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Lore question about the Gremlin King [spoiler alert maybe?]

14 replies [Last post]
Fri, 04/25/2014 - 08:17
Crimson-Xe's picture
Crimson-Xe

I didn't see any lore forums so I'm posting this here, sorry if it's the wrong place

So in the wiki, on King Tinkinzar's page, it claims that "he is also known as the Architect, and the artifact retrieved from the Shadow Lair: Ironclaw Munitions Factory implies that he may have had something to do with the creation of The Swarm." However I have looked into the shadow lair artifact mentioned and it only says this:

"This world was created to protect me.
Vulnerable in slumber, worlds were drawn to shield me from the darkness.
This world has become my prison.
In his madness, the architect betrayed the pact. Twisting his creation into a game of death, it now devours all who enter its iron embrace."

On this wiki page, the words 'the architect' link to King Tinkinzar's page without any evidence that it is actually them they are talking about. I've not bought the Crimson Hammer DLC, nor have I done this particular shadow lair, so I don't know if I missed any information from random NPCs talking, but I don't think that the architect is actually the same thing as the gremlin king. So what do you think? Is there some evidence that it's the same guy? I looked all over to try and find the connection but I didn't find anything.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 08:24
#1
Pandafishie's picture
Pandafishie

This has been discussed before.
/yawn

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 08:32
#2
Crimson-Xe's picture
Crimson-Xe
how does that help me if you

how does that help me if you don't link to it or something?

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:07
#3
Crimson-Xe's picture
Crimson-Xe
I went through a bunch of old

I went through a bunch of old posts mentioning Tinkinzar, and most of them just refer to him as the architect without an explanation of why he is the architect. Just because something is repeated enough to be 'common knowledge' doesn't mean that it is fact. If there's no canon proof that they are the same person, then I would have to say it's unreasonable to assume they are.

There's a knight that says he doesn't believe that Gremlins were capable of building Cradle by themselves, so why would Tinkinzar, assumed gremlin, be able to build it?

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:29
#4
Avenger-Of-Troy's picture
Avenger-Of-Troy
Crimson,

That "He"knight is a
"She"knight>;
And its lieutenant Vaelyn.

And yes, the architect is Tinky...
I just forgot where from.
Pretty sure its och or something

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:34
#5
Crimson-Xe's picture
Crimson-Xe
I'm looking for a bit more

I'm looking for a bit more evidence than just remembering vaguely that it's from somewhere

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:35
#6
Pandafishie's picture
Pandafishie

I'm not on a computer so finding links is rather difficult.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:35
#7
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

we know that Thinkinzar is referred as "the architect" in the gremlin society (it's explained somewhere in missions).
I don't believe this is relevant as razwog is a schemer which, according to Nick, is the equivalent of engineer, so architect might be the equivalent of king.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:39
#8
Crimson-Xe's picture
Crimson-Xe
I'm not saying you're wrong

I'm not saying you're wrong but I still can't accept just 'somewhere in the missions' as evidence. It could be that they are referring to Tinkinzar as an actual architect and not /the/ Architect from the shadow lair stone.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:51
#9
Avenger-Of-Troy's picture
Avenger-Of-Troy
Accept the fan lore.

Don't question it.
Just accept it.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 09:59
#10
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

Who sent you to ask these questions. Was it Herex?

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 10:09
#11
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Look a bit into the gremlins

The gremlins act as a sort of maintenance crew for the clockworks. They are considered to be "mechanical geniuses", and Tinkinzar is their king.
Whether or not Tinkinzar is the Architect is another story, but the Spiral Knights believe that he may be the one who envisioned the clockworks.

In the lore, we do not know if Tinkinzar created the clockworks - however us players and most of the knights that we interact with in the game believe the gremlins do indeed have something to do with the clockworks and why it is here. We can only assume Tinkinzar is the mechanical genius who designed the clockworks, but perhaps didn't have the power to make it operate. The core contains an entity which emits great power, so it could very well be an alliance between the core and Tinkinzar that was destroyed at some point.

Honestly, I don't even think it's clear that Tinkinzar is involved with the swarm... The "pact" could have been protection from the entity, and once seeing how powerful that entity was Tinkinzar nope'd out of the contract, leaving the core to have to fight off the swarm on its own. The fact that the clockworks does act as a sort of deathtrap in-of itself is the iron embrace that devours all.

Hopefully we'll get some more sound concrete lore when we get the new Tier 3 boss.

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 17:47
#12
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Crimson-Xe

so why would Tinkinzar, assumed gremlin, be able to build it?

Nowhere ever is it stated that Tinkinzar is a Gremlin, nor is it even hinted at (He's not a Gremlin King, he's King of the Gremlins, there's a big difference)

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 21:28
#13
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
Obligatory lore

At the beginning, there was a sphere of blue energy, pure and prestine, with dark empty void surrounded its beautiful presence, for reason of perhaps love, or hate. Then the sphere gains a consciousness, the desire to be spread across the universe was its will, it materialized the energy into solid body parts, he called himself, Inceptron. And with his will and the power, he created Cradle.

His plan to spread his influence across the universe is simple, since he cannot move freely, he created creatures smart enough to voyage across the universe. Spreading bits and pieces of himself to other worlds. At first, He created the Almirians, and he designated one of their greatest leader, Lord vanaduke, to be his first 'Architect', the role of an architect is to oversee the construction of cradle, in the time of the Alimirian civilization, Vanaduke oversaw the contruction of five layers of the cradle, but then they stopped. Inceptron, who is dissastified with the progress, decided to drive Vanaduke into insanity and turns him into a monster. With his firey wrath, he destroyed the civilization he once helped to build. Vanaduke is now trapped inside FSC, his prison of eternal sorrow... and rage.

Inceptron took his time, this time started off with the single celled jellies, multicellular wolvers and then the wolvers evolved to walk up right and became what we now know as, the Gremlins. Inceptron appointed Tinkinzar, a distinguished lord to become the next Architect. He is much more successful than Vanaduke, created another 25 layers of new clockwork. But Tinkinzar knew that one day, Inceptron will destroy him once he is no longer useful. So instead of waiting for his inevitable fate, Tinkinzar created the swarm and used it to trap Inceptron inside the the planet's core. Now turning from salve to master Tinkinzar took over control of cradle while ensuring that core is not to be breached.

Trapped inside his prison, Inceptron saw a vision, a vessel out side cradle, he knows that this is his chance to escape. Channeling a powerful beam of energy, he manages to bring the vessel down to the planet side. Now, all he has to do, is to wait for his rescue...

The echo stones are a lie, the spirits are toying with you, Inceptron is coming, and he will destroy all.

Sat, 04/26/2014 - 00:05
#14
Ill-Fate-Ill's picture
Ill-Fate-Ill
....

Noticed this for a while, but I think "The Architect" is a reference to the Matrix. Read on, and you'll see that he was the one that created the Matrix, much like whatever the hell happened that resulted in the creation of a clockwork planet.

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