Spiral Knights - Violent Lockdown Resolution (GvG Lockdown Solution)

Violent Lockdown Resolution (GvG Lockdown Solution)

133 replies [Last post]

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:45

Njthug

Violent Lockdown Resolution (VLR)

Intro:

Violent Lockdown Resolution (VLR) is created of many active guilds in lockdown and some known guilds, which would love to participate more often in lockdown. These guilds have all agreed to a set of rules they will follow when playing one another, and by doing this we will achieve cleaner guild vs guild lockdown environment.

Our Goals:

The Rules:

Rule 1: Revive Rule

Each player on a team can only revive themselves three times per a game. Which means your rev’s will be 2, 4, 8 energy, which gives us a grand total of 14 energy per game per player or 84 energy per team.

Rule 2: Pulsars Rule

Only Two Members of each team is allowed to use the pulsars line. This means on each team only two players can use this line. If more than two players use this line you will be breaking the rules.

Rule 3: Spawn Camping Rule

You are not allowed to spawn camp a guilds base. This means no laying down bombs, or gun spamming the outside of your opponents’ base. Yes, you are allowed to have one or two players fighting on the outside of the base, but no entrapment of the other team. *More details: A base = the area which the other team is safe (Lockerroom) you are not allowed to have more than 2 players outside this area waiting for the other team members to come out to kill them. No bombing or gun spam outside this area either*

Rule 4: Bomber Rule

Only Two Guardian bombers are allowed on each team. You can have more than two bombers per a team, but as far as classes go only two of them can be guardian. *More info: Team of 6: 2 guardian bombers, 2 Recon Bombers, and 2 Striker Bombers ---- You can do this. 3 Guardian Bombers 3 strikers --- This is breaking the rules*

The Guilds Involved:

Want to get in contact with the guilds listed?

13. A perfect World

Feel Free to Contact these players if you ever wish to fight them

Want to join our VLR to help promote a friendlier and cleaner GvG Lockdown?

Feel free to contact:

Njthug

(You can mail me, and if you add me as a friend please write a message so I know it is for VLR otherwise I will not accept)

Try this Out:

When fighting before the match starts to remind each other of these rules feel free to Copy and Paste this into the chat box:

Hey guys we are following the VLR rules so remember 3 revs each per player, only 2 players on a team can use a pulsar line, no spawn camping, and 2 guard bombers max!

Feel Free to post questions and comments here <69.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:45

Njthug

Changes etc. Here

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:48

Ragyo-Kiryuin

Reserved for later.

In case I feel like sharing my opinion at some point.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:03

Dragneel-Wiki

Umm...

I suppose this is an Anti-Pulsars group. But...

You didn't solve any problem for the smaller guilds, maybe a bit, but nothing will be noticed. I mean, 3 revives are more than enough to beat the crap out of an average Guild in LD. And only 3 Pulsars? Owell... That isn't going to be noticed, because it is also more than enough if 3 players are spamming Polaris around the map. Spawn Camping Rule is good, but it won't shine if the other 2 rules aren't done perfectly.

You probably should lower the number of revives and Pulsars, really.

And I appreciate that you are trying to help smaller guilds, but sadly, it is not really possible to do that.

~Dragneel

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:13

Moonsoon

I demand Orbitals!

One Pulsar must be replaced with a Catalyzer. -_^

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:14

Zangrious

Only GVG?

I don't find the idea of limiting this to just GVG to be positive. Granted, I'm sure it would be difficult to get people who have gotten used to Spawn Camping and other things like that to stop. I just feel like if you're going to pass out these guidelines, that it would be better to try and spread them all around.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:29

Njthug

I am saving my love I been waiting for you Im saving my love =0

just for you!!

@Wiki --- Sadly man I do not think any system can 100% guarantee weaker or smaller GvG ld guilds will not get murder, but many of the guilds involved from what I know do not try to bully other guilds, and this does give some sort of chance to smaller guilds. I know for Eos majority meaning like 97% of us wont use a polaris unless others use one, and in terms of Ce rev I do know Eos only Ce revs at times when we get 20 second timers and we are 2 inpatient to wait, but we try our best to well not beat up on weaker guilds best as possible.

@Zangrious -- One step at a time first we will try GvG and see how this goes, but I do think overall Lockdown is close to impossible. I might have better luck unboxing a Prismatic item from an iron lockbox =(.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:36

Tin-Foil-Hat

No Hammer rule ? :)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:05

Dragneel-Wiki

@Njay :

Ok, how about this :

EoS plays against Guild X.
Guild X is one of the guilds that have agreed on the VLR rules.
One of Guild's X players break one of the rules. ( Say it was Spawn Camping )

What would happen? Would it be :

EoS Spawn Camps Guild X next match or inside the same match?
All of EoS players leave the match?
Guild X should pay a fee for what they've done?

This concerns me actually, so I'd like to hear a reasonable answer. And if you can, add this : "What would happen if one of the listed Guilds broke the rules?" And so on...

~Dragneel <3

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:07

Troupe-Forums

@post #7

Hammers are only nasty in the right hands. And people that are good with the hammer are generally good enough to butcher you with just about anything else.

Goddam dragneel posting at the same time

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:11

#10

Njthug

@Dragneel-Wiki --- Nothing really happens man if they are constantly breaking rules we will remove them from this agreement and they can enjoy fighting guilds which love to fight with no rules, but after talking to the guild masters and officers of these guilds, and they all assured me this is what they wanted from Lockdown forever I do not see many rule breaking.

#2: I do feel if a guild master or officer stresses to a player in their guild hey make sure you follow these rules when you are playing GvG vs these guys etc, and the player blatantly ignores it and breaks the rule. The Gm's/Officers might deal with it on their own since no one in my view would like to be that guild which gets caught cheating just makes your guild look bad.

I personally think from the list I can say 80% of that list will try their best to follow the rules. I do see at times certain players breaking rules mistakes happen, but I do not expect the whole team not to follow the rules unless they really hate this, but then why sign up etc.

@Tin-Foil-Hat --- --- All of us or more than majority of us agreed it was not a huge factor in Lockdown for us.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:00

#11

Terra-Necro

I'm kinda miffed that Jempire

I'm kinda miffed that Jempire and Dauntless aren't on the list. Would you like me to ask them, Njthug?

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 15:40

#12

Mayaura

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:17

#13

Terra-Necro

The reason for any choice of

The reason for any choice of a class is that not all specialized guardian players could be on when the time for GvG comes around. Guardian is a hard class to use (especially for no asi players) and requires time to master.

an ex. would be Crustycrab. He's a very skilled guardian player, but there's no guarantee he will be on if his guild does a GvG. Why force a player to use a class they are not comfortable with?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:21

#14

Mayaura

hi, Terra

"Because it's hard" is not a legitimate reason NOT to do something.

Why not force players to do something they are not comfortable with in order to make the game more challenging and ultimately more fun?
Players probably aren't comfortable with it due to the over-emphasis on striker/damage. As long as every team is "handicapped" in the same way, it's fair.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:31

#15

Terra-Necro

Not really if a guild has

Not really if a guild has players (2 good at recon, 2 good at guardian, and any of the rest). They are technically at an advantage if people follow your specification for GvG gameplay.

It still doesn't seem very fair. Besides, players tend to change classes depending on their opponent. Just limiting each player to a specific class would defeat the purpose of even having players a chance to change classes during a game...

I do see what your mean about the "not good enough" excuse though.

edit: hi Mawashimono

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:15

#16

Quiknine

Great initiative. I suggest

Great initiative.

I suggest the requiremnts be tighter though. No revs, no polaris. One gong and you're cheating. One polaris squeak and you are cheating. Are we truly interested in determining guild + player skill, or what? You can't do this by halves. Any opportunity to buy or spam your way to victory should be eliminated completely.

Now how about OOO enforce some of these rules so as to make GvG arena more competetive. Many of the rules could be hard coded. e.g. limit revives, limit polaris with a loadout check at join. Then again they could also have nerfed polaris at some point in the last two years, because everybody with any sense hates it. They could have also developed a points/reward system that is worth something.

Clearly though, they don't give a damn, and have no intention of making GvG more appealing to the medium/small guild. E.g. Guilds ranked in the top 10 at the end of week get to purchase special accessories or furniture, or some other carebeary crap that tends to attract non-traditional PvPers. +10% CR gain or myst regen to the top ranking guilds is a more general reward that would attract substantial guild participation.

What about a betting system for spectators to particpate in while watching the top guilds play? Its not fun to get outplayed and spammed to death if there is not event the promise of a reward

What about anything from the developers to make GvG better. /huff

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 04:35

#17

Shidara

Outsider input here so take

Outsider input here so take it for what it's worth, but regarding the Pulsar clause, three seems like a lot even with this rule. You really don't need more than three people with a pulsar to make a full-fledged carpet so I'm questioning just how effective the three-man restriction would be. In a full 6-v-6 you've still 50% of the present players armed with pulsars, so I would personally place it at 33%, making it a two-man restriction.

Again, this is what one would call outsider input, as I have only seen glimpses of GvG games in play so how it all works out only you can judge. I just wanted to say that it seems like a lot of people to me still so to have input from someone with experience on this would be appreciated for those who may be looking to enter the Guild versus Guild arena but haven't quite made it there yet.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 05:12

#18

Fodow

@ Boycotting Suggestions

Our goal is not to make things more competetive, but to make a cleaner and fun environment for guilds to play in, encouraging more guilds to join in.

~Fodow

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 05:54

#19

Aus-Lagger

As long as there are high

As long as there are high latency players, there will be blood. One cannot simply play with high latency and remain as calm as a guatama buddha.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:05

#20

Dragneel-Wiki

@Fodow The Bunny :

Erm... Why are you people hating on Polaris and Supernova? .-.

I find Valiance and Argent Peacemaker/Sentenza spam more annoying, due to the knockback for Valiance, and cancelling for AP/Sentenza.

Shouldn't you also think about them?

Owell...

@Njay :

I see. Well, I can't but wish you luck in this, it might work after all.

And one last question. If Guild X agreed on VLR rules, would that imply on GvG matches against Guilds which didn't agree on them? I mean for example, EoS plays with Guild Y, who isn't written in that list, will the VLR rules imply on you? Or you will fight normally?

Thanks!

~Dragneel

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 07:47

#21

Bert-Banana

But I has to CE revive to the 1k every game. :(

I'm sure Rig is down for this, but I'll chat with the members when I get back on my comp.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:15

#22

Fallconn

FALCON PUNCH!

Glad I made that biohazard @_@

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:15

#23

Alternate-Dragon

Make the polaris limit 2

Make the polaris limit 2 cause once I played with 3 polaris spammrs on both team, and it is impossible to do anything since the entire screen is blue. Shock galore!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:36

#24

Njthug

Ooo So many Questions so little time =0

@Terra --- I would love to ask Dauntless, I attempted to get in contact with their Guild Master I just couldnt find them online. As far as Jempire goes they just have different views currently on how to make the lockdown community better in terms of gvg.

@Mawa -- Majority of the guilds playing do want to revive a little bit this just makes reviving a bit of a factor, but nothing which will over power the other guild. As far as adding a rule to you must need x class in my view we are turning Lockdown into communist Russia then. The whole idea behind this is to get majority of the guilds in this game which are active in GvG, along with others who wish to be active, but are well a bit terrified of that pulsar usage to give it a shot. As far as the 3 Pulsar rule, I do know Imper, Eos, Unity, Tnw, Solo Art, and The Fallen will most likely have less than 3 pulsar users unless it is needed due to other guilds relying on it a bit more.

@Quikine --- Our goal is not to remove a weapon or certain add-ons Three Rings put into Lockdown, but we wish to limit them. Not all of the guilds so far that joined dislike the pulsar line or would love to have no ce revs. As far as players cheating it is a factor, but I believe if players truly want a cleaner GvG Ld community and well just a bit more fun and less rage about spam this is the only answer for it right now. As far as Three Rings goes if this works out well you never know they may change lockdown up so some of these rules can come into play.

@Shidara --- These rules are just a base if we notice many issues I will meet with every officer/guildmaster of the other guilds and talk to them if we can find a better solution if all of us as a community feels this rule is not working out.

@Aus-Lagger --- Sadly I have no way of fixing the lag issue.

@Dragneel-wiki --- I know what majority of Eos will be doing and that is either trolling them in the fight or give them a clean fight using the rules still and after asking them to join VLR. In my own personal opinion if this idea does work out it does have many positives along with a few flaws, but if any guild is into GvG this will be the way to play. The guilds that do not wish to abide by VLR either 1. Do not know about it 2. I have not asked since it is close to impossible for me to get in contact with everyone 3. Just feel that doing this will not change the GvG Lockdown community.

@Snarkey --- Yay when I talked to Mwacky he told me Rig would be down for sure, and will tell his guildees etc.

@Overall Rules --- I do not see us changing the rules currently, all of the guilds listed agreed that these rules seem to sound pretty fair. If we realize over-time that one or more rules need to be added or edited we will do so, but with that said all of the guilds involved would have to agree upon the changes etc.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:42

#25

Canine-Vladmir

Hey Oh!

cool. my guild MIGHT be interested.
Theon has this thing for GvGs. Ill tell him.
Kinda cool that your trying to fix a big ole problem.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:58

#26

Gwenyvier

"Erm... Why are you people

"Erm... Why are you people hating on Polaris and Supernova? .-."

The reason a large majority of people that wish to do GvG dislike the Pulsar line is because it has very high knockback combined with a 3x3 block AoE (and Shock for the Polaris). It is not like other guns where you actually have to aim to hit your target. You just have to aim in the general direction and fire it, no skill/aim required (I actually proved that one in a test, gave the controls to my roommate who never played SK before and she got a few kills by firing the Polaris at people, AA turned off). Get a few people doing that in the same general direction and you have a wall that is impossible to get through.

The people doing GvG want to have fun and generally test their skill against other semi-organized to organized teams. And the impossible to dodge wall is neither.

~Gwen

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:55

#27

Stelli

yeah i think no revs would be

yeah i think no revs would be good, or just 1.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:24

#28

Mr-Crazy-Blaster

Hey there, this is

Hey there, this is interesting and I would like to see it implemented in the game,

But what about limiting toothpick/Antigua line as well to only a number of players? as it is I currently see that it is spammed way more than polaris, i.e. hit, shield cancel, hit, shield cancel, hit, shield cancel and so on... if this is not spamming then I call bs, if a person is fast enough the other player can't even move due to this, this also applies to the Antigua line.

Best regards

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 10:18

#29

Amanzi

Eh, not the kind of fairness I care about.

It's nice but the main reasons why less PvP oriented guilds don't really GvG is Je--jealousy of UVs, Trinkets, and P2P stuff.
It'd be silly to demand that no one uses uses anything with a UV but I have two ideas that'd make LD a lot less scary for the casuals:

1. Proto LD: Everyone uses only proto armor and proto weapons (Sword, gun, bomb) or only 0star items are allowed; I can't decide which.
2. Cheap LD: The OCH weapons are banned and slot upgrades are banned. (This means no trinkets and only two weapons.)

I love my hammer way too much but I find this to be much fairer than "Only so many trollguns and you can only rev three times."

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 10:49

#30

Daystorm

The Fallen

I completely agree with these rules. Although as stated above in a couple of posts we should lower the number of pulsar users to 2.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 11:54

#31

Rangerwillx

As others have said..

3 per team is still a large amount of pulsars, and it is way too much. Limit it to one or two per team, but I would personally like 0 per team, but I doubt that will happen. One rez per player seems more fair to me as well, or none.
My favorite idea is proto LD, which I've done before as subbing in T1 LD, and it is great fun and it really shows skill, not gear and spamming abilities (i.e polaris/flourish spamming). Of course, we could never have a completely perfect GvG, as computers will always show the most important things.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:27

#32

Eclaium

I think the 3 pulsar rule can

I think the 3 pulsar rule can be either "still too many" or "decent"
the "spamness" of the pulsar depends on how much the members use the weapon, not the number of pulsars in a team. Even if 6 people have pulsars in a team, if they don't use 'em that often that's no problem. But if there is only one person with polaris but is "spamming" a pulsar, it is a bigger problem than having 6 people with pulsars who don't use the weapon a lot.
We should say that the amount of pulsar "spam" is limited instead of the number of pulsar. However, the problem is that a we can neither define "spam" nor measure the amount of pulsar "spam"

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:40

#33

Icegill

Boom!

@Njthug; If this does work out and you manage to control this lockdown community, you'll be able to introduce new types of LD games as stated partially by Amanzi. It's more of a customized/tweaked game of LD that will be agreed upon 2 guilds before the match starts. For example, I'll use one of Amanzi's suggestions and introduce "Proto LD". Everyone will be in 5* armor, trinkets except everyone fights with a proto sword. This is a fair, chaotic but a very slow type of game. I'm sure the creativity of this community will come up with a revamped alternative of LD soon enough. This can only be achieved through agreement and control which has rarely been done within the last year.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:55

#34

Iexi

Quick question

Are we allowed to break these rules when gvging The Jempire?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 13:00

#35

Redblades

@rangerwill
3 per team is fair, as teams usually cap in pairs. one pulsar instead of 2 is a LARGE difference. also, using no pulsars against a good bomber like huntr is like sitting down watching him cap.
EDIT: even WITH pulsars, it will take you probably all 3 to take him down in a good time

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 13:17

#36

Pepperonius

TNW Represent

For those asking, while the limit of pulsars is 3, as nj mentioned most of the guilds who signed on dont pulsar. We have maybe 3 polaris users in our guild, and seldom more than 1 online.

Secondly, we are more than open to specific rules in LD gvg. For instance, you want normal damage only no trinkets? Lets do it. Bombs only? We will do our best! No och or trinkets? Sure! While we do enjoy winning, what we enjoy even more is having a ton of fun in gvg.

Lastly, while Jempire may not sign on to these rules, TNW has faced them many times, and I can assure you that for the most part they will treat you with respect and follow the spirit of these rules. We know we wont beat Jemp yet, but when they face us they make sure we uave fun, and want to fight again.

If you have questions, or want to face TNW in gvg, message myself or lycheesoup to set up a time!

Big thanks to Nj for working to improve the community and gameplay for everyone.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 13:26

#37

Retequizzle

Not a bad thread all in all.

Not a bad thread all in all. Didn't care much for the idea either way until I got looped into playing some GvG against Imperv today and I've gotta say, there were some pretty solid matches there.

So yeah, I approve.

I'm sure we can fit in stuff for the people who think the hammer's just too OP not to be included as well if that becomes an issue later, but as is the thread's a good foundation for improvements to the GvG community. Enough to where I might play a bit more often, which is saying a fair bit on its own.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 13:35

#38

Njthug

Dirty Dave you see these shackles baby Im your slave its just =0

@Icegill --- Yes if this method of rules work with majority or even all the active guilds in Lockdown it would be amazing since eventually we can all agree to some silly rules in Lockdown to have some more fun. (Tier 3 Ld with 5* weapons proto/groundbreaker armor, Trokia only PvP, etc. etc.), but we need to focus on this one goal first to try to make sure everyone can have some clean fights with no rule breaking, and like many suggested possibly changing up the rules if needed.

@Sarfalicious --- You can fight whichever way you wish to against any guild which is not a part of this "peace treaty".

@Redblades --- I think the three pulsar rule for now is very useful, and today Eos vs Imperv both teams had two bombers each, and from the games I only noticed 1 to 2 pulsar users on each side majority of the guilds just used alchmer charges, Ap's and sentenzas. I personally, think most guilds will have 1 to 2 pulsar users majority of the time unless the other guild wishes to use 3 players.

@Perronius --- Thank you for your support man glad to have TNW part of this as well, and yes I have to agree with you on the pulsar comment majority of the guilds listed I am pretty sure a lot of them rather not have a polaris fight, but they do feel since it is a tactic used in Lockdown we need to keep in in the game to be fair. As far as Jempire goes I know many guilds on the list will deal with them however they please. Eos is taking a trolling tactic of not playing hard against them majority of the fights since we rather see them help out with the community, and overall have fun playing lockdown instead of seeing walls of polaris.

@Overall --- Thank for all the guilds who joined this cause so far, and I hope to see a lot more join in the future. I do know a few more guilds are thinking about joining us in this. This idea is a great idea, and I am happy myself and Eos can help set this up, but without support from all the other guilds and the officers, Guild masters, and members of these guilds we will not be able to succeed.

@Imperv --- Imperv and Eos had about 5 to 8 fights today using these rules each match was brutally hard since both teams stood toe-to-toe and overall outcome was close fights and great sportsmanship on both sides. I can't wait to fight them again <69!!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 15:20

#39

Pepperonius

I forgot to mention

Nj, be sure to talk to rogue. Bunch of solid folk over there. Talk to Azoldria or Damienfoxy. Or you know what? Ill talk to them.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:17

#40

Terra-Necro

Guess I'll be the Dauntless representative and ask Minimetaknight if he's ready to join. I'll post an answer as soon as I can talk to him.

~Kiryufazer

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:27

#41

Aiden-Curry-Puff

Not a LD player, but +1 for a sensible and player generated solution to issues that potentially break the fun out of the game.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:48

#42

In-Exile

Dem Hammers

I hate them, especially with AA(Hammers). They're too OP. I don't mind polaris but I loathe hammers

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:23

#43

Darkcub

+1 NJ ^^

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:27

#44

Canozo

Palo be hating on Hammers :<

*AA Combo spams Palo*

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:38

#45

Redblades

/me comboes hammer 2 times in a row
/me tbags palo
/y YEAAAA!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:12

#46

Our-Little-Ajo

Cleaner LD??

This rules was made only to fight Jemps.

If you really want to do something good and DECENT, add a no-AIMBOT rule in that list.

But knowing some of the players in that list, and how much they need Aimbot in a JAVA game, you can ignore my comment.

I'll do a tutorial of how "not-suck" in LD without Aimbot. That way the boys and girls in your list will have something to start.

Something like this but with a nice video

http://imageshack.us/photo/photo/228/imageppx.jpg/

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 07:54

#47

Retequizzle

I feel like if anyone needs a

[ Actually, after sleeping on it, taking a page out of Dragneel's book and deleting my previous comment. ]

No sense in ruining a group effort just to prove a point. Even I've got limits.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:39

#48

Troupe-Forums

/me watches this thread becomes contaminated with the drama that it was supposed to prevent

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:25

#49

Dragneel-Wiki

[ Comment deleted by author, to avoid flammable wars ]

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 09:04

#50

Good-Spirit

I approve of the limits. Low

I approve of the limits. Low polaris and low ce revs = major fun.
Will attempt to convince others by shooting their polaris ce revving faces off in RLD with sentenza.

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Violent Lockdown Resolution (GvG Lockdown Solution)