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The Chaos buff was good for Lockdown

15 replies [Last post]
Mon, 11/18/2013 - 11:19
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I have a blog. Sometimes I write things on it. Most often, I don't. Regardless, I decided to write about SK some while ago but I never published the post anywhere but on my blog (which no one reads) until now. I decided I'd post it here in an effort to make this subforum a better place with proper debate and thus, I'd like to request that anyone straying off topic is just ignored and naughty words are not used. Here's the post:

As it looks on Cradle now, Chaos is king. Very few high end players haven't gotten the full set yet. It’s definitely an overpowered set, that's something you can't really dispute. Here are its current stats:

  • Average normal defence
  • Average elemental defence
  • Average 5* health bonuses
  • Damage Bonus: Medium
  • Charge Time Reduction: Medium
  • Medium weakness to Poison, Fire, Freeze, Shock, and Curse

See also: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Chaos_Cloak

All in all, wearing a piece of Chaos will grant you twelve points of abilities as you get four points for each weapon class. You can compare this to two, which you get from most class pieces as they only give say, Attack Speed Increase: Medium for Swords and such.

So, why do I find the Chaos buff to have been good for Lockdown? Let's start by analysing the metagame as it looked before the buff.

The best swords were toothpicks and Sealed Swords. Of the two Sealed Swords, Gran Faust has an edge over Divine Avenger due to the curse it sometimes inflicts on the second strike. However, Divine Avenger was less commonly resisted so it was widely used because of that. The toothpicks inflict pure damage which is great for dealing with those who don't have any defence against it.

The three viable generic striker armours were Skolver, Vog Cub, and Snarbolax. Since Vog Cub didn't give any damage bonus and Attack Speed Increase can be gotten through Unique Variants, the other two were more preferable. A full Skolver set grants immunity to minor freeze while a full Snarby set does not. A mix reaches a freeze resistance of 7 which is enough, too. It should be noted that many have super Unique Variants on their sets, allowing them to walk straight through various haze bombs and that plain sucks. It would only be fair if people fighting against haze bombs would not be able to identify it as long as the users of the haze bombs can’t identify the armour of the enemy.

Since most swordspeople carry three weapons, it usually ends up being Final Flourish, a gun of choice, and a Sealed Sword. The metagame was pretty plain and boring because it didn't really matter what you'd pick. If you were up against a Skolver, you used your Sealed Sword. If you were up against a Snarby or a mix, you used your toothpick.

Eventually, the Black Kat Cowl was released to make people buy Elevator Passes so they could grind for it. I did and I got my Black Kat Cowl that way. The Black Kat Cowl had to be justified, though. Three Rings did this by buffing Chaos so that you could get it if the Black Kat Cowl was out of your reach. Since the two are balanced, Black Kat Cowl isn't a super overpowered pay to win item because Chaos is essentially just as good.

Back to Lockdown, then. Chaos is the only piece of elemental resistant armour available. It gives you just as much extra sword damage as Skolver and Snarbolax does while also giving you some Charge Time Reduction. Few charge swords, though. The ones that have useful charges are Fang of Vog and the Brandishes. Charging Fang of Vog with Chaos in Lockdown is however suicide so in the end, Chaos is only better than Skolver and Snarbolax if you're using a Brandish and we ignore other weapon classes.

Gunslingers thus got more out of the buff as Charge Time Reduction is useful to them when using the most popular dedicated gunslinger guns: Alchemers. One could argue this was the worst part of the buff because gunslingers benefited from it so much.

One should not forget hybrids, of course. Thanks to the buff, it’s a very viable style now. In full Chaos, you could even bring a haze bomb if you are a Striker and get Charge Time Reduction: Medium if you've heated the bomb.

Lastly, there are bombers. What about them? They already had Mad Bomber. They still benefitted from the Chaos buff, but not like others did. Bombs are an awful lot about statuses and statuses are Chaos users' nightmare. Hit a Chaos user with Ash of Agni and they'll lose half of their health over time. Hit them with Voltaic Tempest and they're harmless as rainbows and kittens. Grab a Shivermist Buster and you can keep half of the enemy team completely disabled until one of your teammates goes jerkface mode and kills them for pretty damage numbers, allowing the enemies to switch to Skolver. Try full Plate gear, equip a couple of Penta-Heart Pendants and grab nearest Venom Veiler. You can tank most people that way but Chaos users are especially weak to poison and no one bothers to get UVs against it.

So, to summarise, the Chaos buff has done the following:

  • More swords viable in Lockdown.
  • Gunslinging much more attractive.
  • Being a hybrid is much easier.
  • You need pay to win UVs for less things now.
  • Bombers are much more powerful vs Chaos users.
Mon, 11/18/2013 - 11:54
#1
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi

Chaos has done good for people wearing chaos.
For the general good of LD, it has done nothing but ruined it.

I'm fine with a DMG bonus to everything, but the CTR is what makes people rely on nothing but charge spamming.
Charge spamming is not what embodies the spirit of LD imo.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 12:07
#2
Reto-Da-Liz's picture
Reto-Da-Liz

Feyi for president!

#votefeyi2013

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 12:16
#3
Bleyken's picture
Bleyken

Chaos buff made it mainstream... I had Chaos before it was mainstream.... Now when I use it I'm a clone...

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 12:52
#4
Krakob's picture
Krakob

@Feyi
What about bombers, for one? Being a bomber in any manner is a lot easier due to common status weakness and fear of being screwed over even by say shock waltzers isn't as problematic if you carry a sword along because the sword in question can hit hard.
What about gunslingers? It's suddenly a lot easier to be powerful as one. They were an even smaller minority before, I'm rather sure.
Serious swordsmen were hardly affected because CTR means nothing to them, meanwhile.
Maybe our perceptions of the metagames just vary. Pre-chaos buff, there was no diversity in my eyes. Now there is.

I can't say I see much charge spamming. Charging something mid-combat if you aren't in a haze is often suicidal, as well. Carrying a charge before entering combat is something you should do if you can deploy the charge in question without getting screwed. Explain charge spammers!

@Contri
Join Shard Squad you hipster <3

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 16:01
#5
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

I just wanted Chaos because it looked nice with Black Kat Cowl.

I regret nothing.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 16:23
#6
Sirius-Voltbreaker's picture
Sirius-Voltbreaker
i am half chaos....

I have a chaos hood and divine matle on me. Still notice way more damage.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 16:37
#7
Retequizzle's picture
Retequizzle
no chaos no problems

no chaos

no problems

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 12:05
#8
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
hey now...

Some things really didn't make sense to me with peoples' choices back when I assumed they had already perfected the sword-striker metagame, and you know what, that was a dumb assumption, because they didn't.

People wore Skolver because of the great damage bonus, but for some reason chose PIERCING damage toothpicks as weapon of choice. I never understood this until I realized that brandish lines as effective-damage (non-resisted) swords were just largely overlooked for everything except for their charge attack back then. Surprisingly, now that an elemental armor line (Chaos) is more popular, Elemental Brandishes are the hot thing. Only a few Acherons out there, which would be the next best logical choice if you're just using normal attacks, as quick-strikers are wont to do.

Chaos is a little double-edged for the current gun lines, since yes, USING chaos means easier damage and more offensive bonuses, but enemies with chaos also have elemental defense, making every shot count for less damage (and with weapons as damage-starved as guns, each shot reduction counts). At the same time though, they are amazing bait for status effects, so (at least as a gunslinger), strategy vs chaos has become: spam shock until status hits, switch to umbra and deal super effective death damage. That aside, I knew only a few gunslingers who actually committed to using charge attacks as their main style of attack in Lockdown - for the most part, CTR was/is less of a big deal than ASI because once your charge gets out there, your position is blown and you become a target. CTR won't save you from a swarm, but being able to move earlier from a charge animation (ASI) does.

I really do like that status bombs (especially Shivermist) have become 'viable' if not only due to the fact that there are less skolvers out there now lol.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 12:30
#9
Krakob's picture
Krakob
@Seiran

Toothpicks have always been preferred due to their combination of range and speed. In the end, the defence from a set makes a very small difference, maybe one or two hits. Thus, toothpicks were viable against Skolvers. Sealed Swords were much prefered to deal with them faster although it was definitely riskier if you weren't good at it. Brandishes have terrible range and are slower than toothpicks so that's why they have never been super popular. Acheron is however the most powerful sword in the game and it will definitely see a rise in popularity now.

I'm guessing this might lead to a drop in popularity for Chaos as Snarbolax and combinations with BKC defend against the dreaded blade of overpowerednessyfullizity. Swords are less balanced since the buff, sadly. The balance issues we had before hardly compare.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 12:30
#10
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Seiran

Flourishes deal 235-315 damage.

Wearing full skolver protects you from 25 of that damage.

Brandishes deal 292-409 damage. (331-456 for Acheron)

Weaing full Chaos protects you from 25-50 of that damage.

It doesn't really matter. Flourishes were chosen because of their speed and range. Skolver was chosen partly for its defence against Flourishes and mostly for its damage boost.

Defence should not be a very big concern for Lockdown.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 12:36
#11
Krakob's picture
Krakob
lol ninja'd (hi bear :3 )

Indeed, 'tis so. If you can get a good UV, defence can become a bit more notable, though. A max UV is 51.2 defence. Get four of those (two ele max and two normal max, for example) and you'll probably bring anything but a SS/Acheron down to the threshold (defence < damage/2).

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 15:01
#12
Jawny's picture
Jawny
-

Set a toggle macro to charge up your brandish and release it
Walk around with arrow keys
win.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 16:13
#13
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum
@Jawny

"6. Restrictions
You agree not to do any of the following prohibited actions:
...
modify any files or use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools, including scripting or macroing software, or attempt to disassemble the game client and/or decipher the data transmissions between Spiral Knights' client and server. These activities will result in immediate termination of the Player's Account and may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability."

;)

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 04:25
#14
Terra-Necro's picture
Terra-Necro
@Seiran

So true about the shivermist. I usually bring one whenever I bomb using recon. One time, the opposing team got to 430 points before I froze all of them. by the time my teammates finished recapping, their point count was 499 lol. We won, though there was a lot of hate and threats of manslaughter.

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 16:42
#15
Rangerwillx's picture
Rangerwillx

"I have a blog"
Xtweeterx, are you reading?

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