Erm... The OP actually really makes no sense to me. Could you make it more clear possibly?
Also, if you are saying that a lvl 25 arena should pay the same as a lvl 25 compound, then I say no. Terrible. Probably not what you are saying anyway.

"(That is, if no one can fight candlestick keep levels, those would pay out more to the few that choose to farm them?)

Isn't that what boss levels are supposed to be for? You know, if they weren't easy once you did them a few times.

That sounds like, "this sounds like it would require work and I'm lazy, so no."

you forgot to add rare drops in your equation. maybe have more chance of dropping rare stuff in arcade than in missions (and by missions i mean using the mission interface)?? as stated, there is inequality in payout which makes arcade almost a second option (with the main being FSC). And people grind Vana why? for crowns of course so that they can craft more gear and possibly show off? idk. but my point is, the main drive for players is gear (and possibly accessories and costumes to dress up) and occassionally, arcade for mats and recipes or an attempt to make it feel like the arcade really is the highlight of the game, which is sad. right now theyre just delaying players through the radiant issue by making use of the forge system (the forge system isnt bad but they decided to migrate radiants to Vana's room and Shadow Lairs) and players respond how? more FSC of course because they lack gear to do SL because they lack radiants and crowns.

(i think the other motive of this thread is to discuss the issue of the arcade being a ghost town)

I agree with you on this. Levels should give the same amount of reward, whether that be Crowns or something else. So long as it equals about the same for each, then we can avoid things like people farming the Royal Jelly and Vanaduke.

However, the biggest problem with trying to change this is with SK's loot system.
Monsters are the main source of materials and Crowns in the game. The amounts of materials and Crowns you get from Treasure Boxes and the few scattered around the level is absolutely pitiful in comparison to the amount you get from enemies.
Unless the Treasure Boxes and monster drop tables become completely separate, any level with a high monster population like the boss levels, Graveyards, and Arenas are ALWAYS going to pay out more in everything unless there's an absolutely ludicrous amount of Treasure Boxes in the other level sets.

I propose something like this:
- Monsters ONLY drop Heat, usable items, their respective materials, and small amounts of Crowns, with the occasional super rare drop (ex. Darkfang Shield).
- Treasure Boxes ONLY drop Crowns, rare usable items, and rarely Tokens.
- Rare Treasure Boxes ONLY drop a lot of Crowns, Tokens, and Rarities.
- Add more Treasure Rooms and Treasure Corners into levels with a low monster population. Candlestick and Compounds are PERFECT for these types of rooms and could use more reward since the dangers in these levels are quite different than other levels.
- Make Treasure Vault levels have an abundance of Rare Treasure Boxes instead of an abundance of Minerals. The player shouldn't be robbed of riches just because there are very few enemies to fight here.

This way players can better plan their expeditions into the Clockworks.
Need to stock up on Crowns quickly? Aim for the more puzzle-like levels.
Need some materials for your gear? Aim for the areas infested with monsters.
Need Crowns and materials? Aim for the Clockwork Tunnels. Or try to get the Arenas, stocked full of monsters AND treasure should you be brave enough for it!

Well that's one way, anyways.
There are certainly more, like making more types of Treasure Boxes that only drop materials, only drop Crowns, only drop usable items, only drops Heat, etc.

Or maybe separating the monsters into more tiers than Mini, Standard, and Elite.
Zombies are standard enemies, but their difficulty certainly doesn't equal the high amount of rewards they dish out. The only way they become hard is in massive numbers like in FSC, but then there's a huge inflation of drops. Move the simpler enemies like Zombies and Chromas into a new tier lower than Standard and adjust their drops accordingly.

Either way, unless the way SK calculates drops from monsters and Treasure Boxes is changed up, there's no real solution except stupid amounts of Treasure Boxes in the levels with lower monster population.

But Fehz, that would still leave the problem of how heavily populated levels like the boss levels would still provide more Crowns and materials.
Unless your proposed unique materials can make up for thousands of Crowns of difference, along with all the materials that these monsters also drop which can be used for food and crafting and selling, there's just too much of a difference to be made up with a single factor like that.

Specific level materials are also kind of already in place being dictated by Stratum type and monster type, so making it more specific than that could get kind of annoying, especially with the random nature of the Clockworks.
Also, once this idea is first implemented, there would be a good amount of backlash. If the Arcade isn't running the levels needed and you're in the middle of crafting something, you're stuck until the Arcade rotates. It would certainly increase traffic to the Arcade, but would also increase frustration with how random it can be. If there were some way to generate the type of level you want, like with Minerals or something, then it would be a little less frustrating. Also, if all levels payout technically the same, then a way to choose the path through the Clockworks would be perfectly acceptable.

I like the idea of a faster way to sell materials with a mini-AH tab or something similar.
Another idea would be mini-markets run by Guild Halls. Members could dump their excess materials into storage and high ranking members could set prices on them. Players outside the Guild could then buy them outside the Guild Hall building. Guilds could then compete over prices and help finance their Guild's upkeep with it.

I think changing the loot system is probably the best way but forgoing that, approaching each of the level sets individually and looking at their problems is another sound route to go.
Graveyards and FSC- Overpopulation due to the ridiculous amount of Zombies vs. how "difficult" they are. Number of Zombies should either be toned down, a group of Zombies replaced with a single Almirian Crusader or even Deadnaught, or their drop tables adjusted to better reflect their simplicity.

Candlestick Keep- Low monster population and generally low amount of Treasure Boxes don't make up for the length of the levels and the constant threat of the Grimalkin. Simple solution would be to add an abundance of Treasure Boxes.

Compounds- Low amount of Treasure Boxes and a high population of monsters that don't drop loot. They're also fairly difficult due to the mix of monster families that can occur there. Maybe making the Minis, maybe even the infinitely respawning ones, drop a very small amount of Crowns or their own material would be helpful since OOO hasn't really put them in other levels outside of the Compounds.

And so on and so on...

The effort in selling the mats tho..
We would need an AH adaptation to make this work.

Stuff like making a multiple of something you sell etc.

How would your new system work off of time?
Would it start deducting Crowns if you manage to Chaos Armor through an entire level faster than you were meant to?
It would throw some incentive off of using offensive armors, but it would feel more like punishing players for being good and fast at the game.

Plus, trying to make a fixed payout based off of the level and then the fluctuating player-run market would cause problems in and of itself.

Also in the end, wouldn't your new materials fall in demand as well?
Unless they were used in a recipe for a consumable item like a prize box of some sort, there would be less and less incentive to venture for these materials.

Even then, it would be extremely hard to balance these new materials against the universal utility of Crowns. Getting a ton of Crowns is enough to net you any item you want in the game.
The new materials, as well as existing materials, would need to be able to create something fairly valuable to counter the usefulness of Crowns. It would also have to be made constantly or rely on new players needing to craft it to fill their arsenal, otherwise it would fall in usefulness and then flood the AH with unwanted auctions or just clog up people's inventories.
The costs of crafting may also have to be taken into consideration, but since there's a bit of a disconnect between getting your reward (Crowns or materials) and crafting the new item, it's not as readily important.

And lastly, how would these new materials drop?
From the monsters on the level so a random quantity can be obtained or from a single pedestal like the Shadow Lairs? It might be too soon to be asking that, but it is something to think about.

( Sorry for all these questions and critiquing, Fehz! D: )

I do believe the design decision involved in including materials in the first place was not that of lining the players' pockets. It seems to me (#6) that materials are primarily a way of picking up what you would need later on to fight the big monsters using the tools you find in the clockworks. This seems to be reflected in the lore of a lot of the equipment as being scavenged from the clockworks itself. Somehow I don't see OOO endorsing materials as a supplementary economic incentive.

I do however like the idea of an auction house widget or quick-access thing at the end of each level, though i could see the AH filling pretty quickly. I also like the idea of craftable lockboxes, that would certainly be neat!

Who were you telling to add you on steam; Zopyros or the whole thread?

Request sent. Boy Skylark's the name on Steam, just so you know it's me.
Though you should have said "everyone" and get a million friend requests! :P

You bring up a very important point with how SK is run off of time now instead of Energy. It's a factor I keep forgetting myself and should try to keep in mind more often.

Anyways, agreed that time spent should be one of the biggest factors in the level's payout. Time spent and difficulty should be the two single biggest factors in my opinion to if a level should pay well.
But this brings up a problem with how random the game can be with everything. There's the levels themselves and also the prizes the Treasure boxes generate.
The randomly generated levels are a little impossible to gauge how much time a player is going to end up spending on them. A lot of levels branch off and can go on for great distances before finally ending in a room that doesn't even have enough Treasure Boxes to make that long trek worthwhile. It gets even worse if you manage to choose the right way first and then backtrack to try to explore everything only to find that the other path ends with a Mineral room or the boxes' contents being an incredible waste of time.
The boxes are going to be a problem and hard to use to balance the payout if they don't have their drop tables adjusted in some way. Heat and consumables are the biggest problems with the Treasure Boxes in my opinion. Heat has no value if you're already leveled up and need Crystals while consumables are only valuable for that single dive into the Clockworks and lose all value afterwards. Consumables are even more annoying now since you can't drop your consumables for the rest of your party to pick up.

The problem with the levels can be fixed a few ways. A few simple ones are:
- a way to teleport back at the end of the dead-end path
- at least one guaranteed large treasure trove on the dead-end path
- another elevator so there are no dead-ends and both paths are the same length
- put the new material on the dead-end
There's a ton of other ways, but I don't want to get too in-depth with the impending Arcade 2.0 on the horizon.
The Treasure box problem can be remedied by just removing Heat and consumables from their drop tables. If OOO really feels that their absurd amount of monsters don't drop enough consumables and Heat and still needs to put it into boxes, then they should create two new boxes for them instead.

As for the craftable prize boxes, I think making it be able to generate some of the old promos would be the best way to go. As TF2 and SK itself so clearly demonstrates, cosmetics are ALWAYS in demand. Giving players a way to get them aside from shelling out stupid amounts of Energy to the Supply Depot would certainly be a good way to keep people playing. Have the materials used to create the box dictate what promo it would roll for and maybe make different qualities of boxes so player can have a better chance of getting the rarer drops for spending more time running through the Clockworks.
It would also justify OOO adding in so many promos if they made it an actual part of the game instead of something that you have to pay for. It could be considered actual content then. They can keep the rarest parts of the promos (like the various Auras) off of the drop tables of these new boxes and make those Supply Depot exclusive.