Spiral Knights - Latisan's "Tier List" - Gear Ranked by Usefulness?

Latisan's "Tier List" - Gear Ranked by Usefulness?

26 replies [Last post]

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 09:59

Latisan-Sklay

http://www.sklayelite.com/arsenal/tierlist/

Hellooo world! How are the people of the internet today?

My "Tier List" for swords in just got published on the Skylark Elite website. The purpose of this project is to compare every piece of gear to others in its class, and to rank them by usefulness by my personal assessment. All the details are explained on the site.

What gear should new knights get right away? Which ones are worth skipping? All this, explanation of my personal bias and mindset while making the list, and more are on the site! Go check it out and refer your new Spiral-Knights-playing friends!

Read the introduction, then scroll down and read about SWORDS!

And then let me know what you think!
arsenal@sklayelite.com
1-678-322-7765

Thanks! Have a good one!

http://www.sklayelite.com/arsenal/tierlist/

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:29

Fehzor

Here are my rankings. I don't even have all of the armors/helms/shields (am missing the new celestic shield/many armors/many helms) so it would be somewhat inappropriate for me to rate them.

SWORDS
T3:

Combuster
Voltedge
Glacius
Acheron
Obsidian Edge
Sudaruska
Triglav
Divine Avenger
Faust (NOT 'gran')*
Ascended Calibur (NOT Levi)**
Dread Venom Striker***
Warmaster Rocket Hammer
Fearless Rigadoon****

T2:

Leviathan Blade**
Gran Faust*
Wild Hunting Blade
Final Flourish****
Barbarous Thorn Blade****
Fang of Vog

T1:

Winmillion
Furious Flamberg
Cold Iron Vanquisher

Sword footnotes:
*Faust has better charge time, and thus outclasses Gran Faust. Further, Gran Faust is only good because of its knockback due to being outclassed by acheron in all other regards, which Faust has just as well-- but with greatly increased ability to curse enemies.
**Due to heating restrictions, leviathan blade will almost never be worth heating, and it already isn't worth using over other swords. That said, its still one of the best options for bombers and gunners-- who would want to focus their radiants on heating additional guns ad infinitum. Since it relies on its charge to snipe and deal damage, the 4* version is a cheap, effective, and reliable means of having a side-sword when gunning.
***Dread venom striker is under-rated by many, though it can become one of the strongest weapons situationally-- except that the "big niche" that it fills is on literally every level: Boosted attack/Lowered Defenses OR anything not aggroing the wielder OR Maskeraith's Needles OR Frozen enemies that can't turn well OR shocked enemies that can't be pushed back well. All of these situations make it about as useful as having a brandish, but with normal damage to cover its lack of crowd control.
****Flourishes as a whole are wonderful weapons with a unique attack style, and that enough gets them a spot on the number one list... but there is a catch, as always-- brandishes are balanced with brandishes. Combuster/Voltedge/Glacius/Obsidian Edge roughly equal Acheron in terms of tradeoff, right? Acheron outdamages Final Flourish/Barbarous Thorn Blade against beasts, right? Therefore, Combuster/Acheron outclass the flourishes in terms of damage-- but in terms of utility, rigadoon is able to shine through by maintaining a unique attack pattern and providing a chance of status against grievers, one of the more important enemies to overcome.

GUNS:

T3:

Blitz Needle
Volcanic Pepperbox
Magma Driver
Storm Driver
Hail Driver
Umbra Driver
Supernova
Argent Peacemaker
Obsidian Carbine
Valiance

T2:

Plague Needle
Nova Driver*
Polaris
Neutralizer
Biohazard

T1:

Callahan**
Iron Slug
Sentenza***

Gunner Footnote
*Nova Driver is a good weapon, but the status effects on the other alchemers tend to produce many tricks that make the guns work better in the long run with other gear. E.G. Hail driver can repeatedly charge shot enemies when your team mates bring shiver; Storm Driver can be used to break mask's quills effectively
**Callahan is usable, but is outclassed by most other options-- I find it easier to fight fiends and beasts with alchemers/blitz needle, or even with valiance.
***Sentenza is outclassed entirely by Obsidian Carbine, especially due to how hindered heating/obtaining 5* gear is-- if I have to wait 6 months anyway, I might as well get the poisonous one.

BOMBS

T3:

Voltaic Tempest
Stagger Storm
Venom Veilor
Shivermist Buster
Ash of Agni
Radiant Sun Shards (Pre Nerf)
Shocking Salt Bomb (Post Nerf)
Dark Briar Barrage
Electron Vortex
Obsidian Crusher
Nitronome
Dark Retribution

T2:

Scintillating Sun Shards (Post Nerf)
Deadly Crystal Bomb
Deadly Shard Bomb
Irontech Bomb*

T1:

Deadly Dark Matter Bomb
Deadly Splinter Bomb
Graviton Vortex
Heavy Deconstructor
Big Angry Bomb
Irontech Destroyer

Bomb footnotes:
*Irontech bomb's blast radius is the same as Nitronome's. This makes it a great option for those seeking a bomb for knockback etc. that aren't wanting to heat/buff bombs very much.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:08

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Understand that Acheron is useful against Fiends. It's damage is so ludicrously high that you can kill them with relative ease using it. If Acheron isn't useful everywhere, then nothing is.

I'm interested to see how this ends up, but I'm also wary of it. I'm afraid you'll rank DVS low, but keep in mind that I have a heck of a fun time using that thing to kill Zombies, and I could clear waves of the things quickly without taking a scratch. (This is assuming I'm not lagging, since I have to be able to respond to counter-attacks very quickly.) I was using it to effectively crowd-control many mobs and kill off gun-pups. Thanks to it's speed, it also is very good at killing Devilites and other nasty, speedy pests.

I suggest you take time with each weapon before ranking them, because I think that everyone is wrong when they say DVS is a bad weapon. It just takes reflexes. So who knows how many weapons are like this?

Or, I could just be a weird guy who is a lot more pro than he gives himself credit for. Maybe you'll have to be the judge of that. :)

EDIT: Oh, wait, readers are supposed to make lists? I didn't know that...I might make a list eventually. It wasn't too clear from your post...unless I misread something twice? :P

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:08

Latisan-Sklay

"Take time with each weapon"

"I suggest you take time with each weapon before ranking them, because I think that everyone is wrong when they say DVS is a bad weapon." ~Autofire

Just a couple of things to note for anyone who drops by.
- I've been revising some of the ratings on the Swords list for upwards of two months now. The Glacius, Troika Variants, and status Flourishes in particular have jumped all over the place, but I think I've finally found the spots I like them to be.
- I don't know if you said this before reading or after, but I hope I didn't make it sound like the DVS is a bad weapon. There's a reason why it's rated so highly, but I feel like my job is to point out the bad more than the good (cause the good tends to be obvious). Thus, it may seem like I have a negative bent towards every weapon, though this is frankly and hopefully obviously not the case.
- I'm not treating my list as a list to end all lists. It's merely a suggestion for new players and possibly a new perspective for old ones.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:08

Holy-Nightmare

Fang of vog

The Fov's placement is probably about right but you should probably mention how the charge gives you the power of a Blitz needle charge in a far more mobile package.

If all 4 hits land on an undead (stratum 6) it "can" do 2260 damage (vog cub suit gets you that 4th hit)

If all 15 shots from a blitz hit on an undead (stratum 6) it can do 2865

anyway I look forward to your next lists

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:15

Autofire

You are experiencing a DERP!

Derrrrrp I didn't see your swords thing. I didn't know that was a link...

Deeeeeuuururururp. Let me look.

EDIT: Okay, sorry about that. It's a decent list. I can't exactly speak for a lot of swords because I haven't really used many of the top tiered ones. Most of mine are T2, according to your list. The only exception is the Hammer, but I still find my DVS to be a better choice in a lot of situations. What'd I say? I'm weird. xD

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:40

Fehzor

I'm reading your guide right now.

I don't think that you considered utility value of items highly enough-- dread venom striker is a good example of this. No, I don't use dread venom striker on every encounter I see. Yes, it still makes its way into my loadouts as one of the more vital weapons- if I see an opportunity to use it, and like I said there are a ton out there, then I can pull it out and have a grand time.

Another thing is that you didn't consider faust/other 4* variants of existing swords, which can outclass their 5* variant.

(If you'd like, I can delete/move my other post. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on what a ranking would look like since it is kind of relevant)

OH!

"It should be noted that these lists were composed as if in a vacuum, with no consideration of synergy or compliments with other gear unless otherwise stated."

But that isn't the way it works at all!

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:40

Latisan-Sklay

"I can delete/move my other post"

"If you'd like, I can delete/move my other post. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on what a ranking would look like since it is kind of relevant." ~Fehzor

Nope, it's all good. I agree; I think what you've said is relevant. I actually didn't know about this 4* thing at all, but that definitely is worth considering. Though, I'm still not sure of any good reason to use the Faust or GF charge ever, compared to other things that charge and deal damage (like a Dark Retribution).

Once again, DVS is not bad. It just gets somewhat out damaged by other, more specialized forms of damage. Maybe it does belong at the bottom of Tier 3; I've not used mine enough lately.

And one of the consequences of considering every weapon in a vacuum is ignoring the heating costs. I did take crafting costs into consideration in a few (like the BTB), but heating is just one of those things in this game that… well, it hurts. xD

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 11:59

Krakob

My thoughts on the list:

I think you're making a mistake by putting WRH above Combuster. Combuster is the most all-around sword there is with its fire, safety, and extreme power with the charge. WRH is, as you noted, not as all around as Combuster due to the lack of normal damage. Also, don't say you should use WRH with AT. If you learn how to use it without AT, you'll have a greater ability to dodge and hit multiple enemies.

Not fully including the WRH in the list is silly. It's a part of the game and it's available to f2p players.

I'd say you got the ranking of FF and BTB wrong. BTB can't one-shot enemies unless you're in a small group or on a low difficulty while FF often can. If you are skilled with FF, you should also be able to hit crowds with the charge, just like with BTB although probably not hitting quite as many enemies.

Ranking Voltedge lower than Glacius due to how one acquires it contradicts This tier list takes into account two things. First, utility and more specifically damage for the weapons.

Your DA ranking is in my opinion way off. DA shares charge speed with Brandishes. Comparing it's attack speed to Brandishes and thinking it's bad because of that but placing GF just one spot below Obsidian Edge feels kind of silly as well.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 12:22

Fehzor

For Faust charges:
Consider the following loadout when fighting construct+gremlins:
Divine Veil
Chaos Cloak
Grey Owlite Shield

Faust
Valiance

Sprite Perk: +3 Curse

The curse that you receive will be 31 seconds in duration and will effect 2 vials and 1 weapon (according to the wiki). Here is how it works:

Spam Faust until Faust is cursed. There is under a 50% chance per charge that this will happen, so you should be able to curse quite a number of enemies. When faust becomes cursed, switch to valiance and spam that while dodging attacks. The curse status will do all of the heavy lifting for you, as it is basically a one hit KO against everything vulnerable to it, then valiances maneuverability lets the user clean up and trigger the curse damage repeatedly.

The true benefit to this is that while largely unnecessary for small groups of things that your party will rush ahead and destroy, it makes dealing with huge problematic encounters such as danger rooms much easier-- yes, brandish charges could do it. But brandish charges don't deal as much knockback when put up against 15 enemies, and rely on the user to successfully endanger themselves repeatedly to work.

-------------------------

For heating costs/"in a vacuum"

I really don't think its possible to make a tier list in a vaccuum, or without considering costs of items. This is because that in order for any one item to be 'good' there must be some means of comparing it to other items-- you didn't say winmillion was good. Is it good? Yeah, its great compared to not having any weapons. Is it good compared to every other option? Nope.

Another thing is that when one item costs 1/10th as much as another and provides resources for more variety of gear, then that thing is definitely a consideration. Which is why I said that the 4* leviathan was top notch-- elite orbs + shinning fire crystals are relatively inexpensive compared to radiant fire crystals alone-- if I need to find a sword as a bomber, then the 4* leviathan will meet all of the requirements. It can be used to knock back+down small groups of enemies, leaving a clear view of the mender among them. If I'm using stagger storm + ash of agni to deal with crowds, this can be quite a useful feature when my team is busy fighting off other threats. Crafting Acheron + Combuster would be much better, but would greatly compromise my progress towards crafting useful bombs.

---------------------------

Side Note: My list wasn't in any particular order within it like yours was. Is the 4* leviathan better than combuster? Situationally. My philosophy is that it doesn't matter as long as there is legitimate incentive to craft 'em all-- meaning that there is a time and place and usable strategy that you'd like to try out.

And your list isn't bad by any means, it has the right idea for sure.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 12:21

#10

Krakob

Even better: acquire +10 curse resistance, be immune to Faust self curse.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 12:47

#11

Latisan-Sklay

"Ranking Voltedge lower than Glacius"

"Ranking Voltedge lower than Glacius due to how one acquires it contradicts This tier list takes into account two things. First, utility and more specifically damage for the weapons." ~Krakob

But don't forget the second thing the list takes into consideration, which is new players! Unless you like the 4* Cobalt knights with Ascended Caliburs in your Lockdown game, you don't want them getting the Voltedge first either. So there's a reason it's ranked like that, and there's a reason why it's given a, "If you're an older player" caveat in the description.

If you can't BTB one shot enemies, then you need practice. :p Though since I can't FF one shot multiple enemies, I guess I do too.
Note that I do mention that fencing blade charging against Beasts or Fiends isn't the recommended strategy to begin with, as that's not what the swords were primarily built for. The big (skill?) problem I have with the FF personally is charging against Silkwings, which like to move out of my way mid-charge.
Even if the two neutralize each other on charging like that, the Snarble Barb is an easier buy than the Flourish starting out.

You're right, WRH isn't as versatile. But the damage… there's so much of it. I'm sure I don't need to tell the great Krakob himself of a damage comparison of a skilled player using WRH in Lockdown versus using a Combuster. I find that PvE isn't much different, though I like them both a ton (thus the 2 spot, don't forget). The WRH is also easier to get than the Combuster, because no crafting cost. If you don't find that as a large point, I'd suggest trying to run a F2P knight. You run out of Orbs pretty quick, or else end up Arcade grinding for dayzz.
If you wanna try-hard skillshot MLG WRH without auto target, by all means go ahead. It's a good skill to learn (and I've learned it). But you must admit, auto-targetting usually gets max DPS in crowds of constructs, Trojans, or Skolver clones.
The weapon isn't in the base game, so it isn't in my base list. I don't disagree with you, but I stand by my decision on that one. Just a style choice.

DA or Brandish, pick one. I'd pick a Brandish.
DA or Gran Faust, pick one. I'd pick a Gran Faust (my choice personally, probably not everybody's).
DA or DVS, pick one. I'd pick a DVS (again, my choice).
That's why it sits there. I guess it's just a personal choice of mine, but I'm happy to reconsider if someone can show me why I should think otherwise.
Oh, and I don't think "Choose 'Acheron and DA' or 'Elemental Brandish and GF'" is a valid point, because it's not logically sound.
I dunno, I'd be interested to hear what DA defenders have to say. I'm willing to change that one up --I've had a hard time with the top of Tier 2 already.

EDIT:
"If I need to find a sword as a bomber, then the 4* leviathan will meet all of the requirements" ~Fehzor

Sure thing. I guess my thought on that would be that if you're looking to dodge Radiant Fire Crystals, all weapons (and most armors for that matter) work adequately well at 4*. And so would a Vile Striker or Hunting Blade or Khorovod or Cautery Sword.
The idea of the tier list is to try to provide some order to things. When I first started playing, I composed a rather long Word Doc of all the gear combinations I wanted to try (via the AH), without knowing which ones were good or what they did or how they compared or how they swung. I understand and accept and promote that lots of gear in this game (including the Cautery Sword, Irontech Destroyer, Volc. Pepperbox, Winmillion and more) can be used to some effectiveness. But how do they stack up in a normal player's hands compared to everything else?
That's what I wanted to try to answer.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 12:37

#12

Fehzor

@Krakob
Haha yeah, that would be the greatest wouldn't it? Except all curse resist items are either divine set or shadow+normal. The point of using chaos + divine set + sprite perk was to get at exactly 5, one of the optimal amounts, while still retaining 1 5* armor worth of normal and 2 5* armor worth of elemental in terms of resistance-- making you relatively tanky as well as deadly... though a curse high + curse med UV would be pretty epic on this setup.

@"What do DA defenders have to say?"

DA's charge can one shot all turrets, as well as provide better crowd control than can a brandish charge. One shotting turrets is as simple as releasing the charge a bit away from the turret so that all 3 of the projectiles go through the turret. Dealing better crowd control is a matter of knocking back enemies and spreading out more on the charge. DA is also better for the roarmulus twins, as those also get hit by all of the DA projectiles.

DA stacks better with many guns as well- I can hit once with DA for the knockback, switch weapons, and shoot my handgun multiple times at an enemy for a safe way to deal more damage than a couple of brandish swipes would have dealt (presuming that going all out with the brandish's normal attack would be likely to get me hurt).

This is why I put it on the T3 list. Gran Faust on the other hand has an unusable charge attack, and thus cannot take out any significant enemies without great effort. Regular faust can do this with menders/healers/large crowds if powered up like I mentioned above, so it is on par with divine avenger. The brandishes have their damage factor going for them, as well as their charge and ease of use, as well as being competent when used up against a wall, as well as being not that much worse at any of the above-- but there is still a trade off.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 12:52

#13

Holy-Nightmare

DA defense

The DA charge is better against large immobile enemies like Vanaduke, Royal Jelly, Roarmulus (makes soloing a breeze), battlepods, as well as clumped groups of enemies.

In the many situations DA is beast. A group of players charge spamming DA can keep enemies back with ease as well as dealing extraordinary damage.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 12:58

#14

Krakob

If you can't BTB one shot enemies, then you need practice.
How so? I don't think you can optimise damage further than AT+no distance, which doesn't work, afaik.

I'd suggest trying to run a F2P knight.
Been there, done that. I think it took me more than a year from starting to reaching full 5* (although I had a couple of large breaks). Still, I think it's a lot more easier to get Combuster due to the lower cost of orbs+the ability to find them, while O:CH is just plainly 3.2k E. There's of course the heat grinding but that should be faster than gaining the difference in Energy between Combuster's orbs and O:CH's cost.

But you must admit, auto-targetting usually gets max DPS in crowds of constructs, Trojans, or Skolver clones.
No. AT limits you to hitting one enemy while some practice and knowledge regarding how to use WRH without AT allow one to land the initial hit+all dash hits on the same target while also possibly hitting other enemies and most importantly, dodging without shield cancelling (which causes a shield bump which is very undesirable).

As for the matter of DA, I think Fehzor pointed out most good aspects of it. Something one can consider is that DA theoretically has the most powerful sword charge in the game, with the same damage as Acheron but possibly more hits per projectile and three projectiles. It's fast enough to be used mid-combat, even though it is limiting with its low movement speed when charging.

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 15:03

#15

Bopp

suggestions

The guide is fairly well-written and mostly full of good, detailed information. We can always argue over the specific rankings, but let's not. Instead, here are some suggestions. I hope that you find them friendly and useful.

This whole "Tier 3, Tier 2, Tier 1" nomenclature is going to confuse newish players. All of these swords are Tier-3. Instead use something like "Good, Better, Best".

A crucial aspect of the design of Spiral Knights is that knights run faster than most monsters. This is what lets experienced players dodge enemies. This is what makes fast enemies (greavers) and swarming enemies (compounds) frustrating for many players. But in tight, crowded rooms you cannot always dodge. The big sweeps of the heavy swords are useful for holding crowds of enemies at bay. This is especially notable for non-expert players. And by hitting multiple enemies, they can sometimes achieve very high DPS. The same comments apply to the first swings of the piercing swords. But your guide does not seem to address length and width of swings at all. Conversely, the slow charge movement of the heavy swords inhibits your dodging. This is also worth mentioning.

This thread should be in Arsenal, not General Discussion, right?

Tue, 04/15/2014 - 21:28

#16

Dahall

@OP

I believe the true pronunciation is "Ah-er-on".

Onto the topic being discussed, you should know that many players have different fighting techniques.So far I've seen unskilled, hit-and-runs, barbaric attacks and rangers.

I didn't read the replies by the way.

Wed, 04/16/2014 - 09:57

#17

Hexzyle

+1 Fehzor

Wed, 04/16/2014 - 16:44

#18

Fehzor

"I understand and accept and promote that lots of gear in this game (including the Cautery Sword, Irontech Destroyer, Volc. Pepperbox, Winmillion and more) can be used to some effectiveness. But how do they stack up in a normal player's hands compared to everything else?"

But wouldn't that get caught up on 'first order optimal' weapons? I.E. Power out is FAR GREATER than effort put in, but there exists a better option.

List of swords based on ease of use vs instantaneous reward:

1: No learning curve; instantaneous ability to murder everything
Acheron
Combuster
Voltedge
Glacius
Obsidian Edge

2: There exists a learning curve somewhere; still easy to pick up and murder everything with
Final Flourish
Barbarous Thorn Blade
Divine Avenger
Gran Faust

3: Takes some practice to make effective
Warmaster Rocket Hammer
Sudaruska
Triglav
Leviathan Blade

4: Takes a good deal of creativity + practice to make effective
Dread Venom Striker
Fearless Rigadoon
Faust (NOT 'gran')
Fang of Vog
Wild Hunting Blade

5: Weapons that literally have next to no use
Furious Flamberg (only strong against flame-retardant monsters)
Winmillion
Cold Iron Vanquisher

-------

The problem with this is that there is a time and place for everything, and that "second class" weapons like dread venom striker can and will be better than "first class weapons" with practice and understanding. The same holds true for the brandishes and other "first class weapons". If people want to be good at the game, they can't just cling to acheron forever, no matter how "OP" it is.

Wed, 04/16/2014 - 16:55

#19

Bopp

two-dimensional

It might be interesting to plot these swords on a two-dimensional plane, where one axis is "ease of use/mastery" and the other is "power in the hands of a master". The outlier would be WRH.

I would also like to know exactly which monsters can be one-shot-killed by the charge attacks of Levi and CIV, at various levels of damage bonus, depth, and party size. The issue is Levi's higher damage vs. CIV's higher chances to land more hits. The monster health tables compiled by Zeddy and his crew would probably help a lot. But the analysis would include not just damage numbers, but also knockback against non-pinned, non-stationary monsters. Probably Krakob is the player to do this task, as he already did part of it.

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 00:46

#20

Krakob

I did a sloppy comparison some while ago.

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 01:01

#21

Lagretta

+1 for Fehzor Exactly the

+1 for Fehzor

Exactly the Tier list i had in mind.

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 08:59

#22

Zeddy

I will weigh on bombs. Although I've tried every weapon type, bombs are the weapon type I have all instances of and extensively tested.

None of this is about Lockdown.

Recommended for everyone
These are bombs that are genuinely good, regardless of your class. If you're looking to beat a stage you're having trouble with, these are bombs that I actually think will aid you in your quest.

Dark Briar Barrage

(Large area, no knocback, chargest fast, high interruption.)

Dark Retribution

(Quite possibly the highest DPS weapon outside of Blitz Needle)

Nitronome

(For when you just need stuff out of your face.)

Venom Veiler

(For anything that can heal.)

Shivermist Buster

(Basically just for people who are bad at the game.)

Actually good bombs
These weapons can be at least as effective as above, but they're not as easy to use, and rather than helping you with a difficult situation, they might be better suited to roflstomp stages you're already good at even harder.

Electron Vortex

(So you can kill everything at once with your brandish.)

Obsidian Crusherr

(Same as electron, but vs gremlins, beasts and slimes.)

Voltaic Tempest

(Situationally amazing crowd control, especially when paired with...)

Stagger Storm

(It's like playing with bullet time!)

Ash of Agni

(Although weak, this might be the single safest and most versatile damage bomb there is.)

Those other bombs
The rest are fun but impractical. The remainders are basically just Big Angry, Irontech, and the shard bombs. They can be good, but it takes so much work that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone fairly new to the game.

Graviton Vortex is not bad, but its cousins overshadow it.

Lockdown rankings
Actually good

Voltaic Tempest

Not actually good

Not Voltaic Tempest

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 09:12

#23

Krakob

LD bombing is only about status bombs but if you wanna get competitive about it, you NEED two status bombs because people will equip sets to fight your bomb if you only have one. Shiver, Voltaic Tempest, and Stagger Storm as the best since the other two don't offer any crowd control, although they're good. Ideally, you have two bombs and a sword. If you have a 4th slot well congratulations I have no idea exactly what to do with it.

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 12:01

#24

Holy-Nightmare

@Krakob

The all purpose valiance should fit at a decent weapon

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 14:14

#25

Janeks

I'll defend that "useless" weapons

Winmillion-thats only a utilty sword. Remember that you move very fast with him and so your target does. You can push menders out from spiketraps then change to Acheron and finish them.
Flamberge-actually a best weapon for save winterfest! mission IMO
CIV-less knockback=less anoying in party
BAB/Irontech-very good at cornering tactic
Shard Bombs-nice and specialized weapons. Very good for vanduke fight (SSC).

Thu, 04/17/2014 - 17:45

#26

Fehzor

@Janeks

Winmillion is outclassed by many other weapons in terms of utility. In terms of bullets, carbine/argent peacemaker offer MUCH better control over the environment. In terms of knockback, Leviathan Blade and Sudaruska as well as even BAB are far superior at making openings for killing menders.

Flamberg deals less damage to fiends and beasts than do the other flourishes, in part because fiends and beasts resist fire. This puts it below the pure damage variants, which in turn deal less damage than the brandish lines. As I posted above, fearless rigadoon deals stun, a status that grievers and I believe their winterfest counterparts are weak to. This puts it at a tremendous edge, as it is possible to bring as a counter to grievers + source of sword damage.

The cornering tactic works directly against most other player's strategies due largely to how popular other strategies are, and is rarely applicable. This means that the item is only truly good when you have 4 very experienced players colluding-- a situation that probably wouldn't fail to begin with. Further, the glue-them-to-walls tactic is better done with nitronome + supernova.

Shard bombs are mostly awful, and while the piercing variants of them can be used for fighting vanaduke, I would have a very hard time recommending it to anyone. The shadow+shock variant of the shard bombs is actually a decent option for getting through slimes and gremlins and construct alike, so I could see someone actually making that so as not to purchase OCH. Scintillating sun shards is significantly worse than dark briar barrage, but can find some use in fighting devilites, if the user is capable of dealing with grievers sans DBB. Deadly crystal bomb is OK, and nothing more. Yeah, it can do damage to undead and constructs just fine. But honestly, I'd rather just bring haze bombs.

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