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Chaos is currently the strongest armor type

16 replies [Last post]
Sun, 05/18/2014 - 20:53
Kathrine-Dragon's picture
Kathrine-Dragon

I think that Chaos is currently the strongest armor type.

Why Cobalt is bad

Cobalt fails because of how it can't handle single target foes very well, with the exception of jelly cubes, which is but one enemy limited to piercing damage. If I want to wall the Roarmulus twins, my damage is going down the drain because the Roarmulus twins isn't piercing damage based, they're two mobs with one health bar that takes forever to reduce. The same goes for tortodrones and every other large mob.

Cobalt is also especially prone to bullet hell- you have to get in to use your weapon, and you cannot tank at all while charging. While doable, this still introduces extra strain on the player. Why bother using Cobalt when you can just change to Chaos?

Why Skolver is bad

A lot of people are quick to point out that Skolver has higher damage on swords. But I like to point out that the game doesn't care how high your damage per second is, it cares how high your damage per second per charge is. No matter how good a swordy I am, I'll always have to have greater risk when using a normal attack than I would from further with multiple brandish charges.

Further, the majority of strategies I've seen used to defeat the harder content in Spiral Knights revolve around charges, because most of the harder enemies punish you for using sword attacks. They do this by dealing area damage from up close, dropping poisonous splotches, surrounding themselves with fire balls, and using bullet hell against you. All of these scenarios make it very likely that you'll take damage using a sword against whatever you're fighting.

Why Chaos is good

Chaos has CTR which is mostly used at a distance as well as high single target damage, also at a distance. This combination is typically what you should be charging for. (That pun.)

The alchemers deal heavy statuses that allow you to clump together and stall mobs for lengths of time as well as snipe them with charges. If I'm using acheron or combuster, I have to walk up to a turret to hit it with a normal attack. If I'm using nova driver charge, I can deal very similar damage from quite far off with a well aimed charge attack.

The same goes for pulsars. If I fire from a distance, I deal area damage at a distance, safely. If I knock them into a corner or immobilize them, I have fairly high single target damage as well. A full party of people using this tactic works particularly well with itself. However I do not gain anything from Skolver or Cobalt; only Chaos.

Blitz needle offers high damage of all kinds from a distance. It immobilizes the user, which is a huge drawback and makes it really not all that amazing, except for against slow, frozen, or shielded mobs. When that happens, you're golden. It also helps out when you know what you're doing better than you have any right to. I can kill 3 slags in one charge after freezing them in place correctly. It has more significance, but I'll get to that later.

Brandish, Suda and Nitronome have more crowd control, and offer such great safety that I feel they are certainly worth mentioning. Having more than 2 charges per minute that deals lots of area damage gives them huge utility that they otherwise lack almost completely without Chaos-- especially for Suda/Nitro. You can almost just forgo all notion of being the most invincible awesome thing and charge indefinitely to win.

The biggest counter to Chaos are also defeated best by them. Status attacks and traps can be dealt with easily by charging from a distance, while trojans and other large shielded mobs are notably defeated by quick autogun charges. Most healing mobs rely on a mender of some sort, which can also be shut down using a charged handgun.. those with respawning healers can be dealt with using charged autoguns, to fully maximize damage taken.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 04:19
#1
Bamzalot's picture
Bamzalot
I'm going to combine threads a bit here...

Ok, so the best weapons are handguns,
The best armor is Chaos,

Perfect Mask of Seerus is the only thing you need to win this game. And I've learned that from personal experience.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 11:35
#2
Uberer-Alt's picture
Uberer-Alt

The best armor set depends on the room/enemies.

Just kidding, chaos is the best set ever and I use it everywhere.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 12:27
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make with this, or if its just a joke.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 14:06
#4
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven

I'd laugh at anyone that takes chaos into Heart of Ice (where skolver and snarbolax shine).
Oh wait, I did that a couple times.

Chaos' only drawback is the negative status resistances. If you can dodge getting hit with statuses, there is no reason not to use chaos everywhere. If you can't dodge the statuses, you will die very often.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 14:34
#5
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

"Chaos' only drawback is the negative shock resistance."

FYP.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 15:27
#6
Kathrine-Dragon's picture
Kathrine-Dragon
@Fehzor

My point is that this game has specific "best"s. I'm branching off of your thought that guns are the best and I'm adding onto it saying there are "best"s in other categories too. In a way this is another balance thread but it's a parodisical, honest thread about the balance. Not quite a joke as in "haha JK" but rather "that's true and it's funny and it's kinda sad". By the way, thanks for the great layout. I believe that it can apply to any "best" in the game. Easily.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 15:51
#7
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

So you're making fun of me instead of just writing down your point. Wonderful.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 16:52
#8
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
:/

Can someone please point out why are ppl still whining about these things? We all know Chaos and guns are OP (gun OP, ever tried valiance?) so why bother mentioning them? Just craft them and use it if you want your runs to be efficient.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 17:31
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I've been thinking these things about handguns for the longest time, and OOO highlighted it with the impending gunner update. So I thought it would be a lovely idea to discuss it, especially considering that A LOT of people find handguns underwhelming and poor in the face of swords.

This whole 'discussion thing' is generally what happens on forums, actually. I'm not protesting these things, I'm fine with handguns the way they are. I think that bombs could use some work, and that swords could use some newer+more creative designs, but that overall swords and guns work well for the game.

Why're you here, Midnight?

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 19:54
#10
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
lol

@Dibsville Fire is a thing, too!

@Midnight-Dj Can you stop? The last thing we need is another person like Tweeter who basically whines about "whiners" on discussion on balance. If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread, carry on, you don't need to post here with your negativity, man.

@Kathrine-Dragon I have to disagree. For swords and guns, there are "bests" indeedy. I'm not sure what you're thinking of besides the game's gear in terms of "best", but regarding armor, bombs, and shields, there is better gear for an area than another. Theoretically, Chaos is the best, but that's only granted that one can handle the obvious drawbacks it has, as well as the lag the game produces. Chaos can actually be god awful over something else in certain levels...C42, HoI, and GitM in particular can have you vomiting rectangles and sparks if you're very unlucky.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 20:59
#11
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
@Fehzor and Shadow

:/ I am not whining, you guys are the ones who are talking about the things that are already trivial matters. Things like Chao OP and Gun OP (?), 90% of the forum population has already come to an agreement, I just see no point of pointing them out over and over again. And speaking of Chaos, I never used it and I never will. Why, coz it is OP and I know it.

Chaos might be bad in C42 and GitM, but boy are they the least of a chaos user's worries. And as for weapons, I will just leave you with this, whether something is OP, it is really up to the player. Some ppl may use a cautery sword more effectively than some ppl with an Acheron, yes, that example is a bit off but I think you all know where I am getting at. The samething could be said about Chaos, it is really up to the player to make the most of it.

The overall reason why I project negativity toward threads like this is because that OP will always have to make up assumptions about the SK gaming community, as if all of us are either mindless vanaguard, LD elitist or otherwise.

I standby to the will and the strength of a human heart, there is no telling to what it is capable of.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 21:45
#12
Alphappy's picture
Alphappy

>We all know Chaos and guns are OP (gun OP, ever tried valiance?) so why bother mentioning them?
>I will just leave you with this, whether something is OP, it is really up to the player.
So, uh... have you taken a stance yet?

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 22:41
#13
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I never said that guns were OP... just that they were strongest on the whole. Quite a number of people also came to a much different conclusion than "guns OP". As for chaos, I'm not sure that this thread is even about that.

And whats wrong with talking about trivial things? We're doing it right now.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 23:22
#14
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
@Alphappy

Guns are never OP, did you not read the text in the bracket (gun OP, ever tried valiance?) , yes, I was mocking Fehzor's statment that guns are currently the strongest weapon (it clearly isn't, and valiance is the proof), and yes again, I was hypercritical about the whole thing and said it as 'OP'.

Chaos is only OP in relative terms, it is in theory the strongest set thanks to all of its CTR and ASI, hence it was okay for me to say that it is OP. It does not contridict with the 'relative to player' statment I made later, because Chaos can be really bad for those who has bad latencies (and vice versa).

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 23:24
#15
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
@Fehzor (double post)

I never asked anyone to stop talking about the trivial facts, you can, but I just want to know why.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 23:44
#16
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Did too ask us to stop talking about trivial things. "90% of the forum population has already come to an agreement, I just see no point of pointing them out over and over again."

And go talk about this in the thread I made about this instead of derailing the second thread about the same topic, but- How is valiance proof that guns are weak? Valiance is an incredibly safe weapon with moderate DPS that can make or break many loadouts... imagine something like FoV + Valiance, chaos cloak + fallen + fire sprite perk. Use FoV, then when you're low on health, farm for health by dodging out of the way. The same works for pretty much all semi-dangerous strategies as well as completely harmlesss ones. I'd hardly call that weak.

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