The casino is vague and secretive on purpose

Since the Casino is run by the slimes, and is a side aspect of the game, it was intended that there would be some "Joy of Discovery" to figure-out the changes as a community rather than just get a list.

We've never published a list of what's inside Slime Lockboxes. They are mysterious. The community works to document what people find in different ones, and that's great.

So our release notes are a little vague when it comes to the casino because it gives you more to discover.

at these odds/rates, this honestly just makes your content not worth engaging with

using "Lore" as "Get Out of Jail Free card"

I miss Nick.

Is there a way we can complain to the slimes? e.g removing our 'business'/not going to the casino until they change things in the direction we want them to (not being a scam)? I would do that if there was a global progress bar or something to encourage people to do so.

I'm sure some people have tried going to the slime king and threatening him into changing the casino laws, but that doesn't work either, I feel like there's a puppet pulling strings that he can't override, whoever that puppet is I think we have some complaints for them.

Also: Slimes seem kind of tight with their money these days, I search through the casinos I find and not once do I ever find any slime coins on the floor, or a paid-for but unspun machine (i.e free spin)

"Hey, lets remove any incentive to engage in Slime Casinos and turn it into a massive crown sink"

Personally I don't actually have a problem with the patch notes thing.

I just hope this get adjusted soon. Currently the High Wobbler Lounge is a waste of space, time and crowns

@Solo-Cub according to the lore, Jelly king is ded cause he died by knights

Hit me with your thoughts before they take away my forum access because I'm TOO SPICY.

So it's a random occurence that I go spend 50 slime coins and only spins once... Ok... because Slimey Business are run by Slimey Subjects...

Tell the Spiral Quarter explosive development Department that buff the Mad Bomber and the Mercurial Demo set, or I'll pack the Suspension "Bridge" of Disbelieve with enough Voltaic Tempest, Venom Veiler, Ash of Agni, Torpor Tantrum, Big Angry Bomb, Shocking Salt Bomb, Dark Briar Barrage and Dark Retribution to Blast the Network to the point they'll Believe that Apocrea is Nicer than the Waste-Land I'll create!

Also tell the spiral Quarter that when a team, I'm sure there are teams investigating the Clockworks notice a Movement like the Casino, Apocrea, Kataclismic, Tortodrone March, either investigate or ask US to investigate, a couple of days prior to the event hitting the elevators we could get a notice to set ready and to gear ourselves to investigate on a "mission to investigate"! and yes the Clockworks are unpredictables, but we can check what's approaching our way... when is a day ahead.

Also, also, radio silence Sucks! I don't want to know what the Spiral Quarter had for dinner but, I would like to know what are the plans and if some are getting delayed or not because how The clockworks shifts.

Cheers!

I understand what you're trying to do here, but this is only going to make community outrage even worse than it already is. I say this not to be overly critical or harsh, just honest; We need open and honest conversation about these issues. The community is reaching a boiling point - We're not sure what's happening to the game we love, and when asking for open conversation, accountability and communication we're not getting it.

The Casino is a symptom of a wider problem with how things are being handled, and the overwhelming consensus from the community seems to be "we're not being listened to". With this update being dropped with no warning, and no communication over the Casino being reworked, we did not know what to expect. If Grey Havens' intentions are to have the casino constantly changing and updating, we needed to know ahead of time that this was the case; The previous Casino model was mostly constant, with just the boxes being the thing that changed - Even then, it became more of a case of whether they were dropping or not, rather than what was dropping. We had no precedent to expect this to not be the permanent reworked state of the Casino, as you seem to be implying here. A little bit of communication before the update may have tempered the storm.

Please understand, when this seems to be the response to us expressing concerns over the content being pushed to the live game, we are going to be concerned, upset and angry. This method of communication with us is detrimental both to the game and yourselves; It cannot go on much longer. We love this game, and we want to at least feel like we're being heard. That doesn't mean taking on every suggestion people make and pushing it to live, but even just acknowledging our concerns in a way that isn't roundabout or deflective would go a long way in helping the sense of dissatisfaction that is brewing right now.

Hello there Gyre-Of-Guille! Thank you for at least chiming in and responding to things. At the very least we're now aware our posts are being read.
And that means we can proceed forward with a civil discussion in hopes of getting through.

Bear in mind I still do have the utmost respect for the developers team trying to put out new content, and I do only want what's best for this game and community that has raised me since my childhood.

That being said, I do have to be blunt and say, this response is unsatisfactory and frankly only serves to spark more outrage.

1. These posts weren't made in the form of casual feedback. The playerbase is quite a bit distraught over this change and takes it rather seriously. Simply shrugging it off and tying it to slimes' lore may be funny, but quite poorly timed right now. Please interact more on a human level than as mysterious admins for this once.
2. While it is true that slime lockbox drop rates and pools have always been secretive and discovered by players in the past, that was when the playerbase did have more faith in Grey Havens, the boxes were more objectively worthwhile, and people didn't need to second guess updates or new content being this bad or unworth their efforts.
3. " Is there really only the 00A box out there, or is there also something else? " Please do not gaslight us here. We have the statistical data on record. Players do talk and exchange data. As you said it's the joy of discovery. And the discovery has proven to be unsatisfactory and just disappointing to people. I'd say thousands of rolls is sufficient enough data to draw the conclusion, it is only 00A boxes in the wheel right now. But the issue is people dislike the drops of these boxes and wish for something more to look forward to. As Loupous had pointed out, these boxes are following the trends of prior prize boxes having only 4 color schemes of items at a time in them on rotation, and we may be able to expect a 00B box in the future with different color schemes. However this is proven to be inconsistent from the sudden volcanic slimed aura from the 00A boxes, yet no volcanic helmets or tails. Hence there was need to point out this inconsistency and request clarification.
4. " I haven't seen a 003 box drop in a long time, have you? Maybe they never will again. Maybe QQQ will never drop again. It might make you uneasy. The slimes like to keep a fresh rotation going. " Leaving it at this and as the whims of the slimes is just dismissive of the issues present in the game. It doesn't take much to notice that the game's economy is hurting. It needs more of a fix to it, not something to keep us guessing what happens next. Because on a downward trend, all we can think is "how much worse can it get?" QQQ boxes have now inflated. There's no news on whether totems drop from these boxes. Meaning their prices only inflate even more too.
5. There's no way you can convince us that sinking 10k crowns into just getting a vial is a healthy form of "higher risk slot". And high risk should translate to high reward, but the reward from this is just not at all high enough for it. Dismissing this as "things change" and that they will change again is just a poor indirect way of acknowledging that this was a mistake and might be rolled back in the future.
6. The joy of discovery comes from there actually being something to enjoy from discovery. Nobody's going to waste their money on trying to unbox these and test the waters if on the surface so far from the community's statistical data is that they're abysmal. You're just encouraging people to waste their money on a reward that likely isn't even there.
7. Can the slimes keep us on our toes by making slime keys at least useful to alleviate the issues here? Seriously, those were introduced in the days where energy was 80cr/1e. Times have changed, now silver keys are half as expensive as slime keys.
8. It's fine to be secretive about a new addition to the game, but there should be at least SOME information when you make an absolutely drastic change to a long standing system in the game. At least a heads up on these things before people sink millions of crowns to fetch data and warn others that this is not worth it and horrible.

Again, as mentioned before, we're not asking for you to leak all your upcoming developments, but we do want some sign that you're going to actually listen to what the community wants, and not just release stuff as you please and pray we accept it with unsatisfactory replies from your end.

Please try to consider the playerbase's feelings on this matter. We're hurting and just begging for some human element from your end. Not more vagueness and dismissal.
It's great that at least you tried to address things, but this seems quite unprofessional and like just swindling us all.

Take the time, discuss internally, and please return with a better response. Not more mystery and lies.

It's all fun and good to watch money burn for a bit but once the hole in my pockets has been properly burned out, I'm left wanting more. If only there was more to do at these casinos than stare at a slot machine. Like mini-games, or a casino-themed slime boss to fight.

@Gyre-Of-Guile, how about a speech from developer to players with an actual good reason of why the 50x is removed and why can't you show us the box odds instead of "LORE" and "SLIMES"

I kinda understand where you are coming from with this, but this just isn't the right time for obscure or secretive mechanics, be it lore-accurate or not.

Transparency and popper communication between Grey Havens and Spiral Knight's community has been a very common issue for many years now, modifying existing mechanics and not giving at least a basic "there's a couple of new masks and tails for you to find!" because "The slimes like to keep you on your toes." is like putting salt in the wound.

I love this side of you, Gyre XD

its been 15 years get a grip, TALK NORMALLY for once

Blink twice if the slimes are holding you hostage and forcing you to justify their actions to make our gambling addictions more painful.

Lockbox odds have always been hidden. Asking for odds of 00A specifically is nonsensical. If you want odds for 00A, ask for odds for all lockboxes.

Slime casino has never had patch notes. If you want them, ask them to break tradition, but honestly I don't mind how it is.

The slime casino deserved a rework. It was ridiculous to fish for boxes before.
Did the boxes deserve to become more than a magnitude more expensive? No, not really, but that's not something to trash on the rest of the changes for.

I wouldn't be opposed to the slime casino itself showing odds for a given wheel. But honestly I don't really care if they do or don't. And there should be some way to cash out large quantities of coins reasonably fast.

@Gyre-Of-Guile

The fact that you're still here feels a lot to me like you're trying to win that 1987 super bowl. The same players, and the same game and yet...

Yeah, odds for all Lockboxes would be great actually. Even better, getting rid of lockboxes entirely and having cosmetics purchasable through the Supply Depot. It's looking pretty barren and my wallet is needlessly full.

Yeah, the new slots are higher risk, but they're basically offering the same reward, arguably lesser depending on who you ask.

Here's my main issues with the current casino:

1. Removing 50x spins makes the gambling achievements inaccessible.
2. High roller wheels having a 10k entry fee makes learning their wheels a rich man's errand.
3. The high roller wheels feel insulting to spin, giving you nothing of value except for the rare jackpot item.
4. The "jackpot" rewards (the slime masks and accessories) look hastily shambled together and don't fit the greater SK aesthetic (why are we using regular animals instead of the creatures on Cradle?)
5. When your hotbar is full, consumables don't auto-use, allowing your 10k roll to waste a luck potion or ocarina of slime.

There might be more but these are my personal complaints. I went into the casino, tried the new wheels out, and then left because it wasn't enjoyable to play with. Hell, the OG wheels were more fun than the new ones, but single spins made the whole experience worse.

Closing this thread as a dupe. Please use the main thread to provide any constructive feedback you have on the Slime Casino changes.
https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/comment/reply/125011

Got to agree with what people said that the casino overhaul could have been communicated better. Something as simple as "we are looking into changing casino because this is how we wanted it to work / here's why it doesn't work and needs a change" goes a long way in terms of communicating with the player base.

As for the current changes, I'll let others discuss the contents of the boxes and if they are worth it but maybe include an in-game description of what the slot machines are and how the ones in the VIP lounge differ from the ones outside. Investing 10kcr into something that you know nothing of and the game provides no info about (not even to the level of "these machines are high risk high reward that can drop slime coins and other surprises but can also throw duds like potion vials") is just a surefire way to cause massive losses and negative experience purely because the game did a bad job at explaining the situation and the risk. TBF I initially assumed the 10kcr cost in the VIP lounge was just ×50 spin machines so it really felt unfair when it ended up as a single roll that gave slime coins all of the sudden and not cr like we were used to.

Just try to be a bit more clear when making these changes, don't reveal to us the chances and rewards but at least give us the right to make an informed decision if we want to engage with this mechanic or if we would rather not risk it and keep our money instead.

@Hells-Wolf, yes thats what i thought too about 10kcr cost of machine's, thought its just 50x but when i spinned the wheel i saw its just normal machine ones but more expensive

Since the Casino is run by the slimes, and is a side aspect of the game, it was intended that there would be some "Joy of Discovery" to figure-out the changes as a community rather than just get a list.

That's funny, because finding those things out gives a possible advantage over other players. Whenever I found something out, I started cackling and kept that knowledge to myself until I harvested a sufficient amount, then told a friend with the condition to keep it secret. That way, I can for example be the sole supplier of slime wings for a few days and make bank, before they suddenly become common and cheap as more ppl find out how to get them easily.