Spiral Knights - Can new knights be used for cheaper 3* crafts by using orbs from missions?

Can new knights be used for cheaper 3* crafts by using orbs from missions?

28 replies [Last post]

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 18:06

Krakob

Progressing to the 3* HoH merely requires playing missions and moving on. The 2* HoH can be beaten with the Cobalt set you're given. Upon completing the last few missions before the 3* HoH, you get 8 Advanced Orbs of Alchemy. Those would otherwise cost 533 energy to purchase, which is a considerable amount.

So, the idea is that you make a new knight and bring it to and complete those missions as fast as possible. If you can do it faster than you can grind 533 E on your main, you're profiting.

Of course, this method would have some problems. For one, recipes would not be usable several times as you have to make a new knight each time you want orbs. Unless you find orbs on the new knights, you'd have to purchase one extra orb for every new knight to be able to do three crafts instead of two and leaving the knight with two spare orbs.

I'm gonna try and see how fast I can get a knight to these orbs some day, sooner or later.
Thoughts?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 18:11

Bitsbee

Already did it for my Arc Razor.

It took me about 4 hours to get the Advanced Orbs of Alchemy needed to Craft it.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 18:51

Halandin

I imagine that 4 hours of

I imagine that 4 hours of grinding tier 2 or appropriate missions for those orbs would have netted more profit, no?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 19:08

Glacies

I'd be willing to actually try this with a timer though and I'd be willing to let you know of exact times including loading, dying, etc.

@Halandin: It really depends on everything:

The most profitable mission is currently The King of Ashes, and based on the Lancer Knightz data page, you net an average of 9390 Crowns per run:

-9390 Crowns on Average along with 3,000 from the Tokens so 12,390 per run.
-Each run is around 30-60 minutes which varies on various factors based on competence of your party, etc.
-This means that if every run you did would net you 49,560 Crowns - 99,120 Crowns (Assuming every run is 30 Minutes<)

If you were to do the former, at the rate of 9,000/100CE, your outcome would be: 47,970 for 533CE which running FSC even at 1 hour per run is enough to easily net you the CE you need along with some.

So unless you are able to get to the point of finishing and getting you 8 Orbs of Alchemy within about 1 Hour, King of Ashes is better once again.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 20:09

Bitsbee

@Halandin

I don't remember how much Crowns I got exactly, but I do know it was enough to cover the Craft cost. The only thing I needed help from my Main Account were the Materials. After I crafted the Arc Razor, I sold everything the Alt had to a Vendor & Mailed the Crowns to this Account. I only did it, because the Arc Razor looks sweet on Bitsbee & I was having an Advanced Orb of Alchemy drought on my Main. I could've just dipped into my savings & bought the Orbs off the Supply Depot, but...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 20:27

Trats-Romra

Hey guys, Krakob is talking about the new knights. The knights that doesn't have acess to FSC.

@Krakob
I already thought on it. Create Knight, make 3* stuff, delete the knight and repeat.
It could just get boring, because, you know, this is grinding.
But, yeah it works.
I just think this is not good in the long run, because could be technically harmful.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:26

Luigi-The-Silly

@Trats-Romra

eh its either that for grind vana. there really isnt any openended gameplay so grinding is the game.

OT: i dont know my average vana run time but id have to time it to find out how long it would take to grind the cr to buy the pieces

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:12

Krakob

Arenas are pretty terrific for getting Advanced Orbs but even if you do those (which are probably the best for it), I don't think you'll find an orb more often than an average of every other arena or so. You can't always run arenas, though. Some are located a bit down in the stratum, and some are random or in a gate cycle you don't necessarily get to in time.

@Glacies
Feel free to try it. I know I will. I think the most realistic timing you could do would be to simply let the game time it for you. Make the knight and go go go. When you've gotten the orbs, log off and check the time on the log in screen.

Very good point regarding the FSC stuff. Speedrunning FSC on normal might be better, though. I still haven't gathered any good amount of data on that yet, sadly.

@Trats Romra
I'm talking about making alts. Anyone could do this, recruits and vanguards alike. The former category would probably not do quite as well, though. An experienced vanguard, on the other hand, should be able to speedrun through at a pretty good pace.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:26

Skepticraven

@Krakob

It might be even less than every other arena now.
If my new data can be trusted (only 1 orb/1SoL from green boxes so far), the drop rates from green boxes got nerfed.
I have a before update and a "last patch" summary, which seem to heavily disagree on the drop rates of orbs/SoLs from green boxes.

With the return of radiants, green boxes most likely got a nerf. It could be an unlucky streak for me, but if there was a nerf this alt-based strategy is possibly more practical than most people think.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:30

Krakob

I see, thanks for the input. Boxes undoubtedly seem worse than farming FSC, anyway.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:49

#10

Malignant-Manor

38 radiants cost 533 energy.

38 radiants cost 533 energy. That plus the crown difference will likely favor good FSC runs, but how many people are sick of FSC?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 16:25

#11

Flowchart

you could drag alts through rise or fall. Since the slime level and wolver den have fewer buttons you don't have to endanger them too much.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 17:45

#12

Fehzor

Wouldn't it just be faster to get a low paying job?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 19:50

#13

Magnum-Frost

-Generic Subject Line-

If you created 4 new knights and alt dragged 3 of them, you would get awesome amounts of orbs because they are mission rewards which aren't taken away for being dead before the final elevator.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:42

#14

Krakob

@Magnum-Frost

That's a very good point. You'd need four accounts, though. As I understand it, that requires one account that has spent money because you're only allowed to have three free accounts. The requirements on your PC wouldn't be too low, either.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 19:47

#15

Fehzor

Because you know. The support team is going to examine in depth your account to make sure that you've paid your dues in order to alt drag your way to victory. And even if they did- is buying all of 2-3 dollars of energy that big of a deal?

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 01:24

#16

Krakob

Not really, but it's bothersome enough when you don't have much money or the ability to make a transaction yourself.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 20:05

#17

Finale-Flare

This is possibly the worst

This is possibly the worst way of making 3* gear. Extremely inefficient and backwards progressive. Heres why:

You get 6 adv. Orbs at 6-2. Lets assume it takes 2 hours to make it there ( 2 hours MINIMUM because of going through smarb and all the other missions. 4 hours would be a better estimate for avg. Player, 3 for an alt maker. )

So 2 hours to get 6 orbs. And a few recipes too.

Meanwhile, you could just do FSC 4 times and earn 32k net + 8k from materials.

Net 40k.

That is 6 orbs right there, not to mention 3 more 3* recipes. You also get radiants from the run, and 12k in token potential value (not immediate, but the tokens are worth1k each when you sell 30 the typical way).

If you really hate FSC that much, then wasting time making alts to craft is the best way.

If you want to use time more wisely, FSC. And remember, FSC is more efficient that the fastest possible time to get to 5-2.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 20:09

#18

Finale-Flare

I would like to add that FSC

I would like to add that FSC can be done in 27 minutes consistently while netting 8-8.5k crowns per run.

You just neeed chaos, 2 man party, brandishes, and blitzes.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 20:33

#19

Skepticraven

@Two-Step

You think that FSC is still the best farming method?

/laugh

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 22:39

#20

Wavara

Jelly Jamm is my new MLP, get over it.

@Skepticraven
Care to share and tell us which one is the best method, then? I could really use that info.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 02:17

#21

Krakob

@Two Step

You're somewhat off. The missions give you 8 orbs in total. Using several characters would yield up to 32 orbs per go.
Maybe you forgot about RJP? It is indeed post-HoH but you can access it before passing the HoH.

As for running FSC, you seem to not mind it. Have you tried speedrunning it on normal difficulty? Unless you're in need of Radiants, it should be more effective.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 06:18

#22

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

is the data on speedrunning FSC up to date? you know, the anti-speedrun measures in charred court and such.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 07:06

#23

Krakob

If you're referring to my data, no. On the other hand, I never recorded any speedrunning data for FSC.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:06

#24

Skepticraven

@Wavara

Timed data I normally don't trust unless it is my own.
My FSC speedrun on elite is 35 minutes [ancient data - i've only done it twice since the forge update].
My IMF (RT) speedrun on elite is 15 minutes.
My GWW (snarby) speedrun on elite is 7 minutes.

Using Lancer Knightz's data, GWW is faster for me than FSC [by 12crn/min].
If you take a look at my arcade payout averages odd stratums aren't good. Even stratums are where the crowns are at. Any mission that starts on an even stratum and can be played fast is most likely better than FSC simply because there is too much walking and using water to take away time-efficiency in FSC.

The key part to take from this post [on topic] is that even/odd stratum idea. Orbs found on an odd stratum (1* and 3* orbs) are not worth farming, in my opinion [with the exception of arena-rich arcade gate].
Orbs found on an even stratum are worth farming. I buy my advanced orbs from the supply depot. I have plenty of elite orbs in preparation for the gunner update, that I got farming IMF. I've moved onto The Gauntlet for radiants [15 min per run speed atm].
It is a very interesting proposition to farm and use lower orbs via alts.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 14:41

#25

Halandin

Is there an easy way of

Is there an easy way of figuring out a mission's stratum? Just measure between HoHs?

I really need a boatload of elites, and some variety besides IMF and RJP for elites and FSC for radiants is nice. :D

Wed, 03/12/2014 - 10:13

#26

Krakob

@Halandin

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Stratum
Compare to where the mission takes place by opening the menu in the bottom left corner and opening

Wed, 03/12/2014 - 11:45

#27

Finale-Flare

Have not tried speedrunning

Have not tried speedrunning on normal, but I think the crowns per minute ratio would be less than the 400 gained from an elite quickrun

Wed, 03/12/2014 - 14:27

#28

Halandin

@Krakob: Thanks!

Search

Can new knights be used for cheaper 3* crafts by using orbs from missions?