Looks like this thread is about to fall off the first page - I'm going to assume this means everyone immediately interested has commented in some form or another, and I will start cleaning this up before posting in Suggestions.

Thanks for your input, all respective posters!

Almost entirely forgot about the OTHER heavy swords that people nowadays totally neglect in LD. Really wish to see more sudas and trigs as well if any of this were implemented.

Sorry if I'm late on the replies and stuff - dem borderlands.

This is mostly directed at Addisond, but s/he brings up something I think I should be clearer about: this is about more than just removing invinciframes; removing IFs is an integral part of finally bringing some semblance of balance to lockdown, but it is not the only change.

I had a section in my OP called "HOW TO MAKE THIS WORK", where I suggested also lowering attack power across the board for all weapons (so cutters and autoguns don't simply become death sentences), but there is also a point that calls attention to hit-locking. Bringing up cutters as an example once again, I want them to work similar to how they function in the clockworks - fast and maneuverable, but at the cost of dealing low damage per hit and not being able to flinch enemies until the last blow.

In PvP, until the very last hit I want my opponents to be able to retaliate like a monster would in the clockworks --> If I'm too slow and attack them dead-on from the front, I'm leaving myself open to be bopped with a GF or a DA, which should force players to be more creative in their assaults with cutters & other fast, low damage weapons.

Flinching is something else entirely, though. Aside from IFs, I also want get rid of the hit-locking - it would only make an IF-less LD incredibly frustrating.

I want to rock the boat here - not a power shift. I want to restore fast weapons in LD to their respective design and function in the Clockworks - bringing back both their strengths, but also the flaws that are supposed to define them.

To restate:

Damage buffs/nerfs/etc. will ONLY apply to PvP -- If you noticed, the respective amount of damage converted to health pips for cutters, antiguas, and etc. are actually HIGHER than supposedly in the clockworks - this was knowingly done to compensate for their inability to hit multiple times like they do in the clockworks.

However, the increased damage doesn't actually help them - (I always use cutters as examples because I use them the most, and thus know wtf I'm talking about) - the nearly non-existent reach now means that they can only hit as fast as say, a really quick toothpick, but only with worse damage and reach. I want these things to * SAW * through enemy players like I do monsters, even if it means my favorite weapon gets nerfed to balance it.

But you (autofire), have a point - instead of a flat damage decrease as I suggested in my OP, perhaps it should be a *SCALED* weapon damage nerf - the faster a weapon attacks, the less damage it does - thus an un-UV'd cutter won't kill people in a second, but a fully-UV'd GF or DA isn't reduced to just being a really slow nerf-bat (Nerf the toy brand, not the balance tool).

Plate lines are something outside what I consider this thread to be about - I fully agree though, plate lines need more love - but this is about allowing fast weapons to be able to hit as fast as they were designed to do. Seriously, go make a thread about this though - armor needs as much of a balance as the weapons do.

@ Thunder-the-bright:

Hm. If anything in this thread were to be tested, I think that would be one of the better "alternate IF" ideas to be tested ("alternate" in comparison to "No IFs at all"). While I like that idea, I'm curious as to how it would work if a player is being hit by two different weapons at once. Allowing players to be hit simultaneously by different opponents is another thing I want introduced to improve teamwork - as it is now, if someone gets hit with a volley from a plagueneedle a millisecond before they get hit by another guy with a hammer, only the the plagueneedle shot will count. Hell, back when I was new to lockdown people would get so incredibly pissed at me for shooting their targets with a sentenza during some of the huge clusterfark fights. (Now if I gun, I have to kind of sit back and wait for an opening without messing up my team). But aside from my own concerns regarding coordinated team strikes, I think this idea definitely deserves to be tried out.

@ Spold:

Har har, very funny. Mind my usage of common slang for the demographic of players who primarily utilize melee weapons while engaged in third-person competitive combat! But I think you don't give swordfish enough credit, they really need a buff in LD as I haven't seen a single one of them since forever. Seriously, why does no one go swordfish?

@ Adisond:

Altering the use of brandishes & toothpicks in this way was something I had in mind when I originally wrote this thread. Radical changes in use for some weapons will be inevitable, but I think (especially in the cases of toothpicks and brandishes) it will be more like a trade-off. While fast toothpicks & brandishes won't be able to hit-lock players like they do now, they will now no longer be held back in how often they can hit - even the fastest toothpicks today lose attacks if they strike too quickly; that's why any experienced striker will strafe targets after each strike instead of just rapidly shield-canceling the first swing to death like they do in the clockworks. It will be a change in use because it will actually give other players a chance to hit them back, but I don't think it would affect their effectiveness, as the method of zooming in, striking, and strafing around them to strike again would still work, theoretically, but with no IFs it would just be done for different reasons. In the case of brandishes, I think a full brandish charge where all the 'SPLOSIONS hit is well more than enough to compensate. But once again, this is all speculation on my part. Who knows, perhaps their new uses in this hypothetical IF-less future may be even more varied and interesting than they are now (Heck, right off the bat the BTB charge would finally be useful - if used with a full set of chaos it could be used like a fast snarby-shotgun).

@ Klipik:

First thing: I usually use swords in my examples because my internet is not totally reliable, and hence I suck at gunning. Thus, I use swords the most often and because of that I tend to know more about their mechanics. But I can also see how removed or altered IFs could benefit gunners and bombers as well. Second thing: No, I do not, but I'm interested all the same. That would be nifty to know - if I did, I could perhaps make a much more specific and technical suggestion for what IFs should be and for how long. It definitely would be easier to quantitatively test, that's for sure.