You people constantly prove that your desire for this "perfect" game overrides any sense of decency or common sense.

Ironically, I actually agree with your last statement. You do deserve it. When you act in this fashion, why on earth should OOO change anything on your behalf? Have you ever considered they might act better if persuaded, rather than browbeaten?

No, I don't think you have.

CAn we please stop yelling at each other whenever someone brings this up. Here are the facts:

-OOO is being unresponsive about certain recent issues.
-many other companies talk to their communities when major problems arise.
-OOO hasn't said anything about said issues, not even "well, there was a reason but it would ruin the surprise."

*pure facts end here*

@Amaki: We're not asking for perfection. We're asking for an explanation of some kind. Is that too much to ask for? If you have no idea what the developers want for the game... Why are you still here?

1) Real unresolved issues.
2) Users acting poorly, turning on each other and it's being permitted to occur for the most part.
3) The attitude being expressed that the long term users can kiss off for noob's more likely to spend real $.
4) The forgotten fact of word of mouth as in all those pissed off users who left going to Steam, WOW, TF2, Rotmg and so on...
How's are all of these new people going to be coming here from there if everyone here is going there bad mouthing this place?

This war in between obnoxiously rude users and the ignore it/screw it/we'll do what's best for us OOO is going to ruin a game I USED to love.
Check the name. I know many of you know the story behind it. I've been through this before. History is repeating itself. If the rude obnoxious users don't see the error in their ways (even though what they are saying is right for the most part) and clean up their grassroots movement and do it properly and if OOO doesn't care and do anything about it, it will blow. And I'll be hating on all of you for doing that to my game.

Ya, I know. I'll have another warning in the morning. Don't even bother sending it. I already know. And I'm already packing my bags anyway.

Edit to add: Even if this game does become a console game and the users really don't matter, you have other games. You should be concerned about the OOO/Sega reputation for the future of your other projects. If you'll screw your users here, you'll screw them anywhere.

@lamnoone
/hovers hand over the big, red, self destruct button :P

@all
Not quite sure what to say :P

I find - and this is from experience as a player - that transparency on the Dev's part makes things easier for everyone. Three Ring's obtuse silence has nothing to gain, except the hatred of the player base, and that in turn will kill the game. It's a shame; even a simple post explaining X and Y from time to time could avoid all this.

EDIT: uh, I meant "opaque", but after Googling what "obtuse" meant, I think it's a bit more accurate.

OOO tried to talk with the community a while before, where only Helios and Hyperion replied. But, we must know the reason why OOO isn't communicative like in the past? I mean just go check the 2010/2011 threads, most of them had 1 GM at least replying on it. The GMs used to reply because the game was new, and people were just exploring and didn't reach endgame yet. Until the late 2011/2012 they started their calm, silent spree. I refer this to the lack of new things that they have to discuss with players. Yes, there was new updates and stuff, but the game is still the same, nothing new to discuss about the game itself.

Still, I'd like to see OOO, and especially the developers talk more with the forumers. You know, when parents don't listen to their kids' needs and problems, there is a very large possibility that the kids turn into something bad or have some psychological disorders. It might be a bad example, but I think it's very similar to what's happening here. OOO is remaining silent on the horrible UI, the bugged RSS, the redo of Proto Sets for older players, the Chaos Buff, LD bugs, Balance issues. Amazingly, they chose PETS among of all of these issues and suggestions.

Horrible, isn't?

Unlike others that quit the game and stay in the forums. I quit the forums and stay in the game.
Too much negativity here. People do not understand, even if they get all they want, they will still find something to complain about and blame someone else for it.

@Dragneel

I think he means like... when they change the shard bombs/UI. If they cause the forums to get upset and start our usual round of accusations, complaints and arguments for everyone, then it would be nice if they could step in and say something that isn't incredibly dodgey, or that actually makes sense.

Nick doesn't have to and probably shouldn't just spend all day on the forums talking to us about stuff... but if he releases a new UI and the forums/playerbase are upset by it, he should face the controversy that people feel over it, and say something about it, maybe even make changes or something... like-

"We acknowledge that the new UI doesn't exactly fit the game as many people have said, and have made the following simple changes:
-Players can now toggle the appearance of vials back to the way they were
-Players can now choose between a handful of colour schemes, one of which is a goldish theme resembling the old UI.
-Shrunk the enormous picture of your knight in the corner
-Readded the gear on the mini-map to reflect the old theme.

All other changes are here to stay, I know some of you don't like the changes, but we can't have an option to switch back entirely etc. etc. etc."

Little things like that.

Listen up.
What Zed was doing here was demonstrating the value of player-developer communication, not comparing games or the quality of customer service.

The players populating the forums may not constitute a large part of the overall playerbase, but then if I ask you what the forums are for, can you just answer me that it only functions as an announcement board for the game patches and such?
How often do you see a developer or GM in-game? Where are you supposed to go if you want to communicate with the ones running the game? Is communication necessary for a developer and their audience?
Disgruntled players are no doubt a symptom of a serious problem, even if they are a 'minority'. One of the 'minority', if I might add, who is capable of communicating with the developers. Silence means you are being ignored or that there is nothing good to say to you. No one likes being ignored, and SK is a good enough game for me to say that it will never run out of good things to discuss. Have you ever considered we (the players) might act better if our ideas were responded to, instead of being ignored?

Bad PR? Where is the good PR at this point? They're doing a great job at announcements, even if it's mostly one-sided. That would be me commenting on this topic without reading anything the others have written. Which I just did. And not caring what happens after I post this. Which I will certainly do.

I see new mechanics, new mobs, more elite monsters...but no expansion or continuation on main missions? No core sneak previews? No love for endgame players?

Warframe is a great game. Played since closed Beta and loving it more than SK at the moment.

whats up with this threads title? what exactly is the problem?
if u have a question, contact them directly. the threads title makes me think, that everybody considers sk "dev" team to be "secretive and unresponsive". but i, for my part, do not at all. i think they give alot of information in their patch notes, is just my opinion, and im not bothering to check another games staffs messages out in order to change that opinion of mine

INSTEAD..YOU should explain WHY ON EARTH YOU consider sk "dev" team to be "secretive and unresponsive" - not in some random post, but straight into the OP

thers always 2 things in a comparison. but in ur thread - POSTED IN THE ***** SK FORUMS - is not a single bit of info about SK. its all about another games fancy staff...

You're missing the point. He's complaining about the fact that the OP doesn't actually compare anything by itself, the comparison comes later in the thread as a separate post and I agree, that isn't very good. "Reading the whole thread" isn't the point, it's that the 'comparison' that we're trying to create isn't already there in the OP.

We have people that just to know why the UI was changed, and are mad that no one has told them. Can I ask for a moment, why does it matter? It was changed, they felt they needed to. Why did they need to is irrelevant. Not to mention, they might have a reason but not want to share it with us right now. They did kind of share with us why, the shield bash/dash is coming. That may be only 1 of the 10 reasons, but why not let us be surprised?

I for one don't understand the issue with the UI change. I don't understand how a community can be so pissed off about something like that. Then again I am not a Beta player, only been here 2 yrs (give or take). That's neither here nor there, I'll move on.

Why do they have to let us know everything they are planning? If they change their mind, the forums will erupt in hate. Many people will say they shouldn't share things they are working on because this is the result. Yet because they are not sharing, we have everyone saying they should be. Does anyone see the problem here?

Basically in short, SK/OOO will do what they do, and we can't change that. They will make most of us happy, and some of us not. Not everyone will be happy in a situation like this. It's part of life, the government doesn't always make the people happy, however we keep living here. New content will come, new things to explore, OOO isn't going to end game here, but they need time to set up for more things.

Live with what we have, hope new info comes, but remember its a game, not life. Don't sweat the small stuff.

I wonder how often the GM's/Devs (no, not Devilites :P) check the forums...

Now that's how you deal with problems, a little sorry or a decent explanation can make all the difference. :)
After reading that, I think I'm going to finally give in to a friend of mine that always talks about Warframe and try the game, in the very least it looks like they know how to deal with the community and that's something that I greatly appreciate.

Zeddy, I know how good the Warframe developers are but are ye gonna compare them with Three Rings's? >_>

Yeah, sorry, Zed, have to disagree with you on this one. Trying to suggest this is an apples-to-apples comparison is fine as long as one of your apples is a grapefruit.

"Hi, I'm Grittle. And as we all know, the forums are pretty disgruntled with OOO in the past few months. Why? well, because of the RSS nerf, UI overhaul, a few monster nerfs, and.... ummmm uhhhhhh. that's all I can think of. Man, why is there a bunch of people with pitchforks and torches? and why the heck is a Box with Eyebrows doing on my bed? wait, it's moving.... oh god, its Luguiru, OH GOD MOTHER OF--"

Grittle was never seen for the next 5 weeks, he was later found dead. Completely covered in splinters..... and a half eaten BLT sandwich inside his brain.

This isn't a comparison. This is Zeddy saying that Three Rings can answer our questions instead of sitting there like their mouths are zipped up, stitched together and padlocked. He just used the Devs who created Warframe as an example. I could just as easily use Red5 (the creators of Firefall) as an example. The point is when we asked why the UI was changed we got a part of the answer with the dash/shield bash announcement at the end of the month. 27 days with no reason why people had something that was not asked for and was generally vilified - not even a "We needed to add a few things and we couldn't make it fit with the Old UI's style" or something. There may be other times when the playerbase was given no answer that I can't think of: that also falls under the reason why this thread was made. We don't need to know WHAT the Devs are planning, just a simple "why we did this".

'course, I'm not Zeddy. This is just speculation on my part.

You're right, this isn't a comparison, and that's my point: as an example it isn't a fair one, because there really is no comparison between these two. Looking at a company like Digital, which is a.) huge, and b.) beta testing a new title, and saying "the devs posted" doesn't really work. The real test is if Digital is still keeping players in the loop three months from now when the game is firmly in open release.
I think we can all safely agree that as players, we want as much info about what is going on as possible, as soon as possible. OOO has not, in general, been as responsive in that regard as the much larger companies to which people are always comparing them, but again: that is, at least in part, because it is not a fair comparison. And as others have already pointed out, no matter the change there is always at least some portion of the forum-going community yelling about it--and I do mean yelling about it, not just making suggestions as to what they like/dislike and suggesting reasonable changes. If I had two bosses at work with conflicting viewpoints, and every time I updated them on my progress I knew for sure that one of them was going to yell at me, I would update them as little as possible. People can say 'welcome to the interwubz' as much as they want, but if it were you, you would expend the smallest possible amount of energy on answering shouty people too.

EDIT: and btw, now excepting applications for my alt guild, Shouty-People ;)

You forget the part where:

-Game is in state X
-we say "We want Y"
-they give us Y + Z
____________________________
(now some quick conceptual math) :
Y + Z < Y
Y + Z = Q
Q + X < X
(this means that adding Z counteracted Y and made the overall game worse)
________________________________________________________________
-we say "Z is bad, what was wrong with just Y"
-OOO does nothing

And this keeps repeating itself. Updates keep coming out, with the Y's advertised while the Z's slowly make the game worse and worse to play for veterans.
...I hope that math made sense.