Spiral Knights - Is the Fearless Rigadoon a liar or am I just lucky?

Is the Fearless Rigadoon a liar or am I just lucky?

22 replies [Last post]

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 13:33

Bamzalot

Well, we have all heard about the debates of the Final Flourish, Barbarous Thorn Blade, Fearless Rigadoon, and Furious Flamberge. Every time people say that the Final Flourish or Barbarous Thorn Blade are superior. The reason why is because the Rigadoon and Flameberge rarely cause their status effects, making them significantly less powerful.

I personally like using the Fearless Rigadoon the most because it matches my Recon Ranger uniform. Despite the weakness, I use it a lot. But I've been noticing that it stuns monsters a lot more than it should. So much that I can't quite say it's a "slight chance." I think that for every monster I hit with it, I land a stun at least 40% of the time. Now that still isn't too great but it's definitely more than a slight chance!

So, is the Fearless Rigadoon lying to us by saying it only has a slight chance to stun? Like how the Electron Vortex use to say it wouldn't cause shock? (Or at least I'm pretty sure that was the weapon.) Or am I just lucky with it?

As for those of you that are going to get mad at me for asking this (I know there is someone!), please forgive me for asking a burning question I've had for a while. After all, that is a horrible thing to do.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 13:45

Bopp

surprising

I don't use my Fearless Rigadoon very much, but your "at least 40%" figure is pretty surprising. 40% is a good rate, for such a strong status. But my experience (imperfectly remembered) seems much lower than that.

Can you try to collect some systematic data? If I get a chance, I'll take a stab too.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:06

Fehzor

40%? I feel lucky if I get half that... of course, the biggest issue is that it the stun doesn't do much when it does happen, and if it does do something its only for like 3 seconds and once every 10 hits.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:21

Rezzler

@OP Try testing it this

@OP Try testing it this way:

Hit a scuttlebot 100 times with the first hit, and record how many times it stuns.

Shouldnt take more than 5 minutes (or 2), and it will lrovide some nice data.

Or you could test this with each of the 6 fMilies, of you really carexd about it.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:31

Glacies

While we're on this subject: Does using the Charge Attack increase the chance of inflicting Status? Or is this just another factor of luck?

Either way, I thought it was confirmed that Slight was 10%.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:08

Midnight-Dj

I think we should all know that a luck based mechanic in the game will always raise a few eye brow. Things like the Mario party is the worst offender of this crime (the final boss literally have you play dices and roll numbers to win, you are basically at the mercy of your luck). The luck base on the rigadoon and flameberge is just like that, you either get a status on the enemy or nothing at all. Maybe this is why people prefer FF or BTS, they would rather have pure damage over some unreliable RNG based statuses. Unless, of course, the statuses is what they wanted, but why suffer through the inferior damage when there are alternatetives that can inflict statuses much better (pepper box and callahan both have better chance of inflicting statuses than the FF variants)?

Moral of the story: kill efficiency > Fun, either have fun or get killed.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:23

Rezzler

^ Oh yeah, dmg >

Oh yeah, dmg > statuses.

That is obviously why people use storm driver over nova driver.

Or Haze bombs over nitronome.
You are clearly a genius....

(Sarcasm, in case you didnt catch the obvious last statement)

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:12

Avihr

Lol Bro, u can't compare

Lol Bro, u can't compare those lines cuz the chances of actually causing status are terrible for the flourish line, unlike the storm driver that has a good chance of causing shock, friggin SHOCK, the most annoying and pherhaps the 2nd to best status after curse.

And for the bombs is just black and white, either go 100% status or 100% damage, it just can't be compared to the odds of a rigadoon, or a flameberge.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:18

Midnight-Dj

@Rezzler

*facepalm* you obviously didn't get it, what I wanted to say is that if you want to inflict stuns, there are better alternatives, and the rigadoon and the flameberge are clearly designed not to inflict a crap tonnes of fire and stun to a group of enemy, if you do want to inflict alot of stuns and fire, you can use other weapons. So rigadoon and flameberge clearly failed in their purpose, sure they can be a miracle worker some cases, but wouldn't superior damage help more than a randomly generated stun/fire?

And just to make things clear, nitro and shiver occupies two different Niches, one is for pushback/normal damage and the other is for the sole purpose of freezing, you can't compare the two. However, you can compare irontech bomb and nitronome, one has stun for the exchange of a MSD/CTI while the other is a good general purpose bomb(nitro), and right here, most bombers would tell you right away that nitro is better than irontech due to nitro's superior utility. So again damage>statuses, so your arguement is invalid. (no sarcasm intended, I don't use that kind of cheap insults.)

And as for storm and nova, yes, there is an obvious difference since the shock is a game changer in LD, but I think you already know that there is a gun out there that can perform better than storm driver in terms of shocking and game changing... whose name I will not mention, because of the angry LDers.

Statuses are good, but not as good as pure damage(that accounts to player inflicted only), not by a long shot, you can inflict whatever statuses you want at an enemy/player but at the end of the day, if you don't have enough, guaranteed damage, your enemy will the the one that is standing, not you.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:36

Glacies

Tried out 100 hits with the first hit along with the finisher from the Charge just to continue on:

First hit had 5/100 Hits with Status attached.
Charge had 21/100 Hits with Status attached.

Luck and nothing but.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 05:30

#10

Bamzalot

I'll try getting more information on this as soon as possible

I've been more tied up in other stuff to get out my own data on this but I will as soon as possible. I did find some time to (sadly) fight a lumber in tier 3 with my Fearless yesterday.

For me, I'd say I get a stun 1 in every 5 combos which I'd guess is pretty normal for a slight chance. But every now and a then I'd go on a bit of a stun streak. I have managed to get a full stunning combo once and had the first and last hit stun 2 other times. I'd also like to point out that it seems I can stun pierce resistant monsters more often than monsters that are neutral or resistant to it. I got swarmed by greavers so I figured it was a good time to test out some stun before I got my skull ripped out of my head. I got at least 1 stun for every other combo.

So far this definitely feels like just my luck which is uncommon for me.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 13:23

#11

Poopsie

...

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/78497

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 14:49

#12

Rezzler

@Midnight-Dj Didnt read your

@Midnight-Dj Didnt read your post, you really dont have anything useful to say :P

@Glacies That sounds a little more legit. I guess it is luck for the OP. U shuld go lockdown!!!! Stunn everyyone.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 16:08

#13

Midnight-Dj

@Rezzeler

Selective hearing and reading disability are strong in this one :P

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 16:16

#14

Bamzalot

I can do some true testing now.

I have some time to test this out more accurately for myself now. I'll try doing this the same way that Glacies did. I'll hit a monster a bunch of times and count how much stun I get. I'll also try it against a few different monster families. Preferably beasts, gremlins, and slimes to cover all resistance/weakness types.

Before doing so however, I'd like to point out one more thing I've noticed. It seems like my Fearless is more likely to stun monsters that have already been stunned or are stunned. But once again, I will be testing this out to see if it really does count to something.

I will record what has happened here later on.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:47

#15

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Well, you can have a 10% batting average and hit a thousand times in a row. Enemies could also not be stunned after playing a game of chess on a whole field of Swagger Storms. Same here.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 17:53

#16

Bamzalot

Boy am I lazy or what.

Egh, took me forever to get this. But here is my record. All of these have been stuns depending on just any hit. Sometimes the first and sometimes the last. No charge attacks involved however

Without a shield bash stun:

Gremlins: 1/100 hits stunned. (Dang, where did that luck go.)

Fiends: 45/100 hits stunned. (There it is! And yes, I said I would do beasts but I ended up in too many fiend themed areas so I just went with it.)

Slimes: 23/100 hits stunned. (This seems like a slight chance to me.)

With a shield bash to get a stun before a stun:

Gremlins: 38/100 hits stunned. (Definite improvement and a bit more than slight chance.)

Fiends: 52/100 hits stunned. (No, I most certainly am not making that up. I stun fiends like mad! And 52% seems like a little more than a "slight chance" wouldn't you say?)

Slimes: 4/100 hits stunned. (Here now, is the decrease. Guess shield bashing doesn't exactly always improve the odds)

Ok, that's what I've gotten for now. If anything, Fearless Rigadoon is probably not lying. And I most likely just have a weird case of luck. I can stun a lot sometimes but other times I barely get a thing.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 19:35

#17

Zeddy

It seems like fiends are weak to stun, and therefore more prone to catching it?

Would certainly explain Sun Shards.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:49

#18

Krakob

@Zeddy

Let's test it before I get Fearless Rigadoon! :D

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:30

#19

Zeddy

kay I tested it. Devilites are not weak to stun, nor are gorgos. However, greavers and silkwings are.

Trojans are resistant to stun.

Beasts are also weak to stun.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 18:38

#20

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Waiting for the Acheron nerf so I can use Fearless Rigadoon again.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 04:14

#21

Fehzor

Thats interesting. I guess I could see rigadoon being useful for greavers if that is the case.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 18:02

#22

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

DA and Suda are already decent against mobs of Greavers. Nobody uses them, that's the problem.

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Is the Fearless Rigadoon a liar or am I just lucky?