Spiral Knights - Weapons and Weapon lines ideas (actually just weapon lines; a Lance/Spear and Throwing Bombs)

Weapons and Weapon lines ideas (actually just weapon lines; a Lance/Spear and Throwing Bombs)

3 replies [Last post]

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 23:05

Tedme

These are ideas that I, and, for the most part, OTHERS have posted. Improved by me and others. Moving on to the actual suggestions....

Lance/Spear:

I've seen many for these and saw Nick say that they've been thinking about these for a while. This is my thought on making them their own weapon line, without making them two-handed, too strong, etc.

My idea is a one-handed weapon (spears held in the middle, lances by a handle) that dishes out quick damage to enemies nearby, but still with a little reach. The 5* ones would probably reach 3" squares at most. They would deal comparable damage to swords (probably lower), and be combo only, mostly so that they are different then swords, but also because of how massive of damage it would be.

They would have a combo attack of 4; two stabs, a sideways slash, finishing with a downward slam similar to Troika. The first stab would move the character slightly forward, but not a lot. The other attacks, not really at all. Also, there would be only a very little pause between combos. I did say quick...

So, the "Obvious" problem is; too speedy. You can stand there and spam. Why no Charge? The idea of "standing there and spamming" is to be perfect hard offence vs direct attack. Ranged attacks and attacks from the side harm very quickly. No charge is explained; it makes it different, and would make it too heavy damage, if you can enter can run around and charge. The idea is lots of damage quickly, leaves you vulnerable. This is of course, just how they work as a general rule. Cobalt swords are different then Flourishes.

To be short: quick, combo only weapons. No charge. No movement, really.

Throwing bombs:

This is one I honestly haven't seen, not that it probably isn't out there. The idea is that swords are melee, combo, focused weapons. Guns are long ranged, focused weapons. Bombs are close in, high damage, AoE weapons. What about ranged AoE? It can be balanced, probably not by my, but here is my attempt.

This weapon looks like a normal bomb, probably a bit small, though. It is charge only, like bombs, and on attack is thrown, like a pot, at a group of enemies. It lands after a certain distance, and blows up like a bomb. Has much lower damage then bombs, and probably works closer to the Gremlin Demos bomb throwing attack then anything. Probably a line of weapons that works like that.

So, the "Obvious" problem is; too high damage. You can easily spam. It's like the new Polaris. Not quiet. The bombs do take time to go off, for one, and time to land. Instead of the normal timing of a bomber, you have to deal with landing and explosion time. Also, I did say lower damage then bombs. Lastly, charge only, remember? Even if it is spamable, it would make a use for charge time reduc. This is of course, just how they work as a general rule. Cobalt swords are different then Flourishes.

To be short: Bombs for use at a range. They are to bombs, what guns are to swords.

Conclusion

I highly doubt that these are perfect or that they'll enter the game. I'm hopeful that one day both will, but find it unlikely. If you see problems, reply. But please, also help me solve them, not just "Too OP, nub. Leave the forums now." With that said, thank you for reading!

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 23:42

Janeks

nice +1

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 23:47

Whitechocolatechip

Alright, I'll bite. Spears

Alright, I'll bite.

Spears seem a tad redundant, perhaps, compared to swords. No charge is a good touch I guess and the range and holding still isn't bad either, but it's basically halfway between a gun and a sword, accomplishing both jobs with more inferiority. Less range and mobility vs gun, less damage and etc than a sword... so it leaves me feeling that a whole new line and thought process probably isn't the way to go. You could just get some larger reach or spear-like weapons out of swords. Heck, my snarby stick is pretty lunge-tacular and uses large strikes. My main complaint with a spear would be the kind of DPS capability of a sword with more range. Range can single-handedly win wars, especially if you can keep nailing your opponent and keep them locked. Finally I think their stature would be incredibly odd considering the suggested range and whatnot... would either have pretty roids range relative to drawn size or crazy draw size compared to character.

Throwing bombs I think somewhat undermine what bombs are made to do: defend. They're meant for infighting you can do on the move to hit large vollies of targets at once. Throwing bombs would prove less effective simply because they aren't aiming for the player, so the crowing would be worse. The spam factor kinda scares me, honestly. People can do some pretty atrocious stuff with bomb knockback and reckless placement, so being able to throw lots of bombs longer range would just throw everything into chaos, in the picture I get of this. While I don't think your analysis is particularly wrong with the 3 families, I think they break down more into Guns being ranged harassment. Something you could use to be on the move and wear down your targets from a safer distance. Swords tend to be your DPS weapons, made to kill targets quickly and mutilate anything caught in their blunt, short ranged path. Bombs on the other hand are made for vs crowd and support roles, to cause damage up close or invoke effects that makes the crowd easier to manage, and these 3 families fulfill 3 class-like roles in how they play into a complete team.

I'm not judge jury and executioner, but I think these would definitely prove imbalanced. PVP for these would be especially non-viable, the more I think about it. Listen to what others have to say on this as well.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:15

Tedme

I like the way you think, doctor sir.

Good, problems to solve.

I saw what you were saying about the swords vs lances. The "analysis" was actually something Nick said. If I can find the link, I'll edit it into here. Anyways, the point of removing charge and no movement was to make a fast-paced, skill-based (rhymed) weapon. The damage and reach are yes, slightly a combination of the gun and sword, and yes, I see what you mean, but there are monsters this won't work against. Lastly, the only attack that isn't to precisely aimed forward is the slash, so it'll be hard to hit. Basically, I'm seeing wolvers, devilites, All Turrets, and anything that can dodge/attack at a range being a challenge. I'm not saying that it doesn't need to be improved, I'm kinda trying to defend it where it is.

I also understand that bombs are for defense. Bombs can also be used as DPS. This is, as I stated, what a gun is to swords as compared to bombs. So yes, it could undermine bombs, but only if it is too high damage. I think that people wouldn't use it as often as bombs, or maybe just as much. And "throwing lots of bombs" wouldn't work unless OOO makes some crazy short charge time ones, and CTR is used... I mean, even if they do place many, probably, like swords to guns, they wouldn't have as much knockback. I picture these as more of heavy DPS, using charge time. It could easily be unbalanced, but if done right, not necessarily.

Lastly, I see what you mean about bombs swords and guns being the "classes" so to speak, defending a team, ranged support, and primary melee. But what I'm thinking is why not more? Because, let's be honest (at the risk of repeating a certain phone commercial), more is more.

EDIT and yes, a spear/lance would look rather odd, but if we can hold a Leviathan or a Troika....

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Weapons and Weapon lines ideas (actually just weapon lines; a Lance/Spear and Throwing Bombs)