So I suggest that Final Flourish gets nerfed down to Fearless Rigadoon's damage and is given a medium fiend bonus.
We've established that fair chance of moderate status = medium family bonus
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:11
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:26
#2
The status alchemers have good chance of moderate status, so Nova/Umbra might need a high bonus or something.
The source of the conclusion is the Obsidian Carbine, which is like Sentenza, but with poison instead of medium bonus vs gremlins. According to some people, that makes them balanced, so I though we should extend this balance to the rest of the game.
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:30
#3
When you're this swag this world just bows at your knees
Now that I am done listing things I am sure to make people upset
Your suggestions are actually equally as decent and valid. +1.
may I have the source of this conclusion? I just want to read it myself.
He's referring to the Sprite Passive Abilities and their associated star rating. He did a thread earlier on how (I think it was) a Medium Family Damage Bonus was equivalent to a Low Weapon Damage Bonus. using similar logic.
EDIT: Nevermind, I was thinking about status resists on armor, not status infliction on weapons.
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:31
#4
.
Nova/Umbra are already balanced against their status variants IMO.
So what exactly are you suggesting in reality, that you think sentenza/AP should get a damage buff?
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:16
#5
duuba bupa bupa bow BWOW BOWWOWW
They really aren't Khamsin. Although alchmymers in general are not very balanced. I honestly think the Nova and Umbra should get a little damage reduction or we add a hit cap* to the pure versions of the split shots.
What if the shots did less damage per hit on the same enemy?
Also I'll be honest here, I don't really want these changes as yeah it would be interesting but then we would need to make a version of each current weapon that works on each family it is intended to fight. We would need a... Holy Sun Spark or something to be the anti devilite florish and I don't think we need that much specialization.
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:39
#6
@Khamsin
I was thinking having Obsidian Carbine utilize the damage values of Pepper and Plague. People would rightly note that the damage level would make it a useless piece of trash compared to Sentenza, which would hopefully end up in a plague/blitz rebalancing.
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:45
#7
@Zeddy
Plz no. I want my obsidian carbine to be useful. Plague/blitz balance is awful, but the solution isn't to make obsidian carbine owners miserable until 000 decides to balance.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 08:39
#8
Meanwhile,
Nick:
'Due to reports that Acheron is insanely and utterly overpowered (I don't know why, it should be able to do far more damage to beasts/constructs then anything else despite it being shadow), we've decided to adjust it's damage to what it was before, and give it a Medium Slime bonus!'
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 08:41
#9
.
Can someone explain this whole "Acheron hits harder on Beasts than an FF" thing to me? Because it seems blatantly untrue. Almost as hard, sure, but not harder.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 09:04
#10
gods ain't gonna help you, son.
khamsin, look at the wiki. acheron 1st swing on normal targets deals 2 less damage than FF/BTB final strike on effective targets.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 09:22
#11
@Thunder
I've seen the wiki, I've used both weapons.
Dealing less damage =/= dealing more damage.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 09:46
#12
gods ain't gonna help you, son.
kham, 1st swing of acheron deals more than 1st swing for FF. same for final strikes. I see damages from the wiki. with bonuses is even worse cause acheron has split damage.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:30
#13
.
Acheron: 241 - 234
Final Flourish: 258 - 285
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 10:28
#14
gods ain't gonna help you, son.
seems all those tables got me confused.
still, a 9 damage difference is little, I don't think it's balanced with the speeds.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 14:53
#15
@Khamsin
Where are you getting your numbers from?
Max damage Final Flourish vs effective: 271/331/471
Max damage Acheron vs neutral: 372/482/739
Pretty sure Acheron is way ahead here? It's not even a contest.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:30
#16
@Zeddy
Edit: Nevermind, I see what's going on.
I was using base value damage, you're using max damage.
Yes, at max damage it passes it in certain depths if you have absolute max damage as of the most recent patch.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:33
#17
@Khamsin
Acheron != Brandish
Read the numbers for Gran Faust.
Edit: Oh editing posts, are we? Brandish passes FF by already at medium bonus, quite possibly low. I think we both know how popular playing without any damage bonus whatsoever is.
Also, so what if it was just close? Acheon neutral is close to effective Flourish! Think that even remotely applies the other way around?
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:33
#18
@Zeddy
For speed-running?
That's how I play. I don't run dailies in my top damage gear, I run it with mercurial demo and ASI.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:40
#19
Also, I want to say, first
Also, I want to say, first off I think that acheron is OP, but you're not taking into account the wide arc and faster attack speed of the flourish. Flourish still has its uses.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:41
#20
What, you don't have Black
What, you don't have Black Kat?
I just tested depth 1. Medium bonus Gran Faust and Flourish both did 48 on a beast bag. What was that about certain depths?
That tiny edge non-bonus Flourish has over Acheron is also exclsuively for the first hit. For the third hit and charge, Acheron trounces Flourish right out of the box for any depth you care to name.
Wed, 10/30/2013 - 16:43
#21
@Zeddy
What, you don't have Black Kat?
Nope : /
and barbarous thorn blade gets vs beasts.
and nova driver gets vs undead.
and umbra driver gets vs slimes.
Now that I am done listing things I am sure to make people upset, Zeddy, may I have the source of this conclusion? I just want to read it myself.