Spiral Knights - The Polaris

The Polaris

84 replies [Last post]

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:32

Eater-Of-Worlds

The Polaris has been around for quite a long while. It is a favorite gun of many people in the SK community. It is also a hated weapon in the PvP arena. There are many views on the Polaris. It has the ability, with the right asi, to be put out in rapid succession. It has to ability to shock and destroy targets. It has the ability to throw strikers good distances. It has the ability to block paths. It has the ability to annoy players.

I would like to point out that I am not one of those players to complains about the weapon almost every game. In fact I like it. I use it all the time. I have 3 LD sets and all of them have it. I use it as my side arm and I find it extremely effective for fulfilling my tasks in order to win a game. This being said, I have always thought the weapon needs a nerf. Most preferably a nerf in the chance for shock and the damage out puts. Back when it first came out I remember a bug fix was implemented not too long after. It included a balancing for gunners, and all guns had their damage increased. I honestly thought the Polaris was not one of those guns that needed it. Most weapons in the game have some sort of drawback, but it is my belief that Polaris doesn't. GF is very slow, the FF has a shorter range (finally), the brandish has a skinny area of effect, etc etc. Polaris doesn't really have a drawback to it. If timed correctly there is no need for reload, it fires quite fast, and it shocks and damages very very well. Though the bullets are slow, it can still cover a ton of area when expanded.

There are many views on how the polaris should be balanced. I will list my preferences and why.
Chance of Shock- lowered to 3/4 of current- the high chance of shock can rip too fast through players when one is hit by multiple bullets. Resulting deaths are much too fast for a gun that has such a large area of effect when expanded.
Damage- reduced to the amount before gun boost update- doesn't need to do that much damage if it can be fired so rapidly
Knock back- cut to 3/4- it shouldn't throw recons and strikers as far as it does, often times throws people 5 blocks into shock traps, fire traps, etc - should not be cut farther, if knock back is too low then multiple bullets could land before a player could escape a situation with polaris involved.

Aspects to stay the same:
Speed- firing rate and bullet speed are fine- firing rate is only viewed to be unfair when asi is involved. asi is part of the game and part of how OOO can make money. It is fair, so leave it be. (item is definitely attainable with ask vh without spending money)
Range- it is the same as any other gun. Let it be.

I hope that I can get some support on this thread. I know a nerf would be favored by a large portion of our regularly playing SK community. If you do support this, spread the word, bring more people to this thread, and let it be heard. If you are against this thread, please tell me why, for I would love to hear another point of view in order to double check my own.

UPDATE NEW VIEWS:
Redux in Shock chance.
Redux in clip size -> 2 shot clip.
Redux to knock-back -> 25-35% redux.
Redux to damage (optional) 10-15% (Not necessary if other redux's are made)
SPECIAL EDIT: A Guildy of mine suggested the possibility of Polaris being prismatic. Could make it easier to determine whether the bullet is yours or an enemy's.
I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ ALL COMMENTS BEFORE MAKING ONE OF THEIR OWN.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:38

Quakeman

if the game allow it , im not

if the game allow it , im not against it as such as auto aim , polaris .. and my best , yet the wrost insult making one ... voltaic tempest.

wich voltaic tempest and defender youc an just get on a point and screw eceryone .. this is mine now ... gunners cant get your shield down , polaris is easy to avoid and you save enough time with your shock bomb to get assist from your friend in 40 seconds of charge , drop bomb , shield , run back , charge another bombs and run at people with guns to make them have to fall back even more , repeat

(ash of agni if you see a guy who just dont care and get over your storm circle)

voltaic tempest is a shield destroyer with ability to prevent any shielding / runaway at every 2 seconds.

i remember the time where we went 3 player with voltaic tempest and 3 other with sword and we ended the game 503 / 6

the only negative thing i know about trollaris is not the wepaon itself ... its the stupid user who start to shoot at the enemy you where about to melee pushing him around or doing the same from an enemy you tried to avoid a hit pushing him in your direction

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:07

Troupe-Forums

Agreed on all points but the

Agreed on all points but the knockback and shock chance. I reckon halving both should be sufficient to make it less powerful

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:09

Eater-Of-Worlds

Bombs aren't a problem.

If you carry a gun, you can take out a bomber. They have a limited space to use and must charge the weapon that they are trying to hold a point with. If you can't catch them on the way to a point or knock them off with a gun, then thats your problem. I haven't seen people complain about bombs since the beginning of LD when the shiver was used quite widely. And if you look at LD nowadays, you'll notice the shiver has been countered with skolver. The polaris however, can only be countered with a large amount of shock resist, and even then, it still does considerable damage. Polaris has no natural counter in terms of armor. It needs a balancing. As for bombs, stay out of em and find a way to out-play the bomber.

Also as a note, I'd like this thread to be more about polaris and exclude proposals about fixing other items. Thanks.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:19

Mzculet

But I lub my polaris just like it is :(

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:26

Quakeman

didnt complained about the

didnt complained about the bombs .. its my favorite item , im justs ayign people complain more about my bomb than is een complaingin abotu polaris so why change the polaris?.

also gray feater armor and helm + a shock trinket or a shock variant on the armor and your imune to shock .. add another trinket or variant to fire and your imune to both , countering both my bombs.

you know , its not OBLIGATORY to use wolver line to play pvp ... not because they dont have shock resist that it mean there is no natural defence against trollaris

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:36

Eater-Of-Worlds

Oh I know, also my bad

Sorry misread your last post, tbh it was hard to read the way it was phrased. My Mercurial set is immune to polaris shock, shock bombs, and stun bombs. And when I say natural, I mean all natural. No added anything. And i'm gonna have to say that the top tier of LD players don't complain about bombs. It's only ever complaints against polaris. Therefore I see bombs as something you learn to deal with, and polaris as something that takes too much time to build a resist to, learn to dodge, etc. I just see it to be too powerful atm.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:50

Ailment

Guess I'll lay down my opinion.

As an avid gunner and a member of a guild that is active in PvP, I can say that Polaris has been quite a useful weapon as is.

That being said, I also agree that it is quite powerful. Too powerful.

Let's compare it to a couple weapons that already exist, to which many agree to being balanced.

Valiance, for one, is the most direct 5* gun with a 3 shot clip. It also deals normal damage. Compared to Polaris, Polaris has elemental damage, against neutral enemies does more damage, a tiny bit more reach (with explosion), and shocks. Valiance has fast speed and pushes (mobs) slightly.

Now lets go with a gun just like Polaris, Supernova. Once again, lots of similarities, however, Polaris will always deal more damage, except against wolvers and gremlins. This means little in a PvP situation, where not too many wear Elemental Resist. Now then, the one factor that raises a few eyebrows is how against neutral enemies, Polaris and Supernova do the same damage (not factoring the shock). Factoring the Shock, Polaris does more damage to 4 out of 6 enemies than Supernova, both guns that do (relatively) the same thing.

I would say nerf it, though not quite as much as Eater suggests. Rather, while a much reduced shock rate would be acceptable, keep the knockback. Polaris and Supernova were built for those in mind, but with the large amount of shock Polaris does, it's more of an interrupt weapon. I would reduce Polaris' damage by a small factor, so that Supernova (not counting shock) does more damage than Polaris (by a small amount) against 4 of the 6 enemy types in-game. Range and speed are fine as is. Supernova right now is fine where it is at, bringing Polaris down a bit in it's output will bring it in line.

People will still use it, but it won't be overbearing as it is.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:51

Quakeman

my main language is french ..

my main language is french .. i phrase my stuff weirdly i kno .. i try to iproove .. and no im not using google translator .. wich make me better every time :3

as for trollaris .. they might be the slowest bullets ... maybe its just me because i sue defender since the beginign of pvp and learned to master it because 99% of the rest of my team is fighter and im trying to stay out of the crown and build my uniqueness allt he time (i do not have wolver set and i play since 2 years .. out of snarby .. that i only wear as costume at unknown passage with dread skelly helm)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:55

Quakeman

as for if polaris had to be

as for if polaris had to be nerfed in any way .. id just made the damage incrase and bullet size incrase apear more further .. it shouldnt be 50/50 range before the bullet change .. should be more like 75/25 of the range

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 23:01

#10

Bacon-Strip

I'll have to agree as well. I

I'll have to agree as well. I would also like to see the supernova increase in knockback, and possibly get a damage buff (because normal is terrible), giving both guns a practical use in LD and in the clockworks.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 23:33

#11

Klipik

Change to 1-shot clip.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 01:11

#12

Mrgrey

The trollaris

The polaris puts all other guns to shame for multiple reasons- all of which have been listed. I'd say lower the shock/knockback. It's annoying enough that you don't have to have good aim with it to hit (since the expanded bullets have such big range), if you're going to keep that stupid expanding then there's need to nerf the damage.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 04:43

#13

Msaad

I'll have to give it a big NO.

-1
The polaris is my first weapon and it is also my favorite, i would hate if it was de-buffed.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:02

#14

Quakeman

thats only because you dont

thats only because you dont know better .. try alchemers

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:08

#15

Zeyez

support weapon need to deal less damage than common damage weapons and this weapon have 3 points on support:
pushback
shock
huge AoE on expanded shots

besides i wield one gigawatt (and is my first gun too, @Msaad), i use as "switch trigger"/anti-puppy where i can't reach in sword range
or if i'm dying on next hit, try "keep away" tactic and survive

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:33

#16

Eater-Of-Worlds

Responding

@ Quakeman I actually love the idea of changing the expansion to 75-25. That could solve a lot of problems and make it easier to dodge for a longer distance.

@Bacon Supernova has needed a buff since day 1, its been left in the dust and should have better stats than that of polaris. Pulsar line should be set up the alchemers in terms of damage

@Msaad Care to tell us why it is your favorite?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 06:47

#17

Zeddy

"Polaris has no natural counter in terms of armor."

I beg to differ.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 07:07

#18

Quakeman

@Eater-Of-Worlds not sure if

@Eater-Of-Worlds not sure if i understood right because of my main language so i have no idea if you said alchemer or pulsars should have mroe dmgs .. but defenitelyalchemers should do more... only 2 bullet per clip...

even valliance should be stronger due to the fact its pure neutral with no status

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 09:20

#19

Reqy

@Quakeman I'm pretty sure

@Quakeman I'm pretty sure Alchemers do not need a buff. Umbra and Nova do 5 pips of damage with max damage bonus in Lockdown against players without any defensive resistances. That's 6 shots needed to kill a Skolver Clone Striker with heart pendants. It still may kill with only VH damage(still unsure so correct me if I am mistaken). In most 1v1 circumstances, it doesn't seem to be that effective but you shouldn't underestimate the bounces they can produce in groups or the ridiculous status inducing percentage of the Hail/Magma/Storm Drivers. PvE wise, i believe the alchemer lineup is pretty OP with the use of reload cancelled switching and kiting just about every monster not a Wolver.

Back on topic.

As for Polaris, I'd say definitely lower the shock rate and damage. Most status inducing weapons in this game tend to have reduced damage compared to their non-status dealing counterparts.
I'm not sure however for switching the expansion ratio to a 75-25. It would probably be too much of a nerf in PvE especially in enclose arenas.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 09:22

#20

Quakeman

btu alchemer do less dmgs per

btu alchemer do less dmgs per hit on monsters than polaris .. why is that?

also , 72/25 would be the right thing because .. no .. your not suposed ot use the gun in a close area .. even the gun description say it .. DEAL MORE DMG THE FURTHER IT GOES .. not do full dmgs at people next to you ... 50/50 still overpower when you consider the short range of that weapon compared to valliance and sentenza .. you still get the full power way too close of you

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 09:28

#21

Little-Juances

"even valliance should be stronger due to the fact its pure neutral with no status"
Valiance is as weak as any other normal weapon in the game. You can consider it "balanced" in that aspect.

For polaris, I'd paly with the time and distance it takes for the bullets to expand. Instead of doing it gradually I'd just make them go boom at the end, removing shock and knocback if it hits mid-way.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 09:50

#22

Aureate

@Quakeman

Unexpanded Polaris bullets do damage equal to status alchemers, ignoring ricochet.
Expanded Polaris bullets do damage equal to pure damage alchemers, ignoring ricochet.
This is why certain alchemers appear to do less damage than Polaris.
Alchemers retain their ability to have internal ricochets, and if you tell me that my Nova needs a damage buff then I'll laugh, since it's already perfectly capable of OHKOing turrets, even in larger parties.

Personally, I feel that the damage should be tweaked so that the expanded bullets are equal in damage to status alchemers, and the unexpanded ones have their damage reduced to be in line; reducing the chance of shock status would also help somewhat. Supernova is pretty much fine as it is, though.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:08

#23

Quakeman

@Little-Juances +1 im all

@Little-Juances
+1

im all about reducing full power for midway so that work too

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 13:51

#24

Levitch

Polaris is probably my favourite weapon but i join eater of worlds in his idea to nerf it because polaris is really unbalanced. In lockdown game more and more people use it and i find that spoil a bit the gameplay and the pleasure. I think we can also change it in a weapon with 2 bullet instead of 3 (like an alchemer). Was only a suggestion and to support the idea of eater.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 14:13

#25

Quakeman

2 bullet instead of 3 seam

2 bullet instead of 3 seam reasonable in pvp .. but what about pve?
that would be problematic

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 14:42

#26

Latisan-Sklay

Addon to Quakeman #25

Besides, if you're anything of a gunslinger, you don't spam the heck out of your attack button. You stop firing before you're clip runs dry and shield cancel anyways.

This to say, when I play the Pulsars anywhere, i rarely fire all three shots. Usually it's:
shot + shield + shot + shield ... etc.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 14:51

#27

Spold

@Ailment

Gunner

Gunslinger* I just can't resist correcting anyone who says gunner or swordie.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:00

#28

Canozo

From a Polaris user, +1

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:01

#29

Bleedingxorange

+1 to this. I would also like

+1 to this.

I would also like to add, as someone not playing on a very powerful machine, even playing this game on the lowest possible setting polaris makes me lag out more than anything in the game. If there are 1-2 people using polaris my FPS dont suffer that much but when there is 3+ people using it on my screen I legit drop down to 2 FPS. I would really like to see some sort of graphical change on polaris for people playing on low setting as I know I am not the only person this effects. As this is really off topic from what this post is about, I do agree that nerf would be beneficial to most of the LD community.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:15

#30

Quakeman

@Spold gunner ... gunslinger

@Spold
gunner ... gunslinger ... that realy bother you?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:40

#31

Spold

@Quakeman

Yes, it bothers me heavily. People have problems with punctuation, spelling, etc. already but I never thought it could get any worse. It bothers me for the fact that gunner has its own definition and it is different from gunslinger. Some people know that but only about 1.5% of the community knows that.

People always correct grammar, people don't have an issue with that and that's what I'm doing.

If a word already has its own definition please don't make the word look idiotic by calling it another word that has its own definition already.

If gunner doesn't bother you then look at it this way.

Someone could say "I'm going to go be a soccer player and kick a soccer ball." That means "I'm going to be a bomber and plant bombs in Lockdown". Same goes for gunner, it's like saying that when you mean "I'm going to be a bomber".

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:00

#32

Arctifice

As of right now, the main

As of right now, the main role of Polaris is creating a damage field that discourages enemies from moving, and thus it is highly effective in tight corridors or on points, or used when retreating to cover your escape and discourage chasers/cleaners.

However, the three shot clip allows two fields of damage to be thrown out at once, which can severely restrict movement and completely choke people off often unfairly, and ASI just shortens the time between throwing out two fields of damage. The ability to toss out two fields of damage allows a single user to deny the opposition even large areas, like Point 2 on various 3CP maps.

The most suitable nerf would simply be changing the clip size to two to effectively halve the walls of damage that can be put out consistently. This way, it still fulfills its niche of an area denial weapon, retaining effectiveness but not giving it the absurd capability that it has now.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 20:50

#33

Eater-Of-Worlds

Can we get more attention?

Bump cause I know for a fact there are more LD players out there who have an opinion. Theres way to many complaints in the chat and far too few people posting in here. Polaris has got to be balanced in some way.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 21:32

#34

Snarkeys-Alt

Hi.

I think the Polaris definitely needs a nerf in knockback and shock chance. I would definitely agree on you with that, Eater. It's a widely used weapon in the Lockdown field which would make it a huge change if the stats were tweaked. Like you said, Eater, you are a player that implemented the Polaris into your playstyle, and its very effective. That being said, the knockback can definitely kill you. Remember that game that we had on Downtown not too long ago, where your Polaris bumped me into a DA combo and killed me, kinda what happens too often.

I personally don't really "like" using it, but I feel I "need" to use it to block off points on maps or defending myself when low on health. I've been using Val a little more lately, still an effective gun. I think maybe shortening the range of the Polaris as well as the knockback so other guns can outrange it could be a good solution.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 22:36

#35

Addisond

I disagree on your methods for changing this. The way I see polaris, it serves as a counter for camping in haze bombs (no resist), a constructable wall, and a support weapon. The polaris is the only viable counter to bombers for players with sub-optimal connections because LD isn't lag-comped. Because of the way OOO has set up their classes (regrettably) bombers really can't do much but guard single areas, and they are slow at it, while a striker with a polaris can shut off an area in a matter of seconds. Though honestly at this point I'd be fine with bombers just removed from LD I feel that the construction of "spam walls" in pretty much any game results in stale-matey and frustrating play, and I'd prefer it if they didn't exist in a constant pace game, as OOO seems to intend to be LD's direction. This weapon is also pretty much the only functional support gun, as it's blinding effect and massive DPS/shock/knockback can easily rip apart any large melee that should come into place, and since it knocks players back so far it's unlikely to interfere via invincibility frames. I don't have a problem with support gunning, but spamming over your teammates takes very little skill and completely screws up what is otherwise an extremely fun fight. The polaris can also be used strategically in smaller fights to fence people in and restrict their movement.

Your proposed changes essentially reduce the amount of effect this weapon has, slightly. I doubt that 10% less damage is actually going to be extremely significant in the long run. 75% on knockback and shock won't really, either. Simply reducing it's clip size to 2 would remove the godlike power of this weapon (fire rate is much, much lower) but it really doesn't change a weapon that I honestly don't think belongs in play. I'm happy to try new things out, but for most purposes I just want this thing gone. It's okay-ish in PvE since it's used differently there, but in PvP it feels like it's just screwing everything up for me. I'd like to see it reworked to have a completely different purpose in PvP while still retaining some of it's PvE uses. I don't have any suggestions on how to do this, though. If I did I'd have already submitted them.

I'd be happy to continue this discussion, I'll check back daily.

Mon, 02/04/2013 - 13:57

#36

Pawsmack

@OP/Eater-Of-Worlds -1

The knockback doesn't need to be nerfed. It's the only thing that keeps its DPS tolerant as it is today. The only thing that I agree with is nerfing the shock status chance. Considering if a person were to get hit with a expanded pulse from a Polaris, it has a a very good chance of causing shock status and keeping them paralyzed for another expanded pulse hit. And obviously that affects its DPS.

Polaris isn't really OP if you ask me. I mean it isn't really anywhere near the DPS to something like a level 10 Combuster versus a normal Tier 3 Slag. It's not even as viable as a Combuster versus every mob in the game either.

I play Lockdown. But it's useless to base nerfs and buffs off of it. I mean think of how OOO's made an entire story line for us, yet we base EVERYTHING off of Lockdown. Most of us at least. Instead of only taking advice from Lockdown players listen to PvE terms a bit more also. Reading them isn't enough. Actually debate with them.

EDIT: Forgot one more thing. You should EXPECT to get a lot of posts and complaints on a nerf or buff thread. Nearly anyone can relate.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:18

#37

Spookington

+1 hey hey hey, it's EoS!

I usually hear the counter argument "Lol, lern 2 dodge" from the typical entitled god-mode skolvers whenever people complain about polaris spam. Obviously, these high-and-mighty jerks don't play recon enough to learn how horrible it is to play when they start spamming this god-awful weapon. Ugh. Please have pity on us fools who choose to not spam back, OOO. My hate for this weapon compels me to rant that they need an even bigger nerf aside from knockback and shock chance, but EoW's reccomendations are good enough for now.

Oh yeah, and lockdown matters a whole lot more to end-game players; people who have played the PvE to death and still want to have something to play until we get new, substantial content. Unfortunately, OOO just threw in the weapons as they worked in the clockworks without considering how they affected players instead of monsters and couldn't then bother to balance any of it.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 21:23

#38

Mzculet

+1 Im agreeing now

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 22:43

#39

Rogue-Wolf

Polaris is a crown control

Polaris is a crown control weapon. You want it changed so... it can't control crowds?

Logic? Who needs it?

The only real issue with Polaris in PvP is the chance of shock. The very purpose of the gun is crowd control, so the large AoE and knockback is justified. The shock, however, isn't (well, it is, but let's not get into that).

@Spookington: Most arguments AGAINST the Polaris are people who just walk into the shots, and are surprised that it affects them so badly. I see it over and over, people use direct assaults as tactics. The Polaris is an amazing weapon to counter such a tactic. Why? Because it keeps people away. The solution? There's 2 tactics I can think of that defeat Polaris. Flanking and natural dodging.

Natural dodging is difficult as Polaris users will normally fire it in multiple directions to create a "wall". So, flanking wins quite well. To defend every side, a Polaris user has to fire in every direction, making that "wall" easier to dodge and get through.

Oh yeah, and lockdown matters a whole lot more to end-game players
So? The PvE audience is big, and makes up the core of the game (if it was just PvP, SK would be boring as hell). Finding a balance between AI-driven monsters, and actual humans is quite difficult. Make Polaris viable in PvP, the way people suggest, makes it pretty weak in PvE. Making it good in PvE, makes it OP in PvP. It's a crowd control weapon. Swords and the like aren't.

Learn how it works, and you can counter it. Don't force it to change because you can't be tactical.

That said, if there MUST be a change, the only one I agree with is the 75/25 range thing.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 22:50

#40

Luguiru

Bombs are crowd control weapons.

Pulsars are one of the "uncharacteristic" weapons among Brandishes, Sealed lines, Spur, and the old shard bombs. Notice the shard bombs were changed for being "not bomb-like enough" yet the Sealed lines create projectiles when using the charge attack which is not characteristic to a melee weapon. Also note that we need a carton of eggs, milk, some tomatoes, and a loaf of bread.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 06:24

#41

Doctorspacebar

Make a bomb that reflects projectiles with double their original range.

Problem solved.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 09:10

#42

Canine-Vladmir

._.

In PvP its quite annoying.
In PvE its a team killer and pushed enemies away. ._.

Polaris is just for solo play.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 09:15

#43

Fleet-Miss-Gun

@Doctorspacebar

How about make a bomb that reflects projectiles at 2 times speed but have the damage halved?

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 17:36

#44

Addisond

@doctorspacebar

Can I do that twice? Think of the p(y)rotos, man.

u c wat I did thar?

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 18:42

#45

Eater-Of-Worlds

@Rogue-Wolf

Logic? Oh I got it.
Taking out SOME knock-back does not take away its purpose of crowd control. I did not propose to take away all of the knock-back, only a little. I find it pushes players too far. A gun should not be able to have the same knock-back as a bomb, such as nitronome. Plus the high damage and shock chance eats up guards and recons who CANNOT MOVE FASTER THAN A POLARIS BULLET (therefore not being able to dodge very easily, especially if bullets are being shot every which way).

I've been here for quite a while. I've got a lot of practice with LD, and I am not proposing this polaris nerf because I am incapable of dodging, because trust me when I say this, I know how to dodge. I've learned how to counter it to the best of my abilities, and I even made a set that is shock resistant to polaris. The thing is that, it still isn't enough. I still die to polaris every once and a while, and its usually to some gunner who apparently has no other weapon. Do not tell me that I need to learn to counter it, because I've been doing that ever since LD started and people realized how strong of a weapon polaris was.

Also I find it funny that you choose to back that point, because out of any of them, that would by far make it the weakest in PvE. No knock-back in close range and therefore not fulfilling the purpose of crowd control unless the target is no where near the crowd.

Lastly I am not "forcing" any nerf, I am SUGGESTING it. Suggesting it because with a group of people using polaris, the enemy has no chance, because it can knock people around like they are made of feathers, because it shocks so often its hard to get hit by a bullet and make it through the fight, because there is no easy way to rival a weapon that can be put out in mass quantity. Tell me why i can get 18k with only polaris and no damage boost to guns? Sounds like it needs balancing to me.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 19:24

#46

Eater-Of-Worlds

Status Update

Ideas that I am going to say that I support at this moment.
Redux in Shock chance.
Redux in clip size -> 2 shot clip.
Redux to knock-back -> 25-35% redux.
Redux to damage (optional) 10-15%
SPECIAL EDIT: A Guildy of mine suggested the possibility of Polaris being prismatic. Could make it easier to determine whether the bullet is yours or an enemy's.

Shock chance lessens the chance that a person will get shocked and leveled by only polaris bullets in a matter of seconds.
Clip size will require players to think more about their shots and reduce the amount of random shot firing on the field.
Knock-back will lessen the chance of being thrown into traps or enemies who weren't even aiming at you in the first place.
Damage is not fully necessary to be reduced if other aspects are. Fear of reducing it too far and allowing it to lose is sparkle in PvE.

PvE aspects should still be fine considering that it will still knock groups of enemies back, it will still be able to shock, and it will still be able to be fired without reload (just like the alchemers). Crowd control should still be easy perfumed with Polaris even after this sort of balancing.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 19:04

#47

Eater-Of-Worlds

@Pawsmack

Yes it is a shame that we all base our opinions off of LD but this is because it is exciting and everyone who does this, has already finished the PvE aspects of the game. Theres only so many times I can do the same mission and find it fun. PvE runs out of challenges after a while, while playing PvP requires a constant improvement of skills. PvP is just more exciting for a player who wants to constantly be challenged.

As to the damage comparison of Polaris to Combuster, guns are ranged weapons meant to allow a player to keep distance and have an easier time evading attacks. Because of this, guns are purposely set to lower damage outputs. Combuster should always do more damage than Polaris. If it was the other way around, Polaris would have been nerfed forever ago.

Lastly I did expect a lot of complaints. Thats why I've put in reasons for all my suggestions and encouraged people to debate. It is also why I take the time to counter any and all points. Thanks to my LD experience and credibility as a top tier player in LD, I have a lot to respond with when people disagree. That being said I am still accepting any and all types of debate, besides ones that involve other weapons, on this thread.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 19:11

#48

Eater-Of-Worlds

@ addisond

I can see why you say what you do, but I don't think taking out the weapon will ever happen, nor would I want it to. Although if it did, I'd be fine with using supernova because I only use it for the purpose of setting walls and interrupting players.
Also your concerns with the nerfs not working well enough: Even if they don't work well enough, any change could be helpful. Also we have to be careful to not take the weapon down too far because it is still used by many PvE players who want it to still be able to perform its purpose of crowd control.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 02:19

#49

Rogue-Wolf

Polaris does a lot of damage?

Polaris does a lot of damage? It does about 150 in FSC, so it's not overpowered in terms of damage output. The power is in its knockback (ironic that the shock counters the Polaris' strength).

I never said you couldn't dodge. Heck, I even said dodging is difficult with a Polaris, so I was agreeing with you. My point was "run in, dodge bullets, attack" seems to be the only tactic people understand. The irony being, the Polaris "wall" counters that very well. Working with your team, and flanking a Polaris user will work quite well (assuming those involved are good at dodging, and have a relatively good connection).

What point are you referring to? You don't use crowd control weapons at close range. Bombs, in the way SK uses them, endanger you, but have the desired effect upon firing. The Polaris requires you to be at a distance, so why on Earth would you compare Polaris to a bomb? Polaris is like a grenade launcher, and the grenades take a while to "heat up"... wait, that made little sense.

You don't "suggest" something without expecting it to happen. So, you are forcing the idea onto someone else (well, sort of.. bleh, my brain hurts). Anyway, I did say there is a way to deal with a Polaris. 2 Polaris on the other hand.. that might be difficult. Then again, if a bomber with CTR and ASI of a high amount dropped Nitros over and over again, can you counter those? Yes, but not easily.

Again, the AoE effect is dodgeable. If you walk into a Polaris bolt and are surprised you're knocked back by a massive bullet, you probably shouldn't be on the battle field.

I do support the reduction of shock chance, but no to the damage reduction. Knockback? Sure, but don't make it pathetically small (aka, a bit over a Valiance). The 2 shot clip is interesting, which takes away the "wall of strength" concept from the Polaris. I suppose that's fair.

I'm finding your "based on PvP" idea rather.. funny. The difference between PvE and PvP is just human interaction. Realistically, PvP elites will use the exact same tactics with the exact same weapons, making it predictable.

Theres only so many times I can do the same mission and find it fun

Let's modify this to a PvP ideal:

There's only so many times I can be killed by a Polaris before losing my cool and wanting the Polaris changed

Get where I'm going with this? PvP is not some magical place where the world changes around it. It's mostly the same thing over and over again, just like those missions you were talking about. True, it's less predictable than AI, but it's not "amazing".

while playing PvP requires a constant improvement of skills

What? PvP requires skill improvements, and I suppose PvE.. doesn't? 'cause that makes sense. End-Game players will "improve their skills" whether in PvE or PvP.

Thanks to my LD experience and credibility as a top tier player in LD, I have a lot to respond with when people disagree. That being said I am still accepting any and all types of debate, besides ones that involve other weapons, on this thread.

The wording of this makes it sound like you've taken the ideal of "I suggest it, I'm pro, so I'm right. Anyone who thinks otherwise is obviously wrong... because I'm pro". Playing a lot in LD doesn't suddenly make your opinion more "credible" than someone who's played LD a bit less. On that, I respect your opinion, and I expect you to respect mine. Frankly though, it seems like you've gotten it in your head that anyone who disagrees is wrong, regardless of what they say.

Rogue out.

PS: Twas bored when I wrote this. Most of it is probably garbage. Bleh.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 07:44

#50

Doctorspacebar

The 2 shot clip does seem like an idea. Make the damage and interruption rates enough to compensate for the lost shot against targets like Gun Puppies and Howlitzers, and we'll still have our turret killer/utility knockback gun while PvP will have fewer bullets flying around.

Fleet's idea for my reflector bomb might be more balanced. It might not, but it might. Just remember, it'd have to be useful in PvE too, and there are a lot more projectiles in PvE.

And yes, Addison, I am thinking of the p(y)rotos. Airblast FTW.

Search

The Polaris