Spiral Knights - Activating missions' gates with minerals

Activating missions' gates with minerals

41 replies [Last post]

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 08:52

Trats-Romra

The idea just popped from my mind: Make the missions' lobby, require a certain quantity of mineral to go down on the elevator.
It doesn't require that you put mineral at every level. Just on the lobby.

I thought something like that: Clockworks is cycling. To acess the clockworks, you can go to the missions or arcade. But, there's a difference:
When you go on Arcade, you have the gates predetermined, with specific levels from depth 1 to 29. While Mission throw you directly to where you have to go. So it's forced. So, to force, you must use something. How we don't have mist energy to do it, so we use minerals.
Why? Because minerals was used to construct gates. It means that minerals influence how clockworks works. All the mission throw you exactly where you need to go, so you must use minerals to influence the clockworks to generate a elevator to guide you to where you have to go.

So, where I will go to hunt for minerals?
Arcade. Arcade gate are predetermined for the own clockworks, so it doesn't need minerals to influence it. You just need to found a gate and go. And on group, because minerals are shared.

The cost of minerals would be based on Tier. Something like:

For Rank missions(just the missions that have lobby)
Tier 1 - 4 minerals
Tier 2 - 8 minerals
Tier 3 - 12 minerals

For Prestige missions(just the missions that have lobby)
Tier 1 - 3 minerals
Tier 2 - 5 minerals
Tier 3 - 8 minerals

When party fully locked and soloing(rank or prestige)
T1 - 2 minerals
T2 - 3 minerals
T3 - 4 minerals

The cost would be shared. It means that, a mission's gate can be activate for a sum of minerals put by a group or for a unique knight. It could motivate people to go in a group.
Once the gate is activated, a gate timer will be activated and each party member can enter the mission for the next two hours. If a knight, that already has a gate active, enter in a group that don't have the same gate active to them, the knight can help out giving minerals to active it for the others. When he/she do it, his/her gate timer is refreshed.
The minerals required would be based on the existent Gate Construction Guide. But the OOO needs to mark the theme of a mission to determine what minerals will be required on said mission. For example, if they mark the Heart of Ice as fiend level, it'll require Crimsonite and Dark Matter. If they mark as a ice level, it'll require Valestone and Moonstone.

Sure, the Rescue Camp's missions don't will require minerals, because there isn's a way to found mineral there.
And, for the newbies, could have a mission that require the exploration of clockworks. Or, in others words, do an arcade gate once or twice.

So, guys, is it. Just a idea that I wanted to share with you. I want to discuss this with you: It's a good idea, a bad idea, increases grinding, isn't newbie-friendly, etc.
So... That's all folks.

EDIT:
Title changed. I think that the new explains better the suggestion.

EDIT 2:
Credits to U77654

-Changes on cost.
-Added specific cost to prestige missons.
-New details to the part about putting the required minerals.
-Required minerals on mission is now better explained.
-Mineral Spawn on missions.
The required minerals for missions rarely drop in said mission. For example, if FSC requires Dark Matter and Crimsonite, then the mission will drop Luminite, Moonstone, and Valestone and rarely Dark Matter and Crimsonite. This would be so that playing the mission several times could encourage players to do other missions.

-Mineral Pass(U77654 idea)
A new Mineral Pass will allow that knight to enter missions without mineral fees (for 30 days, not purchasable with CE, so that OOO can make some more money). It work on this way:
-A lone knight with a MP can enter missions with no fee
-A group of knights that all have MPs can enter missions with no fee
-If one knight in a group has a MP, the fee is reduced by two minerals per player with a MP (until all have MPs).

If a full group (four people at once) of knights are in a mission, or even an Arcade gate, that have active Mineral Passes, minerals that normally spawn as Small Minerals (+1s) will spawn as Medium Minerals (+2s), and normally Medium Minerals now spawn as Large Minerals (+4), etc. and normally Shiny Minerals (+6) will remain as Shiny Minerals. The now not-as-great-as-a-Graveyard-Treasure Vaults now can get a bit more use...with a small price.

EDIT 3:
-Added cost specific to solo
-Mineral Indicator
The minimap points the locations of mineral deposits.
-After the lobby, the party is locked, but inviting is allowed.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 09:13

Valorai

Heart of Valor

Huh. I'll +1 it.

Gives a seemingly useful purpose for minerals, and it would encourage players to use the arcade more often, albeit not by much. I'm just worried that it would turn a few players away, and make things unnecessarily complicated.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 09:26

Trats-Romra

@Valorai

I was thinking on Arcade when a got this idea.
Maybe this idea require a joining function like of the blast network and lockdown. A button with "I want a party!" writen. So it searches for 10 seconds if there other people doing the same request and party up the higher number of people possible.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 13:53

Flame-Shinobi

I dunno...

It seems like an okay idea. But then Vana grinders would ragequit.... So maybe not....

I just don't know.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 14:24

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Once this happens, Radiants can drop on D26 with no arguments. The group should be able to add crystals together much like Kromgo bribing. However, the mineral count should go like this:
T1- 3 crystals for full mission
T2- 5 crystals for full mission
T3- 8 crystals for full mission

Missions will not require minerals if you have unlocked the mission AND you haven't completed it. The daily presteige missions, the talking with Bechamel/Kozma/Hahn, and the HoH missions will never require minerals. Missions will not spawn minerals, either. Unless at least one knight has an active Mineral Pass. What is a Mineral Pass, you say?

A new Mineral Pass will allow that knight to enter missions without mineral fees (for 30 days, not purchasable with CE, so that OOO can make some more money). If a knight has a Mineral Pass but the rest of the group doesn't, the rest of the group must pay the minerals, but if minerals aren't paid, then the knight with the Mineral pass can continue, and any knight that unlocked the mission and hasn't completed it yet. Once again, a knight with a Mineral Pass in a group in a mission will have minerals spawn, and anyone, Mineral Pass or not, can pick them up, and they will be shared like normal.

So, what does this do?
-Makes the currently useless Moonstone 'n Valestone, as well as the not too useful Crim, DMs, and Lumis have some use.
-Gives more purpose to the Arcade while still having Missions being reasonable to enter.
-Adds a new source of income to OOO that, while not purchasable with CE, is still useful and at the same time isn't a neccessity to play the game.
-Makes Treasure Vaults more exciting than before.

I really hope this gets added in with the Arcade Redux. This thread deserves the title of Suggestion of the Month!!

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 14:28

Trats-Romra

@Flame-Shinobi

They can grind vana on Arcade. And if people constantly play in a party, accumulation of minerals is more easier. And the cost is shared, so put minerals to activate a mission's gate isn't hard.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 14:33

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

*cough**cough*

Is somebody going to reply to my suggestion?

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 14:49

Trats-Romra

@U77654

Sorry. I was answering Shinobi when you sniped me.
I'm reading your wall of text. I want to give my opinion about your suggestion.

EDIT:
I'm a bit busy now. I will answer later.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 15:19

Trats-Romra

@U77654

EDIT: Will nobody say something?

Just my opinion.

However, the mineral count should go like this:
T1- 3 crystals for full mission
T2- 5 crystals for full mission
T3- 8 crystals for full mission

I don't agree. The missions spawn minerals. Reduce the cost won't be a good thing.

Missions will not require minerals if you have unlocked the mission AND you haven't completed it. The daily presteige missions, the talking with Bechamel/Kozma/Hahn, and the HoH missions will never require minerals.

Yes, talking missions and HoH don't need minerals because don't involve runs on clockworks. But daily prestige missions throw you where you want to go. It shouldn't have no fee.

Missions will not spawn minerals
No. Missions give minerals like any clockworks' levels. For this reason, I let the cost that way. Because mission occur on the clockworks.

If a knight has a Mineral Pass but the rest of the group doesn't, the rest of the group must pay the minerals, but if minerals aren't paid, then the knight with the Mineral pass can continue, and any knight that unlocked the mission and hasn't completed it yet. Once again, a knight with a Mineral Pass in a group in a mission will have minerals spawn, and anyone, Mineral Pass or not, can pick them up, and they will be shared like normal.

I think the Mineral Pass could just reduce the amount of minerals needed. It would work better. Reduce 2 minerals for each different mineral needed could be enough. When playing solo, Mineral Pass makes the mission's gate free.
When a group of knights put all the minerals needed, the gate becomes activate for each member for 2 hours. So, if a knight that already has the gate active enter in a group that don't have the gate active to him, the knight can help out giving minerals to active it for the others. When he/she do it, his/her counter is refreshed.

Yes. Trats-Romra agrees.

This thread deserves the title of Suggestion of the Month!!

Thanks!

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 16:24

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Regarding mineral drops in missions, I halfway agree with your idea though, and I have a suggestion later on in this post about it.

For the daily presteige levels, the reason why I suggested it to not have mineral requirements is because the mission can only be played once (yopo) for the week. But if you want mineral fees for those missions, the required amount could be reduced.

I hate to say that I don't understand the paragraph about a knight with a Mineral Pass with a group not with MPs, but tell me if I missed something.
-A lone knight with a MP can enter missions with no fee
-A group of knights that all have MPs can enter missions with no fee
-If one knight in a group has a MP, the fee is reduced by two minerals per player with a MP (until all have MPs)
-Some gate timer that if you are there when all of the minerals are deposited, you can enter the mission for the next two hours

Now we go to our next issue: what types of minerals (DM, Crim, Moonstone, Valestone, Lumi) will be required for each mission. While saying that Fiend missions need DMs and Crims aren't too broad, what about missions that have like Ice and Fiend, since the required Crim from Fiends counter the Ice theme? Would there be missions that I need to pay four types of minerals for certain missions? You might ask why I ask the latter question, and my answer is that it could tangle with my mentiomed suggestion that comes...

...now. Anyways, the required minerals for missions may not be dropped in said mission. For example, if FSC requires Dark Matter and Crimsonite, then the mission will only drop Luminite, Moonstone, and Valestone. This would be so that playing the mission several times could encourage players to do other missions.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 07:57

#10

Trats-Romra

@U77654

I'm a bit busy on these days. Wait for one answer per day.
I'm glad that you are giving good and interesting points. Apparentaly, you are the unique interested on this thread.

Ok, to the answer.

Regarding mineral drops in missions, I halfway agree with your idea though, and I have a suggestion later on in this post about it.
Maybe the cost could be 4, 8 and 12(T1, T2 and T3) instead of 5, 10, 15.

Now the issue pointed out. Some missions envolves purely a family and other a status. For example, FSC was indicated on arcade as Fire-themed level. RJP was indicated as Jelly-themed level. The mission could be based on it. If i'm not wrong, the mission Sewer Stash have all levels with poison. And have a mix of fiend and gremlin levels. So the mission would be a poison themed-level. So it would need just Valest and DM.
Another way to solve this is let the OOO mark the theme of the mission. If they mark the Sewer Stash as gremlin level, it'll require Crim and Moonst. If they mark as a poison level, it'll require Valest and DM.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 09:44

#11

Trats-Romra

Thanks Valorai and Flame-Shinobi for support and interest on this idea. Sorry for saying that just U77654 is interested.
The same for who is reading. Certainly some already read my thread, but just don't have nothing to discuss. Thanks for reading my idea.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:25

#12

Dividedfish

I agree

I love the idea of having to pay minerals, because your theory/facts in essence are true - there are/were predetermined courses based on minerals thrown into gates. The only thing I find a problem though is I don't think a Mineral Pass would be such a good idea since you can easily obtain minerals as is.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:48

#13

Trats-Romra

@Dividedfish

I think the U77654 thought on Mineral Pass, because since the forge update the P2P players were severly disadvantaged. A Mineral Pass could favor the P2P players grating better acess to missions, since U77654 stated "Once this happens, Radiants can drop on D26 with no arguments".

Sat, 02/22/2014 - 14:55

#14

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Bump.

I agree with everything on your last post.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 17:56

#15

Trats-Romra

By the way, i just need to

By the way, i just need to wait more opinions.
Thanks U77654 for sharing your ideas. I'll add the new details to the topic.
Thanks for Valorai, Flame-Shinobi, Dividedfish and U77654 for supporting and bumping this thread. And giving your opinions.

EDIT: New details added.
EDIT 2: Opinions? Discussions? Ideas? Anybody out there?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 23:29

#16

Tedme

Me!

I'm out there. I've been having a similar idea for a while, and I love this. Straight up +1

...

Tho, I do agree. I could see a massive exodus of veterans that just wanna farm Vana...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 03:32

#17

Pyromoon

No...

This is a step in a backwards direction, basically going back to where elevators use to charge 10 CE per run. You all may support this, but do you really want it even more difficult to run missions as it is? What you need is something to change the types without the use of crystals, more like little tokens inside crystals after refining them into food, or something of the sort. Also that system was removed ages ago after the pets were released, now Crystals are nothing more than petfood, and expensive pet food at that...

So go ahead... take a step back in the wrong direction, what I think you need to do, is stop thinking about crystals, and start thinking of a new source. Besides I like the clockworks being random, you would be forced to face your enemy in unfamiliar territory, and be forced to adapt to the changes that come before you.

Onemore thing... Them removing the elevator energy requirement was the best thing that has ever come to SK, but I'm sure that most of here would agree that the new system for heating your weapons suck, which is probably why most of you here are agreeing to this idea. Yes it is a great idea but it is backwards, if you want to complain about heating your weapons, then complain about the heating system, dont just decide to pen a price tag on the elevators again, hell i certainly dont want to go back to the old system, but I would like to see it go back to the time just before the radiant crystal nerf drop rate...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:48

#18

Trats-Romra

@Tedme
Thanks for supporting.

@Pyromoon
Thanks for giving your opinion.

This is a step in a backwards direction, basically going back to where elevators use to charge 10 CE per run.
Not totally. You can see that Minerals will can be farmable on Arcade, since Arcade has no cost to going on it, accordingly with my idea. This is like giving a way to knights get energy doing Arcade on the old system.

You all may support this, but do you really want it even more difficult to run missions as it is?
It's not difficult to run missions. You just enter and go to elevator and the mission begin. But with the new system, that I'm proposing, knights will make their way to do missions in a group, because the cost of a mission's GATE is SHARED. And on the missions they get more minerals. As they go in a group, the mission will be more easy. And the gate is active for two hours for every party member. So, if you want to try it again, you just repeat it.

What you need is something to change the types without the use of crystals, more like little tokens inside crystals after refining them into food, or something of the sort.
So, I'll make food just to got a token and to activate a gate? If I have no Minerals? I'll need to go to Arcade, right? And how much tokens I need to active a gate? How much tokens I can get when crafting food? Sorry if it sounded sarcastic. Tokens could be a option, but I thought on Minerals, because it have a logic. You use minerals to influence the clockworks, as arcade used to.

... now Crystals are nothing more than petfood, and expensive pet food at that...
Exactly. Because of this I made the cost shared. Because If you have a Drakon and I have a Seraphnxy and we need to go in a mission that needs Crimsonite, I put it for you. In other words, it motivate people to go in a party.

So go ahead... take a step back in the wrong direction
C'mon guy, don't say it. You are discussing a idea not implementing it. It isn't like "if you do it, you don't have a way to return". I do mistakes, people do mistakes. Don't need to act on this way. Seriously, your opinion makes me pysched, because it's more interesting than just "No. I don't like your idea. /leaves of the game". And i want to discuss my idea.

... is stop thinking about crystals, and start thinking of a new source.
I don't like to make multiple new sources. For example(in a imaginary scenario), to do missions, i need a ton of papers. To food my pet, i need only crafted food. To do coliseum, I have to do a test that requires a specific material that can be bought for candies by Borla(new NPC). It makes me angry. I particularly feel it from MapleStory. You have so many ways to buff yourself. I'm glad that this game have just trinkets and UVs to it.

Besides I like the clockworks being random, you would be forced to face your enemy in unfamiliar territory, and be forced to adapt to the changes that come before you.
You are forced to face your enemy in unfamiliar territory always on missions, in a newbie perspective. But worse. Because people avoid parties, because they need to wait for too much time. So, normally you go alone and you know that fiends can be very annoyable. So, I suppose that with this system, people will try to find parties, will look more on party finder and etc. And group of players against fiends is better than one player against fiends.

... but I'm sure that most of here would agree that the new system for heating your weapons suck, which is probably why most of you here are agreeing to this idea ...
I really don't know the others, but when I came up with this idea, I was more worried with Arcade and a thing that I see as a issue. Newbies don't know the arcade. They don't know where to find it. And frequently find in a group 1 or 2, or 3 when a miracle happens. People don't found parties on beggining, so they don't search parties later and when they try to found one, they see that people take to much time to enter. So they keep going alone, except when doing a boss.
People don't play this game together, go it alone, except on Vanaduke.

I hope that you back to this topic to discuss more.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 18:13

#19

Rage-Pillows

I kinda like it and I kinda

I kinda like it and I kinda hate it. It's innovative.

The majority of stages have you going out of your way to find minerals. This gives a person more incentive to backtrack so far back. I discourage backtracking.

This idea discourages soloing if the fee of minerals is shared. I prefer soloing. In fact, I die faster in groups.

I will really hate it when my supply of minerals run out.

People who get invited and teleport midway through the level have to pay nothing.

There's also this idea that it is a sincere mineral drain if you want to do a lot of floors. I like going to depth 28, but it's already a time investment to get there because I always have to start at depth 18. Adding a mineral investment is just giving me another obstacle.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 22:07

#20

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

@Pillows

"I discourage backtracking."
Take a guess on how many players backtrack to the JK mission before unlocking RT. Come on, guess.

"The idea discourages soloing"
This would encourage knights to travel in groups on missions.

"I will really hate it when my supply of minerals run out."
Everybody runs out of crowns. Everybody runs out of CE. Everybody runs out of materials. Of course running out of minerals wouldn't be any different.

"People who get invited and teleport midway through the level have to pay nothing."
The price to enter a mission for one guy is the same for four guys. Why would joining midway through be dangerous?

*last paragraph*
There is no Mission that goes from D18-28, but if you are refering to the Arcade, well, the Arcade doesn't require minerals. Read the posts again.

Sat, 03/01/2014 - 18:03

#21

Rage-Pillows

@Usevnsevnsixfivfor That's

@Usevnsevnsixfivfor

That's not the point I'm making. Do you know how the dungeon branches off into two parts? Back then when CE was necessary to play through a floor, many people obviously backtracked because every crown counts if you wanted to play more. So if you saw the button and remembered you skipped a branch, you and your friends took forever to go back, break boxes, and come back to the button. My playstyle completely ignores the branch path, because I just don't like backtracking. It's slow, you just walk everywhere, and that's not progress.

There's a joy to soloing you know. You get to focus on the mob. This is great for bombers. And this is great for everyone else who wants a bit more challenge. Groups don't allow this.

CE was a sincere showstopper if you wanted to play longer. This is not "buying a weapon or item" to proceed. That would suck and people hated having to go to the HoH. This is a tax. While it might help on the surplus of minerals, once the surplus of minerals is gone, you're forced to play parts that you may not necessarily want to play in order to get to the part you want. This is like CE. Maybe you weren't around with the old energy system (don't take offense, I don't really know if you were), but while the old energy system does have many advantages (like adding strategic use to what you have), people were basically getting punished to play longer than the old energy system allowed you to.

This point of mine wasn't really a strong point, but this is the argument. Minerals are being treated to the elevator. If you join midway, you skip this fee. Hence, the people who paid for the elevator will feel like they could've skipped it by joining. Although if you straight on attach a fee to joining, this raises the point earlier which discourages group play. Back then, people paid CE to join. People are less inclined to join you if they have to pay a fee.

For the last paragraph... Ugh. I'm sick of typing. tl;dr Free elevators just allow for more freedom in SK.

Wed, 03/05/2014 - 18:15

#22

Trats-Romra

@U77654Thanks for answering

@U77654
Thanks for answering for me. Unwittingly, you have made Pillows to show him/her opinion in a better way.

@Rage-Pillows
Thanks for giving your opinion. I see your point. Not everyone is equal and others prefer to just solo.
So I saw a flaw on my idea: It don't motives group play, it force group play, because people seems forced by the cost of elevators. What automatically discorauges solo.
For while, I'm trying to figure out what could help, but I already have some ideas:

The backtrack problem: the minimap indicate where the minerals are.
The discoraugement to solo: reduce the cost of mineral when party is totally locked. After the lobby, you can't modify the configs.
The supply of minerals problem: I don't know if it's totally problem. You know, the minerals don't have so many use so I imagine you have some stocked. Could you show it as a really problem?
The people teleport midway: After the lobby, the party can't receive joins, but a friend can ask via /tell and you invite him to come.

I don't know if they are good solutions, but I'm trying to figure out something that works well.

EDIT: some grammar errors revised.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 08:20

#23

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Shieldbump

Tue, 03/04/2014 - 21:07

#24

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Bump

Wed, 03/05/2014 - 01:57

#25

Fangel

You just like this idea, don't you U77654?

Neat idea. I'm all for getting players into the arcade and out of the missions. Gameplay would not depend on minerals, but rather mission gates would. Seeing as the clockworks themselves are random, I believe that using minerals to manipulate the clockworks for specific mission purposes goes with the current lore.
Perhaps players could pool in the necessary minerals in the mission lobby and set the gates that way. Danger and prestige missions could be manipulated in the same way.

Wed, 03/05/2014 - 05:12

#26

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

That's a nice idea, but if that happens, the level designers would have to make four new missions for the status combos. For Danger Missions, the Grinchlin Assult mission could be added AND changed so that 1) all enemies drop money, 2) the boxes are replaced with normal red boxes, 3) Grinchlin enemies become normal enemies. Then whichever single mineral type is deposited the most, that DM opens, with a DM being coded to a mineral type. These deposits could count towards the achievements in the future.

Wed, 03/05/2014 - 11:00

#27

Fangel

Not quite my vision but it's not bad either

I guess I wasn't clear, but that's what I get for making posts at one in the morning. My thoughts were that the danger mission and prestige missions would still cycle like they currently do, but to enter the mission you would need the appropriate minerals (for heart of ice, you need ice, fiend, and beast mineral combinations) so that the elevator navigates to the correct floor. We know the minerals can affect the clockworks from previous lore of the arcade, so there's no real plot hole here.

Example of idea: player starts a lobby for compound 42. It's open to all, and one of their friends join from an invite. The clockworks gate is greyed out, and if they step on it, will take them to haven. There is a mineral deposit slot next to the elevator. The party leader has everything except moonstone for the level. They put the minerals in, and the elevator changes appearance to a white gear and a white background. The friend has moonstone, and puts some into the deposit. The gate changes to a pink gear with a green background! The elevator will now take players to the compound. The party locks, and the mission begins.

I hope that doesn't make things more confusing, but it's how I see this method working.

Wed, 03/05/2014 - 16:01

#28

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Mkay. But the idea I thought you said could be really cool. Sure it's exploitable, but who really cares? As for mineral combinations for DMs, that wouldn't work too well. All the normal missions would be assigned "Fiend" only or "Shock" only, never both. Doing it this way, GitM=shock, HoI=freeze, C42=poison, LoA=undead (or fire for the sake of OCD. Maybe it relates to Vanaduke). Not too bad of a suggestion.

Wed, 03/05/2014 - 18:33

#29

Trats-Romra

@U77654
Thanks for bumping and answering while I'm off.

@Fangel
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I admit that I share similarly to what you thought:
-Two slots of minerals on the side of mission's gate.
-While not paid, the symbols gate have a symbol of locked, like of the core.
-And the party configurations before and after the mission's lobby, but allowing inviting people after the lobby.
It's how I see this working.

EDIT:
I added the ideas that I proposed to Rage-Pillows here
I think that them might work well.

I'm editing on sequence and indicating the changes, because it shows how the idea grew with the time, on my opinion.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:00

#30

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Bump.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 18:05

#31

Fehzor

I'm all for this... I think you're being too lenient on the prices, as this would allow players to play nothing but the arcade gates still, and the objective should be to force them out of the grind into the other grind for a while every so often. I'm thinking something like-

For Rank missions(just the missions that have lobby)
Tier 1 - 15 minerals per person
Tier 2 - 35 minerals per person
Tier 3 - 70 minerals per person

For Prestige missions(just the missions that have lobby)
Tier 1 - 5 minerals per person
Tier 2 - 15 minerals per person
Tier 3 - 20 minerals per person

Additional people could join after the party room for (# of levels complete / total levels) * mission cost. So if I wanted to join D27 of FSC, I'd only need to pay 2/5s of 50 = 20 minerals.

Plus it could easily take the correct minerals to build that area, and tutorialize gate building that way. Oh, and make the mineral pass only work on levels you've already done. This will make it less pay to win.

All in all, one of the better suggestions I've seen. Good luck on getting it in and remember to bump it above the "GIVE HORSE" threads often.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 19:45

#32

Trats-Romra

@Fehzor

70 minerals per person is in a way too much. Not everyone are Vanguards and people have pets. And minerals isn't something magical to get. It's the why I don't make big costs and make it shared.
Maybe it's very cheap, but I don't want missions to be hard to get acess.
I'm not closing the topic. Just disagreeing with what you said.

Additional people could join after the party room for (# of levels complete / total levels) * mission cost. So if I wanted to join D27 of FSC, I'd only need to pay 2/5s of 50 = 20 minerals.
Or increase 2 minerals for which level completed.

Oh, and make the mineral pass only work on levels you've already done. This will make it less pay to win.
I don't see big nerf here, but I can't say the same for U77654. I'll leave it to him.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 14:19

#33

Fehzor

Currently, I feel that this wouldn't do anything huge to the game.. especially with the cost of minerals being so incredibly low.

Going by the prices on the auction house, which are as good as any:
The cheapest power star costs 2,900 crowns.
The cheapest flame soul (5* material) costs 666 crowns.

2,900 crowns = 2 Flame Soul + 25 Crimsonite
2,900 - 2 (666) = 567 = 25 crimsonite

1 crimsonite = 22.68 crowns

You propose an entry fee to FSC that takes around 272 crowns worth of effort to pay. The only limiting factor- that you would have to find and gather the requisite minerals beforehand is easily negated by the fact that within FSC the player finds several minerals on each depth-- easily enough to pay back the cost for another visit to that mission or others.

This does not limit progress and force the major focus of the game onto the arcade as much as it limits leveling one's battle sprite. Raising the prices forces players to compromise in the following manner:

0. If I have minerals and am happy with my current set of gear and skill, I should go on to the next level until I am not happy.
1. Otherwise:
1a. If I do not have the minerals. I must find them in the arcade.
1b. If I do not have the necessary skill to pass the mission ahead of me. I must practice and level up my gear-- which requires I dump things into the battle sprite.
2. When these are complete, I should go to the missions for re-evaluation.

The flip side to this is mission farming, which we should aim to slow so as to provide fair prices for newer players, as well as to somewhat counter-intuitively prevent them from interacting deeply with the few elite players that they would otherwise inevitably encounter when flailing to complete a mission. If I am currently in need of a party to beat the last boss, I'll likely end up with 3 elite players that can do anything with their blitz needles, and it kills the challenge of beating the boss for the most part.

Farming existed before missions did, and it will continue to exist after this, no matter what precautions are placed against it. However, the challenges provided for us would be better separated form the farming culture and mentality that occur within the game.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 18:13

#34

Trats-Romra

@Fehzor

Maybe you not saw it, or maybe you saw. That is from the EDIT 2:
The required minerals for missions rarely drop in said mission. For example, if FSC requires Dark Matter and Crimsonite, then the mission will drop Luminite, Moonstone, and Valestone and rarely Dark Matter and Crimsonite. This would be so that playing the mission several times could encourage players to do other missions.

I have to admit that is hard to reply, because you launch a bunch of good thoughts.
OK. I admit that price could be increased. But the problem is the "cost per person": Beyond motivating people go to Arcade, I want that people join more on parties. I don't want that SK become like other games that you can do everything on solo or solo is simply a better option. I see the "cost per person" allowing this.

But not everyone have good connection or is capable to play on party!
There's specific cost to solo for it.

Other problem: People have pets. I don't want to force someone to pay the FSC and food for your Drakon. More one reason to share the cost. So a guy with a Seraphnxy or Maskeraith can put Crim for the player with a Drakon. And leveling Battle Sprites is already a pain. I don't want to make it even more.

Farm will always exist. I comprehend it. But a cost per person can't be something big on this way. And even if it were more cheap, they won't see a party as a good thing.
So, if you take the cost you are proposing and make it shared, I think will be a good relief for a lot of people.

Making the cost shared causes a different vision to the people. Cost shared makes people think that one need the help of the other to join a mission. Separate cost makes people think that the party are just people joining togheter.

TL DR; Price should be increased. Farm always will exist. But I don't want cost per person. I want people putting minerals together, helping each other.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 13:17

#35

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

@Fehzor

1) Lists start with 1, not 0. It bugs me whenever you do that.
2) Minerals bind automatically after obtaining them, so they don't cost anything other than time and skill, and partially luck, which none of those are cr. While you could be FSC spamming with that time and skill, that wouldn't mean you get the correct minerals to replay the mission.
3) 70 minerals to enter a mission... do you want us to do missions or not? This system isn't to prevent repeating missions, but to prevent not using the Arcade. Put it back to original prices.
4) If you want to find the cost of something, use average prices instead of the lowest recorded.
5) We are not being too leaniant on prices. Maybe you have a vault of a bajillion minerals of each type, but I am a Vanguard and can barely reach the thousands digit of total minerals.
6) Look at the mission description for the JK mission. It says to get a squad of experienced knights. Do you think said experienced knights would be fresh from the Camp with full Cobalt?

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 13:04

#36

Trats-Romra

Bump

Mon, 03/17/2014 - 07:24

#37

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Bump

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 16:03

#38

Trats-Romra

Bump

I won't do it again until someone post a reply on my thread.

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 09:47

#39

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

/reply

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:23

#40

Eneraxion

Use for "useless" minerals?

A cool idea. I won't necro posts all that often, but I'll start off with an exception.

What about Valestone and Moonstone? Valestone and Moonstone (Solo players can use "Play Solo" and pay a small fraction of minerals, but they are locked in "Play Solo" mode.) This way, players that are more skilled and able to fend off the clockworks on their own are rewarded, the pets still get fed because it doesn't use Crimsonite, Luminite, or Dark Matter, and finally, there is a use for those blue and green minerals that have been rotting in your inventory.

Since the minerals in question won't be used in all that many circumstances other than missions, let's up the prices.
Tier 1 Mission: 7 Valestone
Tier 2 Mission: 10 Valestone
Tier 3 Mission: 15 Valestone

Regular Prestige Mission: 10 Moonstone
Danger Prestige Mission: 25 Moonstone (DANGER!)

(Joining a group midway won't cost anything because if you joined the group midway, you won't get the mission clear credit anyway, or at least I think that's how it works.)

These would be the prices for the entire mission, not 1 floor.

(This is my first post. Sorry, but don't expect anything very good in this suggestion)

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:26

#41

Trats-Romra

@Eneraxion

Wow! Thanks!
I don't expected that anyone would found my thread after it gone deep on suggestions.

Replying to your suggestion:
What about Valestone and Moonstone? Valestone and Moonstone (Solo players can use "Play Solo" and pay a small fraction of minerals, but they are locked in "Play Solo" mode.)
I already considered th solo on this part:
"When party fully locked and soloing(rank or prestige)
T1 - 2 minerals
T2 - 3 minerals
T3 - 4 minerals"
An no. I'll not specify it to Valestone and Moonstone. I'll explain later "why".

(Joining a group midway won't cost anything because if you joined the group midway, you won't get the mission clear credit anyway, or at least I think that's how it works.)

These would be the prices for the entire mission, not 1 floor.
Yes, it works on this way.

Now, the question "Why not just Valestone and Moonstone?"
Simple. In addition to atracting more newbies to arcade, I want to motivate people to play on parties. Constantly people play solo because it's better. So, with that prices, people would need each other to activate gate. Parties will be a better option, because you can share the cost and the minerals. Just like I explained to Pyromoon: "If you have a Drakon and I have a Seraphnxy and we need to go in a mission that needs Crimsonite, I put it for you. In other words, it motivate people to go in a party".
A important part of the MMOs is the multiplayer part and this is what I'm trying to point too with my suggestion ('cause there's the arcade part too :P).

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Activating missions' gates with minerals