Yes, remove recipes from Hall of Heroes.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/89218

Until further details, we don't know what will happen to the arcade and basil.
Keep in mind this suggestion would be just a temporary fix.

HoH was the best thing since sliced bread, only beaten by free elevators.

You're proposing to force players to mindlessly run through levels without end to depend on a chance to get the recipe they need. That's just, disgusting.
I assume you weren't there when all a starter had was Proto Gear and Mist. Never did 20 tries and still no Dusker Coat Recipe, all that's left is paying 6k for the one on Auction House.

Missions aren't Rank locked. Equipment is. (Now that would be much better the other way round.)

All those 'reviving Arcade' subjects are tiring. Forcing people where they don't want to go is evil. You're only looking out for your own advantage, wanting everyone to do what you want regardless of whether they're having fun.
If some people CHOOSE to do FSC, let them have the endless zombies there roast and eat their brains, doesn't concern me. What does concern me is that I want to go where I like. And right now I'm actively evading Basil/Arcade because of the Recipes being too tempting for my drained pocket (bought Spikes and Bitter).

When I need one, like when I decided I want Dread Skelly Shield to fit my Armour and Hat, I go to Hall of Heroes and get the whole load. Your suggestion would put a break on me making stuff I want.
For nothing that benefits you, even if you in truth just want to make money selling Basil Recipes and are looking for a cheap excuse. (That's what this looks like to me, because there's not a single advantage to your suggestion, only taking away fun from people who don't want to play with you anyway.)

Here's a fact: It's faster to reach Basil to go in a solo, locked party, running past everything you can run past (optionally hitting boxes). So, your lame excuse will land you with random joiners down to D:11 that then go solo to reach Basil faster. Congratulations, you'd force people to grind without getting anything out of it.

I AM selling Recipes on Auction House. I make good profit with it usually (though today seems to be the day of 'Not sold' AH mails). I'd rather have Basil and Vatel disappear from the game than Hall of Heroes gone.

Oh, goodie. More Skolver clones. Just what this game needs.

Keep the HoH. The arcade already has danger rooms, graveyards, treasure vaults, boss recipes, variety (albeit minimal, thanks to the toxic blizzard), scenario rooms, and compounds. There are bunch of reasons to visit it, and if someone wants to endlessly farm missions and use the HoH and AH for recipes, then fine. Let them.

People who don't want to do something will resent being forced to do it. If people enjoy doing mission after mission after mission, why should you take that away from them? They aren't doing anything to hurt you're enjoyment if the game.

Toeni-Sevan, as you don't bother actually reading what you're replying to, I can't be bothered to type more than this.

You're proposing to force players to mindlessly run through levels without end to depend on a chance to get the recipe they need. That's just, disgusting.

He's not proposing anything of the sort. You can get 60% of the game's recipes from Basil without having to set foot in the clockworks. That's plenty, if people want the othe 40%, don't you think it would be logical that they actually have to play the game to unlock them? Random drops in generic RPGs are no different: you have to play the game's content for a chance at the weapon you really want, else you can buy a variety of stuff from the smithy at hometown.

When I need one, like when I decided I want Dread Skelly Shield to fit my Armour and Hat, I go to Hall of Heroes and get the whole load. Your suggestion would put a break on me making stuff I want.

Firstly, that's emphasizing my point.

Secondly, his suggestion is not putting a break on you making what you want. If you don't do arcade, and you don't do missions, then what do you do? And can you really expect everything be available to you if you play none of the game's actual content?

I wish people would stop bringing up these "get rid of HoH" topics. The only effect it has is recipe merchants will flood the game, and player progression will be slower. That's it.

If you want to make Basil more useful, drop the number of recipes available in HoH, but do not remove it in its entirety.

that ultimately creates this frustrating chase
This was the funniest bit of your suggestion. You're actually saying the hunting for Boss-Token recipes becomes frustrating. Exactly how will that change when you make EVERY recipe need that tedious chase.

-Like my other suggestion to make Emergency Revives also act as a way to open energy doors, this will revive the arcade even further, if you haven't seen the developer post on what's to come, the Arcade will (eventually, but keep it up guys) get recreated into something new. The added requirement to venture into the arcade will further help it's involvement in the lives of knights.
Why did you even add this? That's your other suggestion. Don't bloat one with a partially-related one. It doesn't help you.

Seriously, Toeni-Sevan, you wreck your credibility for understanding game design when you, quite openly, claim that if someone else disagrees with your opinion, they must be wrong. SK needs to appeal to the masses, not the few who want to spend hours upon hours doing the same stuff every day.

Oh, and although Mickmane did imply your actions are "evil", (s)he never actually "attacked you" in a direct sense. (S)He attacked your idea. If you find that offensive, you shouldn't have bothered posting.

He's not proposing anything of the sort.
Yes, he is. Without HoH, you will need to rely on Basil's randomisation to progress. Yes, Basil provides some at mission openings, but that's relatively limited if you're just starting out. You can't really use what Basil has available from missions from all of them as an argument for this suggestion.

Need a Dusker cap? Head into the arcade! Oh, it's your 15th time trying and you're out of sparks and crowns? I don't care, run again.

else you can buy a variety of stuff from the smithy at hometown.
Wouldn't this, in the SK world, be HoH? The Strangers selling equipment are pretty useless, with limited gear at overly expensive prices. Sure, HoH is a bit "too" useful, but it still doesn't need removal.

Secondly, his suggestion is not putting a break on you making what you want.
Again, his suggestion IS. If you need all 4 recipes (it's 4, right?), without HoH, you'll need to run Basil over and over and over and over, and at the end of each run, hope you get any of the 4 you need (wouldn't it suck if you got 3*-5*, but never 2). With HoH, it's a simple case of dropping in, buying 'em up, and getting to crafting. Then, you can play the game to upgrade that gear, and enjoy yourself; not be overly concerned with whether Basil will be nice to you or not.

Let's just look at who will benefit and who will lose out if we do this:
1* players: no real change, at that point you're getting al you need from missions.
2* players: will have a harder time obtaining the gear the need, but the AH and the fact that theres a relatively small amount of gear will mitigate the damage.
3*players: these poor saps are going to have a real bad day. Find T2 gear in T1 basil is very difficult, abductions the difficulty gap between the two tiers will make getting the T2 clockwork terminal difficult.
4* players: envious of the 3* guys. Assuming players don't quit after the 3* "yo dawg, we heard you like new gear, so we put some where you have no chance of getting it" issue, 4* players will have the same issue, only they're trying to grind in much harder tier, and attempting to search T3 will be almost suicidal.
5* players: Still struggling, but not as much as the last 2 groups.
Merchants: the only group to win out.

Conclusion: NO!

@Little-juances: given that point of this suggestion is to stop mission grinding, the fact that you can still obtain recipes from mission grinding without the HoH only makes this idea more pointless.

@Dust-Dragon: You're exactly correct. I'm glad to see that at least some people see why this is a bad idea.

The question is, why does this need to be done? Why remove an entire instance from the game? To force people to buy more from merchants? No.

Stop it. Stahp. It doesn't matter if you can "make do" without it. Hall of Heroes is good for the playerbase as a whole. Yes, it hurts some small minority who want to take advantage of other players, but what's the problem? Merchants are a plague on the game, and anything that undermines them is good for the health of the game.

People want to get rid of the HoH to try and drive more traffic to the arcade. Why they have an issue with other players deciding to enjoy the game differently/wanting to avoid the toxic blizzard, I don't know.

I'd also point out that merchants aren't a plague. Plagues have uses, like toppling feudalism and providing a useful setup for post-apocalyptic games, books, and movies.

Well, I think the hall of heroes is indeed a good thing. Mostly due to the fact that sometimes a recipe I want isn't being sold on the AH at the time, or is too much for me, so I usually compare prices and choose the cheaper of the two. But, in some aspects, the Hall of Heroes is really good. In some other aspects, it is really bad. Like when I can't get a recipe because both of the shops are too much. I'm sorry, I am not too great at this whole saving money concept. But, I think, instead of making the HoH not do anything except being a fancy place for fancy people, aside from Guild Hall at least, it should make all the guides for each play style available from each vendor, and a detailed video type, but not an embedded video, because those often cause a LOT of lag, that shows how to do each move/skill that is needed to become a master at each "class". For instance, the gunnery line would show you what types of guns that are available, as well as a demonstration as to how all of them work. Such as, the Magnus and Autogun line would be demonstrated in both weapon fire, and damage type, and then weighed out in pros and cons. Then, the Blaster and the Antigua would be shown, and then also weighed out in pros and cons. Then, the armor types and bonuses would be displayed, and told which armor bonus would suit each gun. Something like that. Of course, with SK, this is all just extra tid-bits on info, and you can go off and explore each weapon and it's possibilities on your own, if you don't want to sit through a collective 4 hour tutorial. That is an estimate by the way. I mean, the Hall of Heroes are to showcase BRAVE and ADVENTUROUS veterans who know their stuffs, so why not let them throw out the occasional tid-bit of useful info? You also should not have to pay for this. That would be wrong. Very wrong.

Proposal: The only knights in the HoH are the Cobalt, Skelly, Jelly, and Magic knights. They only sell their respective sets' standard upgrades (Azure,RJ,DS,Grey Feather)+shields and standard weapons (cobalt weps, nova,combuster,Stagger Storm,Acheron,Umbra)(no piercing weapons because they are all special). And basil would sell the rest. That way you can cover basically anything through the HoH, but if you want anything specialized you have to go through Basil or players.

How's that?

"Wait wait, since when did merchants become a bad thing? Back when we had 0 missions, there was no HoH, and no one complained."

Because no one really knew of the alternatives.

And Merchants have always been a plague on the game.

Well, the purpose of the video would be to show what happens when you do a technique properly, and what happens when not done properly.
Also, it'd probably be the test trial for the duration of being in the HoH. That way you can really get a feel for the type of weapon you are most comfortable with.

Also, are you yelling at me? I kinda feel like you are. I'm not saying you are, or that you're an angry person, but you just seem..Angry. At me. Which is sad.

I apologize for anything I may have done.

Well then program an NPC doing the technique properly, and then not done properly. Videos of games are silly when you have the game right infront of you (except in some cases like TF2 videos where they want to do that neat grainy effect, but that's already downloaded with the game)
Sorry...I'm not...I'm not yelling... I just ask questions that sound nasty and patronizing...
If you look at post 18, it's the same attitude. It's pretty much the remnants of some bad vindictive argument lure habits I used to have (I'm too much like my father. I never liked my father. He was a prick)
Don't worry, I don't spew acid at people I've only responded to once (or at least I don't think I do)
If someone has disagreed with me a third or fourth time, and my responses are starting to sound kind of irritated, yeah, chances are I am.
(that's not saying that anyone who disagrees with me make me angry, but when people get their debate, dip it in stupid, then still try to hand it to me that's when I start to tick)

Incorrect. By making arcade runs more mandatory, the market is flooded with more recipes, including boss recipes, lowering their prices.
Twisted Targe/Barb/Cone recipes (4,000 from Basil) were never 13k before the mission patch. There were always recipes available on Auction House for for only 115-125% of their Basil price.
I wasn't referring to its effects on the AH. I was referring directly to the "search" in question. I'm well aware of recipe price changes, but I'm focusing on the immediate available parts of the game. The recipe you want won't always be on the AH.

I can see what point you're trying to make, but it's somewhat a strange move. Exactly how is lobby hopping better than HoH, which centralises said recipes?

That was a really lame example. Plan of Attack is unlocked after beating The Sovereign Slime.
It was the first piece of equipment that popped into my head. Regardless, you do realise in order to get that lobby, you need full 3 star? So you need a 3 star helm, to be able to get the recipe for a 3 star helm. So, you'll basically have to craft twice.

Regarding Strangers, I was referring to the ones in Haven Bazaar (such as Quillion). I don't fancy paying 7.5k for a Brandish, or 35k for a Nightblade. They offer a good selection of starting gear, but outside of that, they're limited.

Are you feigning ignorance to try to push your point?
Are you ignoring a fact to make this idea seem better than it really is?
If you don't need to run Basil in the arcade, but instead just jump from mission lobby to mission lobby, how does removing HoH improve anything?
________________________

Well then program an NPC doing the technique properly, and then not done properly.
There's pros and cons of pre-rendering, and dynamic action. Just because the game is front of you doesn't mean pre-rendering is a disgusting, vile concept to be spit on with all haste. Actually, it can be quite good, as it avoids lag-related issues.

However, the file size of pre-rendered videos for such a small reason would likely be too high in order to avoid lag. There can also be video plugin issues. So, in this case, I'd say dynamic action would be a better choice.

I just added this to say your reasoning against pre-rendering is pretty bad. I agree it is bad, but not because of your reasoning... I think I'll just sleep now...