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Play style revamp. [come if you like cookies or anything delicouse]

7 replies [Last post]
Thu, 11/14/2013 - 10:07
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell

Lets face it, spiral knights has an awesome concept, with a awesome atmosphere, weapons, armor, and even an awesome story line. But theres one thing about this game that really rustles my jimmies, the play style is just becoming redundant for older players. (or players who've been playing for over a year at that) The goal isn't making things more harder to defeat because once skill takes place we get to the same point that we're at now and that in itself is annoying, MMO's are suppose to be interactive so why not make interaction sets so the players can enjoy rektin the clockworks in a enjoyable flare style?

I'll give some examples of what I mean:

- Combo systems: The game already has combo based attacks for swords so this can work, there could be chain links for awesome setups so other players can combo into an enemy while gunners can generally cause an awesome mixup making hybrids have more flair an example could be 2 hits with a flourish, switch to callahan and blast the enemy knocking them back with a slight delay allowing a finishing move for a heavy sword like divine avenger or sadruska. Bombs could be major setup starters but their downfall would have to consist of a charge time as usual.

- Chain commands: By chain commands this works best with a duo or full party, basically a chain command allows one player or two to damage one or multiple enemies in one shot at the expense that the second player can fallow up the attack one example could be that player 1 does a 4 hit swing with a cutter, activates a shield bash towards the next player juggling the enemy into player 2 who then deals a charge attack with a glacius blasting the enemy to the end right at player 3 who could then finish the move with a timed bomb explosion which would demolish the enemy. Again causes flair for the game something we can all enjoy.

- Chain grab command: Since this is technically a mix of an action RPG with MMO attributes and sandbox, having a chain grab command makes sense, a simple double tap forward causes the player to thrust forward very slightly (were talking half a block or less) and if the player holds down the attack button this gives the player to do a command grab that can cause a top view cinematic grab which could either crumple the enemy to the ground OR it could cause a combo system starter, the downfall to this is that enemies can retaliate or cancel the grab command with a 70 to 30% ratio if its frontal (meaning the enemy isnt stunned) and it can cancel completely if the enemy i.e lockdown player shields breaking the grab, which could cause the enemy to do a strong attack since the attack would drop your defense by 30% and causes a strong cooldown if its a miss which cannot be shield canceled. It also has a 4 second cool down after a successful chain grab which can limit a combo so the enemy cannot be juggled into an endless combo unless they have a nitch like size or constantly flinch (i.e. lumbers and greavers)

- Shield breakers and buff banners: Since we have counters and buffs why not give them the extra mile? Now hold up all you lockdown players this will not harm the guardians in any way...unless they really suck. The idea of shield breaking would have an opposite effect on guardians, since guardians have resistance to all damage types shield breaking would be reflected by the guardians armor. The damage type that is the least used would be the shield breaking key in this factor. An example of this could be Player 1 charges their callahan and fires a shot, while player 2 shields to defend it would either hit causing damage to the shield or deflect the attack entirely damaging player 1's team instead. The chance of deflecting an attack is based on how strong of a resistance you have on the damage type, anything with high resistance would have a small damage resistance while anything with a more max feature would deflect it completely. Also since chain command grabs are a recommendation Guardians who are attacked by other players could execute a chain grab command during hit stun which will be 100% effective if executed during the attack phase which is a great retaliation since they are a grounded fighting style.
As for the clockworks enemies in general could have a shielded buff which would resist attacks and buff their attributes depicting their weaknesses: Enemies like fiends could have a buff banner which can be activated if a player attacks them with a shadow weapon which could either heal them, or give them additional buff towards other damage types such as elemental or even piercing. In general if you attack something with their own resistance you can expect to pay the price due to their defense which recommends a well balanced arsenal or a neutral type arsenal.
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New Modes and rearrangements that might need to be adjusted for this to work:

- Shield canceling would need to be implemented as a true system then a "glitch"
- Weapons might need damage scaling meaning as the amount of hits increase the amount of damage decreases
- Weapons need a peculiar damage output that have strict constraints on all damage both critical, normal and resistance that don't overlap on other weapon types (meaning light weapons, medium weapons and heavy weapons)
- Guns need a combo style that is both constrictive towards ammo and reloading making them a supportive offense weapon like they should be.
- Statuses need to be less common in weapons making vials more dependent
- Bombs would need a new approach on damage scaling including a place bomb mechanic and a charge toss mechanic so they can have a more defined function as area control instead of a place and run type deal
- all weapons need a very small hit delay when an attack is wiffed and a instant response when the attack connects.
- certain weapons might need more animations
- certain weapons might need new characteristics
- all weapons would need a defined play style making some more easy to master and others harder but effective if mastered.
- the final flourish line might need a new animation that makes it more combo friendly OR decrease damage scaling
- damage scaling is faster in normal mode gradually getting more slower the closer you get to elite mode
- armor must have a limit to damage scale forcing lockdown players or PvP players to go for resets so they can increase their damage back.
- buffs might be in vial form
- the charge meter of a weapon can charge while the player is still in the middle of a combo if damage scale is going past 70% on damage scale to finish the combo and reset.
- fire cannot have flinch capabilities
- curse drops combos automatically
- freeze can be an easy combo starter but damage scale is increased by 30% if the enemy is broken from ice
- static can be an easy combo starter but damage scale is increased by 50% if the enemy is broken from ice
- sleep automatically creates 75% damage scale after the player is woken up.
- poison decreases damage scale by 30%
- stun expands the window of time between combos allowing for players to increase the combo but damage scale increases with each attack until a reset is placed
- shield canceling is impossible to do after a combo reaches 3 hits
- the brandish line cannot be combo friendly with itself
- the alchemer line can be combo friendly with itself
- magnus line will need a enemy knockback once done making it less combo friendly but instead a great finisher move.

What is the intention of this topic? To make the basic play style more wide spread so that skilled players can enjoy the game with more options, and newer players can still combo spam their way to victory. This gives the opportunity for players to test new play styles for the game, and enjoy the game regardless of its repetition since there will be something to enjoy if its figuring out new fighting styles, figuring out new ways to handle skilled players, or even give others the upper hand against challenging foes.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 15:03
#1
Bustware's picture
Bustware
Hmmm, 0 actually...?

Well, I like the idea that using a vial can also aid or buff you, not only used to harm enemies. Also, weapons sure need some upgrades. But combo and chain commands? No, it would be making it too much messed up with other games making it less unique.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 15:17
#2
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

first things first, I may see this into a more fluid, better constructed and engineered SK2. here, there would be too much to do, before and after this.
comboing and chaining are good concepts, making the use of multiple weapons and help of party members to achieve the maximum damage possible. it's the next step on the teamwork aspect of the game.
grabbing is one of the things I am totally sure that it cannot being implemented in the game without serious glitches, bugs ect. the concept is good all right, it's just how the game is structured that makes this impossible. if we would have an actual y axis, well, it would be a great start. right now, structuring animations for each enemy would be a great load of work.
shield counter (it's practically that) is a good concept that can be implemented, but it would not work with everything. bombs, for example. especially mist bombs. but it would be a good balancing factor in that sense. being able to counter sword/ gun attacks would be great, but your model seems like luck based. something like 99% of the other games that have this feature, if you shield right before the attack hits, the attack rebounds on the attacker, would be better imo. then your resistance idea could be used on how much % of the damage is actually reflected. you don't want to be reflected every time you swing your DA and for the full damage of DA, right?
buff banners idea is good, although it forces diversification through buffs, it can be a good deterrent to not use certain weapons on certain monsters.

then there is the list of tweaks that brings me to the fact that, again, I don't think it's remotely likely that this will be implemented into the game. there is then the thing that "game is good because it's simple ect", I'll leave that to others.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 17:11
#3
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
This is my original comment.

The deflection is actually buffed by how resistant you are to a certain damage type and would work only if you raised your shields. Its keenly aware for guardians which can either A, be a resistance to projectiles with the same resistance or B, be completely resistant to a damage type completely if its defense is high enough. (When I put the A or B its a discussion of which one would be recommended best, not a chance factor.) That aside we could use an example:

Lets say we have a guardian wearing a skolver set. If he were to get attacked with a flourish with scenario A his shield would take significantly less damage then that of a person who swings a glacius. The glacius will chip more damage on the skolver set player then the flourish because it has a weaker resistance on elemental then piercing. But if someone were to shoot a callahan bullet at the skolver, since it does less damage then the flourish and deals piercing it would be deflected back since its damage output is lesser then the resistance of the armor.

With scenario B the same scenario is applied with the skolver set only the outcome would be that if the skolver gets hit he takes normal damage on his shield and the enemy gets the damage deflected back as well since skolver has a high resistance to piercing it would manage well against flourishes and callahans. This would only work if the player stacks a skolver helmet and a skolver suit, if the player goes hybrid this wont work.

Lastly it is a great game due to simplicity but in reality the idea isnt making 30 new buttons for 30 new things its a simple command you can do like double tapping forward to run in most games. It doesnt change up the games core too much and it definitely doesnt destroy the games simplicity unless you think double tapping forward is too much then in that case please play this http://www.mabuhaynet.com/games/easiest-game.php

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 02:40
#4
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

you mean, your shield takes damage and you deflect the hit if you are resistant enough? mind if I say nope? hybrid sets are good for variety. we need variety.
about the guardian shield taking less damage depending on which armor you have, I think that it should be a base defense against everything, then I'm good.
about the simplicity part, I'm passing the discussion into someone who has some will to do it. right now I have none.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 03:51
#5
Aotr's picture
Aotr
+1

so like elsword? don't know how that'll work and would require a lot of programming and thought, so i'll doubt it'll ever be added unless they make a gamechange update like those in maplestory revamp

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 07:42
#6
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
This is my original comment.

Well for one, they want a larger community so they'd be willing to stretch the extra mile to implement a new play style. Please also note that guardian shields generally have a base defense against everything, but the added bonus if this were to be implemented would only increase by what the user is wearing. On the down side players that dont have a resistant type strong enough will still take damage to their shield but the resistance would be weaker resulting in a quicker shield break.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 12:23
#7
Demonlust's picture
Demonlust
for some reason yes and for some no

i like them to implement more stuff as an option but by not changing the old mechanic.

and if the commands are still maintainable without adding new hotkeys for new commands, i think it's a good one. (my fingers are too lazy to move an inch to reach other buttons) it's tiring when there is too much button.

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