Spiral Knights - General map discussions

General map discussions

12 replies [Last post]

Mon, 12/13/2010 - 21:49

BehindCurtai

Legacy Username

Devilish Drudgery: Overtime, every time: Some map tiles have explosion rings. After several encounters, it seems that my idea of "Set off the explosions, let the explosions take out the developers" doesn't work -- either they won't stay in their cubicles, or the cubicles aren't small enough. What does work is to explode everything before the monsters are spawned, then charge through the harmless, unpromoted devs to the managers.

But if you don't have any guns, you have to pick up a pot and throw. Some tiles have pots that are outside of spawning range; some have the pots inside spawning range. Please move all of them outside of spawning range for those people who do not have guns. (Or, just tell us that guns are expected and that the levels will assume that you have guns. Assume guns, assume swords, and who will try unusual combos?)

Mon, 12/13/2010 - 22:42

Nick

Developer

Every level in the game can

Every level in the game can be completed flawlessly with just a gun, just a sword, or just a bomb. Pots are there as a convenience to those without a gun, though even explosive blocks can be destroyed with a sword and without taking damage.

Mon, 12/13/2010 - 23:13

BehindCurtai

Legacy Username

I know that the explosive

I know that the explosive blocks can be destroyed without taking damage if you are careful.

But the point on the devilite levels: If you get close enough to spawn the devs and managers, then you'll have a lot of promoted devilites on your hand. You want to clear the rooms of blocks first.

It wouldn't be so bad if the cubicles were small enough that the monsters took damage from the explosions. Instead, you find yourself being unable to advance too quickly because you need to avoid being hit by the explosions, or you need to wait for the explosions to trigger the "remove all blocks" block, etc -- so there is a major advantage to having some sort of ranged attack.

Now, I discovered that I can throw a vial at the exploding blocks to set them off. So in practice, this only becomes a problem on the first level of the dungeon.

> Every level in the game can be completed flawlessly with just a gun, just a sword, or just a bomb.

Stone grove: If you do not have a throw-able vial, you cannot get the gold key to drop. If you don't have enough to find the gold key release, you won't get the gold key to drop.

I had 4 swords, and searched the whole level for something I could throw. I finally realized that I could try my vials; fortunately, they worked.

Mon, 12/13/2010 - 23:19

BehindCurtai

Legacy Username

Oh -- Every level can be

Oh -- Every level can be completed with just a bomb? Seriously? We're supposed to be able to do that?

Maybe I'll get out my one star armor and try firefly with just a bomb, just for laughs ... Naah, firefly isn't hard enough -- lots of force fields. Maybe an arcade gate. Charging a bomb, consistently, without being hit and your charge broken? With people commenting that bomb radius' are now smaller at low star levels?

Should be an interesting death :-). Mechanical mile, and bomb the bomb throwing gremlins :-).

Mon, 12/13/2010 - 23:20

cyclohexane

Legacy Username

B-Curtz, (that's what I'm

B-Curtz, (that's what I'm calling you from now on, learn to love it) can you provide a screenshot of what in stone grove you're talking about? I myself have never encountered a situation where I've had to throw a vial at anything to progress (which is good as I have crappy aim). Also you seem to have a lot of questions about game play, which is awesome for a beta tester, however some of those questions could be answered if you went gating with someone experienced what are your hours of availability in the next week? I wouldn't mind taking you through some stuff and answering the questions you may have if i can.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 00:24

Evolution

Legacy Username

Erm, Curtai, Nick is right. I

Erm, Curtai, Nick is right. I recently did a run from Haven to Moorcroft with a lvl 1 Blast Bomb (2*) and it worked just fine. It took me around 3-5 bomb hits to kill off a monsters (depending on its size/strength) so that is really doable. Avoiding attacks just until your bomb is charged is not that hard either if your computer isn't lagsauce!

I haven't experienced your issue on Devilite levels so far. I don't play with a gun very often and seem to manage just fine, even on those levels. Although I must say, I think Devilite attack objects need a fix!

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 08:16

Nick

Developer

I should also add that the

I should also add that the design goal of SK is to be able to play however you like. Any future weapon types will be the same way- you can complete a level with just one of them.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 08:27

Evolution

Legacy Username

Future weapon types? :o Do

Future weapon types? :o Do tell more!

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 20:49

BehindCurtai

Legacy Username

> B-Curtz, (that's what I'm

> B-Curtz, (that's what I'm calling you from now on, learn to love it)

Better than "Oz Man"

> can you provide a screenshot of what in stone grove you're talking about? I myself have never encountered a situation where I've had to throw a vial at anything to progress

North end of map has an east-west path.
There are stone blocks off the path, north (most) and south (few).

One of these hides a gold key.

Lacking a gun, the only way to release the key is to toss vials at blocks.

> I should also add that the design goal of SK is to be able to play however you like. Any future weapon types will be the same way- you can complete a level with just one of them.

Gun Puppies are now my "Must ... have ... gun" item. Vials don't do enough to them. Pots don't do enough to them. There aren't always pots around for them. Sitting in front of a spike strip so I have to take piercing floor damage if I try to sword them ... Must ... Have ... Gun!

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 21:12

Kharnor

Legacy Username

Personally I'd like to see

Personally I'd like to see the game be a little less accomodating in this way. Still allow people to get everywhere they want to, but make them work for it if they didn't bring the right weapon.

More sections like that evil one at the end of Spiral Court.

Don't have respawning pots right next to a switch. This is just insulting.
If you're supposed to be able to use a sword, put the switch in reach. If you're not, have a couple of pots just sitting against the wall back at the entrance to the room. Miss three times? You don't get treasure!

Switches that open a door only long enough for you to run through if you A) time it absolutely perfectly or B) have a bomb with a long fuse. There's already a section like this in one of the Shrine of Slumber levels.

More challenges plz. :)

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 21:45

#10

Shroom

Legacy Username

>Devilish Drudgery: Overtime,

>Devilish Drudgery: Overtime, every time: Some map tiles have explosion rings. After several encounters, it seems that my idea of "Set off the explosions, let the explosions take out the developers" doesn't work -- either they won't stay in their cubicles, or the cubicles aren't small enough. What does work is to explode everything before the monsters are spawned, then charge through the harmless, unpromoted devs to the managers.

>But if you don't have any guns, you have to pick up a pot and throw. Some tiles have pots that are outside of spawning range; some have the pots inside spawning range. Please move all of them outside of spawning range for those people who do not have guns. (Or, just tell us that guns are expected and that the levels will assume that you have guns. Assume guns, assume swords, and who will try unusual combos?)

I think you're approaching the entire thing backwards in the first place. The normal devilites take the fewest hits, while the bosses take the most by far. Not only that, but the unpromoted ones are hardly harmless. Instead of running to the bosses, just take out the little guys. The bosses will then just stand around doing nothing, and you can kill them at your leisure. Besides, killing a boss will change a small devilite into another boss, so you're effectively only killing a small one anyway.

It also seems more like an exploit to detonate the explosives before they even spawn.

Also...
>developers
>cubicles
While I understand what you mean, it would help with communication if you didn't make up names for things.

>More sections like that evil one at the end of Spiral Court.

I really don't know how you'd complete this without the right stuff. I never use a gun, but my winmillion shoots projectiles, making the explosives no problem. I also have a bomb, so I can delay the switch, too. But if I only had a sword without a projectile, how would I clear the explosives? Even if I got to the part with the pots, picking them up would waste too much time. I already barely make it as it is.

Don't get me wrong. I like challenges like that. I just think this one is significantly harder (maybe even impossible) with certain setups.

>Don't have respawning pots right next to a switch. This is just insulting.

Most of the time, out-of-reach switches aren't supposed to be puzzles. Using a gun just makes these situations a lot more convenient. That comic is pretty much unrelated.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 23:18

#11

Shoebox

But if I only had a sword

But if I only had a sword without a projectile, how would I clear the explosives? - Shroom

At the right distance, you can hit an explosive without being exploded. I do it all the time when I'm too lazy to switch to my gun.
That said, it's not immediately apparent and would require experimentation.

Future weapon types? :o Do tell more! - Evolution

There are two icons in the resource folders currently without any corresponding weapons, Lance and Shotgun.
So I would imagine they are going to make an appearance some time.

Personally I'd like to see the game be a little less accomodating in this way. Still allow people to get everywhere they want to, but make them work for it if they didn't bring the right weapon. - Kharnor

Having to buy more weapon slots for convenience isn't all that accommodating.
Although, I did propose a number of ideas to make using multiple weapon types more desirable.

Wed, 12/15/2010 - 18:41

#12

BehindCurtai

Legacy Username

I agree that the end of

I agree that the end of spiral court 2 -- with the timer switch, spikes, exploding blocks, etc -- is a pain.

Yes, bombs give you a little extra time -- I didn't think of that. That's useful.

Yes, guns are useful.

* But I could solve that, with just swords, on my PPC Mac *

Painful? Yes -- I took a bar of damage
Uncontrolled? Yes -- Crossing over the final doorway puts me on the elevator immediately, with no way to pause and decide which next level I want to take.

But it can be solved, with just swords.

Hint: Look around. Examine your environment.
It was a challenging puzzle the first time; it'll just be a pain the next time. Next time? I won't voluntarily take SC 2 next time.

===
> killing a boss will change a small devilite into another boss,

NAARRGH. And I thought I was preventing the nasty promoted guys from showing up, so I could kill the weaker ones at my leisure.

===
> I myself have never encountered a situation where I've had to throw a vial at anything to progress (which is good as I have crappy aim)

How to aim:
1. Stick your mouse pointer over the target destination.
2. Press fire.

No need to aim, because you don't miss the mouse pointer.

Yea, if you don't know that, and are just moving the mouse around you to aim, you might miss a bunch.

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General map discussions