For anyone reading this, that is able to give feedback in the test server sub forum..
Tell them they let us down again.
Pulsar line's spammy nature should have been nerfed, not enhanced. Ask for a 2 shot weapon. Please.
Gunner update and Lockdown.
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 03:51
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 04:26
#2
The damage was nerfed and the speed of the bullets was increased, leading to them being in the air for less time. How's it a bad thing?
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 04:33
#3
@Krakob
Well, Picture this...
-A player is capping a point in LD and spamming Pulsar lines at the same time....If another team player trying to get in...
-A noob spamming Pulsar lines with a full party...
-A guy with weak computer spec is in a same party with a pulsar line spammer...
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 04:50
#4
They did a wonderful thing to
They did a wonderful thing to the lovely bio/neutralizer lines.
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 05:36
#5
....
Now, it is -Shoot biohazard everywhere-->Close in and toothpick-->Bewm.
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 07:11
#6
@Krakob
Faster bullets means it's harder to dodge, and easier to create a 'wall'.
Pulsars were never about damage, they were about status infliction and denial of area.
They just made that easier to do.
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 07:50
#7
Indeed they weren't about damage but a nerf's still a nerf and they needed one.
Since the bullets travel faster, they'll also disappear faster. That's great for the opponent of the Pulsar user because it means there'll be less bullets out on the field and thus less area denial. With less area denial, the Pulsar user will be left more vulnerable and easier to engage in close combat, which encourages the Pulsar user to grab a sword and defend themselves with.
The speed is of course a good thing but it's also bad and which one it is the most will depend on the situation. A lone spammer will probably not benefit from this while the Pulsars will be even better for crowd combat now, I'd say.
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 08:41
#8
the bad part has just begun!
no matter slow or fast... grenade launcher (pulsar line) can handle both in most situations~
slow bullet can make people confused when you shot it randomly and fast bullet can make people confused too but more effective to scare people and make shock wall.
calm down for now... and prepare yourself when another threat come~
wut threat? drill launcher and mad firefly (don't ask me what this gun)
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 08:46
#9
Oops forgot @Nocturne Grande
Invinciframes turn that into a big NOPE. Seiran also listed a number of reasons it doesn't work and is bugged but I don't fancy digging it up.
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 22:18
#10
@Krakob
Wasn't it something about self detonation?
Sun, 04/27/2014 - 23:41
#11
:;
@Nocturne/Catalyzers
Self-detonation was trivial (I mean really, how often do both you AND your target even have a catalyzer in the first place?) - though maybe not so much when the gun mechanics actually come out since test-server posts say that pretty much any bullet (or is it any attack? melee included?) can detonate catalyzer charges.
The bigger issue is that catalyzer tagged shots don't actually do damage at all in Lockdown, and it's not even because of invincibility frames (I tested in a way that disabled invinciframes).
Hopefully they've actually looked into the mechanics behind catalyzer instead of just saying "let's swap the charge and normal attacks and modify damage- LOL FIXED!" because I'm willing to bet it's an inherent issue with the actual charge-tag mechanic. I don't make much noise about it because so few people even use catalyzers in the first place. But if they don't fix it, the spike of catalyzers post-update will spread visibility on the issue. And hey, they might actually fix it afterwards because it's "related" to the recent patch (they're more likely to hotfix related things after a patch than to fix an old bug).
@Feyi:
...faster bullet speed?
I was kind of enjoying the whole uncloaked-recon-being-able-to-run-away-from-pulsar thing. :\ Oh well.
Did anyone look into the new magnus charge ranges? Aside from the character knockback animation, the current magnus charge DID actually outrange polaris shots, so winter grave/slug/callahan might become a viable counter (at least from below).
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 03:29
#12
Charge is comparable to a Valiance charge, so it outranges Polaris.
I do believe we'll see a whole lot more of Winter Grave and Iron Slug in Lockdown.
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 06:08
#13
True to my name I am but a dream....
I love how no one has compared Polaris users to TF2 Pyro players
(both get a bad rap for being "noob friendly")
Polaris might not be so bad if strikers actually hung around the team's guardian (but that is never going to happen)
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 07:31
#14
....
Switch shoot Pulsaaa~~
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 09:32
#15
I mean, if it means anything, (well, other than me not knowing how to use polaris), I can double-switch a kilowatt pulsar at full speed (example with biohazard) and I've had strikers break through it.
There's probably other aspects to walling with it, but idk. Streaming it doesn't seem to be all the terror that people make it sound to be :\
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 09:55
#16
really the best way to fix the polaris lines in general is to increase the distance before the bullet expands by a tile and to remove status infliction on non-expanded bullets - at that point it becomes the area denial weapon that everyone touts it to be, with more emphasis on denying entrance points and less emphasis on being a panic button to use when you get pressured. most of all, it will actually get people to look at other guns for area denial if they want a consistent bullet at all ranges, and with the gunner update in general i think that should be the overall goal for the developers to really consider.
at the end of the day though, if you're going to alter damage ratios for the pulsar lines, then it should be to reflect the supernova being the actual damage dealer of the pulsar family, and at that point i don't particularly care if they increase supernova potency or lower the other lines' output.
and as seiran said, the pulsars are mechanically broken in terms of status infliction but not functionally usable in such a way to the point of being able to one-man an entire team the way that most strikers dream of. it's incredibly spammy by nature, and i get that more than you probably think, but making it two shots instead of three would solve nothing, and would just encourage LD players who mainline the pulsar family to paint with all the colors of the wind (yeah i went there) and have no regard for where they put shot placement anyway. in short it'd be touted as something to fix an issue that would do nothing to fix said issue.
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 13:33
#17
slight/fair chance of minor status.
it is somewhat annoying when the polaris spam strategy is to "wait for enemies to make a mistake, get hit by polaris, get shocked, and then rush to kill." nerfing the chance of status plus the strength of status would be super helpful (and more or less make it an elemental-supernova)
it's really the strength of the status on top of its giant throbbing area denial that's annoying. accidentally running into them/getting hit by them occasionally isn't so bad, it's just the severe punishment of getting shocked by them (long interruptions of being unable to do anything plus removal of invincibility frames) that makes it so difficult to deal with.
Mon, 04/28/2014 - 18:34
#18
I am the King of the Hipsters [citation needed]
Lockdown is flat-out done for.
Period.
Unless OOO buffs Swordsmen to be the next Meta Knight, everyone might as well start spamming haze bombs in LD.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 00:06
#19
That's not even severe enough a nerf in my opinion Ret.
Area denial should be a thing for bombs. Any gun that doesn't need to be aimed shouldn't be a gun. I'm looking at Catalyzer as well.
Making Polaris a 2 shot weapon means you can't create the fabled 'Blue Wall'. (Contri®)
What I've noted down in my feedback on the gunner is making it a slight chance to inflict minor status,
as Flamberge and Rigadoon do, and change it to be a 2 clip weapon.
This way you can deny area, but you won't be able to do it continually.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 04:00
#20
@feyi
"change it to be a 2
@feyi
"change it to be a 2 clip weapon."
"This way you can deny area, but you won't be able to do it continually."
Or you know, people could learn how to single switch and keep doing the denial of area techniques they've been doing already.. This just makes it a lot easier for less skilled players to spam the weapon.
@everyone
Kind of agree that polaris bullet speed buff is complete bogus, polaris bullets really shouldn't be any faster.. They are already hard to avoid when you got like 3 guys spamming that thing. However, gunner update has it's bonuses too which as a part-time gunner in pvp and full time in pve I can of love them
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 06:12
#21
Yo how do yo think the
Yo how do yo think the biohazard and neutralizer will work for recons now? You have to be insanely lucky to tag a cloaked recon with a charge at the moment. But cloaked gremlins get their positiin given away by the tag.
Obviously tagging will be easier after the biobuff, so will the tag also go invisible when the recon does? Or will the cloak obselete? Also are guardians screwed since you can pretty much tag them with 20 balls, molest their shield then do it again to destroy their hp since their not fast enough to dodge everything?
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 06:39
#22
@Surge-ribbon:
"double-switch": because you switch TWICE to use the same weapon.
"single-switch": you switch ONCE to alternate weapons (for losers who want to carry two of the same weapon type)
I mentioned earlier that double-switching polaris isn't the invincible wall people make it out to be.
@Tessarekt:
- Vs Guardian: You can only tag guardians when their shield is down. Also, damage vs guardian depends on whether or not they fix the current issues with charge damage AND also assumes that when that's fixed, all the damage happens simultaneously (so invinciframes don't nullify the rest of the tagged shots).
- Vs Recon: Currently, tagged shots are visible regardless of the target's visibility (so you'll see a rotating ball in midair). Unless the recon is absolutely terrible at moving and gets tagged by 2+ shots, a single charge doesn't completely give away where it is, unless it's moving in a straight line. A tagged shot rotates, and a recon can move to mislead by at least a tile or two. Also, it just gives more argument for recons to use guns, the way IMO they were meant to be. Keep in mind that Catalyzer bullets are slow. If I can dodge polaris shots (with current bullet speed) as a recon, I'm sure people can dodge catalyzers.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 06:44
#23
You can only tag 5 of the
You can only tag 5 of the catalyze shots ^
@Surge:
Of course, the gunner update is great, I was only talking about polaris.
I'd rather have people having to learn single switch than have it so every noob can do it.
Nowadays Polaris is a sidearm for every swordsmen with a 3d slot, and most of them can't single switch.
This along with a slight chance of minor status would make it less OP. There's no sense in making it bad.
@Seiran: Catalyzer shots were made to be faster as well.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 06:47
#24
meh..
change pulsar clip to 2?
wow guys that not easy~ there's lot of thing to considered such as people who already made it because of current gun mechanic.
this is not like mad bomber clone case (chaos set) because pulsar line is the most gun used by people, and someone already have asi vh on their gun because of 3 shot bullet. do you know what going happen to that guy? --a
and ooo not going to sacrifice pulsar user just for some mad lockdown player...
almost all my friend and people i meet have this gun in both pve and pvp.
most of them use it to daze gun puppy and to fight bunch of fiend, some use it as a main weapon.
i have to disagree for 2 shot pulsar but i will agree to reduce status effect and minimize expanded bullet hitbox.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 06:53
#25
@Feyi:
Catalyzer shots were made to be faster as well.
:0
Well, it's still slower than alchemer bullets, I hope?
@Floerail:
Well, for comparison's sake, look how much damage Iron Slug/Callahan do on normal shots. It has two bullets. If polaris does damage similar to Slug/Callahan, it should probably have two bullets as well.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 07:21
#26
@Seiran
no one going to use magnus line even with 3 shot because of stand shot. but the current magnus still good in lockdown, active AT and use striker > bang bang headshot! AT work effectively on this gun because stand shot.
i find out more easy to use this gun to stun people to death and make me more concentrate rather than spam randomly~
but you going to see more magnus user later and rage thread about magnus if new magnus going to be like what i fear...
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:02
#27
XD hey now, I brought up magnus to use it as a comparison for Polaris balance. There are those reasons that I don't recommend Magnus for Lockdown. But if Magnus has two bullets + stand-still to balance its "power", then shouldn't the Pulsar line get some rebalance to its power/mobility/speed?
There's also a chance that the Magnus changes add more power to balance its mobility/speed instead so~
idk, you'll all see how it turns out in time lol ;>
Magnus charge outranges Polaris, so it could become a counter.
It's hard to tell because there wasn't PVP in the test server this past weekend, so you can't really test how it works in the dynamic of movement and other weapons :x
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 08:30
#28
I feel like people fail to tell the difference between firing speed and bullet speed. Then again, it's not carved in stone yet, nor is it official. Afaik, we're discussing spoilers here but what do I know. GMs haven't shut us down yet so I'm gonna guess it's okay.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:18
#29
That's not even severe enough a nerf in my opinion Ret.
Area denial should be a thing for bombs. Any gun that doesn't need to be aimed shouldn't be a gun. I'm looking at Catalyzer as well.
Making Polaris a 2 shot weapon means you can't create the fabled 'Blue Wall'. (Contri®)
by that notion any gun that is currently used in LD isn't a gun then, including valiance shots that are fired aimlessly at an entrance hoping someone walks into it; including alchemers that are fired against walls so the ricochets randomly hit someone based on the RNG deciding if it's going to go one way or another based on the angle it hits the wall at; including antigua line shots that are fired blindly to ping a recon that most people are not able to track otherwise - need i go on?
your definition's biased and we both know it. functionally, the pulsar and catalyzer lines are designed to essentially be fire-and-forget weapons in some capacity, and to that end they do their job. what i'm suggesting is a nerf to their effectiveness of that role to bring the pulsar lines back into the realms of acceptability for both pvp and pve. what you're suggesting is purely-LD based and is clearly aimed at punishing players who use it at all, period.
what you're also failing to realize is that with two other pulsar-style guns about to be introduced, this nerf will mean next to nothing regardless of which one is taken into consideration, if at all.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:28
#30
Those are assumptions made by you. Yes I do hate polaris abusers with a passion when it comes Lockdown.
Doesn't have to mean I want it nerfed to death, I have a Supernova for PvE as well and I like balanced things.
Valiance doesn't create a wall. Alchemers were designed to make use of the ricochet. Antigua doesn't do damage.
Those are all fine guns. I still disprove of them being spammed blindly but at least they are balanced.
Pulsar line is not.. It's the easy mode gun in PvE and PvP.
If you think my proposed nerf is too severe then elaborate, no need to make it about me.
As I said, I get it's about denial of area regardless of how I feel about that, but it should indeed be less effective.
@Krakob: You're right, I suppose GMs will shut this down if we're out of bounds.
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 20:40
#31
and again...
@Seiran
yes, pulsar should be nerfed but not to 2 clip --a
their damage and hit box on expanded bullet is kinda ridiculous, out damage all gun and non expanded one should deal low damage not moderate damage. but that how game work... every gun have their own good in some situation and some can be more overpowered than other when someone realize or mastered gun mechanic, it almost same like brandish charge more popular than divine avenger in pve while in pvp divine avenger more shiny than brandish (except new shadow katana).
@Feyi
you should learn how to counter them not erase them from world~
if they gone or have different mechanic... then how can you revenge on them?
try to deal with it or just become one of them.
NO !? (>-.-)>