Super Brawl Feedback Thread

While the maps could incentivize the use of melee weapons a bit more through more cover and sleep/freeze/shock/stun vials to allow for high-damaging hits, I do not believe the overall structure of maps has that much of an influence with how powerful guns are, the fact they are so spammable and deal a significant amount of damage is the main culprit here, and I believe can only be fixed by modifying or limiting the weapons themselves, which is probably not easy to do considering how hard games are to balance in general and how much of a mess this game's balance and (possibly) code already is.

Additionally, I'd like to add that vials work surprisingly well as surprise attacks from bellow due to camera angles, and as a way to disrupt an already on-going fight to occasionally steal kills. It admittedly is a bit annoying when it happens, but it is so infrequent due to how hard to land they are that it is bearable.

Your map designs are not the issue. Running away and spamming guns, specifically 5* blasters, has been the most foolproof strategy in LD ever since the gunner update. The damage-range-speed balance is off the charts compared to all other weapons, even surpassing Acheron in perceived unfairness.

Even hackers/cheaters who use files to enhance their sword range can't counter max damage blaster spam, it's that effective.

If I wanted to encourage more close range combat variety without affecting PvE, I would cut damage of all guns by 50-75% when in any PvP mode, or make damage dropoff severely with hit distance from shot origin point.

The maps themselves are great, insane to see super brawl in 2025.

Echoing the previous two posts, the maps themselves are not what is causing the dissatisfaction people have with the gameplay, it is just the archaic 15 year old game mode, and the tools available to us today do not mix well with the design space of the past.

People forget how much this game has changed but damage bonus on handguns really didn't exist when Super Brawl was around before. Chaos was low per piece not medium, shadowsun (or any gunner armor at the time) had no damage bonus at all, and black kat was a twinkle in the eye of the devs. Handguns were useful as poke but calling them the main gameplan is a stretch, they were carried extremely hard by old hybrid damage Sentenza. Comparatively swords did crazy damage, and Skolver/Vog Cub really had no competition in the armor department. Even if we used the power of hindsight to realize Valiance was actually kind of a really good weapon, it would just not hold up.

In the era of omni damage max, msi, and modal blasters, it doesn't surprise me that this is what the experience boils down to. Giving everyone a chunky vitapod would actually be a welcome remedy imo. Blaster is typically 5-6 shots to kill depending on defense vs. damage type and acheron is almost always 3, and while acheron still has a faster TTK, the risk really isn't worth it. A higher HP pool will be more felt when trying to kill with handguns vs. a sword.

Now that my boomer Super Brawl rant is over here's some feedback that you're actually looking for:
-From what I have seen the sleep map is by far the fan favorite solely because of the vials. If you want to experiment with vials going forward, I would focus on the ones with CC (shock, freeze, sleep, stun) over the ones without. Everytime I got hit with a fire/poison vial I just kind of didn't care. Now, if there was a sealed sword vial, where the status inflicted wasn't determined until it hit, THAT would be awesome, but I know that's not in your power.
-Boosters sound cool, but I would watch to watch if the 30 second timer that these orbs have in PvE is hard coded to the pickup. 30 seconds is 10% of the match after all.
-I agree with your sentiment on healpads.

Here's my ranking:
5: Courtyard - As far as the maps go, this is vanilla. And there is nothing wrong with vanilla, but its giant size really has it lean into the gameplay people don't like of just spacing with guns. People seem to have the most fun with this mode when its a chaotic melee brawl. If this map was still open but more cramped, it would be great. I love the idea of the secret room, and it would actually pay off if there was a reward to getting to the end first (like a boost!). An indiana jones race against 7 others to the end of the corridor to get a boost is kino gameplay.
4: Firestone Circle - The breakables are great but most will be gone a minute into the match, where it just turns into a better courtyard in my opinion.
3: Old Town - The geometry here is so good, I have seen so many crazy plays in the fenced off areas beside the stairs on the left side of the map, and the building on the right side. The only thing I really found frustrating was the erratic nature of the spawn sometimes made me have to 180 the map to find action, and when the timer is red and you're racing for points, it can feel like you got cheated.
2: Archipelago - The middle is big enough to move around in but close enough to still feel bombastic. The small amount of actual walkable ground keeps things entertaining. The only downside for me is that being in the center opens you to getting shot from all angles by onlookers on the outer ring. Maybe toying around with walls would be cool.

BIG GAP

1: Crescent - Nice and roomy, terrain to play around, the variable X factor in the sleep vials. Easily the most fun map to play. If there was one gripe I had, its that there's no reason to really visit the top half of the map. With the camera zoom out not accessible in this mode, playing top half leaves you extremely exposed to sniped by a sleep vial while at camera angle disadvantage. If you put remedy capsules up here, players would have a reward to take the risk, a get out of jail free card for when you head back down south to join the chaos.

Thanks for your work mate.

All arenas:
- Player camera adjusted for better visibility;
- Spawn Points moved closer to each other to provoke more fights for King Krogmo's pleasure

Whitestone Courtyard:
- Cryptic statues suddenly manifested themselves across the entire area, providing much needed battlefield cover;
- More pickups thrown onto the arena by the King to spice up the brawl (some of them do contain spice);
- "Secret Room" improved: bridge — widened, rewards — doubled, stakes — heightened!
- Some holes in the floor repaired;

Old Town:
- More cover created in the eastern portion of the arena;
- Instead of a Heal Pad, the Puppy in the western garden now bestows a gift of Movement Speed (and a Remedy Capsule just in case);
- Poison vial replaced with Stun vial;
- Freeze vial replaced with Sleep vial;
- One of the pads now distributes Stun vials instead of Health Capsules;

Firestone Circle:
- Some walls were repaired to provide better cover;
- More shrubs raised;
- Heal Pads replaced: the ancient bonfire now grants a powerful damage boost;
- Stun Vial pads placed in-between spawn points;
- Fire Vial pads placed at the top of the map;
- Health Capsule pads placed at the edges of the map;

Misty Crescent:
- The inefficient heal pad has been replaced with Health Capsule pad;
- More cover added to both islands.
- Sidepaths to top island made easier to destroy;
- Unlockable Health Capsules replaced with Remedy Capsules;
- Health Capsule pad added to the top of the smaller island;

Cloudy Archipelago:
- Boons of the central island changed: Poison Vials & the Heal Pad were replaced with Defence Booster and Stun Vials;
- Respawning blocks were placed on the bottom bridge to reduce the camera angle advantage;

They took every bit of feedback EXCEPT for adding vitapods. We are so close.

Aye, unfortunately the Vitapod addition couldn't be done quickly, so the update was shipped without it. I hope to see it in the next patch notes.

I don't have any issue with the map themselves. They're a nice change-of-pace in comparison to the normal LD maps.

I don't know if this is Super Brawl specific but damn would I love it if Bio/Neut charge explosion could 1 shot people instead of dealing like 1% damage. I like how the charge attack projectile itself deals like half health to a BK user, but the explosion damage when used in conjunction with the basic attack, is honestly disappointing imho

@Nurr-Rus
"Vials are too unwieldy to use most of the time. They are useful and can turn the tables, but they are slow to unleash and hard to aim. I'd like to add some additional pads which will give out Boosters instead (speed boosters, defence boosters, but probably NOT attack boosters - there's enough firepower already)"

I've actually found vials to be quite advantageous but that's only when I throw a vial straight after a dash (to negate the initial movement speed decrease of using a vial). It's unfortunate that to make vials more usuable one has to use some form of movement tech but at least it's something

@Thats-Rough-Buddy
"Even hackers/cheaters who use files to enhance their sword range can't counter max damage blaster spam, it's that effective."

You can't enhance sword range. This has never been a thing. Stop talking like it is a thing. A connection imbalance between players can give the impression that their attacks have better range but enhancing sword range is literally not a thing.

"If I wanted to encourage more close range combat variety without affecting PvE, I would cut damage of all guns by 50-75% when in any PvP mode, or make damage dropoff severely with hit distance from shot origin point."

Why not just focus on nerfing the damage of damage-type specific blasters? They're the main issue. If you cut damage of ALL guns then you made pretty much all guns into peashooters (AP/Carbine, Alchemers), while the off-meta ones downright useless.

@Hatn

You'll have to talk to previous Enrage guild members for the specifics of the file cheat. Enhanced sword range was the easiest way to explain it to a layperson, but yes it doesn't modify actual range. They might not spill the beans though, but just do some digging. It is a functional modification to the game client behavior though, not just ping.

Also, you are not a PvP player, so you wouldn't know the nuances of player behavior regarding guns. Just play a few matches with a gun spammer, that should make it obvious to you why people are reacting negatively.

@Thats-Rough-Buddy

It doesn't modify actual range? Alright, cool. Glad that we're on the same page that such a thing, despite your original comment, doesn't exist.

Please don't talk to me like you know my history with LD. I'm aware of the general sentient towards the "run and gun" gameplay with the Arcana (in the case of Super Brawl it's "walk and gun"), however I don't think a blanket nerf on ALL guns is the best idea when dealing with the potency of special damage-type blasters (namely arcana). Focus on the specific problematic guns instead of treating all of them like they're an issue

Yesterday me and 5 other people wanted to try playing Free-for-all Super Brawl since we've never tried it before, only to find out that 6 players isn't enough to start a match. That left 1v1 as the only option, which was annoying since we wanted to play group pvp. We had to switch to 2v2 Lockdown and Blast Network instead.

Please reduce the minimum amount of players necessary for free-for-all Super Brawl. Make it possible with 4-6 players, or add a 2v2 option. Lockdown requiring 8 people makes sense since it's a team based mode about controlling the map, but it doesn't make sense for Super Brawl.