Spiral Knights - Stop making temporary events after you put so much work into the content in them... and instead...

Stop making temporary events after you put so much work into the content in them... and instead...

62 replies [Last post]

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 18:28

Draycos

...give some sort of "bonus" related to the content when it's first released.

By temporary events, I mean the Katastrophe and Shroud of Apocrea.

Worth noting is the "Dangerous Times" event, in which the danger missions were available every day.

For instance, in the Katastrophe event, if it was developed as I'm suggesting, might have some sort of "promotional bonus" in the first weeks of its release:
-A discount in the Supply Depot for Shadow defenses and Elemental weapons.
-The Black Kat prestige missions.
-Moorcroft Boxes contain pages as a bonus.
-Boosted payout for levels with Kats in them (well, Candlestick needs a *permanent* boost, but that's another story).

And then for Shroud of Apocrea...
-A discount for the preceding items in the Obsidian weapon lines.
-Obsidian Boxes contain Sigils.
-The Apocrea prestige mission.

Then, after each "promotional event" was concluded...

Kataclysm: Black Kats stay. The prestige missions related to them don't. Payouts and discounts are reverted to normal.

Apocrea: The prestige mission disappears, but the Grasping Plateau is added to "random" depths.

If you do this, there's still an event and you aren't throwing content into the gutter for months on end.

How about it?

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 20:03

Navarchus

I have to agree that it's

I have to agree that it's really wasteful, but I can imagine a lot of people not liking that you can get their beloved event items any day of the year.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 20:15

Zeddy

I think this would be cool.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 20:42

Draycos

"Oh, no, people get to enjoy the content and get the exclusive, unique gear I did! What a tragedy!"

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:44

Midnight-Dj

Like I said in some of my debates I had with you before Draycos. Some people just wanted to feel special, sure, you wanted the game to be fair, but OOO needs to treat the hardcore player base a bit better.

Imagine, after grinding shroud of Apocrea and kataclysm, gotten all the obsidian gears. And suddenly, ding ding ding, all of those kat hats and obsidian weapons are now on sale in supply depot, THANKS ALOT KOZMA, why did I grind all those time for these stuff when I can just buy them in the supply depot with all these money I stocked up?

The moral of the story is, you can't mistreat parts of the fan base. Making these stuff daily avilable runs the risk of enraging parts of the hardcore players.

"Oh plz, I have been around here for 2 years, I have put up with all the stunts OOO has pulled off, I am a bigger man!" -Draycos

Sure, you might be a big man, but not for the rest of the SK community, crap like general-gio, some other trolls on the forum scared me. And also, how am I supposed to get prepared for grasping plateau? If I am equiped with ele or piercing gears for the previous, I will get my butt chewed up in grasping plateau by scarabs. And what about the wrong gears?

Well, I have to adimit that black kat random spawn is cool, but god are they nasty when you are just soloing a candel stick keep. And the fact that you can farm black kats infinite amount of time will piss off the harcore player base, those who may already gotten all the kat hats by paying high price for fetishes during the first release of the kataclysm. They are meant to be collector's item, not just another dread skelly helm.

moral of the stroy: making these events daily reduces the event items' value. so -1

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 23:50

Draycos

Every time..

"they're now on sale in the supply depot"
Never once did I say they would be. If you mean the boxes, I heavily implied they might be tied to the "promotional bonus", then never return.

"I've been around for 2 years, I'm the bigger man! I put up with all the other scrap thrown at me." No, more like: 'I've been around for 2 years, so I think I know what I'm talking about'.

"they are meant to be collector's item"
That just so happen to be heavily game-influencing. There is no other gear that gives stats like the Kat Cowls, especially the BKC. Obsidian Crusher is a Shadow Vortex that's worth using, despite the flinging. Obsidian Carbine is better than Sentenza. Poison as a whole is an under-represented status.

"making these events permanent reduces the items' value, so -1". Do you understand what you're implying?

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 23:54

Cmeresweetheart

Then...

What's is the real point of an event?

I mean if it stay forever, it's a feature not an event, but i do agree that making an event to never see again, is wasteful, they need to re-use the old events.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 01:02

Aplauses

It is called an "event" for a reason ..

But I do agree some of your point.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 02:52

Midnight-Dj

"they are meant to be collector's item" That just so happen to be heavily game-influencing. There is no other gear that gives stats like the Kat Cowls, especially the BKC. "-Draycos

*Cough* Chaos set... *cough* *cough*

'"making these events permanent reduces the items' value, so -1". Do you understand what you're implying?'-Draycos

yes, imagine if everything from SL are sold in the supply depot, what would be the value of a snarby set then(knowing that a P2P player can get it without even getting anywhere near SL)? And also like the ppl above me have said... it wouldn't be an event if it happens everyday. So making them permanent not only reduce the value of the promo gears, it also reduces the value of the event ifself. There would no sense of urgency, you can always do it tomorrow.

Final message: fine, the extra goodies in the box is good and all, I still won't buy it though... 26 K CE and for what? Some pages that I could have just done the black kat mission? No thanx, moorcraft furnitures, as if they are remotely useful. (BUT THE CURIOUS MEWKATS ARE SOOOOO CUTTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEE, I wanna blow them up with my TROLLARIS >:) ). But as for the post event stuff.. still -1

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:13

Klipik-Forum

+1, but additions:

-decrease the BK spawn rate even further during non-event times
-make the events/promos/prestige missions still reoccur.
-Instead of Grasping Plateau sometimes appearing in the Clockworks, have a party button trap chunk/tile that spawns with a .0001% chance in place of a normal party button and takes you to the obelisk level and a grasping plateau, before spitting you back out exactly where you went in. Much more fun >:D

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:35

#10

Draycos

@Cmeresweetheart I'll be honest. There won't be any point. That's the reason why I'm making this thread anyway, because this game is seriously lacking in updates; making temporary content when it needs permanent content is silly.

@Aplauses Yes, well, it won't be that kind of event.

@Midnight-Dj If you're going to selectively filter out what you read, I refuse to dignify your posts with a response. Last time was at least somewhat productive. This isn't.

@Klipik
"-decrease the BK spawn rate even further during non-event times"
Oh man, they were annoying to hunt enough already... I dunno about that. Maybe increase the spawn rate during event-time?

"-make the events/promos/prestige missions still reoccur."
Would be nice, since that's what happens already! Sorry if I implied that'd be gone. I didn't intend to.

"-Instead of Grasping Plateau sometimes appearing in the Clockworks, have a party button trap chunk/tile that spawns with a .0001% chance in place of a normal party button and takes you to the obelisk level and a grasping plateau, before spitting you back out exactly where you went in. Much more fun >:D"

That would be interesting, but adding them to the random depths gives them a lot more presence and allows people to target specific levels instead of just hoping they get "lucky". Plus, it gives more life to the Arcade!

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:47

#11

Klipik-Forum

"Oh man, they were annoying to hunt enough already"

Clearly you never ran with a full party with full Mercurial, Swift Steps II, Deadly Shadow Cloak, Swiftstrike Buckler, AP, and WRH speedrunning Candlesticks enough to the point where we could tell a treasure room from the first 10 feet on the minimap and skip it. If you get to that point, the farm goes a lot faster :)

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 11:06

#12

Draycos

I did. I did that for over 500 pages. It was awful.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 11:09

#13

Bitsbee

What about for a Klondike Bar?

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 13:23

#14

Midnight-Dj

"@Midnight-Dj If you're going to selectively filter out what you read, I refuse to dignify your posts with a response. Last time was at least somewhat productive. This isn't." -Draycos (oh BTW, that is your full quote, I didn't filter out anything)

And yet you filtered out what you read on my first post and didn't read all of it, hey, if you filter read my post, why can't I do the same to yours?

I have discussed the issues of fan base before, like the previous RNG crap we had. You can't mistreat a part of the fan base, you will please one group of people and pisses off the rest. Sure the short term benefit of black kat stay is good, but what about the long run? And also Obsidian weapons are not essential part of the game, there are stuff like bio hazzard, maskeraith's quill and Archeron's buff that make up for it. Obsidian carbine is better than sentenza, by how much?

ps. I am done, stuff this, it seems like no matter what I do, you just think you are always right. No, you are not, and being a two year veteran doesn't make you any superior to the rest of us. You are no king, nor a wiseman, just another person sitting behind a computer. And suffice to say, after two threads without responds from any GMs or GDs, I think you already know where this thread is heading towards.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 14:23

#15

Draycos

"that is your full quote" Yes it is.

"you filtered out what you read on my first post and didn't read all of it" Nope. I had no comment on "hardcore players" nor the hypothesized troubles with the random spawns. But I'll bite. "Hardcore players" are players who happened to be active at a limited-time event and happened to have the time to grind for it. A similar situation plagues Warframe; some event-tied weapons are clearly better than any other weapon of their type, giving people a huge lead over everyone else just because they happened to be able to participate in it. As for Black Kats and Shroud of Apocrea being troublesome, there is always the option to run. Scarabs don't spawn if you don't break the totems. There are very few spots in Candlestick where a Black Kat is completely, utterly unavoidable- and fewer where they can't be kited away. I'd think it'd be a good way to balance it against multiplayer Candlestick, which is actually much harder than solo Candlestick because of the increased number of Grimalkins.

"If you didn't reply out of scorn, why can't I?" Because you're basing part of your posts around things I have talked about. There's a difference between refraining from arguing about something and refusing to acknowledge information. "This stuff won't be in the Supply Depot." "Why would you put this stuff in the Supply Depot?!" "It won't be." "Why would you put this stuff in the Supply Depot?!"

"Obsidian weapons aren't essential to the game." What is essential to the game? Where do you draw the line? Wherever's most convenient for the exclusive 8% of the playerbase?

"Other poison weapons make up for it." No they don't. Biohazard isn't an Antigua. Acheron isn't a Shadow/Poison sword, and it's blatantly OP. Maskeraith's quills are an ability on a cooldown system. Carbine is a direct upgrade to Sentenza; it has the same damage with a damage multiplier status stacked on that prevents enemies from healing while cutting their damage, at the cost of a gremlin EDIT: medium bonus. Carbine is better, above and beyond Sentenza, especially against Gremlins, who have the most obnoxious healing enemies.

"I am done, it seems that whatever I do, you think you're right". I do think I'm right. Maybe because I have more to base my ideas on.

"No you aren't!" Prove it, and by that I mean ditch the "but it'll make 8% of the playerbase angry" excuses. Yes. Excuses. This isn't even a crown sink system, this is full-blown content I'm talking about here.

"Just because you're a veteran doesn't mean you're superior". "No, more like: 'I've been around for 2 years, so I think I know what I'm talking about'."

"You're just another person sitting by a computer." And that matters how? What does it matter who or what I am if my ideas are solid?

"After two threads without responses, you know where this thread is going." I'm bored. This happens to be a fun way to kill the time while giving the illusion of being halfway productive. Two and two together.

So, just for the heck of it, let's say every single boss or gear expansion was tied to a temporary event, and they rarely reappeared, maybe once in seven months. New players only get the standard gear and the standard levels, just because they weren't around at the time. Do you really think that'd be fair? I'd even say it's hypocritical.

And for the record, Chaos and the kat cowls are quite different. I don't know why you think they aren't.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 13:57

#16

Zeddy

Gremlin medium bonus, actually.

...yeah.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 13:58

#17

Draycos

/e spontaneously combusts.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 15:02

#18

Midnight-Dj

Well, both chaos and BKC gives you a butt tonnes of damage buff. The only difference is that BKC has freeze resist and MSI while chaos has VH CTR. They are both designed to be the glass connon option. The only time when BKC gets an edge over chaos is in freeze shadow level and nowhere else.

' New players only get the standard gear and the standard levels, just because they weren't around at the time.'-Draycos

:| why would I need the kat hats and the obsidian gears when standard gears get the job done? I have gotten the obsidian crusher and it is okay for a vortex bomb. But with the radiant drought the bomb hardly make up for the effort I put in to make it. I almost wished I kept it at its 4* form so I still get the CTR med on the bomb. These promo gears have unique stats but they are not as game breaking as you think. A smart player will find a way to bypass that. And besides, valkyriemail kicks butt in the kat mission(except for one of them) and it performs well in fiend and undead levels (without fire that is). Everyone screams across the street and yell at BKC's OPness, valkyrie armor has fiend VH and nobody seem gave a damn. (I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 15:52

#19

Draycos

I wasn't aware that CTR and MSI were minor differences, nor that there was only one Kat Cowl.

I never said they were *gamebreaking*, I said they were exclusive *improvements*. Strong Poison is really strong. Even Medium is. It's enough of a difference.

"A smart player can bypass it". It's still exclusive gear locked away nigh-forever. It's like saying that Warframe's Strun Wraith is better in every way compared to the Strun, but it's okay because you can still use a Strun. No, it doesn't work that way. You're gimped just because you happened to join late.

Gear with unique stats is also extremely important in a game that revolves entirely around different gear leading to different styles of play.

Valkyrie has a huge weakness to Fire, and is focused on a specific enemy type. You can use all 3 weapon types against 1/6 of the enemy families to use its bonus. Compare it to the class-based gear, which is a generally accepted baseline for balancing suggestions. They have no status weaknesses (excluding niche variants) and allow you to use their boosts against every enemy with 1/3 of the weapon types.

1/6 * 3 = 1/2.
6 * 1/3 = 2.

That's a rough way to show it, assuming that you're using the most basic of strategies, as opposed to using certain weapons for offense and others for utility. Realistically, the gap in usefulness is even wider.

"(I don't want to live on this planet anymore)" Fine with me.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:08

#20

Zeddy

Also consider Vanaduke, Creep Cakes, Punkin and Lockdown. Let's call them, collectively, a 7th family.

1/7 x 3 = 3/7 < 1/2

7 x 1/3 = 7/3 > 2

And let's look at Black Kat and Chaos. Those work with every weapon against every family.

7 x 3 = 21

(There's a mathematical fallacy in place here, but the results aren't, broadly-speaking, wrong.)

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:17

#21

Fehzor

I haven't read most of the thread, but I want to be angry, quote someone, and use chaos/black kat cowl to back myself up anyway.

So Zeddy is wrong when he said "mathematically fallacy in place here, but the" because of something being a direct upgrade. If it weren't this way, we wouldn't have items like chaos because of black kat cowl. Unsure if I am doing forums correctly. Oh, and I agree with the OP. It'd be awesome if we could add actual content to the game AND use it as an event.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:28

#22

Midnight-Dj

But you have to remember that the class gear (or performance enhancing gear i my words). Have only one set of normal and one set of special defense. That means, if you are like me, I won't bring a snarby set to a wolver den.

skolver->bring to slime/beast level
snarby->bring to undead/fiend level
vog->bring to construct/gremlin level
(I know, you don't care, you will bring snarby coat to a wolverden anyway, coz you are pro. But that doesn't ally to everyone. And no, not 8% players in this game wears the correct gears to the levels.)

So that technical means the performance enhancing gears only cover two of the enemy races and increase damage of one type of weaon to the two races. Where as scenario armors (niche armor) cover two of the enemy races and all three types weapon. I give some credit to LD for making the class gears more worthwhile getting, but it is only the niche armors offer double special defense (dragon scale set for C42, divine set for GitM). So the gap is not as wide as you think.

"(I don't want to live on this planet anymore)" Fine with me.-Draycos
Whoa, what is with the hate? If you do want me to leave, buy me a rocket to Mars and I will be on my way :3

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:49

#23

Draycos

That's not helping your case. Valkyrie has the same defense design.

"Two of the enemy races and all three weapon types."
I wasn't aware that Valkyrie had an Undead bonus, that Dragon Scale had a gremlin bonus, that Divine had construct and undead bonuses on both pieces.

Let's play by your rules and tinker with the math some more, using offense AND defense.

Let's say that class gear only gets points for 1/3 of the enemies and for 1/2 of the weapons, which is more realistic. The score becomes 1/3 *6 = 2 and 1/2 * 3 = 1.5, adding up to 3.5. Then let's take the specialized gear again, and give it 1/3 *6 = 2 defense and 1/6 * 3 = 2.5 defense.

The score is 3.5 to 2.5, even still. The gap is as wide as I think when it comes to offense, and is still wide when factored in with defense.

"What's with the hate?" Just replying to your own "comments".

Just for kicks, let's do Dragon Scale and Divine.

Defense:
-Normal/Special gear is at least half effective against every enemy type; 1/2 * 6 = 3, 1/3 * 6 = 2. 2+3 = 5.
-Special/Special gear is half effective against 4/6 of all enemy types. 4/6 * 6 = 4, /2 = 2.

Offense:
-Class gear is at effective against all 6 enemy types with only 1/3 of the weapons, but you don't have to use all weapon types for damage alone. 6/2 = 3.
-Family-specific gear is effective against 1/6 of all enemies with all 3 weapons. 1/6 * 3 = 1/2.

5 to 2.
3 to 1/2.

Clearly, there's a gap in utility.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:48

#24

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

@Fehzor

Shadow Lairs and Super Guild Halls.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:57

#25

Zeddy

I wasn't aware that Valkyrie gave undead bonus.

Edit: Oh, Draycos Ninjaed me to it.

Also, which would you rather bring to a fiend/fire level or an undead/fire level: Valkyrie, Snarbolax or Vog?

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 17:06

#26

Draycos

Giant winged alligators can be stealthy, too, y'know.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 17:49

#27

Klipik-Forum

context!

This idea is basically what OOO does with, like, most of the new non-content they introduce anyway. Remember the Guardian's Armor Pack launch? Launch sale, then it went up to normal price and now it comes down on sale again occasionally. Do that... just with content.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 18:37

#28

Draycos

Ding ding ding.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 19:14

#29

Sirius-Voltbreaker

But what would be so special about the new weapons and black kat crap if everyone can get it?

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 19:28

#30

Midnight-Dj

Valkyire has shadow defense, so it offers defense against two types of enemies(hence the 2 races). And yes, in addition to that it kicks fiend's butt extra hard. So yes, that is two bonus, on the top of that, if you use FF and blitz, there is a likely hood of you switch between them. I am not a hell bent swordy or a gunslinger, I am a hybrid fighter. So valkyrie in my situation is more convinient ( And of course the valk set looks FABULOUS~~~~!-Bechamel)

Valkyie offers:
Undead defense+1
fiend dfense+1
gun bonus vs fiend+0.5
sword bonus vs fiend+0.5
bomb bonus vs fiend+0.5
Weak against fire (here I persume that the chance of rolling a fire themed infernal passage/ fire themed haunted passage/devilish dreggery:everybody is fired/candlestick keep:burning black out is the same amongst the other 4 theme level) -(0.2+0.2+0.2+0.2)= -0.8
resistant against poison (the same rules apply like above) +0.8
Graveyard's phantoms+black kat slaying:+0.1

Overall score:3.6

Snarby coat offers shadow defense, so it offers defense against 2 types of enemies just like the valk set. In addition to that, it has VH sword damage and persuming that you only use FF, BTB, brandishes and DA against the fiend/undead (archeron, u seerus?)

Snarby set offers:
Undead defense+1
fiend dfense+1
sword bonus vs fiend/undead +1 (Here I persume that you don't bring the snarby set to a non undead/fiend levels, and also phantoms and black kat are included since they are undead)
Resistant against freeze: +0.7 (you do realize that snarby doesn't have max status resist right? (-0.1))
Resistant against poison: +0.7

Overall score: 4.4

So no, the difference is not that great (4.4-3.6=0.8). I hope that cleared things up abit. Sure valkyrie set might be inferior in those aspect, but as for fire shadow resist, I can pimp out my divine veil+armor of the fallen combo. This combo offers me max fire resist as well as shadow defense. I am sure no class armors can do that(no, UV doesn't count).

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 19:37

#31

Sirius-Voltbreaker

And midight...

Yes about 8% brings wrong armor to levels. Quite frankly any defense that isn't freeze,fire or shock is useless. No one gives a damn(is damn banned?)
And also the reason people don't get valkryie is because, they are a boy, or they prefer chaos or divine armor bonuses instead.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 20:10

#32

Midnight-Dj

@Sirius
So getting poisoned in C42, taking extra damage/can't be healed/debuffed, been stunned by a trolljan for 4seconds and having your weapons and item slots locked out for 40 seconds is completely okay to you? Fine, your call.

AND SINCE WHEN BOYS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WEAR DRESS? I am a guy and I liked the valkyrie armor's design, it makes my knight look pretty and standout (all knights are probably unisex anyway), but strangely enough, I always thought of 'Midnight-Dj' as a guy. He is like the Hideyoshi of spiral knight, who is a dude, wears girl's clothes. Damn, I went off topic again :\

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 20:56

#33

Masterreeve

Ha, i was ready the arguments between Midnight and Draycos for so long that i almost forgot what the post was about. (btw, i agree with Draycos on almost everything that was said.) This is a good idea that should have been pt in place a long time ago. if this was how the game had always been, then Midnight wouldn't have anything to argue about, since all the gear wouldn't be event only and wouldn't be owned by only a small number of the player base. The events would just make getting this gear easier is all.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:05

#34

Midnight-Dj

" Ha, i was ready the arguments between Midnight and Draycos for so long that i almost forgot what the post was about. (btw, i agree with Draycos on almost everything that was said.) "-Masterreeve

*bows* well, every batman needs his joker... I like argueing lol, but still I just wanna express my opinion as well as some other minorities.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 08:22

#35

Draycos

"Every Batman needs his Joker..."
It's true that 100% side A and 100% side B situations aren't exactly productive, but the key thing is that each side has weight behind their arguments.

"Wall of math"
Your calculations are screwed up because you're taking one set and comparing it to another, while that set is in its best position. You openly admit it when you say "Here I persume that you don't bring the snarby set to a non undead/fiend levels".

Regardless, there is a notable gap in utility. Snarbolax being better than Valkyrie even when it's in its best conditions is saddening. The gap is massive when compared to double-special gear, which is only good in its specific set of levels.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 00:40

#36

Orbwanter

The purpose of rotating limited-time gameplay events is to create interest spikes. Being able to shoot out a "Black Kats are back!" newsletter will draw a lot more attention and returning players than "sale on some stuff in the supply depot" will.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:07

#37

Draycos

If a game has to rely on that in order to succeed, then it's gotten boring or lost its regular appeal.

Keeping the events' content year-round will help with that.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:52

#38

Mushy-Bucket

...

Stop calling them "events." If your insane dream became reality they'd be "content." An event is something that comes and goes, like a county fair.
Additionally, removing events (and making them year-round) or making it easier to get the stuff defeats the purpose. It would be up there with removing Lockdown in the negative effect on the game. Events are a source of money to OOO and keep things interesting. The game would not do well without them... plus, they let people say "Yeah, I was there, check out this neat thing you can get when it rolls around again..."

I'm a firm believer the game needs more permanent content like levels, not more weapons (at least right now), but the events are events.
Personally it sounds like you missed one and are irritated you didn't get something from it - There's no logic in the suggestion if you understand the game's economy at all.

Basically, as someone already said, then there'd be nothing special about the stuff. It's a kind of thing to show to your friends and make some conversation about, like how you can't get certain achievements anymore. It's a "I was there."

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:25

#39

Klipik-Forum

Basically he's suggesting to make more new content instead of events, but make a launch event for the new content. Not necessarily to change existing events. (although, how much of a market is there really for Kat stuff and Obsidian stuff? Given the limited amounts of it I would wager a guess this wouldn't affect many people other than hoarders.)

"For instance, in the Katastrophe event, if it was developed as I'm suggesting..."

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:09

#40

Mushy-Bucket

Um.

So.... make the gunner update into an event then into standard content?
rofl
I won't even start with all the problems with that update itself.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:26

#41

Draycos

I've been here since just after the game launched; I've seen every event, so no, this isn't because I missed anything. My "insane dream" is to make all the exclusive content (i could care less about the accessories and costumes) available to everyone, not having it shelved for God knows how long.

"They keep the game interesting." They do, but with the current model, it's giving out content then taking it away. You shouldn't have to wait and look for specific times to enjoy new content. Who knows when Apocrea will come back. Make sense?

"There wouldn't be anything special about the stuff." So keeping levels, graphic assets, and items completely out of reach from anyone who just happened to miss an event is a good way to make things "special"?

Assuming all the event-bound content was made available constantly,

-Kataclysm would be "special" in the sense that it means you're dedicated to the grind (or lucky as heck)
-Apocrea would be "special" in the sense that you have a very good grasp on how to work in a group, or that you have a lot of dodging skill.

Reminds me of Shadow Lairs, which are locked out for all but the endgame players, which need gear, coordination, and general skill/a mountain of Sparks. The gear you get from those are special because they require you to do abnormal things in order to get them, as opposed to punching Vanaduke in the face fifty million times until you have enough crowns to buy that next piece of gear.

Also, regarding the "new" guns in the Gunner Update, there could definitely be a "launch event" to go with it, as crazy as that sounds. A discount on all sorts of Gunner gear, or perhaps some sort of temporary bonus for using guns to clear levels.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:10

#42

Mushy-Bucket

...

Well, I can go ahead and say that I have not played since launch, and frankly don't care that I don't have the groundbreaker set or something like that from a 1-time event. Everyone should be able to handle that. Plus, (said it a million times) you can say you were there.
While you're at something like this, you may as well push for the "impossible to obtain" achievements to be removed - like the miner ones or the revive a downed party member with health.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:36

#43

Draycos

Right. You shouldn't care too much except to say "oh hey that guy was from the beta" when you see someone with it, because all it is is a costume.

Meanwhile, the kat hoods (especially the BKC) and the Obsidian weapons have a clear, distinctive impact on the gameplay itself. That stuff. Yeah.

I have participated in those threads, yep. That irks me a little bit, but not nearly as much, since it's in the same vein as cosmetics.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:06

#44

Midnight-Dj

"Meanwhile, the kat hoods (especially the BKC) and the Obsidian weapons have a clear, distinctive impact on the gameplay itself. That stuff. Yeah."-Draycos

Wait, what? Let me get this straight, that was the reason? Coz these weapons are unique thus every one in the game should have the equal opportunity to get them? Man, this is just like the RNG crap we had... Been unfair is been fair. Some features of this game are meant to be exploited, as well as some period of the game. These features(events) are meant to be taken advantage of, if someone missed it, boo hoo, there is always next year, I missed this year's black kat and didn't play much on the previuos one (only got 33 pages). I didn't cry over it, seriously, with all the stuff I got, the only thing that seems intresting is the obsidian crusher (which I made, did it impact my play? No.). The edge and the carbine is meaningless since I already have archeron and sentenza. Suffice to say, I can compeltely live without those event stuff (but a kat hat would be nice, need some shadow freeze protection...) Just like anyone else who happen to miss these events. (and also, making black kat grinndy doesn't stop people from going back to FSC, balance FSC and arcade first before balancing this.)

Now let's imagine a game that is totally and utterly fair, everyone can only craft azure guardian set, and every monsters in the game can only deal normal damage (no status, coz that in theory statues are unbalanced). You wonder through clockwork killing the same stuff over and over, doing the same tatics over and over again. If that was the way SK was played, the game won't even survive beta.

Ps. if there is such a huge utility gap between the scenario armor and performance enhancing armor, then why didn't you make a thread about that and try to balance them >:\ ? Seriously, balancing those would be heck alot better than trying to balance an unbalancible system.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:43

#45

Draycos

You just admitted the problems with your own argument, then showed me you've been paying little attention to the contents of the thread.

I'm done.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 19:53

#46

Midnight-Dj

-.-

Okay, if you got nothing more to say, then plz graveyard this junk.

I got bit tired of talking too, and also, what is wrong with exploits? They are what makes a MMO, enemies have way to deal damage and punish play style and players can make classes that are OP to some enemies. And also, I believe I said "I can live without those stuff (obsidian stuff, kat hats)", and mean by that, I mean I don't need those gears to feel that I am been treated equal to everyone else, this is still a pay to win game in some aspects and I am a F2P player, I am expected to be treated as the under dog of all MMOs, and I am fine with that (if seems you have a bone to pick with an unfair system, TBH nothing is fair in this world, so why bother trying to balance everything? Leave THEM BE...)

Ps. Don't walk away from me DRAYCOS! >:( I am not FINISHED! (This thread however, is finished.)

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 20:45

#47

Zeddy

@Midnight-Dj

"Now let's imagine a game that is totally and utterly fair, everyone can only craft azure guardian set, and every monsters in the game can only deal normal damage (no status, coz that in theory statues are unbalanced). You wonder through clockwork killing the same stuff over and over, doing the same tatics over and over again."

What does this have to do with anything?

"Ps. if there is such a huge utility gap between the scenario armor and performance enhancing armor, then why didn't you make a thread about that and try to balance them >:\ ?"

Like Draycos said, you've missed what this thread is even saying. The Apocrean stuff is (mostly) balanced. Black Kat hat is, in the standards put forth by Chaos, balanced. When Draycos says the items have a clear, distinctive impact on gameplay, he means they can do things differently from all the stuff already present. Let me illustrate.

Let's say the Obsidian Carbine was not a poison Sentenza. Let's instead say it was a piercing Sentenza. Is a piercing Sentenza overpowered compared to regular Sentenza? Of course not, don't be ridiculous. It's the same gun. Two guns that are the same can't be unbalanced. The only difference is the damage type. In theory, the game's four damage types are balanced.

How many people would be severely annoyed if they were gone for the duration of the Apocrean event and missed a piercing Sentenza? I'm gonna' hazard a guess and say all of them. Lots of people would really like a piercing Sentenza. A piercing Sentenza would have a clear, distinctive effect on gameplay and releasing it only during a short, annual event would leave a lot of players feeling left out.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 20:53

#48

Draycos

No. I'm not going to graveyard a perfectly rational suggestion because of some backwards reasoning.

Let me just say that you can downplay the gear all you want, or say that I should take that to another thread (even though this is totally relevant since they'd no longer be powerful and exclusive), but you can't argue that it's unnecessarily shelving content.

I'm tempted to make a multi-paragraph rant on why using your "totally and utterly fair" system, exactly what I said a few posts ago, helps my case rather than yours, or how the Obsidian gear makes Antigua and Graviton worth using in the endgame, or how the Kat Hiss cowl is the only shadow-defense Bomber helmet/the BKC is the only other hybrid-glass-cannon helmet in the game (with shadow and MSI to boot), or how there's two enemies, one boss, and an entirely new kind of level that's tied to an event...

But let's settle for one paragraph, paraphrased. You seem like all you want to do is play the other side, just because you can, so I don't want to waste time.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 21:02

#49

Midnight-Dj

@zeddy

Still, BKC is not superior over Chaos, not by a long shot, so I don't see why Draycos or anyone wanting it so bad. Sereiously, if you want glass connon gear just pick chaos, geezz... The reason why I made that 'everyone only use levi blade and the game is utterly fair' thing is that I thought Draycos wants the BKC and the obsidian stuff to be avilable all year around so they can be accessed by everyone(in another word, making it fair for everyone). If that is what he wanted, then I would say no, smart people can live without those promo gears just fine, don't see why Draycos have to be a butthurt about it. (if you already have sentenza and acheron, why make obsidian carbine and edge? Sounds like a waste of money and time to me)

And as for the piercing antigua... I am not 100% agree with you on that one zeddy, why would I need a piercing antigua when my blitz needle eats deviltes for breakfast? And as for wolvers, I am pretty sure a skolver set+FF/BTB will out perform the piercing antigua any day of the week. And would anyone felling left out when they can craft a badas callahan (which is obiviously still the best wolver killer even if piercing antigua is released(if you sare put stun on that gun, OOO, YOU ARE DEAD)) at any time they wanted? People really needs to start appreciating the good standard gears that are flying off their radars, and stop dreaming about the promo gears, OOO still needs a excuse to sell all those supply depot crap at a low price.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 21:07

#50

Zeddy

"Still, BKC is not superior over Chaos"

I did not say it was. But if you think they don't present different playstyles, both of which are fun in their own ways, our conversation is done.

"The reason why I made that 'everyone only use levi blade and the game is utterly fair' thing."

But what your argument actually shows is that the game becomes more fun when it has more variety. Imagine if the game was exactly as you described and you could only get different, non-normal weapons through events.

"I am pretty sure a skolver set+FF/BTB will out perform the piercing antigua any day of the week."

Okay. Acheron will also outperform Sentenza, what's your point?

" And would anyone felling left out when they can craft a badas callahan "

Google says yes.

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Stop making temporary events after you put so much work into the content in them... and instead...