the time you need just sheer luck to kill a group of them with very little if not no damage taken. From what i seen, they have caused more Total Party Wipes then any other monster.

I'm fine with other fiends like Trojans and Greavers as their pattens are not too hard to learn but Devilites? Well it's like you cant because they attack completely randomly. Those that said that they attack while you stand still for a split second are incorrect, i have seen many times they attack while you are on the move.

The nerf i am suggesting is ONLY a minor one, not a major one so read this before posting:

Make them not lock onto you while they are trying to attack/throw. At first likely, you think this would be a useless nerf. Well it isn't, think about it for a minute or two. A Devilite trys to throw at you but in the place you were standing when it started to throw, so if you moved out of that spot, the Devilite will miss.

Devilites will still be hard to deal with in groups or a single one when you attack them head on as they got a clear shot at you. i have seen quite a few times myself or another person dies to a single one because it locks onto you while throwing. Their attack is hard if not impossible to avoid if you are very close to them as they turn around to lock onto you very quick.

So how about it, a single Devilite will not be hard to deal with but groups will still be. You try to attack a group of Devilites and then move out of the way they are going to throw at but you were not fast enough so ya get hit.

Now thanks for reading, now you can disscus or argument over this.

Random Fact: Fiend is the only monster family that does not appear in the Unknown Passage.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:17

Hexzyle

So you're suggesting to

So you're suggesting to remove devilite tracking also? I disagree. I'd rather the tracking be RE-ADDED to wolvers, retrodes and zombies. Then devilites won't be the single hardest mob in the game ;)

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:19

Zaffy-Laffy

Devilites gets out huge

Devilites gets out huge TVs
Aims
Fire!

Strong for a couple of jellybeans...

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:20

Myqpalzm

And SK become a hardcore

And SK become a hardcore game. ;P

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:34

Chainguy

@Hexzyle

Only when they are trying to attack. I WOULD be fine if that got readded to those other monsters as those are way too easy to deal with. Even if that got re-added to them, they still by far wont be harder then Devilites.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:37

Shamanalah

I disagree

Even though I hate and despise Devilish and would rather fight a pack of trojan, wolves, rocket turret and fire/poison jelly together.

I think the tracking is what makes them... them?

I mean they can only hurt you once, unlike the alpha wolver tracking that could (and still can) hit you twice.
I think they are perfect the way they are. You just need to deal with a pack of devilish?

My suggestion would be to block, swing flourish then reblock, rinse/repeat, also your third swing makes them not attack so... put one in corner and attack away!

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:45

Chainguy

@Shamanala

That does NOT work when they are in groups, which they are 90% of the time. If you block with your shield, the others would attack and if they timed their attacks right, can cause the shield to take damage every time after it's taken a hit until the shield breaks then you start to take the amount of damage they would do, taking loads of damage or dying in the progress.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 06:57

Alpha-Stevo

I go out of my way to avoid

I go out of my way to avoid fiend-themed stratum JUST because of how ridiculous they are. Any other fiend is fine; but devilite's are plain silly with how they currently are. I take less damage from being swiped by a ZOMBIE then I do by a fiend's projectile.

A close range, slow moving swipe from a slow enemy, that supposively makes up for it's attack speed with it's power does more damage to me than a little office worker who throws PROJECTILES at a very fast speed. Not only that, but their attacks do NOT cause invincibility, so it is literally possible to have your health reduced to zero in a matter of seconds. And this is all whilst wearing shadow-resistant gear.

Fiends are fast, I understand that, but Devilite's are fast AND strong. At least reduce the amount of damage they do, and make shields MATTER to them. Losing to them now doesn't even FEEL like I did something wrong; it feels more like the computer cheated.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 07:00

Shamanalah

@Chainguy

So what about the frozen Danger Mission (Coeur en Glace in french so my translation of that would be Frozen Heart?)?

You never do it? Because you have devilish with wolver with trojans with turrets? (there are couple of though arena there but it does work)

It work when they are in group. I do it every 4 day. (whenever THAT Danger Mission is there)

So IDK what to say... I hate devilish but can cope with them

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 07:12

Chainguy

@Shamanala

I have no choice but to do Heart of Ice because i do it for prestige. I was fine with Devilites back then when i first joined but over time, i got more enraged at them till i reached breaking point.

It does not always work when they are in a group, most of the time you need luck. They still attack on the 3rd swing, THEY can miss however on that 3rd swing as it moves you about 3 blocks but it needs good timing to do so to make them miss. you can of course hit them all if they are lined next to each other but most of the time they ain't. There will likely be one that will throw at you while you are dealing with one or more. Like i said above, they can lock you into place if they time their attacks right when shielding, resulting most of the time breaking the shield.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 08:14

#10

Grittle

HEY, My Advice? GET SKELLY

HEY, My Advice?

GET SKELLY SHIELD, it takes 15 T3 Devilite hits to break it.... when its 4*

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 09:08

#11

Hexzyle

...

Devilites can be interrupted if hit. Devilites can hit you if you're not moving. Cutter FTW?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 09:10

#12

Otakuwolf

I suggested another nerf some time ago

Some time ago i suggested another different kind of nerf to the devilites: theyr attack speed.
I've picked that because as soon as the devilites attack the player has no time to activate the shield unless he's very far from them, and it's also because of the attack speed that groups of devilites become so frustrating: because of the quantity of projectiles on screen.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 10:57

#13

Doctorspacebar

As a bomber, I have to say Greavers are much worse. DBB destroys Devilites.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 14:28

#14

Severage

...

Those that said that they attack while you stand still for a split second are incorrect, i have seen many times they attack while you are on the move.

This is only half true. They DO only attack when you don't move in a specific direction. If you stand still, they attack, but if you move in one straight line for a couple seconds, they will attack as well. They will almost never attack you if you are moving sporadically, unless you were not their primary target.

Also, if you are very close to them, no matter which movements you make, they tend to attack till you get further away. This is because with their tracking you can hardly dodge it, so they have a fairly certain chance of hitting you in this case.

Make them not lock onto you while they are trying to attack/throw.

Basically, remove tracking. This nerf was applied to Alpha Wolvers/Wolvers, and they went from OP to utterly useless and one of the weakest families now. I suspect the same would happen to the last difficult family in the game.

Greavers are definitely harder for gunners who are not using AoE guns, and bombers. For swords, Greavers are no trouble at all - a FF/Rigadoon/Flamberge/BTB takes care of them like a cinch.

While I agree they are the hardest enemies in the game, I wouldn't nerf them personally. If only because they are the LAST challenging enemies in Spiral Knights.

~Sev

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:30

#15

Alpha-Stevo

@Severage

Last challenging or not, all the enemies should be around the same level of difficulty. If Devilites are nerfed, I'd still want other families(like wolvers and zombies) to be buffed a bit, since they're utter jokes at the moment.

Even out the playing field a bit.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:48

#16

Severage

@Stevo:

Sure, no problem with that.

Except that the other enemies need to be buffed first. Then I'd be willing to bring the tough enemies down to their level.

~Sev

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 07:30

#17

Leafblader

moo

I have a vog cub cap and coat, a voltedge and an AP.
The last 2 times I ran the white collar captives prestige mission and the time when I ran a feind stratum in the arcade I only got hit once or twice each devilish drudgery. I don't think devilites are so bad. I almsot ALWAYS die in infernal passages. I don't die because of devilites but because of a flock of greavers. Devilites are fine. Greavers are demonic killers. Rocket puppies and greavers are the bane of my existence.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 07:48

#18

Severage

@Leaf

I find Greavers easier than Devilites...

If you have a flourish of any kind, greavers really are sitting targets. Then again, you're using Elemental defense gear and a voltedge - I can see why you would have problems.

~Sev

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 09:39

#19

Skold-The-Drac

Due to the above posts...

I believe an extremely brief summary of my arguments can be doled.

1. Fiends (Devilites rather expressly) are the end all be all difficult enemy for me, removal of that last difficulty turns this game into Happy Funtime Land... not SK.
2. Bring other monsters up before CONSIDERING a devilite nerf.
3. Devilites + Bombs = not as expressly hard
4. For once, allow us to think on our feet, rather than attempt to bother snoring through another level, or do you want more pictures like the lumber challenge being made for people to prove their skill rather than simply SURVIVING that which is created?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 10:09

#20

Mohandar

Guy has a point.

Devilites are hard because they represent a combination of particular traits:
1. They are dodgy
2. They track while attacking
3. They are ranged
4. They have a very short telegraph period
It is the last three become a problem for people with high ping, because they simply can't dodge- by the time a devilite starts telegraphing, there isn't enough time to move out of the way because it tracks you (and continuous shielding is not an option). The range also means that simply stepping back or keeping your distance isn't enough. Removing tracking would make them more fair.

Along those lines, Wolvers need to have tracking added back- they are silly easy now. Doing so would also make them nice counterparts to devilites in terms of behavior- both are dodgy, but one has a fast, non-tracking linear ranged attack, while the other has a slower, tracking melee attack. Tracking should also be added to chromas and scuttles, imo- they would still be cannon fodder, but at least they would be somewhat more dangerous.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 11:12

#21

Heavy-Dragon

As much as devilites infuriate me:

I find their combat structure to be entirely fitting!

Here you have a group of hellish little underlings who are overworked, over-caffeinated, underpaid, who generally have enough sense to run shops and businesses and manage cities.

I'd think a hyperactive little stressed-out devil would be almost infuriatingly annoying to combat.

As was said before, it makes them, them. Even though they're [insert adjective of choice] crazy with how unpredictable they are, it works, and is a nice fast-paced turn of atmosphere from slow charging alphas, lumbers, zombies, lisks.. what have you.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 15:12

#22

Leafblader

The cow is not in the blarg on friday.

Although devilites are easy for me they are still some of the tougher enemies.
The funny thing is the exclamation mark in a devilish drudegery says that although devilites are now much of a threat on their own they become much worse when a pit boss appears. It's funny because devilites are a BIG threat on their own.
The hardest thing in the game: swarm greavers and devilites.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 16:48

#23

Juances

All you have to do is kamikaze run towards them. Fiends are fast, but easily flinch after a hit or 2. Forget about your shield.

They are some sort of 'glass cannon'

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:20

#24

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop

As a gunslinger, the entire Fiend family is kind of one big sack of annoying. Most of them are fast moving and all have some way to deal with ranged attacks.
- Trojans block everything from the front, don't attack unless in melee range meaning their weakpoint is always guarded, and can get pretty close with that dash.
- Greavers can close distances in the blink of an eye and generally stay out of shield bump range, but within their attack range. On higher tiers they get a status cloud and eventually their melee becomes a hybrid ranged attack. If there's a swarm of them, they begin circling around as well as they vie for a choice spot to beat the stuffing out of you.
- Devilites can attack from long range with ease with the one of the fastest enemy projectiles in the game, are highly mobile, dodge ranged attacks, and become even more dangerous with a Pit Boss around. They also throw those office supplies pretty rapidly, faster than turrets in my opinion. Nearly a death sentence if there's an entire work force of these guys around.
The entire family becomes even more of a nuisance if you're going solo. They're all generally strong as well, something I don't find fitting for baddies that fast with as much health as most other enemies. Well except for Trojan. He needs to be strong tank if he were to work right. The entire family can just really annoying at times.
And that's the thing (for me anyways), they're annoying. Not so much hard, as terribly annoying.

I agree with a lot of the vets though about the difficulty of the game becoming far too easy. Upping the difficulty of all the other monster families in various ways would be wonderful. It shouldn't be that the only level type you ever fear is one populated by Fiend monsters. We should be fearful of all the monsters in some way. Though they should never be annoying over difficult.
So do what a lot of them have suggested. Add tracking back to a lot of the other monsters' attacks, buff up the slower enemies, nerf some fast ones, etc. and reduce annoyance while upping the challenge.

Though this is only the opinion of a gunslinger. I'm not sure how hard or easy the Fiends are for everyone else...

P.S. Also, why is it that the only guns us 'slingers have that have Pierce damage on them, require us to stand still? All of the enemies Pierce is effective against (Fiends especially) are fast, so why have us rooted to the ground? It seems kind of silly......

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:00

#25

Severage

...

inb4 Piercing Antigua Line...

Owait...already happened. Multiple times. :P

~Sev

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:14

#26

Lezlyblaze

-_-

@Chainguy
Devilites are not hard to kill it just takes a little dodging skill. They take like 2 shield-cancel twisted Snarble barb swipes.... >.>
Your parties must really suck....

Sat, 12/22/2012 - 15:24

#27

Niichi

The one thing I would like is a slightly longer telegraph period for their attacks. It's rare to see a devilite telegraphing an attack and actually be able to respond to it. If you dodge or block it, it's probably because you were already dodging or blocking to begin with.

But I'd like to see this go hand in hand with buffs to other monster families. It's just so strange to see such a large gap in difficulty between the fiend family and any of the other monster families.

Sat, 12/22/2012 - 22:56

#28

Hexzyle

How to combat devilites?

Strafe, strafe, and more strafe.

Just like how if you want to live against Mecha Knights, stay out of their "engagement zone" or use a weapon that can interrupt them.

Sun, 12/23/2012 - 13:20

#29

Skold-The-Drac

Dat dodge

Blitz v. Devilites...
Everything, flying everywhere. Also, inb4 decent normal damage weap-owait

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 10:50

#30

Newbek

Bingle! Dingle! Bongle! Dangle!

Im just Tier 2,and yet,i think devilites are ok in my book.

I dont know how do they lock on you,maybe they have a lock-on target system for an eye.
Since dev's are weak to piercing,you know what weapon would be perfect against them? Staple guns.

Or better yet: Make a gun that can take 1 winmillon staple's and shoot put it into a minigun.
Wait,thats the Blitz Needle!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 11:52

#31

Severage

...

Since dev's are weak to piercing

LIES! Nick is an Impostocube - he's resistant to piercing.

~Sev

Search

Nerf Devilites (Read first before commenting)