Spiral Knights - Token Trader

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9 replies [Last post]

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 19:25

Pupu

Legacy Username

Can we have all the good trinkets not be bought with forge sparks?
Let's see:

Primal Sparks: The most common tokens
Trinkets: Useless
- Sleep trinket: No monster in the game even deals this status
- Freeze trinket: Freeze is hardly an issue
- Piercing: Only lichens deal piercing, and they are easy to kill

Grim Sparks: Mid rarity tokens
Trinkets: Somewhat useful
- Shadow trinket: Somewhat useful for undead areas.
- Curse trinket: Only useful if you wear a faust and use the charge
- Poison trinket: Poison is hardly an issue

Forge Sparks: Most rare
Trinkets: Most useful
- Fire trinket: Fire is deadly, good trinket to have
- Shock trinket: Shock is deadly, good trinket to have
- Elemental trinket: Quite useful in most areas

Also, boss tokens: Some items for trade have ridiculous prices.
- How come 3 brute core are worth the same tokens as an antigua?
- How come 1 rocky core is worth the same tokens as a 3* Jelly item?
Those items even drop in the dungeon where you fight Jelly King.
Similar comment about Almirian Seals.

Also, why is Brinks present in Haven and Moorcraft, but not Emberlight or Guild Halls?

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 19:50

Sunless

The most common side effects

The most common side effects can only be bought with the most rare items? Well, gee. Who would have thought?

And if you want Almirian Tokens, go to the Citadel? Too hard? Deal with it.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 20:00

Loki

Legacy Username

The ''rarer'' tokens are much

The ''rarer'' tokens are much more common when you hunt in maps that are fittingly themed for it. You're more likely to get a Forge Spark from Construct maps for example.

I stopped doing Undead/Fiend-type maps for a long time, and noticed a huge decrease in the amount of Grim Sparks I was getting. I had been doing a lot of Slime/Beast and Gremlin/Construct and noticed I was finding many Primal and Forge Sparks.

My Sparks were at about 100+ Primal (Due to doing lots of Jelly Runs), 50+ Forge Sparks, and a mere 5 Grim Sparks (Because I hadn't been doing any Undead/Fiend). When I used to frequent the maps like Spiral Court, Cravat Hall, etc, I would get many Grim Sparks.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 21:55

Pupu

Legacy Username

@Replicant
So you take a backwards design pattern for obvious.
Then tell me to get Almirian Seals out of the blue.
Yeah... I have no idea what you're going on about here pal.

@Loki
Yes, I'm aware that tokens drop according to level themes.
This doesn't really solve the problem here.
Which is, all the most useful trinkets cost forge sparks, and the other easier tokens hardly serve a purpose.
The idea of the devs was probably that by playing a level a lot, you could get some items to make them easier.
Which has 2 problems:
1: Why get the item if you're already an expert at clearing the level?
2: Why did they put shock / fire / elemental in the same category when they are the most dangerous? (well, also normal, but there's no trinket)
The distribution of status-monster theme sharing tokens is completely arbitrary.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 22:22

jooozek

Legacy Username

Freeze is hardly an issue?

Freeze is hardly an issue? Freezelock+shield break is one of the things that really hurt :(

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 22:32

Sunless

So you take a backwards

So you take a backwards design pattern for obvious.

You don't give common ailments common solutions and uncommon ailments uncommon solutions. That renders for the latter moot and the former unnecessary. What causes the biggest ire is solved by collecting the rarest items. Otherwise they wouldn't be problematic at all, now would they? lrn2videogames

Then tell me to get Almirian Seals out of the blue.

That was my error. I misunderstood what you were referring to. Items are set on *level rather than independent and situational level. There's no reason to change them. I understand that you're referring to their common nature compared to the uncommon equipment. There's nothing that can be done about that.

Yeah... I have no idea what you're going on about here pal.

How surprising!

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 23:03

Pupu

Legacy Username

@Replicant The key of balance

@Replicant
The key of balance is that by getting one thing you sacrifice another, not rarity of equipment.
If getting defense for the most common implies surviving it lots of times, what do you need the defense for when you get it?
Rarity of items is used to prolong a games length "artificially", not to make them better/balanced/etc .
And even if that was the case, shock and fire are not the most common or rare status, they are just the most deadly if you lack resistance.
And more so, only trinkets fall in the "rare item" category, since crafting 5* gear is pretty much all the same.

There's nothing that can be done about that.
...Change the prices or replace them with better/rarer items?

I'd say you should lrn2civilconversation instead of judging posts as if you were the bearer of ultimate truth and everyone else brain dead.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 23:18

Sunless

The key of balance is that by

The key of balance is that by getting one thing you sacrifice another, not rarity of equipment.
If getting defense for the most common implies surviving it lots of times, what do you need the defense for when you get it?
Rarity of items is used to prolong a games length "artificially", not to make them better/balanced/etc .

You're... agreeing with me. Okay.

And even if that was the case, shock and fire are not the most common or rare status, they are just the most deadly if you lack resistance.

In terms of currently available trinkets, they ARE the most common.

And more so, only trinkets fall in the "rare item" category, since crafting 5* gear is pretty much all the same.

Again, you are agreeing with me. See below.

...Change the prices or replace them with better/rarer items?

You missed the point. I wasn't referring to changing the prices, I was referring to the fact you can't change the common nature of a 3* material to the uncommon nature of a 3*trinket, both of which are set to 3* prices. And you can't replace them when there's nothing to replace them with. After all, the rarest of materials are already available for purchase.

I'd say you should lrn2civilconversation instead of judging posts as if you were the bearer of ultimate truth and everyone else brain dead.

Cool ad hominem.

Thu, 06/02/2011 - 05:21

Brandermau

Legacy Username

Trade Rates

So I guess I might be missing your point as well. You say that you don't want the most useful trinkets to be bought with the rarest token. But you also don't think that the token prices for the materials are fair because there are alternatives to getting these materials and not for trinkets. Again if I'm missing the point I apologize.

These trinkets cost the less abundant resource so that they are more difficult to obtain. When I look at it, it makes perfect sense. Fire for example is something that a lot of people want to have because it does more damage than other effects. Being that there is a trinket that would make you more resistant to this damage, having it would make the game slightly easier. I say this because the less damage you can take from total sources the less chance you have of dieing and the less difficult a game becomes. They didn't want to make it easy for people to get the good trinkets so they make them purchasable only with the hardest to find token.

Now if it is the exchange rate imbalance between the materials you can get and these trinkets you are referring to then that is the developers issue. For the most part the prices seem fair for the rarity of the materials. The materials that correspond to token types are as we all know based on the creature types that have already been stated in this thread. I assume that the developers set the prices at what they believe are fair based on the assumed demand for the materials. In regards to the Jelly tokens, the mats are going to be associated with that dungeon, and the exchange rates are based on rarity.

Thu, 06/02/2011 - 19:54

Pupu

Legacy Username

Replies

@Replicant
We do not agree that much, since I still think the most useful trinkets should be more evenly distributed among token types.
There isn't a rarity scale among trinkets, since the tokens you get depend solely on which levels you play. They are all equally "rare".

Cool ad hominem.
Seemed like a fitting response to your implied ones.

@Brandermau
You don't quite follow me. For mats see the next point.
Forges aren't really THE RAREST tokens, just depends on the levels you play. I just want the useful trinkets (at this time) to be more evenly divided.
And you can reach max fire resist or max shock resist with just some good 5* armor. Most people go cookie cutter and get Vog.

@Mat prices
I'm talking about boss tokens here exclusively. There is no trinket mat comparison to do here, it's mat vs equipment or other mats.
The prices can and should be changed. The star rating has no relationship to them (for example, rock salt and swordstones cost the same despite star differences. And have a better price for their actual rareness / usefulness)
Do you even know anyone that ever spent tokens on a brute core or rocky core? The prices are nonsense. A noob trap if you wish to say so.

Final note:
This only applies to current content. When more content releases, probably the other defenses and status defenses will become more useful.
So I ask for this change so all tokens are equally useful with current content.
When the game gets more content, there will be most likely no difference in how useful different trinkets are.

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