Spiral Knights - new line concept of meele weapons: Brass Knuckle and Boots (might have seen that name before ...)

new line concept of meele weapons: Brass Knuckle and Boots (might have seen that name before ...)

11 replies [Last post]

Wed, 03/06/2013 - 06:32

Zeyez

before all, i'm bad to try give names, so... i will just throw the concept here
this is a variation on a topic I had posted previously, but the other had a strange principle, which does not have (like the possibility to be used as a shield too)

well... here we go
resume:

-Fast as Calibur/brandish normals strikes (3-strike combo), strong as Triglav/Sudaruska on charged attack, maintaining the slowness of the charged attack, and classified as sword because it is a short range weapon
-has slightly less range compared to normal attacks with swords (15-25% less reach, but not so much as to prevent hit the Roarmulus twins or some switches), offset by additional effect/damage on the weapons
-all of them can cause stun, at different levels
-each weapon have powerful charged attacks, but have charge time penalty, like the charge time of the Gran Faust
-and all 3 weapons share the same pattern of normal attacks except the last swing ("the First one" [pure normal damage type] is a kick, "the Second" [mixed elemental] is a ground punch, "the Third" [mixed piercing] is a direct punch)

before start talking about each one, i will use as a approximate reference the damage of the Leviathan on the wiki, at the end of stratum 5 (first part of the tier 3) without any damage bonuses: (always on neutral target the examples)
180 damage normal swing
224 damage on last swing
358 each hit of charged attack (can hit 2-3 times)

>> The First type is pure normal damage, is more versatile, can be used against one target and some area of effect, when the charged attack is: changes the fighting position (preparing the dash and stroke), dash 1 square forward, dragging everybody, followed by a nice kick on all enemys in the path, front and the sides and come back to stopped fight stance during the last half second
>extra effects: the charged attack can deal +10% additional damage (only one time) if the enemy hit the block/wall/another enemy on the knockback (the block will be destroyed in the process and the other enemy will suffer the same additional damage) and can drag the players too, like the 2° dash of the charged rocket hammer
the charged attack have moderate chance to causing moderate stun (3/3), the last strike too, but is just fair chance to causing moderate stun (2/3), start as 2* weapon and have 5* version
damage on 5 star version:

normal swing: 171 damage
last swing: 239 damage
charged attack: 558 damage (1 hit on each target only)

>> The Second is mixed elemental/normal damage, more focused on area of effect attacks, the charged attack is stand still for one second and half and launch 2 punches on the ground, making shockwaves, with area of effect of a master blast bomb (4 stars blast bomb) the 5* version of the weapon (maybe little less AoE) and come back to stopped fight stance during the last half second
the first shockwave have no knockback, the second shockwave, come 1 second after the first one, have good knockback (enough to push away to out of the area of effect any non-heavy enemies)
only charged attack can stun and have fair chance to make slight stun on each shockwave (2/2)
>extra effects: the charged attack can't be stopped unless being shocked or dying, the first shockwave have +50% interruption force (can flinch more easily the enemies on the area while doing the same damage) and the shockwaves can free the user from the frozen status effect (you are smashing the ground nearly you, after all)
>side effect: less 20% attack speed base compared to the other variants
start as 3* weapon, variation of the pure normal damage type and have 5* version
damage on 5 star version:

normal swing: 162 damage
last swing: 226 damage (it make a weaker shockwave, without stun chance, of 1 AoE square, that can achieve both the sides, as behind of the knight)
charged attack: 327 damage each shockwave (2x)

>> The Third type and last is mixed piercing/normal damage, more single target oriented, the charged attack is stand still for one second, and after, dash half square forward, followed by powerful uppercut, where the range barely can hit more than one target at the same time, and ends back to fighting position during the last half second
>extra effect: interrupts whatever get hitted by charged attack, even invulnerable ones (besides doesn't make any damage on them, like hit the shield of the trojan or the snarbolax)
the charged attack have good chance to causing moderate status effect (4/3), the last strike of the combo have moderate chance to causing moderate status effect (3/3)
start as 3* weapon, variation of the pure normal damage type, like The Second, and have 5* version

damage on 5 star version:

normal damage: 180 damage
last swing: 252 damage
charged attack: 705 damage (only 1 hit)

>status inflict of the weapon can be Poison |suggestion given by Hexzyle| or Stun [the weapon only will have one of them if done on the game]
.

what is your opinion about this new line of weapons?
the chance to stun and the power on each weapon is too powerful?
the charge time penalty is not enough to balance the damage/effect on charged attacks?
need to drop one or two of the variations?
use of this concept (brass knuckles and boots) in the game is acceptable? because when you change your weapon, just move a hand, leaving weird the knight just show wield/hide the boots after change the weapon
I missed something while I was writing? like name of the chance status inflict or something?
any suggestions for the name of the weapons?

anyway, I'm so tired of this text reviews ... I can no longer tell if something is wrong or try to give some background history about that weapon line

Wed, 03/06/2013 - 20:26

Hexzyle

Oh look its this thread

Oh look its this thread again, lol.

"No-one ever said it was too gunlike"
-Brady

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 06:14

Zeyez

eyes trying to see the end to another end

is not the same, but it is a modification
on another previous topic, have complained of a part of what i had placed (the weapon function as a shield as well and the 'Dash' active ability), so I redid it by removing it and putting some additional such as damage table and extra effects on the charged attack

if have any problem as to not be worth creating this line of weapons, I give up the topic and any future modifications

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 07:19

Hexzyle

It's a good idea, but it's

It's a good idea, but it's been suggested far too many times before. Either +1 an older, more filled out topic, or compile every single good topic regarding this from the past, and post it as a megathread.
Megathreads get the job done, and you don't get hassled for repeating old information, and Megathreads can be necro'd with minimal complaint.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 05:57

Zeyez

eyes trying to see the end to another end

well ... anyway, I had to make some corrections in relation to another topic
change the game mechanics, exceptionally, to use one line of weapons would not be a suitable choice, if they were looking for a suggestion

but it sure would be interesting if the OOO decided to make 1 semester/year topic asking for suggestions from players, to create a poll on what the company should focus more
Example: Topics about equipment revision (Luguiru), creation of a new boss Tier 3 (Verodius) ... and so on

I'll let the topic rest (but that one still so young ... =x)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 01:37

Hexzyle

Idea is starting to look good

Change The Third's status to something else other than Stun (we already have a piercing sword AND bomb that deals stun) like maybe poison, (freeze?) or shock.

Change The Second's damage type to Shadow/Normal. We already have far too many Elemental weapons. (Also, no shadow weapons deal any status except for one bomb which deals shock, so let's work on that)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 07:45

Zeyez

One by one

The Third (piercing mixed damage) dealing different status effect?
hmm...
-shock... do not think that works very well in that case, because shock is more "linked" to elemental damage, unless have something that can justify the shock effect (that brass knuckle not appear to have...)
-cryogenic gloves? freeze status on gloves doesn't make so much sense, unless the wielder can self-inflict the status (the wielder need to stay too close to use it) and this weapon has no such intention to be harmful to the user
-keeping this pattern of attacks, can makes sense cause poison, because the piercing weapons can have poisoned blades, the effect will be slightly more easily to deal compared to others, compared to Dread Venom Striker (same chance that I assign to stun: 3/3-4/3)
I will add the poison as an option

The Second... Shadow type ? o.o'
by some way, can be interesting against gremlins/jellys because of their AI, is not bad
but i just can't imagine, for now, what it would be generating the shockwaves using the shadow damage
can explain how it would look or work?

ah, just remember: Faust and Gran Faust can deal curse effect

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 07:56

Hexzyle

"-shock... do not think that

"-shock... do not think that works very well in that case, because shock is more "linked" to elemental damage, unless have something that can justify the shock effect (that brass knuckle not appear to have...)"

That's true, a piercing sword would work good on Beasts and Fiends, the former of which wouldn't be effected that much by the elemental shock (but shocked fiends? Oh yeah!) while the shock would be effective against Constructs and Undead, the former of which wouldn't take all that much damage from the gloves (but it would be fun though, punching up constructs :P)

-cryogenic gloves? freeze status on gloves doesn't make so much sense, unless the wielder can self-inflict the status (the wielder need to stay too close to use it) and this weapon has no such intention to be harmful to the user"

From a combat perspective I think it works quite well, but I guess there is the problem of designing the logic of the weapon to look like it's doing freeze.

I guess poison would be pretty effective (and easy to logically explain, things that can pierce can poison) especially since it's AoE and would be good at taking down groups of fiends while heavily minimizing the risk to yourself. It would provide a more monster-specialised but less high single-target DPS than the DVS.

but i just can't imagine, for now, what it would be generating the shockwaves using the shadow damage
can explain how it would look or work?

Honestly it doesn't matter, most the current shadow weapons can't really be explained (Acheron, I mean what? Where does the shadow come from? Gran Faust is explainable because it's an ancient weapon and "ancient evil" is a stereotype. But things like Shocking Salt Bomb, Dark Retribution, etc. Shadow is just some wierd energy, let's just attach it to whatever, who cares about logic: Balance is more important. When we value logic over balance, we end up with stupid, underpowered equipment like Almirian Crusader and Heavenly Iron)

Just draw crytpic purple swirls all over the gloves and bam, shadow damage explained.

Sat, 04/06/2013 - 15:07

Zeyez

"..., who cares about logic: Balance is more important. ..."

Ok... throwing some of the logic away, i can put some more weapons on the equation, giving more variations to each damage type, but will split in to 2 line of Gauntlets:

single target oriented
and AoE based

I'll try to make these weapons do not seem like what happens with the Brandish series (like only change the skin and the status effect), giving damage, "some kind of skin to think about it", status and unique features

single target type:
which will have 3 weapons: normal, elemental and piercing

that one start the single target type

> 1° Pure normal damage will have the final blow "a kick" and status effect Stun
as I had described before, that is "The First" Gauntlet/Boots
i will just copy and paste
//
when the charged attack is: changes the fighting position (preparing the dash and stroke), dash 1 square forward, dragging everybody, followed by a nice kick on all enemys in the path, front and the sides and come back to stopped fight stance during the last half second
>extra effect: the charged attack can deal +10% additional damage (only one time) if the enemy hit the block/wall/another enemy on the knockback (the block will be destroyed in the process and the other enemy will suffer the same additional damage)
>extra effect 2: can drag the players too, like the 2° dash of the charged rocket hammer attack
the charged attack have moderate chance to causing moderate stun (3/3), the last strike too, but is just fair chance to causing moderate stun (2/3)
start as 2* weapon and have 5* version
damage of the 5 star version:

normal swing: 171 damage
last swing: 239 damage
charged attack: 558 damage (1 hit on each target only)

> 2° The Piercing mixed , the final strike will an uppercut
that one is "The Third", but instead the Stun, Poison
I will scale the poison effect and change something to fit better

//
more single target oriented, the charged attack is stand still for one second, and after, dash half square forward, followed by powerful uppercut, where the range barely can hit more than one target at the same time, and ends back to fighting position during the last half second

>extra effect: interrupts whatever get hit by charged attack, even invulnerable ones (besides doesn't make any damage on them, like hit the shield of the Trojan or the Snarbolax)
>side effect: need to wait 5 second cooldown to allow charge again, to prevent overuse of the charged attack, neither from the huge damage and/or the "interrupt effect"
the charged attack have good chance to causing moderate status effect (4/3), the any strike (like Fangs of Vog) of the combo have fair chance to causing moderate status effect (2/3)
start as 3* weapon, variation of the pure normal damage type, and have 5* version

damage on 5 star version:

normal damage: 180 damage
last swing: 252 damage
charged attack: 756 damage (only 1 hit)

ps.: the poison is applied before the damage, if have something different
//

> 3° Elemental mixed will have as last strike a straight punch (with more front range), the charged attack will be: little spin, increasing trajectory to add strength to the punch, and release one straight punch, if connect on any enemy, will create the "Arc of Lighting" (will generate only one), dealing the Shock effect on the target and the 2 nearest enemies of the target withing 2 squares on each jump, each jump have 0,5 second delay
the charged punch and the Arc of Lighting have moderate chance to causing moderate shock (3/3) and any strike (like Fangs of Vog) will have a fair chance to causing moderate shock (2/3)

>Extra effect: non-invunerable shielded enemies (like Trojans and Mortarfires) will suffer the chance of status effect, the damage of the Arc of Lighting and will allow jump to the other enemies, but the target must be hit by the charged punch, "jumped" Arc of Lighting doesn't ignore the shield on others and can be stopped if blocked by shield
>Side effect: -20% base attack speed to the weapon compared to others of the line, reducing the "Shock-lock" chance
start as 3* weapon, variation of the pure normal damage type, and have 5* version:

damage on 5* version:

normal strike: 180
last strike: 239
Charged Attack: 448 (punch damage) + 149 (Arc of Lighting)

ps.: like Fang of Vog against Oilers/compound variant, try not use this one against Quicksilvers, unless you like them running crazily

AoE Type:

which will have 2 weapons: elemental mixed and shadow mixed
both strike the ground, making shockwaves and have the same pattern of normal attacks (2 punches and one ground punch)
this apply to all weapon variants:

this line start with 2* version, this one deal neutral damage and doesn't have any status effect
>extra effect: the Charged attacks can't be stopped unless being shocked or dying
>extra effect 2: the Charged attacks can release the user from the frost status effect (you are smashing the ground near you, after all)
>extra effect 3: the First Shockwave can flinch more easily the enemies, counting as +50% damage, but don't have any knockback at that one, the Second shockwave deal Huge knockback, like Nitronome knockback
>side effect: less 20% base attack speed compared to the the calibur series
>side effect 2: really slow charge attacks (need to stand still for 2 seconds before start doing damage)

the general damage of the 5* weapon line:

normal strikes: 162
last swing: 226 (that one is AoE of 1.5-2 squares, be careful about trigger all the explosive blocks around you)
Charged Attack: 357 (x2) (this have AoE of 4 squares)

> 4° The Elemental mixed deal frost only on charged attack, about the how this Glove can frost everything... on second shockwave, the glove release a cold mist, which disappears in 2 seconds, giving some chances to freeze the target while it is inside it, but the mist have only 2/3 of the Shockwave AoE
only the cold mist can frost the enemies, the mist have 2 seconds duration (enough to deal 4 trys) and have moderate chance to causing moderate frost on the enemies (3/3)
> Extra effect: the second shockwave of this weapon deal reduced knockback (half, compared with others on this line), giving more chances to keep the targets within the area of cold mist
> Extra effect 2: the cold mist can extinguish the fire status from the other allies and yourself

5° The Shadow mixed version deal Stun, with a slightly different mechanic: Cause 4 shockwaves, and 2 for each punch, where the first reach the total area, causing all damage and no ability to stun, and the 2°, which does not cause damage and area slightly smaller (2/3 of the first one), has the ability to stun
>extra effect: that gloves can deal 2 hits on each block instead of one on Shockwave attacks (last swing and charged attack)
>extra effect 2: the last attack of normal combo have slight chance to deal moderate stun (1/3), but only have half square of size (like direct hit the feet of the enemy)

-----

so...
better? worse? weird?

one weeks thinking about new details... i'm tired again -_-'

Sat, 04/06/2013 - 18:04

Hexzyle

First time this is ever happened...

I didn't read through most of it, but I'm glad you're actually making a valid necro by adding information.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 08:12

#10

Zeyez

Bump

after many days...
up up

come on, i know than everybody wanna change the HUD of the game, talk about the bunnys... but don't need to throw the other topics into the vacuum

anyway, i will not bump again until i get new ideas to put here... or someone give feedback while i'm looking the topic
just remember: you can talk about both the initial concept of the #1 response or the #8 answer of the topic

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 18:49

#11

Zeyez

Bump again and...

more weapon variants of the Single target type:

6° Shadow mixed, from the single target line, with a hook as last hit (one punch than come from the right to the left, have less frontal reach, more arc angle reach), can deal fire status, with different style: that weapon earn a "frenzy meter", each time this weapon hit one enemy with normal strike, increase the meter by one, when reach on 4°, start guarantee that enemies suffer minor fire (except if that one is immune against it) and increase the damage by little, after 10° strike, increase the power of the status effect to moderate fire and earn some additional damage... each threshold have one unique visual effect (flames on the hand) showing the level at which it is
-to keep the "frenzy meter", the wielder have 8 seconds to strike one enemy again, or the weapon will fall to the previous threshold (if you have more than 10 strikes, will fall to 4°, if you have 8 strikes, will lose the entire charges)
-his charged attack consume all "frezy meter", releasing a burst of fire in front of a straight punch with power of the status one level more than the normal strike (good chance to minor fire, if less than 4 strikes, guaranteed chance to moderate if less than 10 strikes, guaranteed chance to causing strong fire if more than 10 strikes)
-Description: these gauntlets were made simulating the conditions of the Shadowfire, founded in the Firestorm Citadel, and this one providing to the wielder with a feeling of frenzy every time it hits the opponent, if you never liked the Shadowfire, it's time to make others hate it as well

extra effect: can charge little faster than other knuckles (instead of the faust charge time, can charge at speed of the calibur series)
side effect: if you change the weapon, you will lose the entire "frenzy meter" (can be useful, if you are trying avoid burn the oil slime)
start as 3* weapon, variation of the pure normal damage type, and have 5* version

damage on 5 star, full heated version:

normal damage: 162 (before the 4° strike), 171 (between 4° and 10°), 180 (after 10° strike)
last swing: 226 (before 4° strike), 239 (between 4° and 10°), 252 (after 10° strike)
charged attack: 406 + 113 (before 4° strike), 527 + 147 (between 4° and 10°), 649 + 226

all basic status effect done

let's see what I can do later...
maybe I just can create one more, but without any status effect

edit:
sorry about this "new bump", but i'm fixing something

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new line concept of meele weapons: Brass Knuckle and Boots (might have seen that name before ...)