Draycos' Battle Sprites Feedback (UPDATED SEPTEMBER 7th)

@Thunder-The-Bright
For how much time it'd take to clump them together with a Supernova and shieldbumping, 226 even spread to 5 targets is still very weak, even when comparing it to the other Sprites.
I never meant to imply the other abilities didn't need any special effort to use maximally. I'm just saying that Drakon takes the most to even come close to performing as well as the other Sprites. You actually don't want to be really close to something with Quills; it caps at 4 per enemy (but try using a fast, multi-hit weapon with it...). Ray is definitely good on defense, and you can hide behind it as a wall even if you miss your targets completely.
See my other posts for what I think of Firestorm. I'm tired.
Concerning Brandishes being a bad comparison, I've done some more flailing around and found the same kind of results with WRH's swing-dash combo, Sealed Sword normal attacks (in the right circumstances) and charges, Alchemer charges, Leviathan/CIV/FoV charges, Dark Retribution, Dark Briar Barrage...
@Mawashimono
I think I know about as much as it's possible to know about the gameplay mechanics, and I like to think I have a good judgement when it comes to improving them. And I want them improved. Battle Sprites (or classes and abilities, rather) in particular have massive potential, as long as they're done right. I want this game to be truly fun for me again.

those are better weapons and are a lot.
pushing with a supernova is way easier than you would expect. not everyone has a supernova, yes. that's a big problem. so, I'll agree with you.
I don't expect anything new on firestorm. and this ends the conversation.

Bumping for visibility. I don't exactly have anything more I can add, but surely other people do, or at least they might find this interesting.

If there's anything I'd like to add for Drakon, it's that firebolt should probably get a damage boost and not depend on setting the enemy on fire to deal good damage. Not only are fire enemies immune to burning, but Firebolt doesn't always set enemies on fire anyways. Flame Barrier also needs some tweaking, since it barely helps with damage or defense. Heck, even hitting the enemy with a sword whacks them out of range to the Flame Barrier's fireballs, save for heavy ones like lumbers. Firestorm barely does anything and the large cooldown it has is not helping. It needs some initial damage with how it has such booming sound effects when it uses it. I don't have the ultimates yet, but so far, Drakon doesn't really seem like an offensive sprite to me. It relies too much on setting things on fire to deal damage, which doesn't always happen anyways.
You guys already suggested a lot of stuff though.

It was a tough choice for me between drakon and seraphynx, but I'm glad I chose seraphynx over drakon just for the sheer brokenness of drakon vs. the other sprites. For being "offencive", drakon is stupidly weak, even seraphynx can do more damage if done correctly. I am all for buffing drakon, it needs it sorely. I will focus more on what I think seraphynx needs simply because it is the sprite I own and thus know most about, though. My seraphynx is only level 32, however, I have a few friends who have maxed out theirs and from what I have seen, most of seraphynx's abilities are rubbish. Ray of light in general needs to have the hit limit removed but with the trade of using a diminishing damage scale because, seriously, that laser is OP as hell. Also, I fully agree that dazzling light ray desperately needs a larger hit box. Heart attack, from what I have seen with my own sprite and the sprites of others, is a waste to use; the "increased amount" of heart drops is so little, it is almost completely negligible and should be increased. Angelic aura is almost a joke in my opinion, pretty much 5 seconds of protection is just enough to block....well.....a hit or two....but it also gives enemies time to line up their hits on you the second the shield is down, thus being of negative effectiveness unless anyone using it has some really good dodging skills.
this thread is fantastic, the amount of thought and experience going into it is unrivaled by anything else i have seen on the forums thus far. Also, please note that I don't claim to be any sort of authority on game mechanics, and as such, a lot of the suggestions in my post are probably mind numbingly stupid and mostly out of opinion.
Why a damage and attack buff for the Seraphynx and an attack and chargetime buff for the Drakon? Do we have Friday? :D

copypasted from the last thread you said this on
"Yes, I originally proposed a damage buff to Seraphynx's laser; after further discussion with other people who had tested it more accurately, I settled on diminishing returns in order to give it more utility without actually buffing its damage. I also mentioned changing Violent Heart Attack to influence the party's attack power somehow, my reasoning being it's too similar to Haunted Haze and doesn't fit with the supportive role (and two "themes" of the ultimate choices- boost defense or boost offense) Seraphynx is advertised for.
If you bothered to read all the posts you'd already know my reasoning for swapping out the damage boost with a CTR boost, but here you go: the damage boost doesn't actually change anything because it's so weak, even if it's a team buff. It's inferior to Frenzied Firestorm, which is already pretty sub-par, and giving it some team CTR would make it more useful and actually make something happen. No problem there.

After some more thought I've decided this is worth posting: the concept of Sprites getting their ultimates at the highest levels is awful design. With my proposed changes aside, I'm going to look at Sprites again with this in mind.
Ask yourself this: how much do Sprites really add to gameplay until they get their ultimates? Very little. Maskeraith has the most gameplay depth amongst the three, but the others need to get to 90+ in order to add something new to the game.
Drakon: Almost completely useless until 90+, where he's just okay. Firebolt is no better than a Magma Driver bullet, arguably even worse. Flame Barrier is fundamentally flawed to begin with and is only remotely useful when you get Backfire Barrier. Firestorm is pathetic until you get to Explosive Firestorm wherein it's difficult to use to meaningful effect, and Frenzied Firestorm may as well just be a team buff (of which only the ASI contributes much, while also potentially getting your teammates hurt). All three of his abilities are boring until 90+, two of which just being "okay" and the other being extremely good while being useful for totally different reasons than what the skill was intended for.
Seraphynx: Decently useful, but extremely bland. Ray of Light deals decent amounts of damage even with its hit limit in place, and picks up a defense debuff that, similarly to Frenzied Firestorm, doesn't do all too much except for multi-hit weapons or guns. It's still much better than Frenzied because it isn't totally useless as a base skill and has a comparatively lower cooldown. Heart Attack is bland and boring to use- run inside the enemies, use it, run away and kill them normally. Its ults don't change up the game too much, either. Angelic Aura is a fairly useful ability that opens up some otherwise-stupid tactics, like sitting in the middle of enemies while bombing. Valkyrian Aura and Seraphic Aura both allow for more aggressive play to a greater extent. Two of Seraphynx's abilities are bland until 90, where one is slightly less and the other barely changes.
Maskeraith: The dangerous balloon ghost is by far the most skill-intensive and game-changing Sprite, and is extremely fun to use because of that. Whoever designed this one needs to rework the other Sprites. Caustic Quills are fairly powerful, but are exponentially more powerful with multi-hit weapons. Vengeful Quills further improve its multi-hitter's-dream properties (and is a much better choice than just giving the quills more spread-fire), but Virulent Quills don't change him up all too much. Shadow Cloak is fairly useful on its own, and Deadly Cloak gives it a lot of assassination power. Vengeful Cloak doesn't do all too much, but helps when you're using it to get out of nasty situations (I.E. you can't just cloak away, and you get hit anyways). Hexing Haze feels like what Flame Barrier could have been, albeit without a damage delay. I think it's a little too easy to use, though. Haunted Haze might as well not even exist right now, and Chaotic Haze is a tradeoff for power at the cost of certainty.
So why is Maskeraith "the best design"? Because he actually adds something to the game before he's 90+, where he adds even more.
The concept of acquiring skill points to use on skills to decrease their cooldown/increase their power/duration/range is a façade; you have to upgrade everything completely in order to make them actually change through ultimates.
"So, Draycos, if this system is so crappy, how would you do it?"
Well, here's what I would do if it was possible to totally rework Sprites. I'd remove "ultimates" entirely and build them into skills at their base, while buffing the basic skills to their "maxed" stats (I.E. what a skill's stats are when you've pumped 9 SP into it for all three of its options). You'd have three options for each ability- and as opposed to having two gamechangers, you have three. Here's the catch, though- you can pick two. You'd need to use an Ultimate Catalyst for each option, though, meaning you'd need double the UC's total. You'd get power increases and SP as normal, though, so you won't be able to hit like a truck from level 1, no matter how rich you are. At first, you can only pick one ultimate per skill, but you can unlock a second one after a certain level.
Currently, your Sprite unlocks its abilities at level 1, 15, and 50. It then gains its ultimates at 90, 95, and 100.
I propose this instead: first ability at 1, second ult for first ability at 15, second ability at 30, second ult for second ability at 50, third ability at 75, and second ult for third ability at 100. In a less-wordy string of numbers, milestones would be at 1/15/30/50/75/100 instead of 1/15/30/50/90/95/100. Additionally, you won't be able to level your Sprite's abilities past rank 1 until level 30, and rank 2 until 75.
Alright, I know what you're thinking. How the heck are ultimates going to change up visuals for Sprites if they're currently meant to appear at their T3 forms? Simple. They won't. Instead of forcing players to choose between aesthetics or effectiveness, we'll put to use those 3 empty slots in the Sprite Info page. Yeah, you heard me. Sprite accessories. You'd get accessory tickets for free when you choose the respective ult, according to the ult. You'd only get the ticket once you max out the ult, too, so you don't get them at level 20 or so and go "what in blazes am I supposed to use this thing for, it isn't working!".
Let's use Drakon as an example, since we all know how much I love him.
Firebolt (Improved base damage)
-Excessive Firepower: Boosts the Firebolt's damage by 10% per level. Also boosts the power of its Fire status.
-Concussive Impact: Adds a chance to cause Stun, and increases the odds of causing Fire. Boosts both chances further with additional levels.
-Meteoric Blast: Increases the distance the Firebolt can travel, and gives it a larger explosion radius. Distance and explosion size even more with more levels.
Flame Barrier (MSI boost [albeit lower than Backfire] is now part of the base skill, uses overshield)
-Afterburner: Increases the amount of movement speed you get, and how long it lasts.
-Dragon Armor: Boosts the amount of shielding you get.
-Overheat: Increases the amount of orbs to 3 and boosts their offensive power. Further levels don't add more orbs, but increase their size and power more.
Firestorm (Flat damage on creation of each circle of fire)
-Spontaneous Combustion: Increases the power of the Fire status and adds explosions. Higher levels mean more explosions!
-Burning Anger: On activation and for a short time after the Firestorm ends, you and your teammates gain ASI and +15% damage. Higher levels increase the ASI and duration of the buff.
-Scorching Winds: Increases the range of the Firestorm and sucks in enemies not resistant to knockback.
Reasoning for each choice, maxed out options, etc.
Firebolt: Let's face it. No one in their right mind would ever pick Concussive Firebolt over Meteoric Firebolt.
With three choices and two picks, you have three potential maxed out Firebolts: massive damage with great Fire/Stun chances, massive damage with high range but more inconsistency, or a lower damage but high-range Stun/Fire tool.
Flame Barrier: Scorching Barrier has little to no use compared to Backfire Barrier. I expanded on the uses of Backfire Barrier's MSI while giving Scorching Barrier's effects more viability by adding a defense-boost choice.
Your three choices of Barriers are: high speed, high defense (perfect for taking out key targets and getting out of nasty situations)/high speed, high damage (taking out key targets with speed rather than safety)/high damage and high defense (lets you take a few hits while landing some nasty attacks you wouldn't be able to safely land otherwise).
Firestorm: The initial-damage buff was obvious; you've seen me talk about that enough times already. Frenzied Firestorm was adding too little to be viable, and Explosive Firestorm was "just right" but not enough to be more useful than our Knights' actual weaponry. A mini-vortex that can't pull enemies as effectively as a Vortex can while still offering some crowd control offers some nice utility while not invalidating the Vortex bombs' existences (which is only important because Vortex bombs are pretty weak and outright dangerous to use in some situations).
Your three Firestorms are: a powerful AoE damage tool that buffs your teammates, a powerful AoE tool that doesn't require a Vortex to land consistently, and a team buff/CC tool that sets up other attacks for your team.
How each choice might affect ability appearances...
Excessive Firepower: Makes the Firebolt a lot redder, as opposed to orange.
Concussive Impact: Adds stars, like Concussive Firebolt.
Meteoric Blast: Adds whites and blues, alongside a more pronounced explosion, like Meteoric Firebolt.
Afterburner: Adds blues, like part of Backfire Barrier.
Dragon Armor: Adds some whites, like the other part of Backfire Barrier.
Overheat: The oranges turn much redder, like Scorching Barrier.
Spontaneous Combustion: Explosions. Just... explosions. Like Explosive Firestorm.
Burning Anger: Adds some blues and whites, like Frenzied Firestorm.
Scorching Winds: A ring of fire effect akin to the Fang of Vog's charge attack (except more constant).
How each ult might change the Drakon's appearance...
Excessive Firepower: Adds spikes to the Drakon's tail.
Concussive Impact: Adds nose-spikes like Concussive Firebolt.
Meteoric Blast: Adds longer horns like Meteoric Firebolt.
Afterburner: Adds spikes to the back of its neck, like Backfire Barrier.
Dragon Armor: Adds spikes to its tail.
Overheat: Adds a beard, like Scorching Barrier.
Spontaneous Combustion: Wings, like Explosive Firestorm.
Burning Anger: Arms, like Frenzied Firestorm.
Scorching Winds: Adds a spike to the end of the Drakon's tail.
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If any of this interests you folks, I'll do this same sort of thing for Seraphynx and Maskeraith, too.

I like the concept, and I agree it takes far too long for sprites to get to the good stuff in regards to abilities, but I don't want my flame barrier to be boosting me places by default. All I want of my swirly fireballs of doom is just that, and the speed boost would just be harmful in any situation where I would like to make use of it.
I also still think you're underrestimating Drakon a lot, but I'll get back to you on that when I've maxed it. I'm having a grand old time with mine so far.
Can you clarify what you mean when you say that firestorm's autowin vortex only works on enemies that can be knocked back? Because vortex bombs also only works on enemies that can be knocked back.

The speed boost shouldn't cause you any problems once you get used to it, but I do admit it makes it harder to stick to enemies properly. However, I don't mean to give Flame Barrier Backfire Barrier's MSI at base; it should be quite a bit slower than that unless you take Afterburner, but not low enough to prevent it from having any base utility, I don't think.
As far as the raw-number tests I've done have shown, and from my experience using it with even the strongest of setups (yada yada "it needs a vortex to work properly" etc.) just doesn't feel powerful. Maybe it does improve my damage a bit, but it really doesn't feel like it.
I will say, however, that Explosive Firestorm comboes pretty well with a Maskeraith's quills, Vengeful or not. The individual fire ticks and the explosions themselves pop the quills almost right after they stick.
I'd like to hear what you have to say, since you always offer good points of discussion (and criticism).

I have a great problem with Angelic Aura. While yes, being invincible is nice, the fact, that it's single second ticks can backfire at times. Even with increased duration, I find it to be rather lackluster - getting into a crowd is easy, but getting out again...
Those might of course be just personal problems, but there is one thing, that really doesn't make sense; I read it in a thread somewhere, else it probably wouldn't have come to mind:
Seraphic Aura is no help to anyone. It is not just a lackluster ultimate, it's a stupid one.
1. Is the range enough to reach a surrounded party member? Doesn't reaching a surrounded player guarantee your Aura to break almost the same moment making shield regen "while under the aura" useless?
2. If your shield is broken it doesn't benefit from regeneration.
3. How do you know, you team mates need shield regen? They have no bar visible to you and as soon as they lower it, you can not even look for the colour.
4. If you CAN see that something happend with their shield, it's usually because it's broken.
5. Shield regen? Really? Most people run around with Swiftstrike because f*** shields.
And the most important one:
6. Regardless of the kind of shield, it takes two seconds without damage (to the shield) for a shield to start regenerating and two more to regenerate half its life. That means, your shield would be fully regenerated after the duration of a 0/0/3 Angelic Aura. (It finishes around the same time.)
What use is there to shield regen?
Of course the Aura takes damage as well, but even if it breaks prematurely, you should have regained at least a considerable amount of shield life.
I would have tackled the Aura skill in a completly different way: "Invincibilty" would be eveyone under the Aura being defended by his own shield without being slowed and still capable of attacking normally. It would break if the time ran out or if the shield lost all it's health. This way we would have a definite indicator to how much the Aura could withstand, protecting a group would not result in the immeadiate loss of it, shield regeneration would actually make sense, shields would actually be useful for a change and it would not be overpowered, as it doesn't give you immunity to damage as much as it gives you freedom of action while shielding. Afterwards your shield would have to regenerate normally, discouraging party abuse (activating it one after another) or making teamplay more viable with Seraphic Aura.

Oops, I completely forgot to reply to that last bit, Zeddy. :<
"Can you clarify what you mean when you say that firestorm's autowin vortex only works on enemies that can be knocked back? Because vortex bombs also only works on enemies that can be knocked back."
Vortex bombs' "knockback" is pretty massive and can affect enemies like Trojans, who are really resistant to being pushed around. Then look at something like a Volcanic Pepperbox- several small-strength instances of knockback. Since some enemies totally resist weaker KB, Pepperbox doesn't budge them an inch. The same ideas should apply to that revamped Firestorm.
I wouldn't really call it an "autowin vortex", because it should only affect certain enemies. Using "weak" knockback is a good way to do limit it quickly. I think making it push enemies on the edge into the middle of the Firestorm instead of pulling them radially would be a good thing, too.

great ideas on how to balance the sprites. it is true that currently they are too weak to be really used in T3. probably my favorite idea is the split cool downs. although, i would like to suggest that Violent Heart Attack be change, in that when the enemy dies, it spreads and enchants any surrounding enemy instead of giving a team boost. this way, the enchantment can spread more easily since each enchanted enemy will also spread to surrounding enemies. giving it a party buff would make it too similar to frenzied firestorm.

Interesting, Masterreeve. I like your idea more than mine.
Well, now that this is seeing the light of day again, I might as well keep going.
Over time, Zeddy has shown how Flame Barrier's defense boost works: it boosts your total armor by 70%. So, I'm now admitting that it isn't totally fundamentally flawed, and would like to revise the 3-ult design for it.
At base, the armor boosting is removed, replaced by the overshield mechanic.
Afterburner- gives a Backfire Barrier movespeed boost. Levelling it further will give you a smaller, longer-duration MSI boost, applied after the Backfire boost.
Dragon Armor- Gives you the old percent-based armor boost.
Overheat- No change from last time.
And my reasoning for these changes:
Base- Zeddy mentioned that giving it an MSI buff at base would make it more difficult to use the orbs offensively. Additionally, after looking back, I think that restricting the MSI boost to the Afterburner pick makes it worth picking in the first place. Concerning the armor changes, I wanted to make Dragon Armor more appealing while toning down how powerful the basic Flame Barrier could be.
Afterburner- The crazy MSI makes it difficult to make pinpoint movements and better for getting where you want to be. I changed it around a bit so that you can get where you need to be, then have an easier time dodging for a while, sacrificing offense or defense for a more skill-intensive approach. With these changes, it's now balanced against the other two more reasonably.
Dragon Armor- Now it's got more of an impact instead of being completely boring. Woo.
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Thoughts? Criticisms? Concerns? Death threats?

Well, of course, otherwise it'd be even worse than the first revision.
I have something to say.
I have recently maxed firebolt and crafted a supernova. with the right preparation, you can deal 226 (level 60,4*, charred court) on 4-5 zombies at once with firebolt. and it's not that you don't need preparation with ray of light and the quills. ray of light is a great defensive tool with the high knockdown it has, and quills deal most damage of all first skills, but ray of light can be used most effectivly on corridors and corners, and with the quills you need to be on short range because of the spread it has.
flame barrier is effectivly weak. even if you go straight for a bunch of zombies and you are dealing elemental damage, you can't deal evel 100 damage per hit, and always if you can hit the targets. it's not accurate at all.
firestorm is great for swarms of enemies, spreading damage upon most of them. except, you can't use it if enemies are immune to fire, or if enemies have high fire resistance. that's not a little if.
also, erm. comparing something to brandishes it's not good. brandishes are good all around weapons. too good at anything imo, and OP for many. like you said, you only need to aim to unleash the pain.