Spiral Knights - Am I understanding this correctly?

Am I understanding this correctly?

28 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:44

Wolf-Of-Winter

Okay, I admit I am still really new to this game, only played a few hours total.
Now, as I understand it, the plot so far is this:

1. We are marooned on an alien planet.
2. We need a large power source to revive our ship and go home.
3. I assume initial negotiations with the gremlins went poorly and they now beleive us to be enemies.
4. Nevertheless I am purposefully entering the subterranean gremlin home world to:
a. hack-n-slash my way through all opposition
b. to get to the core power source and
c. bring it back or otherwise re-route energy from it, right?

From the gremlin point of view, I think this must look very much like an:
1. alien invasion with (robot?)knights embarking on the:
2. genocide of any who stand in their way to:
3. steal/damage/destroy the power source that likely keeps me and my gremlin family alive.

.....huh. Is that right or am I reading too much into this?

P.S.: If it is, it kinda makes me wanna play as the gremlins. Then I could go Independence Day on all of you. That might be a cool PvP mode.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:47

Luguiru

Welcome to the dark side of the Spiral Order.

We may not have frilly dresses or bright pink panties stuffed up our nostrils, but things make more sense otherwise.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 16:22

Thimol

-----

3. I assume initial negotiations with the gremlins went poorly and they now beleive us to be enemies.

Have we missed the part where Gremlins are generally hostile to everything? Go talk to some of the strangers; they can explain. There probably weren't any negotiations.

Also, this thing about the core keeping the gremlins alive seems like wild speculation.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 16:23

Kamen-Rider-Faiz

What dark ritual? also pass

What dark ritual? also pass the cookies

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 17:28

Traevelliath

It's implied that the Gremlins attacked us on sight. If we were attacking Gremlin's on sight, then Emberlight would have been obliterated, or at least hidden from us (Not to mention Punch and Vise would have been in some trouble when they were "inside Vatel's shop when it inexplicably exploded").

When you start reading some of the Echo Stones, deep within the Shadow Lairs, it is implied that the King Tinkinzar (And by extension, the Crimson Order) is suppose to be protecting the Core (Or containing what's inside of it). There is one theory that the Core houses the origin of the Swarm (You'll meet the Swarm in the aforementioned Shadow Lairs, and I believe it's responsible for the Snarbolax and Lord Vanaduke's/Almire's fate), and the Gremlins are trying to prevent us from releasing it upon the world.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 17:53

Little-Juances

"The gremlins were brought to the Clockworks by an unknown means"
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gremlin

Both us and them are being manipulated by a greater power.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:27

Aumir

What Traevelliath said

And welcome here, OP. Time will tell what will happen.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:08

Wolf-Of-Winter

So it looks like...

Okay.
So, home-world or not, the gremlins are likely to be protecting everyone from the Swarm, which we may accidentally release in our haste to have the core.
That would make our quest bad.
-I may as well be one of the aliens from Battle for LA. Or maybe those guys from Halo.

Unless King Tinkinzar n' friends are trying to control the core as a weapon (and thus the Swarm).
That would make our quest good.
-Also most of the gremlins I slaughter would be just "doing what they are told" (Nuremberg defense). And I have no mercy for the Nuremberg defense.

...hmmmm. I would be curious to see a more detailed record of the first contact with the Gremlins as well as the Strangers and other races before drawing a conclusion.

Also, an inside understanding of the gremlin political environment would be helpful. Surely not all gremlins think it wise to mess with the Swarm.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:25

Psychodestroyer

"as the gremlin language is completely indecipherable to any other intelligent race."

Yet somehow we know of Tinkinzar, the Crimson Order, can talk to Seerus, can decipher 'Mending!' and 'Stay Close!' and 'Catch!', and can dicern without speech that the Emberlite colony holds no malice for us, while said friendlies can ask us to help their orphans for Winterfest.

"Maybe they speak our language?"

Then why don't they tell us what's up? There's a whole Colony of friendly Gremlins not comfortable with Tinkerbell; they'd tell us in a heartbeat what his game is and how to beat him if we were going to help them, so why didn't they?

Something smells...like barbecued w-Oh. I left my Vog cap on.

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 01:30

Traevelliath

Look up the Echo Stones on the Wiki, more specifically the one for the Ironclaw Munitions Factory
(Unless you consider it a spoiler, which is why I'm not guna copy and paste anything other than the link to the page: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Echo_Stone#Shadow_Lair_Artifacts
I think the implications of the stone is a bit obvious as to portraying the Crimson Order as "evil." Let's not forget about Project Roarmulus (Destroy Haven) and Compound 42 (Herex essentially ordered them to lock the doors to the compound and burn everything AND everyone to the ground).

Also, the Swarm is more... primeval than that. It kills/corrupts all things, regardless of origin. You have to walk over some dead Gremlin bodies while facing/fleeing from the Swarm in the Unknown Passage, implying that there is no real pact between the Swarm and Gremlins.

To me, Gremlins seem to be more like Guardians that have long forgotten why (or even what) they are guarding. Tinkinzar has clearly gone mad somehow (wouldn't be surprised if the Swarm was involved), and his madness has echoed down the ranks.

Sun, 01/13/2013 - 22:32

#10

Wolf-Of-Winter

Think I'm getting some of it

Think I'm getting some of it now. The gremlins appear to be more organized as separate nations rather than tribes of one.
As Psychodestroyer noted the Emberlite colony holds no malice for us but represents a separate free nation from Tinkinzar and the Crimson Order, who have allied the other tribes against us under his fascist rule.

It somewhat seems similar to an alternate history where America collapsed and the Soviet Union won the Cold War.
Emberlite does not know what the Crimson Order is up to because Tinkinzar would kill anyone who defected to those capitalist pigs!

In this case Emberlite is a new third world country asking for the Spiral Knights (America) to intervene.
Hmmm...best not to let the political analogies go on too long

But, unlike America, the Spiral Knights seem to be blasting their way to Moscow to steal their toys.

We are going to be on Cradle for a while anyway, so as long as we are not in full scale war, why would we not adopt the same tactics America used and fight a war of ideas. The most successful Cold War CIA program was one that used a front to help introduce arts, music, and education to people in communist nations (yes the CIA successfully used hippies to defeat the Red Menace, Google it). Even if they rule by fascism it is difficult to continue creating a false view of the murderous Knights when they always bring your neighbors a few levels up cool books and music.

It seems to me many Gremlins are already jealous of the success of the Spiral Knights. Like America, if we can prove that that works with Emberlite, the tribes that are chafing under Tinkinzar will start to chafe more very quickly, weakening the Crimson Order from within, leading to its eventual collapse.

We just have to avoid directly overthrowing tribes and puppet leaders, don't want a repeat of America's recent history.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 04:31

#11

Shion-Sinx

lol

thats kinda funny if you put it this way

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 07:33

#12

Tahum

"The gremlins were brought to

"The gremlins were brought to the Clockworks by an unknown means and serve as its builders and repairmen"

-where is the gremlin-spaceship? If it is on Cradle, we sold steal/buy it, then the core would remain closed.
-gremlins can build spaceships whit out opening the core?
-there are more Cradle like planets?

(sorry for bad spelling)

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 08:40

#13

Wolf-Of-Winter

Enslaved Grmlins?

Well Tahum, that would explain a little bit, if "The gremlins were brought to the Clockworks by an unknown means and serve as its builders and repairmen" that sounds like slave labor to me.
Probably destroying their original culture and replacing it with one centered around obedience and fear, this seems to have evolved into fascism. (maybe gremlins just aren’t as creative with their freedom as humans).

This also explains why there are no spaceships, (Assuming I'm not missing some backstory) their (evil) masters would not have left a spaceship or shipbuilding material for their slaves to escape with.

Factoring in the slavery, it really does make the gremlins seem like victims here.

And if they built Cradle and left, then there probably are more, they are probably part of a giant death-ray, and we are probably just playing a Halo prequile.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 07:17

#14

Tahum

It's an interesting theoryes

It's an interesting theoryes Wolf-Of-Winter.
In my opinion the Gremlins were brought from an Gremlin ruled planet (like humans on the moon from the earth) to Cradle to repair the core-defending-system, like the colonies of Spain/Portugalia in America or people in space stations. So the Gremlins were brought here by gremlins in spaceship and they didn't want leave this planet because the command was to repair the clockwork.

-there are more Cradle like planets?
If there are or not, I think that they are emergency power supplies for the Gremlin ruled planet (planets?!).

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 09:18

#15

Wolf-Of-Winter

Okay, so maybe not slaves.

Okay, so maybe not slaves. Still, it's unlikely that a fascist ruler would let something as potent as a spacecraft be used by outsiders much-less his own people.

Emberlight probably sees us as an opportunity to overthrow the fascist regime, which is good, even though it means they have an ulterior motive for being our friends. Unless Emberlight's creation was due to them emulating Spiralian ideas that they liked, that would be nicer.

Never the less, as best as I can tell, we seem to be the aggressors in this conflict. I have seen no serious action or attempt by Tinkinzar's forces to assault the surface or Haven. If this is true, then it makes us look kinda bad.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 13:53

#16

Tahum

You know what where the

You know what where the Foreign Legion of French? When the sahara were part of French, they sent the Foreign Legion in military fortresses to guard it.If an soldier escaped,and it wast cached, they give for him penalty or just killed him (between the world wars). The Clockworks is an military fortress what guards the core. There could be gremlins who wanted to escape but probably they are killed or moved to Emberlight.

My enemy's enemy is my friend. If they helping us, I am sure that we well took they out from this damn planet.

We seem to be the aggressors (knights?)? I don't know, but we killed first gremlins and we are stolen the artifact (in tutorial rescue camp). From view point of Gremlins -I think- we are alien invader "landed" on Cradle and who are assaulting the core.

Who knows? On another side of Cradle could be an big, busy spaceship station. Nobody says the we examined the full surface of Cradle.

EDIT: But who attacked first? We asked for help to gremlins before the conflict but they attacked at first sight or we just attacked every moving thing whit out thinking first? I think, the 2. is the correct respond, I don't know how could survive the strangers the meeting (or how many?)( or they are forced the give us home? probably yes).

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 16:03

#17

Wolf-Of-Winter

Hmm, Foreign Legion huh. A

Hmm, Foreign Legion huh. A good point.
Cradle could even be one of several forward bases, screening the Gremlin home world from outside threats (like us). In which case they are following standard operating procedure.

So while officially we may be considered invaders, in this case we are more like neighbors who accidentally trespassed and are trying to leave but the owner does not want to let us use his phone to call a cab. Because we're jerks or something. But of course we're jerks about it! We were like, Oh sorry, I'll just go if I can use your phone (core)... and then Old Man Tinkinzar starts waving his shovel in Alpha Squads face like that old YouTube video. And now our whole possy is here and Old Man Tinkinzar like "I'll call the cops!" and we're like "Go ahead! You hit Alpha Squad in the face with a shovel!", and it all just goes downhill from there.

Should we barge in and take the core? No, it's not ours.
Should Tinkinzar have taken 5 minutes to ask what was up before flipping out? Yeah, he's a jerk. And now he's doubling down (how many people do we know that do that?)
Yes we still look like invaders and in some ways, we are. Not out of malice though.

An unfortunate situation all around and even if Tinkinzar was like "Oh well, here's the energy you need, now leave" I don’t think I could go an leave after seeing all those poor gremlins under his totalitarian thumb-claw. I think I need to F him up. ...jerk.

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 07:42

#18

Tahum

I think that it's the knight

I think that it's the knight race's weakness,
+pros: they are very organized, great warriors and decorous,well-behaved.
-cons: they are first fighting, then/never think about the problem. Just like mini, space Spartans whit *****big weapons (not Halo).
"Strangers are forced the give us home ?"

Anyway, this Tinkinzar needs to control an entire planet, he where busy whit more important things, then when Knights were the next on royal-things-to-do-list, we killed thousands of gremlins and the war was inescapable.

So this Tinkinzar is at least so old as the Clockworks? The Clockworks -for me- looks at least 1000-750 years old, our knowledge about gremlin lifetime is nothing (+they could be genies in science of doctors (yeah, my formulating is "super")). Probably he become old and a little mad, but the most of gremlins are to faithful, staunch to him to choose another king.

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 08:51

#19

Rabeet-Ahsan

Oh my god this is so freakin

Oh my god this is so freakin confusing.Nick could you please step in to explain that how Gremlins came into being.And where the heck did the Cold War and politics come into this come on this is a game please let it remain that way.

P.S I think King Tinkerzar aka Tinkerbell is the creater of the planet and a little bit of The Swarm got out when the Alpha Squad opened the core and infected an area which is now know as the Shadow Lairs.

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 13:37

#20

Wolf-Of-Winter

Hee-Hee

*Snort*, sorry Rabeet-Ahsan, I don't mean for it to be taken any more seriously than a discussion of the obvious economic and class warfare in the Mushroom/Koopa Kingdom conflict. It's just fun to pick apart sometimes and if it makes someone think, great! If not, whatever, I'm having fun.

Most people just gloss over the morals in these things because they are too simple right?
Just look at the Lord of the Rings trilogy. They say Souron is evil but they don’t really say why; other than the Fellowship, Souron's forces are the only non-segregated ones; and those forces are made up of shunned, disenfranchised peoples forced to live in the cracks around a constantly erupting volcano.

My highest character is only just now a soldier and I have been avoiding blatant spoilers, so that may be some of my confusion. I haven’t gotten very far yet.
From what I've heard though, Tinkerzar may not be a Gremlin or even really exist. Could be a computer like in so many of those old Star Trek episodes. In that case we just need a good riddle or something to get it to self-destruct.

I am curious of Nick’s opinion though.

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 15:37

#21

Texlo

Warning: Potentially long-winded response to follow

I believe the backstory goes something like this:

The Swarm is a hostile entity capable of traveling through space. It wishes to infect and control every living organism in the universe. Whatever lives in the core (henceforth refered to as the Thing) was afraid and didn't want to be infected. Whatever it is, it is apparently quite large and gives off a strange and unique energy, the same energy that permeates all of Cradle. It began to tear apart nearby planets and consume them in an attempt to build a protective shell around itself. Essentially, the Thing became a planet-eater in hopes of saving itself from the swarm.

One of the earliest of these planets was home to a race of furry, irritable, natives we know as the Gremlins. They arrived on Cradle when the Thing "ate" their planet, like virtually everything else that lives their. When their planet was torn apart and added to the shell, their leader, King Tinkinzar, made a deal with the Thing. He and his Gremlins would use their mechanical expertise to connect the chunks of planets pulled towards the newly forming Cradle by creating the Clockworks. Shortly after, Tinkinzar went insane for whatever reason and decided to turn the Clockworks into a giant death trap rather than the safe haven from the Swarm that it was supposed to become.

The Thing continued to pull in planets and the Gremlins continued to link the pieces together for an indeterminate amount of time. Eventually, what is now Cradle was formed with the Clockworks inside. One day, a very large ship called the Skylark passed close enough to Cradle to be pulled towards it, whether by gravity or the Thing. The Skylark was carrying a large number of Spiral Knights, members of the Spiral Order hailing from a planet called Isora. These knights naturally wanted to escape this hostile planet, but they could only do so with a large energy source, which could be found in the Core. They soon began delving into the Clockworks in hopes of harvesting the Core's energy and escaping.

Most of Cradle's earlier visitors (Cradle only has one native, the Thing) reacted hostily to the newcomers for various reasons, making it even more dangerous for the knights: the beasts simply because they are animals, the undead and fiends for the obvious reasons, constructs because they were created by the Gremlins, and the Gremlins because they are led by their evil king and his Crimson Order. The knights have since learned of the Swarm and the Thing in the Core, the latter of which has stated it wishes to help them because it believes they are good and just.

The only mystery left is the identity and motivation of the Strangers. Why did they help the knights when everything else attacked them. Are they rely simple merchants? What do they actually look like? Why do they talk like messed up tape recorders?

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 18:51

#22

Traevelliath

I like lore talk, but it would be easier if I didn't have to dance around spoilers :P

Without wishing to spoil too much, at the end of Operation Crimson Hammer, you do find a room with only 8 screens, each with the Crimson Order logo. You'd think that there would be 9, 8 belonging to the other members of The Nine, and one belonging to Tinkinzar himself, but no! There is only 8, which could mean that Tinkinzar doesn't actually exist. In which case, he's probably made up and/or a puppet for The Nine. No one has actually seen him outside of the Crimson Order (or so they say...).

As a fun sidenote, ever looked over the edge of a Clockwork Tunnels level? You'll need to set your graphics to high (maybe medium will work) to get a good look, but there are definite "Cranes" that are moving large spheres, which I presume are levels, into massive Cogs. If you look closely at these cranes, there are, what appears to be, windows. That means the Gremlins probably operate the clockworks personally.

Thu, 01/17/2013 - 12:39

#23

Wolf-Of-Winter

Our ship may have been pulled

Our ship may have been pulled in huh? That could change where the fault for this situation lies.

If Tinkerzar is part of the Core now, then it really does sound like one of those old Star Trek episodes.

Also if the Swarm is such a threat to the universe then it may be our duty as awesome robo-knights to stay on Cradle indefinitely and protect the universe/warn others away. In that case, we'll have to learn to get along with the Gremlins sooner or later.
Our super-science may also eventually find a way to destroy the Swarm, freeing the Gremlins, Core, and Tinkerzar from their responsibility (screw the Prime Directive!)

And I'll bet the Strangers are some kind of ancient robot race that were designed to be helpful.

Thu, 01/17/2013 - 16:51

#24

Hexzyle

@Wolf-Of-Winter

Strangers are operated solely by the snipes.

Thu, 01/17/2013 - 19:31

#25

Wolf-Of-Winter

Snipes

They are behind everything.
They ARE...the Swarm.

Or maybe... the Swarm doesn't exist! The Snipes are probably the three dimensional manifestation of non-corporal lifeforms, and all of Cradle is a test to see who is worthy of the Core's secrets. Only Lord Tinkinzar was wise enough to gain access, but he felt the evil in his own heart and had the Crimson Order construct the Cradle to seal himself inside forever and test the mettle of all who would seek the knowledge of ages~

Thu, 01/17/2013 - 19:35

#26

Orangeo

Hostile gremlins are hostile

Hostile gremlins are hostile because they're hostile. Some are nice, you'd think that they'd inform you not to go to the core if there was a good reason not to aside from personal safety.

King is part of the core, so he's got the evil phazon corruption going on or something. Definite bad guy.

Strangers are controlled by snipes. Kinda like how in medabots where Space Medafighter X/Phantom Renegade are both obviously Henry, but noone notices even though he intentionally drops hints.

Thu, 01/17/2013 - 22:05

#27

Hawxindanite

It says in the echo stone in UIMF

"The architect betrayed the pact"

The above mentioned is describing what Tinkerbell did. Also it mentions that his darkest creation devours anything that gets near it. Now when some "dark" is mentioned in Gameplay, especially in Echo stones, it usually means the swarm. In other words its likely that it were the Gremlins who made the swarm. Also the core recording gives away a lot. Read all the artifacts you will get in the game, you will understand things better.

Fri, 01/18/2013 - 00:16

#28

Master-User

So there's more like tinkerbell..

I'm getting to think that the "prisoner" was like tinkerbell's friend or something because he betrayed the pact. and I think the prisoner made the swarm, because its like he's afraid of what he has made. From what I see its his nightmare not his dream.

Search

Am I understanding this correctly?