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Neutral sealed sword. (read the forum and you'll understand what neutral means)

30 replies [Last post]
Tue, 09/17/2013 - 11:21
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell

The avenger, and the Gran faust are really great weapons, they look awesome and feel awesome. One is divine, the other is pure darkness. But what about that warrior that is neither? The wielder who has no depiction of good or bad? What do they get? We'll I've been thinking about this and I think I've come up with a decent solution.

The solution
What if instead of a neutral blade it held a piercing blade instead? Holding both neutral and piercing damage. The blade would have the divine structure of piercing light along with a black blade causing the light part to deal piercing and the blade itself to deal normal damage. Its center of the blade shows a decal of spirals and a curse eye in the center. The light around the blade would be glowing white.

As the sword swings as its usual way the charge is only slightly different then the two sealed swords. Because its not exactly pure in dark or light energy it would have its 3 star charge attack but its range is larger but instead of just having the showy lights you'd see a X formation for 3 seconds. Anything that steps over that X will get inflicted with a striking status effect (at random) and an explosion will happen about 3x3 block radius explosion and any enemies within that area will get a random damage style taken to them. (It could be piercing, elemental, shadow, or neutral.) Normal would have a larger percentage of damage output but the rest are all around 16% common.

Lemmi know what you think about this.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 11:49
#1
The-Mighty-Potato's picture
The-Mighty-Potato

-1

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 12:00
#2
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Considering the main damage is piercing, a random charge that deals random damage is bad. It needs to do piercing.
What's the point if you're killing fiends and decides to do shadow or elemental?
Or rather, would anyone use a pierce weapon against a construct for a very small chance of doing elemental? No, they'll use a divine avenger instead.

Random status works with sealed, but no to random damage type.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 08:54
#3
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
@Juan

To be honest the reason I posted this is to expand the arsenal and style type, also you say that piercing is the main damage, I doubt it. True the arsenal at armor is piercing resistance in the beginning, this does not mean that its the prime attack type. That title belongs to normal damage, and elemental IF you would consider that second place. The piercing line is limited sword wise 4x from 3 stars onward to 5 stars (i.e flourish line)

The guns in this game are limited by 2 types, magnus and antigua even though antigua branches outward to elemental and shadow. Making piercing lesser then the majority which is elemental, with normal sitting beside it.

As for bombs there is only 2 bombs that are piercing dealing. So really when you think about it piercing lines are not exactly as fundamental as the other attack types. True the majority lockdown wise use flourishes this does not deter the majority that also use shadow.

Lastly the random damage would be weighed as normal with a 50 % probability and having the rest at 16% probability and this is directed at the charge of the weapon. If the gran faust carries a probability of carrying a curse status on charge instead of at random I'm pretty sure doing the same status and damage wise will be no concern as well.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 21:45
#4
Batabii's picture
Batabii

I would love it if they just made a straight upgrade to sealed sword that still has the same charge attack (maybe a little more AOE) and type. It could be fun.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 22:29
#5
Etharaes's picture
Etharaes
Logic break here

Last time I checked, the middle ground between good and bad is neutral. Atleast in this game, neutral =/= piercing. Neutral = normal. I am all in favour of a direct upgrade to the sealed sword line, but this aint it. I don't want no piercing abomination of a heavy sword with random damage in this game.

~Etha

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 08:57
#6
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
I dont see why you guys think

I dont see why you guys think the random damage part is done entirely with the sword in whole. The random damage is only done with the charge attack, just like the curse penalty on the faust is only created with the charge so would the random damage be as well.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 10:11
#7
Sereos
I'm sorry, I didn't read the

I'm sorry, I didn't read the whole thing, but if you want a neutral greatsword, try the Sudaruska/Triglav.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 16:16
#8
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
If you read a bit closer

If you read a bit closer you'll realize theres more to it then just being neutral. - .-"

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 21:14
#9
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

If you didn't want it to be neutral (normal dmg/no status), why did you call it neutral?

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 21:16
#10
Toeni-Sevan's picture
Toeni-Sevan
I agree on many, not on some.

I would like to see hybrid Normal/Pierce on a weapon, much like what some push the Flourish to be.

This sword is described as a balance, not exactly neutral, but just both both evil and good in the same weapon. If that was the case, it should be a shadow/elemental hybrid weapon.

"Piercing Light" is not a bad idea, I just don't agree with it being on a large weapon type. A paladin uses a short sword in most fiction.

I have ALWAYS wanted the Sealed Sword's charge attack make it's way up to 5*.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 23:53
#11
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
You do realize how broken the

You do realize how broken the sword would be if it were both elemental and shadow right? It wouldnt make any sense if someone wanted shadow, or elemental when they could get both...Making a piercing line would make more sense since it fits in perfectly with the sealed line.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 04:02
#12
Arilys's picture
Arilys
"Bye bye, Billy!"

"You do realize how broken the sword would be if it were both elemental and shadow right? It wouldnt make any sense if someone wanted shadow, or elemental when they could get both..."

It wouldn't be broken in a good way. It'd be a very specialized weapon, like the Antigua lines were before they got changed (AP line became pure elemental instead of elemental/piercing and Sentenza line became pure shadow instead of shadow/piercing). If this sword was elemental/shadow, then it would only do "crit" (orange) damage on Constructs and Jellies. Gremlins and Beasts would take weak (grey) damage because they resist the elemental damage; Fiends and Undeads, on the other hand, would take weak damage because they resist the shadow damage.

As for the piercing/normal version, I guess that could work. Maybe the aura of light around the blade could be spiky to represent the Piercing damage. But I can't help thinking that it would feel a bit odd to have a heavy sword dealing piercing damage. That's just my brain going derp though, I'd eventually get used to it :P The charge attack should be like the Sealed Sword's though, with status only or with normal and/or piercing damage. Like others have said, it'd feel pretty useless to have the charge explosion thing doing shadow damage to fiends or elemental damage to gremlins :s

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 07:41
#13
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
Normal/Piercing damage =

Normal/Piercing damage = Morning Star.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 07:51
#14
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

The random damage would work on a normal weapon. I'd see it as a chance of dealing a critical hit when the types match.

But since the weapon starts with some piercing, you're already limiting it's area.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 10:22
#15
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
@loljuan

Well thats neat to hear. Hey Juan whats limiting the idea? If you dont mind me asking?

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 11:39
#16
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright

deku, constructs are found in almost every level. those resist piercing. also jellies, but those are kind not of a problem.
fact is, if you want it to be neutral, it has to deal neutral damage to all, which makes it normal.
also, slow sword against fiends and beasts make no sense.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 11:44
#17
Arilys's picture
Arilys
"Gizmoooo!"

@Thunder

Actually, I use my Gran Faust on Beasts pretty often and it's really not that bad, surprisingly (given, I have a High ASI UV on it and use a Swifstrike Buckler, but still).

I do agree with the rest of of your post: for it to be truly neutral it would have to be a normal only weapon. I guess it'd end up like the Troika lines though, just with a different charge attack.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 13:09
#18
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright

any weapon with asi max relates to another scale of value. suda asi max on beasts anytime.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 14:09
#19
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
The derps are back.

If they make another normal damage sword I will flip my tables. The meaning of this post is not "Normal damage type" qualified. Its designed to implement a new heavy weapon that is relative to the sealed sword line. Each line divides itself into 2 categories: Shadow and normal, or elemental and normal. Having piercing and normal would not only make the set complete it would also show a sense of neutrality, neither good, nor bad. The reason why I called this forum neutral sealed sword is because its neutral to shadow and neutral to elemental. But having the sword sprout an ultimate neutral form would be stupid if it were just a reskin of a triglav with the same damage, and the same damage type, which is why I would prefer that it have a piercing additive as well since it makes sense that shadow can pierce through gremlins and elemental can pierce through constructs.

Secondly you bring out that " constructs are found in almost every level. those resist piercing." What about the gran faust? undead creatures resist a lot of shadow, and lets not forget that fiends are also resistant to shadow as well yet the majority of the 5* rank missions are undead and fiends. That didnt stop them from making the faust line. In the begining beasts and gremlins are in the mid way battle, and in the 4* missions and lets not forget OCH. That didnt stop them from making an avenger line. The clockworks change every week, so for you to tell me that is just stupid considering that these factors are in place as well.

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 14:31
#20
Arilys's picture
Arilys
"Bright light! Bright light!"

We get it, Deku. But most people will read the title and instantly think that neutral is referring to normal only instead of normal/piercing. Maybe change the title of the thread?

As for the fact that they made the Faust line even with a big chunk of the 5 star missions being mostly Undead themed, that's because SK didn't have the Missions until February of 2012. Before that, everyone did the Arcade only. Yes, most went for the gate that had Vanaduke, but they had to clear Stratum 5 before getting there so having a Shadow weapon to deal with Jellies or Gremlins came in handy :3 Same with Avenger line and OCH: OCH only came after the mission update, so people made the Divine Avenger to deal with FSC (Before the Brandish lines were changed to always have a set number of explosions; before that, the 5 star Brandishes varied between releasing 3, 4 or 5 explosions, I think).

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 17:19
#21
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
The title leads trolls.

To be honest the name of the title makes sense if you read the thread. It just agrivates me when someone assumes what something is just by the cover of the thread. Seems like that saying "dont judge a book by its cover" wasn't said to much by a decent amount of people on this forum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On another note I know you guys dont think having a random charge attack makes sense, when you think about it and I know I did, both Divine avenger and Gran faust hold not just shadow damage or elemental damage on their charge. They have normal damage output as well. Now remember when I said that normal damage will hold 50% on the charge attack? and the rest were....16? Yea 16% chance of variation. The way I see it this is how the charge should be balanced out:
Charge = Normal 75% output and a random variation of 15% else.

This includes additional normal damage, elemental, shadow, or piercing damage. This way the charge still does intense damage on all enemies but if at random you get a lucky shot of getting a bonus damage as well. But to tip the scales even better this is how I would expect the 4 (15% probabilities) to be leaned like so:
Normal = 1 - 2 chances of probability
Elemental = 1 - 5 chances of probability
Shadow = 1 - 5 chances of probability
Piercing = 1 - 3 chances of probability [since it is neither good nor bad it should be raised more since it is held inside the blade more often.]

And of course all the status effects should be equal.

Fri, 09/20/2013 - 08:24
#22
Toeni-Sevan's picture
Toeni-Sevan
Probability?

I think the mathematics that would be used to calculate the charge are very awkward. If normal is given a base value then Piercing should get the random draws from normal so that it equals the chance of Shadow and Elemental. It is also very unlikely that damage calculations can allow more than 2 damage types. Perhaps the charge could do multiple hits with different damages assigned to each hit.

25% is not a very large amount to get a bonus off of, and normal damage is mediocre at best, which means the bonus would not be great enough to pay off. Yet at the same time I can imagine if the randomized element damage was higher in percentage, it would be so much of a gamble that people would rely on more consistent damage from other weapons.

If such a thing were to exist, I would rather it have a set damage type and the charge of the Sealed Sword with larger area.

Fri, 09/20/2013 - 15:22
#23
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
Yes probability >:U

The reason why I set piercing to have a higher probability is because it already has piercing attack and normal attack. And as for having the chance to deal multiple damage output, they already have done this with the status effects. Look at the brandish line one in particular the glacius:

The glacius deals both elemental, and normal. Along with that the status effect deals normal damage if the enemy is left alone for a while (Usually 100 to 200 damage) Along with that the charge has to deal elemental damage and Normal damage with the chance of a status effect.

So the chances of placing a random probability with the constraints as so wouldnt be that hard of a deal considering its already been done.

Sat, 09/21/2013 - 18:25
#24
Yeyasonic's picture
Yeyasonic
+1

LOVE IT!!!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:48
#25
Waffleconecake's picture
Waffleconecake
/sigh

With how many repackages they are making now I wouldn't be surprised if they did make this.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:16
#26
Arkate's picture
Arkate
.

Piercing AND normal damage? That's specialized and generic damage. You are giving the sword a massive upperhand over the others. Because enemies who are weak to piercing will resist part of the damage, you get reduced damage, but then the normal damage still does its 100% damage. You call this weapon neutral, and it has piercing damage. It was one thing for the AP to be super specialized, but this is a whole different level.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 04:08
#27
Dagunner's picture
Dagunner
I'm neutral on the idea...

The base idea is good, (it also makes sense since you get it from a piercing boss) but the looks and charge isn't.

The charge could be 2 big swords shot diagonally (has ups and downs of the other lines)
The sword should keep its green colour.
Also what would they be called?

Also arkate do you even know what you're talking about? Apart from the sudraska/Triglav and the hammer, ALL swords deals normal and an additional type

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 07:41
#28
Sonosuke's picture
Sonosuke
@Arilys

I'm using Pokemon to argue about the elemental/shadow weapon. If you look at Mega Charizard X, it's a Fire/Dragon type, meaning it would be weak to fairy and ice types, right? No, because the Fire is resistant to both, leading to regular damage. Then the same should apply to attacking Gremlins and Undead with the sword, regular damage as if they were hit by a troika.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 07:53
#29
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Pokemon might use simplified mechanics where the resistance from one type are exactly equal as the weakness from the other.

This is spiral knights. An undead resistance to shadow damage is bigger than it's weakness to elemental. A shadow/elemental brandish-like weapon will do less damage than a calibur.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:34
#30
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
@#26

You sir are an idiot.

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Divine_Avenger
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gran_Faust
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Acheron
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Voltedge
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Combuster
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Glacius
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Faust
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Avenger
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Silent_Nightblade
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Boltbrand
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Blizzbrand
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Blazebrand

Same exact implament with a different specialty.

Know your game before you rage because it nerfs stupidity.

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