Serious power creep issue
Do, 05/09/2013 - 20:46
So after organizing my loadouts I decided to play the Shadow Lairs over the weekend, starting with Snarbolax tonight. It was a joke, a real joke. All the traps you tactfully placed throughout the level? A joke. Blocks preventing me from crossing this area? Just jump over the thorns. I'm practically flipping the bird to the level designer every time I use the dash.
You know that room with the spikes that divide access four ways? Yeah, a joke.
The power creep is in full effect here. I think this must have been an impulsive addition to SK because this doesn't seem very thought out. When Battle Sprites are released, you're going to have to buff enemies to the way they were. Unknown Passage was a joke too. The seed should have made things difficult but being able to dash your way to safety pretty much made everything completely underwhelming.
How are you going to push party roles if teamwork is made irrelevant due to the strength of dash+bash?
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 10:04
#2
Dash should only have 2-3
Dash should only have 2-3 invincibility frames, not the entire length of the dash.
Edit: For the devs: please allow us to use dash to escape tight situations, but not to jump over spikes...thanks bros.
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 17:39
#3
my 2 cents
The invinciframes should happen when you hops but not when you land... as it is now you can land in spikes, move around a lil and you won't get hit, if you would've land and can get hit when you land (with the 1 sec delay) then it should be fine IMO
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 18:27
#4
...
[deleted]
nevermind, not going to feed the troll
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 18:55
#5
You Mad Bro?
Seriously what wrong with jumping over spikes? Are you seriously going to rage about something so trivial? There's nothing game breaking about not having to wait 5 seconds for them to retract, it just makes it faster to progress through the level. The monsters make it pretty hard enough already.
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 19:57
#6
I ran that Shadow Lair with
I ran that Shadow Lair with Neodasus, and after having done so, I concur with everything he has to say here. The dash's invulnerability makes it far too easy to circumvent the challenges that the level's terrain has to offer. When you aren't bound by the threat of floor traps and hazards, many of the most difficult encounters in the game suddenly become far easier, because you can make your own escape routes from enemies when the level would otherwise trap you inbetween certain danger zones.
Removing the dash's invulnerability altogether really doesn't sound like such a horrible idea to me. In my experience, the sudden burst of speed was all I needed - a quick getaway from an attack that would otherwise break through my shield, and something that couldn't be used too often.
And like I said in my other thread, dashing / bashing while stunned ought to be either disabled, or slowed down from normal speed. Otherwise, Stun status will be a complete joke when it's inflicted on knights, since they can retain two very powerful movement abilities when suffering from it.
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 22:26
#7
my 2 cents
There's nothing game breaking about not having to wait 5 seconds for them to retract, it just makes it faster to progress through the level.
No but skipping a puzzle with 2 dash is ground-breaking however... Regardless which puzzle it is... you get a little .5 secs of invinciframe after landing the dash that shouldn't happen, or no invincibility at all like many mentioned...
And like I said in my other thread, dashing / bashing while stunned ought to be either disabled, or slowed down from normal speed. Otherwise, Stun status will be a complete joke when it's inflicted on knights, since they can retain two very powerful movement abilities when suffering from it.
Shield Bash DOES slow down when you are stunned, the animation before you put your shield and your movement are slowed down dramatically... The dash is unaffected though... Stun or no stun (try it with trojans)
Fr, 05/10/2013 - 23:39
#8
People worry too much.
I think dash is fine, just people worry too much that it might get implemented into PvP...
Sa, 05/11/2013 - 04:32
#9
just needs an adjustment
y'know, all they would really have to do is make it so you can't dash through spikes.
Sa, 05/11/2013 - 08:30
#10
@Pyromoon
Actually implementing it in PvP would give players an inherent counter to Polaris. It's a necessary evil to keep the metagame from becoming stagnant.
Sa, 05/11/2013 - 17:15
#11
Ok
I will agree that the invulnerability time you receive after dashing is a bit too long. You should be invulnerable from the time you start the dash to the time you land. Not for a second after you land.
I'd keep the dash's ability to avoid spikes, cause as you notice, its more of a hop than a dash. Ergo jumping over spikes.
The bash ability needs to be able to shield you from damage while you do it, like the dash ability.
So, 05/12/2013 - 18:39
#12
@PvP
Dont forget a counter to strikers in general, and a way to move quickly after your dash has run out, and a way to escape if someone breaks your cloak or your shield.
Mo, 05/13/2013 - 06:06
#13
my 2 cents
So what you do vs a Striker that can strike then dash?
You get obliterated...
That's why it won't be in LD and will take testing...
But then again, knowing OOO they might just implement it anyway and see how it goes on the main server... What test server? it's a preview server, not a test one -_-
/sigh
Mo, 05/13/2013 - 08:30
#14
@Shamanala
Sure the skill ceiling gets higher but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I can see some using it as a means to quickly recover their shield without taking damage--but even that tactic has its downfalls. You should be vulnerable right after landing, which if they do fix this then expect dashing players to be punished for being easily telegraphed to the opponent.
Lockdown is all about understanding frames and timing, if you have even a low level knowledge of these things and how they intermingle with asi then you will outplay anyone 90% of the time.
Mo, 05/13/2013 - 17:46
#16
my 2 cents
@ Klipik I already know that, Pyromoon brought it up...
I think dash is fine, just people worry too much that it might get implemented into PvP...
Why didn't you point it up to him but are pointing it out to me? Because you don't wanna continue a little discussion?
Striker with Dash would rule supreme on LD and Guardian/Recon will be left to death...
We are on the topic of LD with dash so let's continue shall we?
Edit: Lockdown is all about understanding frames and timing, if you have even a low level knowledge of these things and how they intermingle with asi then you will outplay anyone 90% of the time.
well that's reassuring ^ ^
I think, based on people's comments, that taking out the dash invincibility would be a good way to balance it. And remember, they said it's not finished.