given swords in forum- viable or trash??
Mo, 03/09/2015 - 21:41
ive tried the hunting blade and regretted using it.
Is the vile striker the same ?? Or is it better?? I mainly need a fun 2 use and powerful sword for vana...
Also is CIV viable??
Thanks in advance!
Di, 03/10/2015 - 02:38
#2
There are two differences between DVS and WHB:
1. DVS has a bit higher attack speed on the combo. As for the charge, it might be the case as well but I don't really know.
2. WHB has interruption on one of the hits in the middle of the charge whereas DVS does not, making the WHB charge somewhat safer to use.
All in all, DVS is a decent sword but it's nothing compared to Brandishes or Sealed Swords.
CIV has its uses, but it's generally obsolete unless you're a bomber/gunner who doesn't use gear which gives universal bonuses like Chaos and you run nothing but FSC (or other Undead-themed levels).
Di, 03/10/2015 - 08:04
#3
If you don't like hunting blade you're probably not going to like dread venom striker. They're basically the same weapon.
The "fun to use and powerful swords for Vanaduke" are combuster, glacius, voledge, warmaster rocket hammer and divine avenger. All are about as viable when it comes to smacking stuff around.
Di, 03/10/2015 - 07:44
#4
......
CIV gets it's max DPS on Howlitzers, Deadnaughts, and frozen or cornered undead. In general it is better to use other elemental swords (except maybe the FOV which works best in the same situations as the CIV but with more power and against all elemental weak enemies).
The elemental brandishes are very useful.
Ice allows you to setup more charges.
Fire provides high DPS.
Shock gives a middle ground between these.
The Divine avenger is also good since the charge gives wide knockback and lots of damage.
In FSC the Vile Striker is used mainly as a synergy weapon with allies where you deal poison to counter healers and lower enemy damage while your allies deal more damage to enemies. It is also good at taking out the oilers and ash tails that are resisted by elemental weapons and either take little damage from blitz or just dodge about. In addition to this it works well on Vana during the Mask Phases.
Di, 03/10/2015 - 07:51
#5
obligatory
* direct link to Dread Venom Striker vs. Wild Hunting Blade (both are fun, neither is great)
* direct link to Leviathan vs. CIV (CIV loses, and Leviathan isn't great either)
Di, 03/10/2015 - 08:06
#6
@ Bopp
That is part of the problem with SK capping the added damage values and family bonuses.
If Family bonuses and Weapon damage bonuses were separate then we could have weapons that deal +12 instead of capping at +6 with leftover numbers.
Specialist gear would become useful again and the market for family specific UVs would be worth even more.
__________________________
One thing to consider with CIV vs Levi argument is that the CIV gives you the boost without making you use glass cannon armor.
This argument might hold more water if Resists vs Damage taken calculations were different.
Sadly this game doesn't reward tanking armors as much glass cannon armors and barely gives you a reason to use them. (Not much point in Dread Skelly when you can get more damage and nearly the same defense with Snarby)
Di, 03/10/2015 - 09:39
#7
agree and disagree
I agree about damage bonuses. Something should be done to make family-specific damage bonuses desirable and relevant again. It would require some programming changes, but probably not extreme ones, to simply increase a weapon's damage vs. certain families. For example, we could take away Sentenza's gremlin bonus while altering its damage table so that it inflicted more damage when it hit a gremlin.
(My version of history: The family-specific damage bonuses are holdovers from an earlier era of Spiral Knights, when it was difficult to get blanket damage bonuses. When the game launched, there were no Barbarous Thorn Shield, Snarbolax armor, Black Kat armor, or damage trinkets. Chaos and Shadowsun were weaker. And so on. Skolver's sword damage+2 was really unusual and really strong compared to the competition, and "pros" used Skolver heavily for that reason. And Mad Bomber still had a purpose in life.)
I don't understand your argument about CIV. You can get damage+6 without glass cannon armor --- for example, Skolver and BTS. Or trinkets and sprite perks. Or undead UVs on your weapons.
Di, 03/10/2015 - 11:11
#8
....
Skolver and BTS aren't considered the best defense against shadow damage. Having the damage bonus on the CIV allows for respectable damage while letting you use more defensive gear like Dread Skelly.
Now the CIV is irrelevant due to many armors/items/sprites allowing for players to easily reach the +6 damage cap. If the damage calculations were changed or it got a large mechanic change it might be made relevant again.
Di, 03/10/2015 - 11:23
#9
I think that we basically agree
Your second paragraph is the point that I was trying to make.
As for your first paragraph, just replace Skolver with Snarbolax (or Shadowsun and another gun damage+2) if you want shadow protection. You're still avoiding glass cannon armor. But actually my view is that we should be talking about status resistances more than damage protections. If you want to use your CIV against undead, are they fire-themed, freeze-themed, or shock-themed? That's what I care about, defensively. But this is getting a little off-topic.
Di, 03/10/2015 - 11:58
#10
@ Bopp
I prefer my DA and Magma driver against undead.
Many of the weapon specific armors have only ONE status resist (except snarby but neither of those are higher than Dread, or Mad bomber which no one cares about either anymore) meaning they are the middle ground between glass cannon and a solid wall.
Di, 03/10/2015 - 12:47
#11
agree
I prefer my DA and Magma driver against undead.
Do you mean, as opposed to CIV? I strongly agree. I never use my CIV except to run tests.
And this is bad design, because CIV is specialized to undead, and thus should be (nearly) the best weapon for undead? I strongly agree.
The other point is not worth arguing about, because it has no resolution. It depends too much on personal preferences regarding play style, versatility, frugality, etc. Cheers.
Mi, 03/11/2015 - 10:42
#12
@ Bopp
I might get one since I main guns and a quick and hard hitting sword (that doesn't light me on fire) would be appreciated for the moments when I am running a gunner set and would like to easily take out a Deadnaught. Still I'd probably get a bunch of other weapons long before that one.
Mi, 03/11/2015 - 11:00
#13
or use Blitz
Or, if you're a gunner carrying Blitz, then you could charge that at the dreadnaught.
Mi, 03/11/2015 - 11:26
#14
@ Bopp
Deadnaughts usually spawn in with lots of support, I don't want to risk missing or getting hit with a status when using the charge. The CIV also has a much quicker recovery time after using a charge, the charge of spin swords in general are also fairly defensive due to their radial knockback.
I don't run with HP trinkets so risking any HP isn't my style. (I'm usually the last to die even on teams where I'm the only one without trinkets)
Mi, 03/11/2015 - 11:54
#15
okay
Your point of view is reasonable. If I were in that situation I would be wise to evaluate such strategies too.
I'm usually soloing, so dreadnaughts are easy to dodge. I can leave them until the end and kill them with whatever I want. And I usually have damage+6, at which point even Leviathan would out-damage CIV against undead. But instead I have something like Combuster, which kills them plenty fast.
Mi, 03/11/2015 - 13:07
#16
@ Bopp
I don't own BK (5 star), Chaos, or even own an Acheron. Mostly because it would make me feel cheap.
The ability to stay tanky via damage resists and status resists while having a reliably strong weapon (for undead Slaying) by my side is appealing, even more so when it frees me up from having to use a set geared towards sword use. Thanks to the new gunner gear and sprites I can potentially pair up the shade gear and the CIV to have a gun mained set with rounded gun buffs while I keep my sprite perk geared towards sword CTR for quick damage all while keeping good damage and status resist.
Mi, 03/11/2015 - 13:17
#17
yep
Yep, that's reasonable. (And it's nice that not everyone is wearing Black Kat and Chaos.) Cheers.
Fr, 03/13/2015 - 01:56
#18
ok then
thanks first of all.
after reading everything , i have decided to get the dvs.and is the hunting blade,NOT the whb,does interuption??coz if it does then i will give the hunting blade another chance.. And what would you suggest to get??
Fr, 03/13/2015 - 05:43
#19
already answered
And what would you suggest to get??
Are you asking about DVS vs. WHB? In post #5 I gave you a link to a detailed comparison of DVS and WHB.
Are you also asking about the difference in interruption between Hunting Blade and Wild Hunting Blade? I don't know. But if you're concerned about the quality of your sword, you shouldn't really be considering these anyway.
Are you asking about swords in general? My guide discusses all of that.
Fr, 03/13/2015 - 08:31
#20
.......
The WHB has a massive flinch rate on the charge.
This is difficult to pull off since most teammates use Brandishes and Flourishes to knock things around.
It does work pretty well on turret style monsters like Gun puppies but it is usually faster and simpler to use a Leviathan blade charge or a FOV charge.
If you do manage to get a more mobile monster caught in the charge their feet may not even touch the ground due to flinch rate. This blade works best with teammates who respect other people's strategies. Try to form a SK team of friends you have in real life and use some service like Skype to communicate during battle. Weapons like the WHB, Vortex bombs, and Catalyzers work best if you have easier communication between teammates.
The DVS is a good weapon due to it's normal damage and poison. Even though it has a low flinch rate you can likely poison enemies before they hit you, thus reducing the damage they can deal. The DVS also works good (but not excellent) on undead and fiends, something the Obsidian edge can't do. This weapon is also appreciated during the Vana mask phases since it can deal constant damage and will let your allies deal more Blitz charge damage (best in full party though).
You can get some answers to these in a thread a little bit down: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/108650
Also look up "Bopp's sword guide"
From what I hear, vile striker doesn't interrupt on the charge like the hunting blade, and while it has poison, still a poor weapon. It's normal damage, and doesn't have a charge attack of awesome DPS like brandishes. CIV is useless.
Most people don't even use swords on vana, he's circled by fireballs in the later stages, although elemental swords are often used for primary damage in the levels leading up to vana in FSC. Best DPS eelmental sword for FSC is actually the fire Combuster. Even though the zombs don't catch on fire, they "ride" all the explosions of the charge attack, which is elemental damage. Shock and freeze ones don't do that as well. I take Voltedge, but that's because I use it with en Electron Vortex to help hold the zombs together.
For Vana, a Combuster and a Blitz will get you into any FSC party pretty much.