If there was a bomb update.....
Fr, 12/26/2014 - 12:23
#52
^
My thoughts exactly. Mad Bomber would become a hybrid set for people who don't intend on getting their bombs to level 10.
Maybe making it so CTR is low and damage is high on each piece. That way, you only need to fill one trinket slot for bombing, Med CTR. You could then use the empty trinket slot to protect you from one of those statuses.
It would also open your BS to a non-boming perk, like MSI, or Shock resist.
Any flaws with this idea?
Fr, 12/26/2014 - 14:12
#53
To bring it in line with Chaos, I'd much rather see it give CTR med+DI high. Full set with heated bombs would mean maxed out bombs, save for MSI. I wouldn't say this would really make them close enough in terms of balance, though. Universal bonuses are worth way too much. Maybe they could significantly nerf Chaos' defences while letting Mad Bomber keep its current stats.
Fr, 12/26/2014 - 14:15
#54
Ooh, I had a thought on mad bomber. What if instead of making the player vulnerable, it made the player worse at using handguns and swords? So each piece would give something like-
+Bomb damage med
+Bomb CTR med
+Movement speed increased low (It needs to compete with mercy demo..)
-Negative sword/handgun damage high
-Negative sword/handgun attack speed low
-Negative sword/handgun charge time low
So you go out there and have incredible stats for bombs, but end up with huge penalties for everything else. It could even be given some resistance to status effects if this happened.
Fr, 12/26/2014 - 16:42
#55
:3
@Fehzor So these sword/gun handicaps would take the place of the Mad Bombers, terrible defensive capabilities?
Well, it would surely encourage full bombing.
MSI might make Merc Demo useless. I say no for that.
Seeing how you wouldn't be using a handgun or sword with Mad Bomber anyways, I'm not sure what it brings.
I dunno. You would either have to buff Mad Bomber to the point of it being broken, or nerf Choas into the ground, which would leave a lot of people angry...
IT'S A TRAP!
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 04:16
#56
Imo, there would still not be enough incentive to use it over say, BK set. You get a bit less bonuses but they're universal and you still got the MSI and arguably better defence as well as better resistance, save for curse.
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 08:36
#57
Nerfed to the point of being
Nerfed to the point of being broken huh?
Then might as well just give it Damage high, CTR high but remove elemental defense. So now it's a crazy dangerous set that gives bombers Ultra damage and CTR.
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 12:20
#58
^^
That would leave Max! for both. High = 3 Max! = 6
3 * 2 = 6 , meaning High + High = Max!
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 16:28
#59
Max is +8, Ultra is +6
Max is +8, Ultra is +6
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 19:14
#60
^^
Huh?
1 = Low
2= Med
3=High
4=Very HIgh
5= Ultra
6= Max!
I got this info here:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Abilities
Its under "Other Offensive Abilities"
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 18:47
#61
Ode to Nitronome is correct, although it's not "proven" on the wiki. Don't always assume information there is correct, even though it usually is. Don't forget that the wiki is mostly maintained by players such as ourselves.
Almond Riddle, making "glass cannon" sets actual glass cannon sets in things other than resistance is exactly what this game would need for gear balance. Thing is, Chaos/BK set are already broken in the sense that they're way out of balance with other sets available. Merely removing specialised defence from any glass cannon set would not have a significant imact on balance, as you'd still be taking as many hits in a Chaos set as you would in a Grey Feather set, provided statuses aren't accounted for.
For reference, a Chaos set provides 125 elemental defence on D25, which defends slightly more than 3 pips of damage at most. A Grey Feather set provides 140 elemental defence on the same depth, which defends exactly 3½ pips at most. The current difference doesn't actually make a difference in PvE. A knight can, in one of these sets, take maybe 4 hits. If you'd take 3 pips damage more every hit, you'd perhaps be able to take one hit less. It wouldn't be a crazy dangerous set.
A lot of players, including me, think that the best way to nerf glass cannon sets to actual glass cannon levels would be to reduce their health bonuses. This shouldn't necessarily apply to Mad Bomber, though. At least not unless there are other differences implemented to create an incentive for using Mad Bomber instead of Chaos.
Disclaimer: this post was written after midnight. I take no responsibility for any herps or derps found in it tomorrow morning.
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 19:21
#62
^^^
Ah, I see. I'll edit it to make it less inaccurate.
Also, I don't see and "herps" nor "derps", unless your talking about your numbers, which I'm ignorant about anyways.
So, in a statuses-less level, such as a deconstruction zone, there is no reason to use Mad over Chaos, or even Grey Feather over Chaos. Talk about OP.
So far, the only reason I would use Mad Bomber would be to make a fashion statement.
Also, would a Shard only run be possible in O:CH? I've seen something about wall-Battlepods being immune.
Sa, 12/27/2014 - 19:38
#63
Aawwww sht.
That means I've
Aawwww sht.
That means I've made a complete a$$ of myself in multiple threads :/
So, 12/28/2014 - 06:18
#64
Oh, in my post I meant to say remove all of the status penalties in exchange for sword and gun penalties. Merc demo would still offer another msi oriented option, as it would lack these penalties.
So, 12/28/2014 - 09:13
#65
:3
Well, I'd get one. I literally don't use anything but bombs, so it would benefit me a lot.
This would make it become the go-to Bombing set for PvE.
Bombastic is still PvP champion.
Fr, 01/09/2015 - 02:24
#66
New shield ?
Why about shield for bombers ?
I think they need a specific shield, with these stats : (CTR is only for bombs)
1 star : CTR Max / normal def 1 pip
2 stars : CTR high / normal def 2 pips
3 stars : CTR Med / normal def 3 pips
4 stars : CTR Low / piercing def 5 pips + 1 status resist and one status weak (like new gunner armors)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . shadow def 5 + same ...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . elemental def 5 + same ...
5 stars : CTR Low / piercing def 7 pips + 1 status resiste and one status weak + May drop bombs when damaged
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . shadow def 7 + same ...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . elemental def 7 + same
For the 5 stars shield i think about Gremlin Demo family, when you hit them they drop minor radius charged bomb around them.
So a real bomber must have these feature and adding them most viability when surrounded by monster.
For bomb dropped when hit i see 2 versions :
- A small radius of the bomb equiped (it mean a DBB with 2star radius, a 3 star radius for DR)
or
- A normal bomb like blast bomb 2* so just normal damage.
I suggest a shield with this effect instead of an armor set to prevent LD abuse. (It's more OP in LD than PVE)
Fr, 01/09/2015 - 06:02
#67
CTR Max on a single item is pretty ridiculous. It's so good there'd be no reason to upgrade it, really.One could just bring Black Kat set and that shield and be instantly maxed out without even needing trinkets or UVs. One would want Swift Steps II along with that but the trinkets could be anything.
Fr, 01/09/2015 - 07:25
#68
Mad = Crazy = Evil = shadow
A different defense type on Mad bomber would help with it's problem, if made into Shadow/Normal it could be paired up with BKC for a powerful bomber set that can be used in places that would hinder most Elemental resist bombers.
Nerfing Chaos would certainly help, or basically cutting the Mad Bombers resist penalties to a third since it's buffs only affect a third of all weapons. If Chaos users want to have access to 3 times as many weapons than Mad Bomber they should be fine with having 3 times as much status penalties. But if they just want to bomb let the Mad bomber be the much safer choice than Chaos.
Fr, 01/09/2015 - 08:28
#69
@Krakob :
CTR Max for bomb
@Krakob :
CTR Max for bomb only ! This item help a lot new bomber. And this shield cannot be viable on Tier3 (Any attack can break it and touch you. Also 1 star shield can't shield bump enemies.)
And BK set is rare even if you have it, most of player never see a book of dark ritual.
So yeah this idea is OP but whatever Chaos set is OP too.
It be nerf like this : 1* to 2* => Ctr med / 3* to 5* Ctr low.
@Holy :
Nice idea about buff Mad bomber set. It was more usefull without negative stats.
Fr, 01/09/2015 - 09:05
#70
But it would be viable in T3. A large amount of T3 players use Swiftstrike, which would basically be the same thing. Swiftstrike can indeed take a single hit every once in a while but it's not something one can rely on. This one would of course most often be pierced and you'd take damage from hits, but then again bombers aren't really the ones who use their shields the most and as stated before, people don't rely on low* shields when they actually need to shield.
And BK set is rare even if you have it, most of player never see a book of dark ritual.
It's true that it's rare but it's still very possible for most Vanguards to get a 3* BK set. You can get the Black Kat Hood with a mere 80 Ancient Pages and with 50 more pages and about 5k E paid for a Margrel run, you can get a whisker.
So yeah this idea is OP but whatever Chaos set is OP too.
One OP item doesn't justify another. The two words "but" and "whatever" put together do absolutely not have any place in a serious balance discussion.
So, 01/11/2015 - 01:21
#71
To be fair, you can't shield
To be fair, you can't shield when you're charging anyway. So a shield that gives out universal CTR would be pretty wonderful. Although I agree in that max is a little extreme. Just low CTR at 5 stars ought to be enough. Making it a kind of counterpart to the BTS.
So, 01/11/2015 - 03:12
#72
The idea was that it would be bomb CTR, though. To keep it in line with BTS, it would have to start at low and be raised to Medium at 5*
Mo, 01/12/2015 - 13:56
#73
.
Sleep Haze Bomb.
gg no re
Sa, 01/17/2015 - 05:12
#74
I agree with Papaya. Bombs should also damage the users, and any party members. Last I checked, bombs were not selective in what they damage, and friendly fire was as deadly as hostile fire. ...or blast, whatever.
Okay, okay. I third CBB's Jelly Bombs idea, at least in a general sense, because I've always thought the Jelly set needs a weapon but the existing Jelly Swords and Jelly Guns don't really look or feel like they're really related. The basic Jelly Bomb could be conceptually very simple, just behaving like a dying Blast Cube, but has upgrades that differentiate it from Shard bombs. All Jelly Bombs would inflict Pierce damage with their soft, squishy bomblets. Upgrades include Poison and a Freeze variants, where the bomblets stick to any monsters they collide with before they explode. More important would be the Quicksilver Bomb whose little submunitions zip around chaotically and zap targets, and the Oiler Bomb whose submunitions slide outward a significant distance, smearing flammable oil on the floor before lighting it up.
3-star Jelly Bomb (basic Pierce cluster bomb)
4-star Sour Jelly Bomb (Poison variant)
5-star Compound Gelatiniser (Poison & Fire variant)
4-star Mint Jelly Bomb (Freeze variant)
5-star Thundersnow Gelatiniser (Shock & Freeze variant)
Sa, 01/17/2015 - 20:23
#75
throwable bombs
Imagine smashing a bomb at someone like the annoying Gremlin bombers do. Would totally become a bomber if you could do that.
Mi, 01/21/2015 - 12:29
#76
@ Mnemo
If bombs damaged the user then no one would ever use them except maybe to troll party members by killing them with the blasts.
Mi, 01/21/2015 - 14:19
#77
I wouldn't mind a bomb that hurt the user actually. If it had a small radius, truly massive damage (3x big angry bomb maybe?) and didn't hurt team members, it wouldn't be so bad.
Do, 01/22/2015 - 07:49
#78
I'd like a line of Buff
I'd like a line of Buff Bombs.
They would have a small blast radius + slow your walking speed + take a longer time to charge, so basically like the vortex bombs. But you'd create a small "bubble" which will buff players standing inside. After awhile, the bubbles would burst and whoever's inside will get a buff that'd last 5 or 10 seconds or something. Depending on the bomb, you'd get a walking speed, attack or defense buff, or a universal asi or ctr buff.
Also, a Healing Bomb. The bubble would remove status effects while the explosion would heal. The balance to the healing bomb is that it'd only heal for a pip or two and you'd have to be in the explosion, not to mention the slow charge time/blast radius. So in a Vana type scenario, it'd mostly be useful for healing statuses and giving you a slight edge. Which, if you know how to handle Vana, the healing bomb's pointless, but if you're new, it'd make you more competitive.
Sa, 01/24/2015 - 21:35
#79
...
...
face- >.< -palm
You can tell I'm being totally serious when I use the way things work IRL as basis for how they should work in a proudly whimsical game. Yep. Toootally... seeriooous.
Oooh, I love the idea of buff bombs! A "haste" flavour could give some mix of ASI, MSI and/or CTR. I guess an offense-oriented one that boosts weapon performance and a defense-oriented one that boosts damage and/or status resistance would be the most likely to be made. I could totally get into a "luck buff" that increases chance of Fire Crystals coming out of boxes. :[ How about a buff that speeds up Sprite cooldowns?
Many have suggested bomb CTR and/or damage-boosting shield and moar bomb-oriented armors, and I'd like to see that. Since the "gun update" included global mechanical changes, I'd like to see bombs get a modest "swipe" attack, where you swing the bomb like a short-ranged sword for light knockback and even lighter damage. I just adore the idea of using a live explosive as a blunt object to beat on monsters with. (or not so blunt, in the case of the Spine Cone line)
I'd also like more "indecisive" bombs, perhaps a whole type dedicated to them. It's not focused on direct damage, status infliction or manipulating monster movement, but rather tries to balance between all 3 of those. The status-inflicting Shard bombs are kinda close, I think, but bombs that behave like Firecracker, Cold Snap & Static Flash would be just about perfect. Firecracker is definitely among my favourite little T1 weapons, so higher-star functionalikes would be keen.
Personally, I'd like to see such bombs reverse the direction of blast, so they yank monsters toward them instead of blowing away- not holding them there like Vortex bombs or flinchlocking like Spine Cone line does, but just pinching them together to help keep them clustered while you kite them. I'd also like to see the status effect be randomised like on the Sealed Sword, not necessarily on the same bomb as the reversed blast idea, though perhaps limiting it to status effects that don't mess with monster movement, such as Fire and Poison.
Indecisive examples:
The Compound Bomb is an alternative upgrade to the Spine Cone, dealing less direct damage but adding chances to poison monsters and set them aflame.
(mechanically, an ordinary "trades damage for status effect" variant except that it has two status effects)
*** Compound Sharpnel Spreader
**** Compound Spineapple
***** Compound Claymost
The Sealed Sapper is a curious demolition device, with great untapped power. It ticks ominously.
(mechanically, a Shard Bomb with randomly chosen status effect)
** Sealed Sapper
*** Super Sealed Sapper
**** Heavy Sealed Sapper
***** Deadly Sealed Sapper
The Void Bomb is the result of an attempt to upgrade Graviton Bomb technology for increased yield, the results of which are mixed. The effect is much more intense, eagerly devouring everything in its reach, but it's immediately cut short by the bomb swallowing itself into oblivion. The rift seems to crave light and warmth most of all, dealing Shadow damage and possibly flash-freezing anything caught in its area of effect.
(mechanically, like Blast bomb but it sucks instead of blowing, and is Shadow & Freeze flavoured)
**** Void Bomb
***** Annihilator
Sa, 01/24/2015 - 23:52
#80
Well, since this is all
Well, since this is all fantasy, how about a "Smart Bomb"?
It has a tiny blast radius, like those gremlin grenadiers. You drop it and it'll home in on the closest enemy.
The trick is you have to have the right distance/timing, otherwise, it'll explode before reaching them, or if it reaches them too early, they'll fly beyond the enemy and explode harmlessly behind them. They can also be stopped by obstacles.
So potentially, they'd be good if you're fighting a huge Lichen Colony in a JK run, but against JK itself, they might home in on the minis and not be as effective. Or that stage is so small that they tend to fly pass JK.
And hey, if we have a smart bomb, how about a "Dumb Bomb"?
The center of the explosion will be on the Bomber. So they can "drop" the bomb anywhere, but then the explosive charge will be centered on the bomber. So you can't drop a bomb and then run far away. You'd have to bring yourself close to the enemy in order for them to get caught in the blast.
It would become very situational that way. Most bombers would still prefer Chaos because of the good hybrid capabilities and they get CTR Max anyway so long as they have heated their bombs. Mad Bomber would become interesting for people who want to support bomb and maybe only bring one piece, but it would be the opposite for dedicated bombers.