Can we stop telling people to get combuster?
mar, 12/08/2015 - 19:56
Sure it's probably the "right" thing for them to use because it's super easy and they'll be able to just spam charges but then everyone I go on runs with just uses combuster all the time.
I'm thinking Triglav. We'll make triglav out to be a truly beastly weapon and tell people that it's the best of the best, and they'll never know the difference, and then when I inevitably find them in game it'll be like a breath of fresh sword hitting me in the face, literally in lockdown but mostly figuratively since I don't often play lockdown. Winmillion would be another good option to set them onto.
Also bomber. We should tell people that bomber is some kind of super class, and that the support they offer with it is invaluable and will make them godly. Irontech destroyer and shard bombs would be so nice to see in action on a knight that isn't me because that's already every other run. OK more than every other run.
Then when they get to 5* they won't be able to run ahead of me and kill everything before I leave the spawn. It will literally be the brightest future I've ever imagined.
mar, 12/08/2015 - 21:31
#2
If you want to convince people to go bomber, start dropping vortexes. Everyone loves vortexes.
And Triglav is... bleh. Really really bleh. I just point to-be-hipsters at the Divine Avenger.
mar, 12/08/2015 - 21:48
#3
But then, if we say "Triglav = Epic", they might still think "Bleh. I don't want to play PvP yet." and choose something else like Combuster because that's the second most recommended sword.
So if you want to do that, do something else... Like maybe "Fearless Rigadoon!" or "Wild Hunting Blade!" or "Cold Iron Vanquisher!" or some other sword that isn't used often but can still be obtained from regular HoH recipes.
mer, 12/09/2015 - 08:29
#4
not entirely serious
The tone of the original post is not entirely serious. But sure, let's take it seriously.
If you give players "bad" advice, they will eventually realize it and stop trusting you. So you have to be upfront with them about your agenda. If I had your agenda, I would try this tactic:
Much of the fun of this game is trying different weapon styles. Some are easier than others. Some are more fun than others. You should not get multiple 5-star weapons of the same style before sampling all 5-star weapons. Therefore you must get a 5-star troika before you get two 5-star brandishes.
With the Chaos buff, troika charges are more practical than ever, and they're pretty powerful and fun. Once players try them, maybe they will keep them around. Those regular attacks are painful, though.
mer, 12/09/2015 - 09:05
#5
DA master-race
Actually the DA has more damage per charge attack and fires over gaps. Forget Combuster and Triglav....
mer, 12/09/2015 - 10:49
#6
I think that's the point
Yes, DA does more damage than Triglav (except against beasts and gremlins). The point of the thread, as I understand it, is to get players to try less-common weapons such as Triglav, and appreciate them for what they are.
For example, I'm not a fan of freeze, but even I have to admit that it enables a special play style. Triglav lets you try that play style, and DA doesn't. Statuses are more interesting than raw damage, gameplay-wise.
mer, 12/09/2015 - 15:42
#7
Thread is half serious, half joking. The result to 99% of "What should I get?" threads is combuster. It's also the "correct" answer since it starts out very strong and drastically extends your general damage-dealing capabilities but it's also the boring answer and it's not like combuster is actually that special.
I tend to have similar success rates/speeds regardless of what I actually end up using, with the exception of when I min-max VERY specifically for the content in question (which doesn't use brandishes as a key factor). I've noticed a very similar trend in other players- they just adapt to whatever they choose and it's fine.
Zeddy was able to run ICMF without a gun just as fast as I was able to run it with my DA+Carbine loadout.. you know that walkway on the second level with all the gates? Drop dark retribution by it and you don't even need a friend. Arena before the boss? Nitronome/Irontech/Bab can clear out all of the blocks behind the switches before the arena even starts. Tons of little things like that made up for the fact that his bombs were "bad".
More importantly
Ok so this is hilarious part-
"If you give players "bad" advice, they will eventually realize it and stop trusting you."
As individuals, yes... the issue is that most people come here, ask one question after doing zero research and then trust any post that looks like what we write because the Spiral Knights forum is strangely amazing when it comes to grammar-- we sound like we know what we're talking about.
But seriously don't lie to people just because they're gullible, even if it's funny.
mer, 12/09/2015 - 21:18
#8
motivation
By the way, is the original motivation for this thread my recent advice to Qisheng/Fiquel here?
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/112875
In case you don't know, that thread was the third in a series. In the earlier threads I presented facts and advice without telling him what to get. In the end he insisted on a simple answer without explanation. And my simple answer was Combuster, Iron Slug, Chaos, BTS.
More on-topic, it is difficult to imagine the scenario in which a simple answer would involve Triglav.
mer, 12/09/2015 - 23:43
#9
The only weapons you need if
The only weapons you need if you just started
Darkness Brandish line (Acheron)
Needle Autogun line (Blitz)
Wolf set armor (esp for beginners)
Swifstrike shield
A guaranteed set that will get you through most of the game, as well as easiest set to obtain.
Being this your base set, then its easier to get the other good stuff.
well actually its a bit exaggerated, but meh, muh opinion
jeu, 12/10/2015 - 07:23
#10
@ Azu
Yeah.... you still need a 4 and 5 star shield to pass the Hall of Heroes rank up missions. That stuff will only get you through 3/5ths of the game (not counting shadow lairs) before you get walled not by OP monsters but by Spiral HQ.
jeu, 12/10/2015 - 14:17
#11
@Bopp
You know me far too well. You also made the correct call with that player. They'll start out with combuster and wolver, and end up with iron slug-- which is one of the best setups to give someone in that position... but it got me thinking about this.
@Azurestratos
The whole "get to FSC and farm" thing is somewhat antiquated at this point, and should really be more focused on dreams and nightmares. Valiance alone would be better for this-
Valiance
Padded line -> shock+piercing+pure damage (negative ice resistance)
Swiftstrike -> Aegis/Ironmight/Omega Shell
If you can find a friend that specializes in crowd control, you can take on the role of finishing off stray enemies and dealing slow damage to everything, prioritizing survival. This lets you be far more helpful than brandish knights until you can eventually build something like vortex+slug or ash of agni+dark retribution to use along with your valiance.
All early fire crystals would go into heating Valiance and then whatever shield you chose if it wasn't Aegis... Why Aegis to begin with? Because it would save you crowns and therefore grinding time, allowing you to progress at a much faster rate-- 35K gets you a few orbs and the differences between shields is fairly mediocre, especially if you plan to just back down into swiftstrike again anyway.
---
The only unrealistic thing about this setup is the expectations it puts on the player. This is partially mitigated by way of the fact that their only weapon is literally one of the safest possible things we could tell them to go after that also happens to force them to take longer and therefore practice, but something like the brandishes would let them deal much higher damage and has a much lower learning curve making it more of an ideal.
mar, 12/29/2015 - 15:56
#12
First of all, @Bopp:
When I
First of all, @Bopp:
When I first read Bopp's post on my previous thread, I was offended. However, I realized that everything he put forth was completely accurate and could not have been presented in a less offensive way. However, I do research things before I go to the forums, and use asking as a second option, but I am too unnecessarily paranoid that I will choose the "wrong" item, I almost always attempt to get advice from more experienced players, then question their decisions, then ask again, etc.. This may also may be due to my lack of knowledge of abbreviations (e.g. CTR (which I now know is Charge Time Reduction)).
Now, @Six-From-Syrup
I personally think you could tell any new player to choose any weapon(s) and they would go for it, unless they have heard contradicting advice. If I were told right now that the Callahan was the best weapon to use in Sovereign Slime runs, I would probably go for it. Personally, I think that any weapon won't hurt a player too much, so many won't be able to tell the power difference between a Triglav or Combuster.
jeu, 12/31/2015 - 21:27
#13
I like Sonic Unleashed, screw you
So I should get an Iron Slug and sell my Combuster? Can I at least keep my BTB?
Too late, I got a Combuster.