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AT and More: Lockdown survey

27 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/23/2014 - 17:30
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight

If you will, please kindly provide your answers to these questions.

1. Does AT improve a player's aim?

2. Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?

3. Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?

4. In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

5. Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
6. What are your relevant biases*? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

*By bias I mean things that someone who disagrees with you can use to invalidate your reasoning.
Saying you are knowledgeable and objective isn't a bias. That statement can be subject to its own bias.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 17:57
#1
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi
If you want to be taken

If you want to be taken seriously, remove the butthurt question.
It shows how you're biased to the case, and invalidates the validity your survey.
It's also a pretty useless question, since we're talking mechanics and not personalities.

I'll take the survey once I've got some time.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:42
#2
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Moved my responses to this post

Does AT improve a player's aim?
Yes.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
No.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
I think most are just frustrated. When pressed, they will find some logical reason, but really the reason is emotional.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
Range, damage, attack speed of certain swords
Shock Pulsars
Bonuses (UVs, trinkets, armor bonuses, etc.)
Bad connection (latency difference between players, unstable ping, packet dropping, etc.)
Team-making algorithm.

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)
Bad connection, because it completely ruins prediction. A skilled player won't be able to react quickly/precisely enough to defeat a less skilled one.
Also, treating the problem requires a lot of real world $$$. There's no other way to fix it.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

I mainly play T2.
I use AT. I've been challenging myself to break away, but turn it on when things get rough.
I have never used a mouse to play SK, so I don't know what aiming with one is like.
I've had nice UVs on an old account, but currently is going UVless on an alt.
Kilowatt Pulsar used to be the only gun I can use effectively.
My ping is 50-100ms, but unstable. I play on Wifi.
I play on a laptop running 2nd Gen i5 processor and intel 3000 graphics.
I was a dusker/skolver clone.
I don't like hammers, but I own one myself to counter them.
My pet peeve is people who say they are something when their actions say otherwise.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 21:52
#3
Retequizzle's picture
Retequizzle

Does AT improve a player's aim?
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that it aids a player in connecting hits more often. No in the sense that it won't do all the work for you.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?

-No.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?

-Hard to say. It's LD, if you're aiming for a competitive environment and you run into people who go against that ideology, it'll probably piss you off.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

-Consistency in matchmaking teams together to be roughly balanced, a more detailed scoring system that puts the objective before the damage, and revision of each class's abilities.

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)

-Consistency and scoring systems are tied for first - having an incredibly stacked team does nothing for either party. If you're on the losing side, the most you can do is hope you're playing well enough that day to keep the opposing team occupied or respawning while the rest of your team does the capturing. To that end, it also leads into the way scoreboards report stats for the match. With damage being one of the few measurable things about how you did as an individual for the match, there's very little reason to rely on scoreboards as they are unless you find a player consistently playing enough of the objective to where their caps or defends (or both) are in the double digits.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

-I was never taught how to use AT in regards to LD. The moment I was interested in playing it for more than recipe tokens, I was told to take it off and learn to play without it, so I did. Took a little over a year to finally get anywhere with it, but learning to play without AT, in my opinion, makes it easier to adapt to new playstyles you're willing to give a try. But on the same token, I'm not going to explicitly hate every single person who does it. Sure, it does get me a little irritated, but it's not gonna make me think less of them at the end of the day.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 06:25
#4
Seiran's picture
Seiran
:;

Making a copy-paste template for questions is like, a must-have in threads like this:
ex:
-----

<strong>Does AT improve a player's aim?</strong>

<strong>Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?</strong>

<strong>Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?</strong>

<strong>In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?</strong>

<strong>Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?</strong>

<em>Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):</em>
<strong>What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?</strong>
-----

Does AT improve a player's aim?
No. If anything, it can improve a player's movement, since it takes the focus off aiming and lets the player focus on moving where they want to.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
No. Inherently, by the removal of handicap/automatic feature, it would become more "pure" and skill-based. Significantly? I don't think so. Movement/timing is so much more important.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
Sure. You don't need legitimate reasons to complain.
My main issue is when people say they want developers to outright remove AT from Lockdown. That's debatable, and IMO based on frustration/idealism that won't be satisfied even if it were removed. I want to be convinced, but that's all I'm getting from it.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
- Lack of LAN multiplayer iuehaiuehahauehAUHeauiehaIuheAUIHEAUIhEuihaiuehaUHEAUIhEhauha
- Too many random elements (random teams, random maps).

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
It's tough, but I think the removal of random elements is the biggest one. Pretty much any competitive game setup removes random elements when possible to make it entertaining (to spectate/play) and "skill-based".
So... player-controlled lobbies? It'd also give players a say in how 'stacked' their teams are, which might give newer players breathing room to have fun and improve.

With the current game objective (capture the point), you can only do so much to say you've made it more "skill-based".

note:
Making a game more "skill-based" doesn't necessarily mean it will mean more players will play the game. Randomness can mean more fun because it can mean the lower-skilled players have a chance at winning (or equal chance of both sides getting screwed over), and that can be enough entertainment to keep them coming back.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
I main T3 Recon, and Guardian on the side. Other people having "good aim" vs me has never been an issue because my classes move slower, I'm inherently easier to hit in the first place, so enemies will hit me if they reach me.

I'm already playing a game where people have "100%" aim when I'm exposed (so AT or not, what does it matter?). For me, the determining factors in whether or not I get hit are prediction, placement, timing, and weapon range. I've been led to use guns as a counter-approach (something that thrives on prediction), or when using swords, trying to get the timing so I hit them before their slash comes out (cutting them off mid-approach).

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 06:10
#5
Tessarekt's picture
Tessarekt
Esseiran strikes again!

Esseiran strikes again!

Geddit? It's essay + seiran...
Cuz you...
Write a lot...
I...
I'll just go...

I'm so sorry ;_;

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 06:23
#6
Seiran's picture
Seiran
:;

It's not that much longer than Rete's (like what, 2 lines?). I just added the copy-paste template for other people's convenience lol.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 06:46
#7
Bleyken's picture
Bleyken

Does AT improve a player's aim?

Yes.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?

Yes.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?

90% of people who complain about AT are frustrated noobies who doesn't even know of what are they talking about, but the other 10% are experienced players who want a better PvP and have legitimate reasons to complain about the features that make the game unfair.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

Conection.
Team-making in RLD.

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)

Conection, but you can't do anything if you live far away from the server so AT is the worst problem that can have a solution.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

Years of experience in LD.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 07:01
#8
Bleyken-Forums's picture
Bleyken-Forums

Does AT improve a player's aim?

- It doesn't improve, it is just that the computer aims for yourself

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?

- Of course

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?

- That depends of the player.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

- Better balance of the team-making

What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

- A lot time playing LD and without AT from the beginning

A question for Auto-Target: Why only the AT users defend the AT?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 07:26
#9
Seiran's picture
Seiran

Why only the AT users defend the AT?
^ sorry Bleyu, but I "defend" AT (I'm anti-ban) and I don't use it.

I actually turned it off from the beginning because I used heavy swords. I forgot it was a setting until Lockdown came around and people started complaining about it.

h8r

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 07:36
#10
Bleyken-Forums's picture
Bleyken-Forums

@Serian The question was for Auto-Target. Didn't you read it?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 16:07
#11
Seiran's picture
Seiran

Well, I'm included in that group, and I'm not letting him answer for me. I answer for myself >:P

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 08:56
#12
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi
Here goes nothing.

Does AT improve a player's aim?

For a select few guns, namely the antigua line, and all swords. I'll have to agree with Bleyu here that I don't consider it improving but removing.
When you're dealing with 180° sword arcs, and a 45° correction to that, there's not a lot of aiming to be done anymore.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?

I've never been an advocate for a ban, there should be the liberty to choose. Lobbies are still the dream.
What I would like to see implemented in a 'forced' way, is the correlation of AT correction to ping.

The catch to this question is the word 'significant'. There are a lot of things wrong with Lockdown, so no one thing will make it all better.
It would make a difference though, and obviously one leading towards a more skill based lockdown.
As Seiran points out, movement and timing are important, but so is aiming.
It's the difference between juggling with 2 or 3 balls, suddenly becomes a lot harder when you have to combine all 3 elements.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?

The two don't have to exclude each other.
You can complain because you know how AT works, what is broken about it, and still be frustrated when somebody abuses it.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

-Weapon balance is an obvious one. It would lead to a more varied meta where not everybody is forced into the same loadout.
Worst offenders: Brandish and Pulsar lines.

-Ranking system and team balance.

-Maps. Due to SK's camera angle, there is a big advantage to coming in from below the opponent.
Some maps offer too many options to do this imo. Also, *%ù` snowballs.

-Some minor balancing between classes.

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?

Ranking system and team balance.
You can try to compensate for all of the other issues, this one is completely on OOO though.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

I have played both with and without AT for a long time. I know what it does, how it works, and how to use it.
Thanks to a lot of people with a more exploring nature than mine, I've come to know a great deal about game mechanics/technicalities/tactics.
I've been playing LD on a high level, with all of the classes, for a long time now.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 09:56
#13
Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion
    Does AT improve a player's aim?
  • It improves the result of anything other than perfect aim while in use. It does not however help a player to learn playing without it.
  • Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?

  • Yes.
  • Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?

  • If the ones being shouted at are using AT, yes.
  • In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

  • Removal of all hp-trinkets. Solves tanky strikers and all ASI problems for players who think ASI UVs are impossible to get.
  • Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?

  • AT, because most players will choose striker no matter what they do to it. A battle with 2x penta strikers only has room for more skill than a battle with AT users only.
  • Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
    What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?

  • I play T3. I never use AT. Played since steam release.
Thu, 04/24/2014 - 10:35
#14
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Does AT improve a player's aim?
No. It does improve one's ability to land a hit, though.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
Somewhat.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
Depends on what kind of complaint it is. Someone saying "lol AT noob" in a RLD game is most likely to be butthurt and does not know what they're talking about. People who make detailed posts on the forums in which they support their arguments with facts are legit, obviously.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?

  1. Trinkets
  2. Team imbalance
  3. Class imbalance
  4. UVs
  5. Auto Target

Side note, I'd say connection somewhere along the lines but it's largely tied to geographical location and complaining about it while not bothering with finding a fix of your own.

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)

Trinkets. Strikers become guardians and guardians just become greater damage sources, or immortal if played well.

What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
I mak science. I play on a competitive level when given the opportunity. I've played for more than 100 days on my main character/roughly 2700 hours on the Steam client in total. I use AT almost only in LD with weapons which get a major gain from it (Brandishes and such). Toggle button is my bud in PvE.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:14
#15
Tessarekt's picture
Tessarekt
I added a tl;dr, rejoice!

I have to disagree with Bleyu,Theirilusion and Krakob.

AT does improve the player's aim. While using AT you get a certain feel for your weapon. You get to experience the feeling on how to approach your enemies. When you decide to switch of AT, your body remembers the movements needed to effectively hit your advisary. Granted AT does make it possible to hit someone from otherwise impossible angles, but at the same time it gradually tweaks your movements so that you know how to strike.

I saw someone commenting some time ago that LD exists solely of movement and aiming. But he forgot timing (and reflexes, which ofcourse fall under' timing' ). By having AT tweak your aiming you can improve you can devote yourself a bit more tothe timing of the shot. Improved timing results in a lot more hits actually landing, which can arguably be seen as "an improve of your aim".

Tl;dr
I think that if you let the computer aim with the help of AT, you have more time improving your timing since you don't have to worry about aiming, thus landing more hits, therefore improving your 'aim'. You can't hit without the proper timing. AT undoubtely helps you getting your timing right, by getting your mind off your aiming itself (for now).

EDIT: since I am taking a crap right now, my mind is having several epiphanies. Think of AT as training wheels, they help you stay up so you can find your own balance between paddeling, steering and staying up. AT are the training wheels that help you find the balance between moving, aiming and timing.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:36
#16
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight

Bleyu: "A question for Auto-Target: Why only the AT users defend the AT?"

^I think the logical answer is because people who don't use AT have little incentive to spend time defending it. It's also why most people who want AT removed happen to not use it.

@All
#3 is not directed at you in particular. It's your evaluation of the community. From your experience, do people more often dislike AT for objective reasons or emotional reasons?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:51
#17
Mushy-Bucket's picture
Mushy-Bucket
---

1. Does AT improve a player's aim?
To a limited extent. AT does not compensate for where the enemy is going to be; it hits where they are right now. In other words, if you are using a really slow sword, it may not work out very well.

2. Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
Absolutely not.

3. Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
It depends. I give credit to the people who can calmly come up with a plethora of really good reasons - problem is, that applies to almost nobody. I think a lot of the people who complain are people who are OmG i Am So PrO tHiS nOoB kIlLeD mE RAAAGE. Plus there are the people who have the best gear and think that makes them entitled.

4. In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
- Player lobbies
- Option to play without UVs
- Non-random team-picker for RLD (Teams are set up based on gear/other parameters, not a RNG system)
- Lame scoreboards

5. Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
A tie between "Option to play without UVs" and the "Lame scoreboards." Before I start, let me state that I use UVs, so I'm not hating on people with UVs. I think UVs should be able to be turned on/off in player lobbies because.... along with connection (can't be fixed), they are the most obvious detraction from "skill-based PvP:" they make my swords faster, make my bombs charge quicker, and make me generally live longer - pretty simple. The scoreboards also don't help, since they only display caps, damage, and defends. I'm not going to get into what new stats should be added, since people have said that a million times already.

6. What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
I've been playing Lockdown for over a year, with AT. I don't use AT in PvE, because it's useless there. Even though I'm apparently a noobhacker for using AT, I have plenty of Striker+Swords+Valiance skills and have a good set of gear with pretty good UVs. For a long time, I've studied the remarks people make about AT and what kind of player they are.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:17
#18
Retequizzle's picture
Retequizzle

AT does improve the player's aim. While using AT you get a certain feel for your weapon. You get to experience the feeling on how to approach your enemies. When you decide to switch of AT, your body remembers the movements needed to effectively hit your advisary. Granted AT does make it possible to hit someone from otherwise impossible angles, but at the same time it gradually tweaks your movements so that you know how to strike.

I would have to disagree with this notion, just because of the fact that explaining the concept in this manner insinuates that aiming and timing are two entirely different things that aren't correlational at all, when it's quite the opposite. It is especially the case with guns, since most gunners not only have to lead their shot based off of where their opponent is moving, but they also have to compensate for their own movement as well while in the process of aiming. Add the fact that some guns will essentially invinciframe the target on their own (AP, Sentenza, and a fast enough Valiance are the main culprits of this), and the argument goes out the window. Timing and aiming are inherently reliant on each other, because without timing, even if your aim is perfect, you still risk not making the desired hit connect. Conversely, without aiming, even if your timing is correct, a miss is a miss, and will still result in something different than the desired outcome.

The same carries for swords as well - swinging your sword at the appropriate time to meet an oncoming target before they can react to the swing is vital to being an effective player in LD, regardless of which class you choose to use. Even if you swing in their general direction, if the timing is imperfect enough, you will miss and leave yourself open. If your timing is perfect but aiming is inaccurate enough to where your knight swings in a direction you're expecting them to come from, you're still just as open. AT compensates enough for the latter option to where it happens less often, but what I think people fail to realize is that it is possible to mislead the AT correction to the point that they will miss regardless. But to expect that from everyone is nigh unreasonable because of latency and ping being a constant issue. I will admit I'm one of the more fortunate players to have a solid enough internet to where playing without latency is a common thing for me. But to insinuate that you can learn the timing of a weapon well enough to where you'll know how to use it without any aim assistance is unrealistic at best, and highly improbable in this case.

tl;dr - footwork might be integral, but disassociating AT with the ability to land hits in the manner you're describing doesn't follow logically.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:06
#19
Sho-Marufuji's picture
Sho-Marufuji
/e casually whistles.

These are some big posts. :U

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:26
#20
Sipsy's picture
Sipsy
Short answers at bottum

1. Does AT improve a player's aim?
☻No, I can't hit anything with my latency even with it on.

2. Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
☻Of course not.

3. Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
☻They'll complain about anything that kills them.

4. In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
☻Removing my--- a lot of people's 300ms ping.
☻Also, adding an option to disable chat in lockdown, all I see is "Van-Winkle: That 7 square range." or "Random-Tryhard: AT, Polaris, Noob, LeAAve!"
- But keeping team chat, and PM's on.

5. Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)
☻The lag. I live like halfway between the Eu and US servers, so they don't make a difference no matter which one I join. I can't even hit the walls.

☻AT Bombing. <- Because it was a joke.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
6. What are your relevant biases*? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
☻I'm a gunner so the latency screws my aiming over incrediblech. Leadshooting 7 squares away from where I see the player helps, though. But then again, I get hit from 7 squares away.
☻When I see words, I just read them automatically even when I try not to, it's extremely difficult to ignore. And not to brag (but I'll do it anyway) I can tell if the word's going to be N00B, just from the shape of it on the chat.
----------------------------------------------
Short answers
1. Does AT improve a player's aim?
No

2. Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
No

3. Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
Frustrated

4. In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
Lag/Latency

5. Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)
Lag/Latency Sword Range = Gun range

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
6. What are your relevant biases*? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
-----

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:40
#21
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi

I can't even tell if you're serious or not. ^

No one can do anything about your lag and latency except you.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:50
#22
Tessarekt's picture
Tessarekt
Apparently I didn't elaborate

Apparently I didn't elaborate enough on my part. I didn't mean to insinuate that timing and aim are two completely different things. I was trying to point out that AT gives you the oppurtunity to focus more on practicing the timing of your swings, since AT aims for you so you don't have to worry about aiming. That way you can kick back and perfect your timing then move on to practicing aiming. While getting the right timing is not directly linked to a better aim, one can say that it indirectly does affect ones ability to hit.

If a player is able to land more hits than before, I think you can say that his aiming has improved. While that doesn't even have to be the case. Let's say that in situation (1) he was using AT but his timing was off and in situation (2) he had to oppurtunity to improve his timing by letting the computer aim for him. In (1) he didn't land much hits, you could say his aim was bad, but that would be a misconception. In (2) he lands a lot more hits because he knows when to strike. So while his aiming didn't improve directly, his ability to land hits did. In 20-20 hindsight AT doesn't improve aiming directly, but I still believe a player can improve by using AT to practice.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:50
#23
Tessarekt's picture
Tessarekt
Apparently I didn't elaborate

Apparently I didn't elaborate enough on my part. I didn't mean to insinuate that timing and aim are two completely different things. I was trying to point out that AT gives you the oppurtunity to focus more on practicing the timing of your swings, since AT aims for you so you don't have to worry about aiming. That way you can kick back and perfect your timing then move on to practicing aiming. While getting the right timing is not directly linked to a better aim, one can say that it indirectly does affect ones ability to hit.

If a player is able to land more hits than before, I think you can say that his aiming has improved. While that doesn't even have to be the case. Let's say that in situation (1) he was using AT but his timing was off and in situation (2) he had to oppurtunity to improve his timing by letting the computer aim for him. In (1) he didn't land much hits, you could say his aim was bad, but that would be a misconception. In (2) he lands a lot more hits because he knows when to strike. So while his aiming didn't improve directly, his ability to land hits did. In 20-20 hindsight AT doesn't improve aiming directly, but I still believe a player can improve by using AT to practice.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 16:02
#24
Nottheanswer's picture
Nottheanswer
~
  1. Does AT improve a player's aim?
    With specific weapons, against a single target. It definitely improves specific playstyles, but not every playstyle. So situationally yes.
  2. Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
    I guess so? See the glob of text below.
  3. Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
    If they are unable to use it, or using it somehow disadvantages them while giving opponents advantages, then they have legitimate reason to complain. Loaded question, "legitimate reasons" and "frustration" aren't mutually exclusive.
  4. In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
    Custom lobbies would be great. Class balance and end-of-game reporting; Recon and Guard can make game-winning plays, but they often don't show up under damage/defends/caps. See below I guess?
  5. Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
    Depends on the definition of "skill". Really, any change to LD would be great, if only for the sake of showing that OOO recognizes that there are things that could be positively changed, and that it has a devoted playerbase.
  6. What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
    I've toggled AT since I started playing SK. Hard-mained Recon for months cause I was too slow for Striker. Played on an alt without a toggle, and didn't feel a huge difference; my highest damage (which admittedly isn't very high) has been on this alt. I only really play T2, where using AT is pretty much a given (inb4 Rebel). Constant 4bar connection, solid computer.

On skill: I'd argue that game-winning decisions are skill. The game is won by having more points at the end, or reaching the point threshold first. As things are, the community seems to want some sort of timed deathmatch with classes, and LD has turned into that to some extent. To that end, I think the biggest issues are a mismatch between the game's intentions and the community's expectations, for which there's no easy fix; a "fix" might not be helpful.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 02:42
#25
Oroseira's picture
Oroseira
:x

Does AT improve a player's aim?
Yes.

Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
Hmm. Let's see.

Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
All of them are butthurt. All of them.

In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
Pulsars.
Latency.
Butthurt nubs.
The fact that Lockdown is partially luck-based (yes, seriously, mainly with team balancing)

Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
Butthurt nubs, because it ruins a good match and makes me not want to play anymore. I still need that Electron Vortex recipe, so my only chance might be to switch from US to EU, while losing 1 bar in the process.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
What are your relevant biases? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
My "months" of experience with Lockdown.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 18:09
#26
Sho-Marufuji's picture
Sho-Marufuji
I was never one for lengthy explanations...

It's called Auto Target for a reason, no, frustration, Acherons/Pulsars/SS Line/jerks, jerks; their complaining is quite annoying, this section of he forums.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 07:38
#27
Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
1. Does AT improve a player's

1. Does AT improve a player's aim?
obviously

2. Would banning AT (everything else untouched) make Lockdown significantly more skill-based than it is now?
considering that pro players do very brisk fights in which every frame is important and that it is hard to aim perfectly the adversaring that are always moving, Yes absolutely.
3. Do you think most people who complain about AT have legitimate reasons or are they just frustrated?
yeah, legitimate reasons.

4. In your opinion, what other problems must be corrected, along with AT, that will lead to a significantly more skill-based Lockdown?
Lag of course, and perhaps over powered asis ( vh and h )
5. Out of that list, which one is the worst problem? Why?
(you can also choose AT to be the worst, just explain why)
Lag , AT comes at the second place.

Optional question (although omitting would look suspicious):
6. What are your relevant biases*? What may have influenced your responses to the questions?
... I m pretty sure this is my lockdown playing.

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