Spiral Knights - Suggestion for new weapon/shield for the SK: Gauntlets and Boots

Suggestion for new weapon/shield for the SK: Gauntlets and Boots

15 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]

Do, 12/27/2012 - 13:54

Zeyez

despite the game being based on technology, the game itself proposes that all knights they are dependent on the weapons to be able to do something, as if their bodies were too weak to be able to fight without them
the game could bring as fourth type of weapon the whole 'gloves and boots' that would modify a portion of mobility and style of the player, allowing the knight to perform some new moves in exchange for some consequences

* use this type of weapon disables the use shield, because this type of weapon can use guard, I mean, this set consumes both the space and the weapon shield
best describing:

>> gloves will be used to defend, but the defense was not perfect, just negating most of the damage (say 90%, after applying armor resistance), the rest will be received by the knight, but while blocking, do not will receive any status effect until the guard break
>>after the guard, the knight become buffed for one strike (+50% damage), motivating him to block sometimes, if needed (can be used in charged attack, but need perform the 'Dash Charge' [will explain later]
>>the health of the 'glove-boot guard' is big enough to block 1 of mace vanaduke without receiving additional damage or status effect (beyond the 10% already mentioned)
>> unlike the shields, the gloves-boots do not have any resistance buff (can be changed after the discussion, if needed)
>>the knight still have the 'Guard Bump', like the shield when raises, but the 'Shield Charge', the ability to cancel the strike to start charging animation will loss, being changed by Dash (holding the guard and press the attack button trigger the Dash, and is in the direction knight who the face) ... looking for some way, you still can do 'Dash charge' (after the dash, holding the attack button make the knight start to charge)

* Unlike the other weapons, can give some bonus universal, like 'movement speed', 'charge attack Reduction' or 'weapon damage'

this set can enhance the fighting style of the knight, but has the side effect of having a shorter range than all other weapons in the normal strokes
you can switch to another weapon and still receive the benefits for wearing the 'glove-boot' set, but still can not hold the shield
obviously, you can not carry more than 1 set of 'glove-boot' simultaneously, then have to choose which of the 3 types (which will detail later) to suit your knight

* all weapons of this category can give stun effect, add more or less depending on the type of damage and charged attack

are 3 types I have in mind right now:

>> Pure Normal type damage: based on punch and kicks, charge attack is dash two squares to faced direction, pushing everything in path, and give a nice kick in all of the target (can hit two or three times, depending on the size and position of the target), have a high chance to make a strong stun and high interruption
this weapon give medium movement speed bonus in five star version, low bonus in 2-4* versions

>> Split Normal and Elemental damage: based on punches, but more area of effect, the charge attack is 2 punches on the ground, making two shockwaves (area of effect like 3 * bomb the four star version of the 'glove-boot' ), the first shockwave can give high interruption and a high chance to make middle stun, the second give a huge knockback, same damage, pushing away 3-4 squares
this version give low movement speed bonus, and in five star version, universal low charge attack reduction

>> Split Normal and Piercing damage: based on punches too, but is more single target oriented, the charge attack is a one square Dash and a Uppercut, this one give total interruption to the target and very high (if not 100%) to make a strong Stun, the range of the strike barely can hit more than one target... but give huge damage and even the vanaduke can be knocked back with this
this type give low movement speed bonus, and in five star version, universal low weapon damage

how to make this glove-boots (or weapon/shield, whatever)? exchanging the recipe for crowns and prestige points, when each mark of the prestige unlock one of the recipes to sell, but you spend some prestige to buy
example:
you need 1000 prestige to unlock the 2 star version, but pay 100 prestige for each recipe buyed
5000 prestige to unlock 4 star version, paying 500 prestige for each recipe
12000 prestige to unlock 5 star version, paying 1200 prestige for each recipe

this allow the prestige points to be used and give limits how many recipes can be purchased in NPC (showing like them have limited stock)
or, at least, make to think how can be used this thing =x

and here we go to the summary, with benefits and drawbacks:
{and some jokes}

- the guard don't nullifies all the damage, make you thinking if you learn to use this set right in the school
- you spend one weapon slot and shield to own, preventing you become a 'Master of Fists', wielding all of the three varietys
- you need to Dash for make the new 'Guard charge' work, sometimes can pushing you to the Core faster than you can scream "AHHhhhh..."
- less range of attack than any other weapon, making you angry because can't hit the switch after little wall, or mini gremlins than make you turn like crazy
- don't have shadow damage type, unless you learn the 'Satsui no Hadou' to make some of your punches/kicks do this

* fighter looking is cool, or hot, depends on how much he moves
* give some way to make the prestige points to be useful beyond than "won horse insignia in the side of nick"... have horses here? ah, Trojans... but Trojans are enemies... "mind overheated"
* can show than not all knights are weaks in strenght, than can have a option fight without weapons, if cornered

+ give some useful universal bonuses to the knight, besides he is stucked in the planet and the officers never talked about another planets
+ give damage buff (+50% for one strike) after block some damage, "Revenge is a dish best served cold", but that don't work in fire theme stages
+ Dash can save you from of imminent damage, or bump on your companion in the way, make him drop his sword in the process
+ more damage and attack speed than common weapons, 'close and personal' is rule for the wielder, and get closer every time you smash him... seems a good running exercise

things that can be discussed (or, at least, things than i can't know how to proceed):

>>this new weapon can be treated either as weapon, than shield, so can won Defensive and Ofensive UVs? and the Defensive works like shield or armor/helmet? the damage dealt can be used as defense?
>>prestige points can be used like this? unlocking some recipes being buyed in depot for crowns? or need to be a fixed value, following the basic concept?
>>how will work in lockdown? guardian looks can use the shield and the dash still works if the wielder have the glove-boots on, and the another classes?

Do, 12/27/2012 - 14:43

Little-Juances

A shield that can't really defend, nor attack, but provides a nice bonus: swiftstrike buckler
Use it as reference before throwing so many bonuses at those gauntlets. They sound overpowered

Do, 12/27/2012 - 19:12

Zeyez

Little-juances

the gloves can guard more than swiftstrike, but you still receive some damage, even you block like crazy

and, if you don't have seem, for wielding this, you lost the shield slot and one weapon slot, so, if only want use for buff, you only will have 3 weapon slots
besides can looks little overpowered, i talked nothing about the damage beyond than damage type and the piercing type charged attack can be really powerful, so, can be changed
i talked about have more damage can common weapons because of the extreme low attack range
example: Leviathan Blade have length of 1,5 meters and your arm only 0,5 meters, so, the strike sword have 2 meters (arm plus weapon), while the gloves have only 0,5 meter, not counting the movement in sequence (moving some steps in each strike)

swiftstrike give 3 universal points for attack speed, eating the shield slot, but still work as a shield, this 'gloves-boots' give 2 universal bonus in five star version, one of them locked in movement speed, and use shield and one weapon slot

can give some example for show your point? maybe I'm blind to find faults
"the creator never will talk bad about your creation, because he already used all this point of views"

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 04:49

Hexzyle

@Zeyez

the gloves can guard more than swiftstrike, but you still receive some damage, even you block like crazy

Nope, I can block attacks and keep the swiftstrike intact, and make sure I give it time to recharge, and take no damage whatsoever, while this "block" idea of yours means you ALWAYS takes damage, regardless of how weak the attack is.

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 06:09

Zeyez

hexzyle

that's the point
you won some movement, attack or charge bonuses, and the Dash ability, but your guard only reduce the damage, making you have to adopt a more evasive style, avoiding die only in "chip damage" (what is called in fight type games)

if you trust your ability to guard and do not like to deal with this side effect, remains using shield, but if you want to try to be evasive and/or enjoy the unique bonus, this set can help

some bombers can like this idea (before start asking about it, i'm Levi swordmaster x= )

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 10:51

Luguiru

How does this favor bombers?

Because it forces you to take damage to get advantages or it fails to fully protect you while active?

News flash. Bombers are unable to shield or do any action while charging a bomb, including shielding, and need their shield to fully defend against attacks. Sword users gain the most from this and they already have too many advantages. Sports at eleven.

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 10:52

Klipik

<(?_?)>

If this takes up our shield slot and we switch to another weapon, how do we shield cancel?

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 11:21

Zeyez

providing some answers:

luguiru:

"Because it forces you to take damage to get advantages or it fails to fully protect you while active?"
fail fully protect, because only reduce 90% of the damage received, after armor reduction count
but remember than this guard have a lot of health, like omega shield, and every block, you get +50% damage bonus to strike once
so, you can exchange some health for more power

"How does this favor bombers?"
the bombers can spend one weapon slot (and the shield) for won some movement speed or charge attack reduction while charging the bomb
is a permanent bonus for all weapons and for the knight

Klipik:

"If this takes up our shield slot and we switch to another weapon, how do we shield cancel?"
you still can block, still can "Guard Cancel", like shield, the problem is you will receive some damage, the only thing you will lost here is "Guard Charge" become "Dash Charge"
but... probably you can Dash if try "Guard Cancel", because use the same command, good point x_x'

how to "Guard Cancel" without trigger the Dash ability?...
requiring hold the guard at least for one second to enable the Dash, maybe

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 11:48

Luguiru

So it suits bombers because it takes your shield slot to do worse than shields they could be using instead and provides charge bonuses which are useless with Volcanic or Mad armor sets and H10 bombs.

Get rid of this nonsense.

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 15:21

Zeyez

nonsense? -_-'

Luguiru:

then it's impossible to mix sets?
it's impossible change one part for another, if have low/high charge bonus in the bomb?
example: low charge UV + mid charge lv 10 bomb + mid charge helmet + low charge glove-boot = max, and you have coat free to choice

even you have max charge, you can look the medium movement speed bonus, or low-low movement/damage on this varietys, instead only seek for the quicksilver series for the movement bonuses

and I insist:
is a trade-off

can be good, can be bad
+ you move faster
+ won ability movement Dash
+ the glove-boots can be used as weapons
* you still have "Guard Bump" and "Guard Cancel" from the shields
- you still receive some damage while guard is active (10%)
- you spend shield slot and one weapon slot for wielding this
- extreme low range, if look another close weapons

you use Divine Avenger because of the damage and charged attack
you use Brandish series because of the projectile charged attack
you use Flourish because of the full piercing damage
you use the Gran Faust because of the damage and is the only weapon that can cause curse
you use "Trollaris" because than can trollz everything in mid/long range
...

what's look so wrong for you call "nonsense"?
nobody is forced to use this weapon/shield, if implemented

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 19:34

#10

Hexzyle

+ you move faster + won

+ you move faster
+ won ability movement Dash
+ the glove-boots can be used as weapons
* you still have "Guard Bump" and "Guard Cancel" from the shields
- you still receive some damage while guard is active (10%)
- you spend shield slot and one weapon slot for wielding this
- extreme low range, if look another close weapons

1. More movement speed is OP, means you're untouchable by mecha knights and phantoms, you can outrun projectiles, and strafing devilites is a breeze
2. Excuse me, have you even heard all the complaints about the dash attack that the hammer has? Now everyone can dash! How will this even work in lockdown, if you have to give up a shield slot to use it?
3. That's hardly a bonus if they're cruddy weapons, seeing as they take up a weapon slot that could be better used for a more effective weapon
5. If you dodge most attacks, this isn't even a disadvantage. With the MSI and the dash ability, this is way too weak a disadvantage.
6. For someone with 4 weapon slots, the fourth weapon is usually "the odd one out", which is rarely used.
7. This point doesn't make any sense.

Because knights are not powerful enough, we need more buffs -.- #sarcasm

Great, so the 5 of the most OP weapons in the game just got a buff?

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 21:33

#11

Zeyez

well...

"1. More movement speed is OP, means you're untouchable by mecha knights and phantoms, you can outrun projectiles, and strafing devilites is a breeze"
the speed can be overpowered in large maps, but the speed bonuses is so high than i expected?
sword damage won 7% for each 'low' bonus, i think than can be 7% movement too (14% don't looks so fast)

"2. Excuse me, have you even heard all the complaints about the dash attack that the hammer has? Now everyone can dash! How will this even work in lockdown, if you have to give up a shield slot to use it?"
i questioning myself before about it, in first post:
">>how will work in lockdown? guardian looks can use the shield and the dash still works if the wielder have the glove-boots on, and the another classes?"
i have no idea how to make this works here... if the Dash ability will be disabled or even the equipment banned from the Lockdown

"3. That's hardly a bonus if they're cruddy weapons, seeing as they take up a weapon slot that could be better used for a more effective weapon"
remember the charge attack writed before? they have some utility beyond than only giving buffs, like Stun effect
still your choice wield or not

"5. If you dodge most attacks, this isn't even a disadvantage. With the MSI and the dash ability, this is way too weak a disadvantage."
that's the point, you lost some guard for won some mobility (caged rooms can be your nightmare)
unless all the game can be easily ended using this, i can't see problem here
and remember: for using the Dash, you need hold the guard at least for 1 second (countermeasures against the conflict with the "Guard Cancel")

"6. For someone with 4 weapon slots, the fourth weapon is usually "the odd one out", which is rarely used."
the basic combo: 2-3 weapon damages and one side type, naturally is a pistol, for swordmasters, or sword, for gunners and bombers...
make a weapon/shield, that will never be used as weapon, not seem worthwhile... =/

"7. This point doesn't make any sense."
make
if reach, make some damage, if not, you only will jab the air... obvious reasons -_-'

"Great, so the 5 of the most OP weapons in the game just got a buff?"
what kind of weapon you want listen from me for give examples?
Cautery Sword? Super Stun Gun? Proto Bomb? come on

i'm not trying giving only buffs for all knights
i'm trying only to make a fourth weapon type, who can change the playability of the SK, without being overpowered
drop the entire idea doesn't help always, unless being really useless... isn't? =x

Fr, 12/28/2012 - 23:17

#12

Hexzyle

You're trying to add more

You're trying to add more tacky "classes" and gameplay to the core mechanics, when the core mechanics is perfectly fine itself. It's like suggesting a third damage type to Pokemon when Phsyical and Special cover everything just fine.

New weapons? Yeah, I guess.
New core mechanics? No. What's wrong with the current ones?

Sa, 12/29/2012 - 06:52

#13

Zeyez

hmm...

maybe I see that these are pretty modest for me:
only 2 moves for each weapon

i'm not talking about 'throwing' your sword or make 'kamikaze' move using the bomb
but... for a guy who still use only two weapons, I find myself really limited
"buy weapon slot", probaly everyone will say... i'm still making my third weapon =/

Sa, 12/29/2012 - 17:50

#14

Hexzyle

@Zeyez

When you mix and match weapons and attack styles, you'll realize that there is a lot more versatility than just "2 moves for each weapon".

Sa, 12/29/2012 - 23:18

#15

Zeyez

i see the point, but...

at first for this glove-boots, i think than this weapon can't be only weapon, unless the knight just use the glove on one arm, because you can't wielding 2 gloves to strike and the shield making weight in one of the arms
and that way, using only one glove and one shield, looks a lot like one class in another MMO (I will not mention the name because it may be prohibited)
"Asalraalaikum" (tip)

this idea can be changed to become only as weapon, keeping the descriptions of the variants which have already quoted and losing the 'global bonuses', but, what i already said, will looks weird, even can be classified as 'sword' (ex.: rocket hammer) because this weapon have label "close range weapon"

at least, the charged attacks can be unique, if looks the another ones

Suche

Suggestion for new weapon/shield for the SK: Gauntlets and Boots