Spiral Knights - [SLOW with RISKS] Healing Bomb Suggestion?

[SLOW with RISKS] Healing Bomb Suggestion?

61 replies [Last post]

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 12:09

Dusvio

So you know those tier 3 gremlin healers that heal each other? They make a light AoE that helps heal each other. So what about making a healing bomb that does the same thing?

*Edit: A healing bomb with a cooldown time to avoid spamming -_- how bout that?
*Edit 2: FINE instead of cooldown (since this game doesn't use the word cooldown) A VERY LARGE CHARGE TIME.
GIVE IT THE SLOWEST OF THE SLOW charge time, so no one can complain about how to spam it for endless heal. That means the healers have a risk of getting hurt while trying to charge it.
*Edit 3: and no it will NOT HURT enemies. and will heal EXTREMELY SLOWLY, because heaven forbid us for healing in this game

Happy with the explanation now?

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 12:10

Cloud-Shot

Then, everyone can huddle up

Then, everyone can huddle up after each room and spam heal.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 12:21

Krakob

No.

There's a reason we don't have healing in the game.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 12:22

Thunder-The-Bright

try again!

you would like to fully heal at elevators? that would ruin fun a bit. it's ok for arenas, but not on normal depths.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 12:50

Hargbeast

I don't think this would be

I don't think this would be balanced unless it costs CE to use, and even then it's still a bit overpowered.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 13:10

Little-Juances

A bomb that heals enemies like the gremlin aura, wich somehows does nothing on knights?
There's nothign wrong with that! Stop saying it's OP!.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 13:26

Sahonix

good idea !! healing bombs!!

love your idea, heal bombs should exist...

healing bombs is a very good idea, i even think about that, u say it... its your idea

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 13:32

Doctorspacebar

If there were healing bombs, it'd be too easy. You're supposed to learn to dodge and block well enough to make do with what Health and Hearts you have.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 13:33

Sahonix

I have another idea !!!

bombs can cure but , if exist one trinket who cure !?!?

trinkets can cure too, like a bomb , or weapon ...

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 13:45

Sweet-Hope

No healing weapons
No healing trinkets
No healing armors

Nick already said that WE DONT GOING TO HAVE ANY OTHER SOURCE OF HEALING BESIDES THE HEARTS AND PILLS

So STOP POSTING "WE WANT A HEALING WEAPON" because never going to happen. learn to dodge and use your shield wisely. Seriously people

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 14:23

#10

Quakeman

shield ... for centuries its

shield ... for centuries its been used for a decorations ... only the wise ones know its a way to defend yourself

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 14:28

#11

Terra-Necro

-10 to the thread maker

Dude, if you had your way with that, then a team of four people would never die.

One-two people healing while the rest fight a boss. Rev them when they die and continue...bad idea.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 17:22

#12

Quakeman

noob gun , whilne , ask to be

noob gun , whilne , ask to be tabbed , does not shield , ask for cr , make random trades whitout knowing what he want , complain about energy and lack of health every time you fire

just kidding

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 19:51

#13

Zeddy

I think it could work, but it would need limited ammo. Something like 3 per mission/stratum. We already have shard bombs that cannot kill Roarmulus so it's not like OOO cares about anything being possible with any loadout.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:42

#14

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

The only way healing would work is if you healed people with your own health, and there was a heavy tax on it.

A bomb that heals enemies just like a healing rune, however, would be just fine.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:48

#15

Xxpapaya

The papaya agrees with Oat

Yeah, to make it balanced, there has to be a cost.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:56

#16

Hexzyle

-1

What's the point of having a weapon that you can't use all the time? That would just be a waste of a slot. This weapon is way too gimmicky, it would either be overpowered, or absolutely useless.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 23:37

#17

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop?

As much as I think this would add some much needed variety to the game, there really is no way to easily balance such a thing.
The only way a bomb like that could be implemented is if it was VERY cumbersome to use or had a near crippling cost for the user. It would really need a lot of testing and back-and-forth between us and OOO to work, something that OOO isn't up for much these days.

Some ideas to get something like this working.
- REALLY long charge time during which you can't even move. Keeps it from being used in battles unless your party is skilled enough to keep enemies of you via statuses, shield bumping, or explosions of some sort. Also makes it a little annoying to abuse after battles, due to the obscenely long wait.
- Cannot heal user and only heals allies half a pip, but it heals enemies a lot. This makes it possible to prolong a losing battle and maybe turn the tide, but could very easily make it fail as well. Could make it even worse/better by giving it a large area of influence.
- Takes up two weapon slots? Makes it more costly and dangerous to carry due to a more limited arsenal... unless you can afford extra slots, then it's still OP unless a few of these other ideas are tacked onto it...
- Inflicts user with the highest level Curse possible, making rapid use impossible and severely crippling the user for a prolonged period of time. Even with the highest Curse resistance, there should be no way to avoid fully Cursing your entire arsenal for a long time if you dare to think you need to use this.
- Uses Vials and Capsules as ammo. Sets a limit to how much you can use it, plus gives use to Vials for the players who never throw them.
- Make it only work with a certain set of armor. The armor would have to be fragile as can be (more fragile than whatever "glass" OOO thinks the Chaos Set is made of) and possibly even a lot of status vulnerabilities. Plus, it give us an excuse to make use of that dusty old Vitasuit and give it a helmet and branching lines...
http://pixelhat.tumblr.com/image/37317955233

The biggest problem I can find is if multiple people carry this thing. It negates most drawbacks I could come up with (time, small amount of healing, and no weapon slots are easily worked around with a party), except for that Curse one.
Still, I would love to see different types of weapons brought into the game to add more depth. Also, adding a healing weapon makes a VERY strong reason to buff all the monsters. Just saying...
Thoughts? Or is this idea better off in the Graveyard?

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 13:16

#18

Skold-The-Drac

Winbillion

Make the winbillion absorb one bar from an enemy hit on the charge, half bar per hit elsewise. Winmillion gets low enough damage anyway, it's 5* wouldn' be that bad with healing...

Ok i'm gonna leave this failure here :p

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 13:18

#19

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

@Skold-The-Drac, Gremlin Menders, Silkwings, and Grim Totems completely break your idea.

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 13:49

#20

Persef

SPAMHEAL

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 14:33

#21

Skold-The-Drac

@oaty

Brandish, polaris, blitz...
Guarantee the three above would outdo the winbillion for survivability/speed to clear 90% of the time and likely let the player end the level with more health.
Come up with a way to ban the vitapod whilst holding winbillion... Or just make an "absorb" status effect and we'd be golden.

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 20:49

#22

Zopyros-Il

Beep Beep Boop

Sadly, having a leech-type weapon would be completely game-breaking for SK due to the factors that Oat said.
The only way something like that could work is if it only leeched health from their original health and not from any health that they healed. This would make a weak weapon like that more trouble than it's worth if there happens to be a Mender, Silkwing, or other forms for monsters to heal/revive. You'd have a severely weak weapon that could heal you for a little bit, but after that you probably can't outdamage their rate of healing.
But, unless there were some way for the game to keep track of a monster's original health and healed health, a leech weapon is kinda impossible.

We're getting a little off topic, though. Are there any more thoughts on the prospect of a healing bomb? Or any type of healing weapon really?
It would break the game unless some of the things I mentioned before were implemented into it or OOO adds in some new mechanics to stop it from being so OP.
Then again, maybe this role will be filled by the Sprites? We won't know until they come out...

P.S. Winbillion sounds too silly. I think a better name for a 5* Winmillion would be the Spinfinity and would gain a mobius shape... gotta draw that someday...
P.P.S Leeching isn't very fitting for it, either... The idea of the sword is to be a gun-sword hybrid and should really work off of that. Maybe even taking away the Brandish and Sealed lines ridiculous(ly overpowering) range attacks so it can be the sole ranged sword.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:00

#23

Raptorsevens

You could just spam it to get

You could just spam it to get health.
But I got an idea for a healing bomb, it heals 1 hp to every teammate who gets hit by it but IT DOES NOT HEAL THE USER. Instead, it makes the user LOSE 1 hp for every hp healed on teammates.

So no new hp gets generated, it just gets redistributed.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:00

#24

Arkate

Healing Bomb

The only way I find to balance this...is more healing. The bomb should be able to provide health for enemies, or give them temporary buffs when they are hit by the blast.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:19

#25

Zaffy-Laffy

I think a healing bomb as a usable is quite okay. Consider this :

Healing bomb 1* : Heals 1 health point for each team member, must be in radius of bomb.
Healing bomb 3* : Heals 2 health points for each team member, must be in radius of bomb.
Healing bomb 5* : Heals 3 health points for each team member, must be in radius of bomb.

Though however, there might be some variations, such as a bomb that blasts everywhere in the map, healing each team member. Another variation is the bomb in Alien Swarm, where it has a set amount of energy to replenish a set amount of health. It can be shared among team members, depleting the energy in a shorter time, or used alone, therefore regenerating more health.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:26

#26

Raptorsevens

I think healing bombs as

I think healing bombs as usables would be redundant.
You can already drop your pills for your teammates.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:43

#27

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop, Son. Beep Boop.

@Raptorsevens
That could work actually. Though, it does have the potential to be abused if someone brings an alt along for the sole purpose of being a life tank. There would also be the whiners who pick it up and demand you keep them alive for the healz. But those are just extreme cases. I think most everyone would use it as its intended. Would be really help to make a defined Guardian role, since they should have life to spare for their allies.
It's one of the better ways to go about implementing a healing bomb.

And I agree with what you said about Zaffy's suggestion. It would be a little redundant, but then again, the same could be said of the vials since we have weapons that can inflict the statuses as well. :/
There should be a way of giving us more options to stay alive in a more reliable way than relying on the random number gods to drop us some healing capsules and hearts wouldn't be so bad.

@Zaffy-Laffy
Like I said with Raptor, something like that wouldn't be really useful with the capsules currently as they are. It's relying too much on the random number gods to help heal your allies. Plus it would REALLY suck if you got one while running solo.

And is no one even going to say anything about the suggestions I put up there for plausible effects of these bombs?
It's like my post is invisible or something...

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:44

#28

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

It doesn't matter how slowly it heals, it's still infinite, costless healling.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 14:25

#29

Persef

I stopped when I saw the word Healing. Medics, Healers or Doctors are never accepted in game as the game would be a sinch with them. As for healing bombs. You just huddle and then you heal, what else? Can they hurt monsters? No, it's a healing bomb. I suggest you type the word "heal" in the search before doing this.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 14:57

#30

Dusvio

made edits to OP

there, happy now?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:04

#31

Little-Juances

It went form OP to useless. Stop trying. It can't work. Even the developers said they can't create a balanced healing weapon.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:12

#32

Zeddy

It's not hard

5* Healing Bomb Thing Whatever

-Has 50% effect of a capsule, but goes to everyone in the area.
-Comes with one free use when you bring it.
-Recharged by healing oneself over full health.

Now tell me how that's horribly overpowered somehow.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:15

#33

Klipik-Forum

Still OP

Get weapon slot -> have everyone in party bring heal bomb

Beat level as normal with normal amount of weapons

Get to the end of the level -> everyone pulls out heal bombs with CTR max -> full HP before you know it

Making it take longer is not a good enough prevention. Maybe, maybe a health leach from enemies, so you can't heal after all the enemies are dead.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:30

#34

Zeddy

@Noklip

Yes that sounds like a valid tactic to me. That weapons slot could've been used on a different weapon that let them be more versatile against more kinds of enemies but instead they spent it getting one big heal.

What did they get from that? One big heal! Wow, that's overpowered!

Edit: Wait, let me modify your tactic:

Do nothing special. Play level normally. Get to the end of the level and everyone uses a health capsule. Full health before you know it!

Edit 2: Also, the heal bomb would not be refreshed between levels, just between missions.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:28

#35

Skyguarder

Proceeding the explosion...

Nick has said that he will never add anymore ways in healing.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:31

#36

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop

Zeddy's idea would probably actually work, but there would have to be some new code put in to get the usage to work right. It prevents spamming and only lets really skilled or lucky players be able to use it consistently.
The biggest flaw in it though is players wearing Proto down to T3 to be a team medic. They'd be putting themselves at risk with such low defenses, but have such low health that recharging the bomb could be easily accomplished. Plus, they could always pack along a really durable shield to help counter their low defenses.

And just because OOO has said in the past that they couldn't implement healing in some manner, doesn't mean that they can't in the future. They said they wouldn't introduce pets, but now we're getting Battle Sprites.
So instead of putting down the idea and the OP, be constructive and help out or get out of here and go to another thread.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:35

#37

Klipik

oops

Zeddy, you ninja'd me, I was replying to the OP's idea :P
What do you think of it that way?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:39

#38

Zeddy

@Zopyros-II

You call that a flaw, I call it awesome dedication.

Don't forget this two-hit wonder has to survive while the rest of his team is at critical health and needs that healing.

@Klipik who is also Noklip?
Your comment makes sense in the context of OP's edit.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 15:49

#39

Quakeman

id like to see healing gun

id like to see healing gun instead using you own health to send it to people via very slow or very fast bullet wich in both case you can miss and waste your health .. as for the bomb .. it health player AND monster and cost 250 cr every time you lift it, wich mean if you lift it and dont carge it and reset , you lost 250 cr

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 16:37

#40

Mzculet

Been suggested before...

And no..

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 17:17

#41

Sahonix

more specific and good idea

I am very happy to know that someone is collaborating with the game improvement...

thats idea remind me grand chase, every end of level we cure to the next map...

you forgot to put the way to get this kind of bomb healing ...

thats the best idea ever ... hahaha ... good luck with that !!! hope this gets more fun to the game !

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 17:20

#42

Skyguarder

Proceeding the explosion...

Sahonix... You can't learn, you refuse to know the game, and yet you say you are the king and you have the rights to say we are wrong. Pfft, how pathetic....

Nick generally said "We are never adding anymore ways in healing"

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:06

#43

Sahonix

future is unknow !

maybe we change his mind, who knows what will happens in the future ! ? ! ?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:10

#44

Klipik

Yes, we are

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:11

#45

Klipik-Forum

The same person.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:12

#46

Skyguarder

Proceeding the explosion...

No...

He said that, and he won't do anything. He won't try killing the game with more healing methods.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:14

#47

Klipik

well...

He also said no pets. :P

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:27

#48

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

It doesn't matter how slowly it heals, you can still just huddle up in the areas between rooms and heal to full health.

@Klipik, No he didn't.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:30

#49

Klipik

I think he did. Have the link to where he said no healing?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 18:49

#50

Skyguarder

Proceeding the explosion...

Once again, I heard him say that he will never add anymore ways in healing besides guardian in lockdown, hearts (in boxes) and capsules. Otherwise, no more.

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[SLOW with RISKS] Healing Bomb Suggestion?