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Fehzor's Amazing Arcade Construction Idea (And other ideas from other people too!)

11 replies [Last post]
Tue, 12/18/2012 - 12:40
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I thought of this a while ago, and posted it in my suggestions forum book a while back, but I'd like to bring it up again on its own thread because I think its just that awesome.

What if players could actually control the arcade? Not just by dumping in minerals to form a false democracy dictated by which boss stratum players ran the most, but a true way of "controlling the world" for guilds and single players with 6000+ minerals alike.

What I'd like to see done, specifically:
Boss stratums should not be biased towards a theme when creating mineral crystals

Currently, arcade generation is left up to chance, and chance is left up to the boss stratums giving out more of one type of mineral and less of another. Given the nature of the boss levels, and their tremendous draw in of players due to money+awesome, they should not in my opinion give out any more of one or another mineral. Other levels doing so is more than fine, although is unneccessary.

-Remove the "Sell all mats" factor, and create a drop box that pays out more for minerals (always 5 per mineral.) These minerals would then be buyable at the deposit box for a price and would be placed into wherever that buyer put them.

Think of it as replacing the button for "sell all mats." If you want to just sell your mats for quick money, all power to you- there are those of us whom want to build gates. Or there should be. The price of a mineral attained in such a manner would be determined by how full the box is. If there are 10 of each mineral in the box, each mineral might cost as much as 10K, but chances are there will be far more than that of them in this box. This price will scale so as to prevent a surplus or not in the box.

-More specialized and sophisticated level generation.

"Stratum theme" and such are not so exciting when they are reused over and over, why not have the ability to generate unique levels using an algorithm? Like for instance, take the clockwork tunnels levels, and make it so that they can be mashed with other bits of other levels and so on to form multi-monster levels. There are many ways that this could be done, and many more ways that it would be awesome.

How it would work:
First, add a 2nd variable to the clockwork tunnel generating algorithm for a 2nd stratum type. This is the secondary one, and will merge with the "main theme" for a few levels. When the algorithm goes to create levels, it will occasionally add branches with that type of monster going off to the side. There would still be pure stratum themes- these would occur in the middle of the stratum.

There are many ways that this could work, so choosing one would not be too hard.

-An item or so that could be used to spawn a set of levels in the arcade- for instance, "Heart of Ice Core" would be used to change an ice/fiend stratum into the heart of ice mission set.

First off, this is just how I imagine this to go down.

Creating the item:
A single knight or a multitude of knights would get together and say "We want to create HoI for a week so that we can fight it and have a grand old time!" They would then gather their materials and head to an alchemy machine found someplace and craft the "core" as I have nicknamed it. The "Core" would require a recipe to create, and this recipe could either be learned by a single knight, or be learned by a guild machine such that the guild use it. The recipes for these types of things could come from a variety of sources- basil, random drops, lockboxes, token items, wherever.

The recipe would cost a TON of materials. I'm talking ten thousand scrap metal a pop, 1000 trojan horse shoes, pending on the recipe. Cheaper versions for T2/1 would be available as well- these would still cost a lot, but less.

Rewards for using the item:
Increase drops during the run for all! Not crown drops mind you, but equipment drops. And by equipment I do mean costumes and other such things, as well as perhaps new weapons and armors, or existing armors/weapons that are underused. Speaking of which-

-Increased chance for item drops, and introduction of certain costume armors as item drops.(That is- Surge armor; hunter armor; frosty armor, those)

Actual items would still be just as rare as ever, but it should be expected to receive a costume armor drop perhaps 1/20 full arcade runs or so? Keep in mind that for the most part, these would be new sets of recoloured armor, so that the older ones would keep their value. Auras and accessories would also drop to the theme of the level. This adds an air of mystery and frustration to the game that I particularly enjoy.

-Remove the elevator costs going down into the arcade.

This goes without saying- the arcade should be free if the missions are free, and the missions should be free.

I'll probably update this thread with other ideas from other places as time goes on, unless I forget about it. Like Luiguru's post, but I've got to go now. Will add his ideas later, as I like many of them.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 12:54
#1
Oatmonster's picture
Oatmonster
Lick Number 58425

I assume you're talking about the thing where minerals are less likely to spawn in a stratum that used that type of mineral in its creation? Sure, right now I can imagine that most of the minerals in the game are the opposite of whatever fire themed minerals are.

So you could sell all your minerals for 5 cr without affecting gate construction, and then people who do want to change gates can pay to use the stored minerals? Sure, ok. What would happen to extra minerals? Or is it just a box completely seperate from gate rotation?

Yes, I'm picturing something like C42, except you actually get to interact with the grassy parts. Comming up with an algorithm for the level generation shouldn't be that difficult, they've already got something similar in clockwork tunnels and other randomized levels.

The "Heart of Ice Core" seems interesting, although you would need to describe how you get it.

I personally don't think old promotion items should be made available to re-purchase in featured auctions, cough metal sonic cough, and they definitely shouldn't be made available as free, random drops. I'm all for adding new costumes though, maybe they could be based on the main type of monster/status in the level you found them in? They would also need to add a better drop system if they added this in. Maybe everyone in the party gets one, but they are all bound?

By elevator costs I assume you mean the 200 and 500 cr fees? If so, I support it, and I also think they should move those fees into the mission system.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:22
#2
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

There are a few other things I would like to add to this.

With boss strootims, making them appear as normal stratums. That means if a certain combination is not made no boss stratum will appear in that gate. This would also mean creating something to limit boss mission repeating for missions so everyone gets less of bosses. Boss tokens become more difficult to obtain and the high paying floors are more difficult to access.

Some kind of reward for doing Arcade floors consecutively. A lot of people figured out a while go the second stratum in each of the three tiers has a higher payout than the one before it. There were some threads on this, like making the payouts directly relevant to how many floors you have done in a row so everyone has their own separate payouts, but that just means more crowns for people who can afford elevator passes and burning CE who get wealthier while everyone else is stuck with lower payouts. There was something else where it used the same accumulating reward for doing more floors without going back to town but instead of increasing payouts you got tokens which you could use to unlock special recipes for completely new equipment, but you still had to pay for the recipes; the tokens were just to gain access to a secret shop. Imagine something like Basil but you need a certain amount of these special Arcade tokens to open their store every time, that same NPC having random recipes like Basil does but with special recipes thrown in the mix. Having to pay tokens every time you open the shop means people have to keep collecting tokens if they want access next time they see them.

Doing stuff with materials. How many people have over one thousand of at least one kind of material? Pretty much everyone around 4~5*. What do we do with these materials? Vendor them for some extra crowns? We use a little for crafting right now, but at the end of the day we still have several pantsfulls of materials unused. Should we just craft more often? That would use a lot of energy. We want to use that energy for doing floors to get more crowns and even more materials, not sinking a resource which becomes more abundant every day. People are constantly going in the Clockworks and digging up a bunch of materials, but are an approximate equal to that supply being consumed by crafting? With some materials used to craft commonly used equipment like Wolver armor and Brandishes, yes. What about the other stuff? Collecting dust. And rust. But no trust.

Putting cosmetic rewards in the Arcade. What are people flopping around for today? Hats. Ribbons. Pretty dresses. I satirize it enough by sitting around town blabbing about how the game is now about who can wear the frilliest and pinkest ballerina tutu, but at this point I question if that can be said as sarcasm. One day Three Rings is probably going to release that as a costume. A Wolver reskin with a pink frilly tutu. It will happen. What the liquids? Why? They gave us robot bunny ears, weird noodle cat tails, and all kinds of wings. Does anyone else remember the sci-fi part of this game? Are we supposed to be furries now? You gave the kiddies their fluffy hats and ears and nostril hair. Can we move on now? Surge. Oh, okay. Does it have unique models like all those things before it? No. Just reskins. What was I talking about? Cosmetics. If you ask me we already have more than enough cosmetics, but if you ask anyone else there is never enough and cosmetics should be everywhere. Sure. You go do that. Go put those shoes down your pants to be the prettiest lady at the ball. I have no idea.

What else can I complain about besides everything. Minerals. We collect them, bring them to the surface, dump them back in. Get a little money for the effort. Gameplay monotony. Combat gets repetitive. What else do we do down there besides kill stuff by headbutting its face? Puzzles. What kind of puzzles do we have? Stupidly simple ones. Puzzles includes map specific enemies like Phantoms and Grimalkins. They get in your way, they never die, and you have to deal with them or run away with your tail between your legs. The tail you got from a cosmetic promo earlier with the pretty little bells and nostrils dripping snot all over the floor behind you. If anything tries to chase you the snot will slip it up. On the maps we have some puzzles which take a couple seconds to get through, but other than that it usually boils down to hitting wildly around you until something happens. In one of the Scarlet Fortress maps they have this short hall after a battlement with three gates in a row blocking the path to continue and three purple-yellow switches. You would think this would take a while to figure out, right? Nurp. Hit them until something happens. What if hitting the gates only moved when you stand on a pressure pad in front of the first gate, so you only know if you got the right combination after messing with the switches then running over to check, but if you get the wrong combination it spawns enemies with no drops? If you just wildly flop around on the switches nothing happens because you would have to be on the pressure plate a short distance away to check if a combination is correct. If you mindlessly flop combinations without keeping track of which switches open or lower which gates then you get stuck trying random setups. For the mindless spammers they have to figure it out to continue. For the competent dungeon runner it only takes a pinch of patience and a little dance when they get through.

The other thread is over there for those curious.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:30
#3
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir

There are a few other things I would like to add to this.

With boss strootims, making them appear as normal stratums. That means if a certain combination is not made no boss stratum will appear in that gate. This would also mean creating something to limit boss mission repeating for missions so everyone gets less of bosses. Boss tokens become more difficult to obtain and the high paying floors are more difficult to access.

Some kind of reward for doing Arcade floors consecutively. A lot of people figured out a while go the second stratum in each of the three tiers has a higher payout than the one before it. There [BUTERFLIES ARE EVIL MAN]were some threads on this, like making the payouts directly relevant to how many floors you have done in a row so everyone has their own separate payouts, but that just means more crowns for people who can afford elevator passes and burning CE who get wealthier while everyone else is stuck with lower payouts. There[ :} ] was something else where it used the same accumulating reward for doing more floors without going back to town but instead of increasing payouts you got tokens which you could use to unlock special recipes[TREES HATE YOU!] for completely new equipment, but you still had to pay for the recipes; the tokens were just to gain access to a secret shop. Imagine something like Basil but you need a certain amount of these special Arcade tokens to open their store every time, that same NPC having random recipes like Basil does but with special recipes thrown in the mix. Having to pay tokens every time you open the shop means people have to keep collecting tokens if they want access next time they see them.

Doing stuff with materials. How many people have over one thousand of at least one kind of material? Pretty much everyone around 4~5*. What do we do with these materials? Vendor them for some extra crowns? We use a little for crafting right now, but at the end of the day we still have several pantsfulls of materials unused. Should we just craft more often? That would use a lot of energy. We want to use that energy for doing floors to get more crowns and even more materials, not sinking a resource which becomes more abundant every day. People are constantly going in the Clockworks and digging up a bunch of materials, but are an approximate equal to that supply being consumed by crafting? With some materials used to craft commonly used equipment like Wolver armor and Brandishes, yes. What about the other stuff? Collecting dust. And rust. But no trust.

Putting cosmetic rewards in the Arcade. What are people flopping around for today? Hats. Ribbons. Pretty dresses. I satirize it enough by sitting around town blabbing about how the game is now about who can wear the frilliest and pinkest ballerina tutu, but at this point I question if that can be said as sarcasm. One day Three Rings is probably going to release that as a costume. A Wolver reskin with a pink frilly tutu. It will happen. What the liquids? Why? They gave us robot [DERP] bunny ears, weird noodle cat tails, and all kinds of wings. Does anyone else remember the sci-fi part of this game? Are we supposed to be furries now? You gave the kiddies their fluffy hats and ears and nostril hair. Can we move on now? Surge. Oh, okay. Does it have unique models like all those things before it? No. Just reskins. What was I talking about? Cosmetics. If you ask me we already have more than enough cosmetics, but if you ask anyone else there is never enough and cosmetics should be everywhere. Sure. You go do that. Go put those shoes down your pants to be the prettiest lady at the ball. I have no idea.

What else can I complain about besides everything. Minerals. We collect them, bring them to the surface, dump them back in. Get a little money for the effort. Gameplay monotony. Combat gets repetitive. What else do we do down there besides kill stuff by headbutting its face? Puzzles. What kind of puzzles do we have? Stupidly simple ones. Puzzles includes map specific enemies like Phantoms and Grimalkins. They get in your way, they never die, and you have to deal with them or run away with your tail between your legs. The tail you got from a cosmetic promo earlier with the pretty little bells and nostrils dripping snot all over the floor behind you. If anything tries to chase you the snot will slip it up. On the maps we have some puzzles which take a couple seconds to get through, but other than that it usually boils down to hitting wildly around you until something happens. In one of the Scarlet Fortress maps they have this short hall after a battlement with three gates in a [dONT LOOK HERE, ITS JUST A TROLL] row blocking the path to continue and three purple-yellow switches. You would think this would take a while to figure out, right? Nurp. Hit them until something happens. What if hitting the gates only moved when you stand on a pressure pad in front of the first gate, so you only know if you got the right combination after messing with the switches then running over to check, but if you get the wrong combination it spawns enemies with no drops? If you just wildly flop around on the switches nothing happens because you would have to be on the pressure plate a short distance away to check if a combination is correct. If you mindlessly flop combinations without keeping track of which switches open or lower which gates then you get stuck trying random setups. For the mindless spammers they have to figure it out to continue. For the competent dungeon runner it only takes a pinch of patience and a little dance when they get through.

anyway, these are my 100% own ideas on the matter.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:32
#4
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

Go home.

And be a family man.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:38
#5
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir

Go home.

And be a family man.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:39
#6
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

That last one is broken.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:42
#7
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir

i got lazy.
anyway, ill just stop. :)
unless...

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 19:29
#8
Severage's picture
Severage
...

Fehzor...+ Vladmir...+Luguiru...

I'm just going to leave the 6 hours of reading to you guys on this one.

~Sev

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 11:18
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I think I'm just going to let this die now. If people are just going to spammily copy+paste walls of text to kill it and turn people off then I'm not going to fight them.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 12:03
#10
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

Ignore Vliddy Diddy.

We still love you.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 16:56
#11
Aumir's picture
Aumir
About boss stratums - modifications and/or SLs?

What about if inserting X amount of minerals may change slightly the enemies spawned and even hazards? Maybe even turn them into their Shadow Lair versions but without access to Unknown Passage/Sanctuary and adjusted to tier difficulty? Example: creating a tier 2 version of the Ice Queen dungeon when Ice theme is made in the slot where JKPalace would come out.

That would make some difference from the normal versions, already free to access in the Mission Mode, and add to the "random" nature of the Arcade Clockworks, I think.

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