BTB <-----> FF

19 replies [Last post]
Ecnalite's picture
Ecnalite

Greetings, fellow Haven-inhabitants ! Friendly gremlin here, I must say I have taken quite an interest in your... ah, intimidating armory. I just wanted to ask some of the knights who have crash-landed in Cradle inside what seems to be mechanical bubbles a simple question that I have been wondering about.

I will get straight to the point, I fear Punch and Vise needs me in a matter of time to decide which of the - er, 'toothpicks' would they base their prototype on. SO, here it goes:

Suppose one already possesses the mighty Barbarous Thorn Blade, a black-and-red -ish deadly blade inspired by the look of the fearsome (and unfortunately made 'the late' by some brave adventurers) Snarbolax. Would it still be wise to procure the astounding and paws-down shiny Final Flourish as well?

I will await your responses, for now I must deliver supplies to my brethren in Emberlight. I will be back soon !

Drischa's picture
Drischa

Greetings! I hope I can clarify some facts to make your descision more well-informed.

In regular attack, the final Flourish and Barbarous Thorn Blade are completely equal. They have exactly the same attack pattern, damage and range. The only differences between them are the looks and the charge attack.

You already know the Barbarous Thorn Blade's charge attack I assume - flinging multiple spikes doing high damage to an area in front of the user. It is arguably the better charge out of the two. The Final Flourish's charge is simple a quick three-hit lunge dealing high damage in a narrow path. The flourish's charge seem to only be useful for a few enemies tightly grouped together, while the Barb's charge attack can be used against a much larger group with the same effectiveness.

So overall, if one already owns the Barbarous Thorn Blade, the only reason one would ever really want to get the Final Flourish is for looks.

Tell Punch and Vise to base their design on the Barbarous Thorn Blade, and attampt to qork out the magic that creates the thorns upon releasing the charge. Then make their own version shoot something equivalent to either Callahan charge bullets for Supernova shots!

Ecnalite's picture
Ecnalite
I say !

Thank you, Drachronos, Punch and Vise will be glad to hear someone who has actually seen a Final Flourish in action ! I, sadly, have not yet seen a toothpick in use because I frequently travel with knights using other swords, like that Giant Hammer Thing and the Dark Samurai Sword-looking thing, I must say I am glad I'm not the ones at the edge of those blades. I will inform masters Punch and Vise right away that they should base their prototype on the Barbarous Thorn Blade. I hope they don't accidentally skewer anyone in the process...

Bopp's picture
Bopp
no

I compare the piercing swords in my detailed sword guide here. BTB and FF are both great, but they are very similar, and there is no reason to have both. In fact, I would say that obtaining both is crazy, unless you're an extreme end-game player who is trying to collect all of the weapons or something like that.

I have both of these swords (and Fearless Rigadoon and Furious Flamberge). I generally use Final Flourish, because I have stronger UVs on it, because I was able to mass-craft 2-star Flourishes to get these UVs. That's harder to do with BTB, because it comes from a boss reward. But if you're using Punch, then this distinction doesn't matter either.

Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

No, most certainly not.

I have both, and I'd use Barbarous Thorn Blade over Final Flourish any day of the week. As Bopp said, "In fact, I would say that obtaining both is crazy, unless you're an extreme end-game player who is trying to collect all of the weapons or something like that." This is about as good as it gets when choosing whether or not you should make both. It's pretty useless to have both, and Barbarous Thorn Blade quite honestly has the more useful charge.

The only reason I ever even consider using Final Flourish is because Barbarous Thorn Blade doesn't have the weapon trail in Low Quality, but Final Flourish does.

And if you're going for UV's, just Punch your Barbarous Thorn Blade. Final Flourish can wait.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
easier; maybe not better

I agree that the BTB charge is easier to use safely, than the FF charge is. The BTB charge disrupts a bunch of monsters, while the FF charge has a big cooldown period in which monsters may hit you.

I'm not sure that the BTB charge is better than the FF charge, though. The FF charge does pretty enormous damage. I use it all the time. But I almost never see anyone else using it.

Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

I use the FF charge a lot; it's great for one-shotting a newly spawned pack of Devilites before the boss can buff them.

Ahodori's picture
Ahodori
Sometimes

I find the FF to be more useful on trojans. I don't know if anybody else does though.

Avenger-Of-Troy's picture
Avenger-Of-Troy
The BTB

is most effective -mew- on trojans:

Charging -mew- and biting a trojan with the fury of a -mew- snarbolax, is very -mew- effective!

Tell -mew- punch and vise that the BTB is the way to go!

-mew- I would not want to be the ectoplasm in the tooth of that toothick's user!

Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

Isn't the FF better on Trojans because the charge does more damage than BTB does?

Bopp's picture
Bopp
hard to say

If you can land a bunch of the BTB projectiles on your target, then it might do comparable damage to the FF charge. I haven't tested this kind of thing in years. Someone please do.

Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

@Bopp

I can personally say that Final Flourish is much more powerful with its charge, comparable even to a Brandish charge, if not doing a staggering amount more than your average Brandish charge. Barbarous Thorn Blade can do a large chunk of damage, even going so far as to one-shotting bigger enemies like Trojans if placed correctly, but it can not compare to a solid Final Flourish charge.

There is certainly no contest which is stronger, Final Flourish is well beyond Barbarous Thorn Blade even if you landed most/all of the thorns.

EDIT: Don't know why I actually posted without testing... I'm just a little biased..

Level 10 Barbarous Thorn Blade charge example: http://i.imgur.com/HFmLUjq.png
Level 5 Final Flourish charge example: http://i.imgur.com/Ty1XCt1.png

To sum it up very quickly, they did very similar damage at this level, however my Final Flourish is 5 levels behind my Barbarous Thorn Blade.

Sadly, I couldn't get better pictures because of lag every time I attacked an enemy, but you get the idea. It's worth mentioning that at these levels and this depth, my Final Flourish only does about 5/8 the damage of my Barbarous Thorn Blade.

-----

Miscellaneous:

With that said, Final Flourish is very situational in most cases. The long cooldown added to the long distance it covers makes it dangerous to use if not timed correctly. Plus the fact that missing one of the swipes drops your total damage done by a staggering amount, it has to be well placed unless you're in a big group where you're not going to miss anyway. In contrast, Barbarous Thorn Blade just locks enemies down and takes out large groups with no problem, and missing your target has very little consequences as you're usually bound to get at least a couple thorns off.

I could actually go so far as to say that Final Flourish is more useful in Beast stratums, but Barbarous Thorn Blade is more useful in Fiend stratums.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
agree

To be clear, I have both of these swords (and Furious Flamberge and Fearless Rigadoon). I use only Final Flourish these days, because it happens to have the best UVs. So I'm not at all against FF. I just didn't want to make strong statements about its damage, without detailed knowledge. I agree that FF's charge is powerful and not always safe.

Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

inb4 people confuse good aiming/well placement with AT.

Yay, now I feel justified in spending those Radiants on my Deadly Candy Poker!

Mystrian's picture
Mystrian

In before turns into silly arguement...oh wait

Own-Deschng's picture
Own-Deschng
BTB or FF

FF=more damage
BTB=safer

Particled's picture
Particled
My opinion?

Because these two swords are almost 100% interchangeable gameplay-wise, I'd say go for appearance. I chose Final Flourish because who doesn't love an elegant, shiny weapon of mass destruction. It also happened to go nicely with my costume.

EDIT: @OP, seeing as you already have the BTB, you should probably stick with it.

Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
...

I would appreciate BTB charge more if it doesn't dash backward.
silly video FF charge in action -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkEc3oedTfI

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

The real difference between the two charges is how they are best used. Barb thorn blade offers simple crowd control, and is well suited for dealing with large numbers of enemies. Final flourish is much better at aiming through a crowd and singling out one enemy- like a gremlin mender or silkwing- and maximizing damage against that, or otherwise dealing the most possible to one target. Like a turret or a trojan.

Red-Galaxy's picture
Red-Galaxy
i would think that the FF

i would think that the FF does more damage on its charge attack than BTB's, but i would find BTB's to be much safer to use. how would i know anyway? I only have a BTB

anyways i would not get both of the swords as they are the same in any way except for design and charge attack, but if you do get a BTB and want another sword from the flourish line. i would either get furious flamberge or fearless rigadoon