This is all very correct and unfortunate. in all honestly, people think the gunner update is going to save the game. While it may, but for how long? If the gunner update has just guns and armor in it, sure, it'll keep me playing, but that's because i'm invested into this game, 26 days, im not letting that time go to waste until this game either dies out, or it just gets incredibly stale.

What about the people who don't want guns or armor, that want things like new enemies, bosses, levels, missions, depths, new mechanics, expansions on multiplayer.. Those people will be back for about a week, a month at most, and be off again. The design team doesn't seem like they're actively looking for anyone either. Sure, they have a little help wanted thing on their site, but they're partnered with SEGA, you'd think that they could use that as a plug to get a larger team, since more people probably visit SEGA's site then OOO's.

I just don't understand. Before, this game had a nice update flow of content with promos being balanced in between. What happened? Ever since the battle sprite update, the changelogs have gotten smaller, and smaller. Its bad. At times i start to think that nick taking his leave marked the death of this game. Now it just seems like they're just barely scraping by promo to promo, no silence of new costume items and reskins for a good 1-2 months i believe. That makes it look like 3 things:

1) They're trying to keep us content with promos and stuff so we don't just sit around and do nothing all day and grow rabid for the new content.

2) They're doing this to gain money over the content droughts since a very small portion of the community is spending money on the game when there isn't a promo going on it seems. And they're just scraping by with that money. (Best possible outcome is they're saving it for something).

3) Both.

I really hope the answer is option 1.

First of all, use italics. Otherwise, it's hard to see your responses. Second of all, turn off that caps lock, it's making me mentally deaf.

You can deny the game being near death all you want but the signs are there. I can tell mainly because I used to follow everything about this game religiously. Plus back when I was a merchant all I did was sit in haven and move in and out of each haven, I know what haven is suppose to look like, I know what trade chat is suppose to look like. Frankly I can go by observations simply due to the fact I been around this game long enough to know the strength of the player base. Don't even get me started on guilds I know plently about them as well, it certainly speaks volumes when easily the strongest guild in the game finally says so long in Jempire. They were a long long time guild second to only EOS in support to spiral knights. Plus there is also the signs from the developers but you guys are already well versed on that so I won't go into it. Plus I know more then anyone that the forums is the fraction of the game but they are also the most devoted players.

Oh look, Trade Chat and Haven are emptier. It's not like not everyone isn't a merchant and that there aren't like 4000 Havens existing now. Oh look guilds have died, it's not like another dozen have sprang up in their stead. It's not like Jempire doesn't instantly die when a member of it quits the game.

Which signs from the devs? I'm curious.

The forums are the most devoted players? Bahahahaha. Many of us here don't even play Spiral Knights anymore, much less support it.

OF course you don't have to buy them but the fact is the keep releasing them before releasing any new content. Let me make something clear to you. THEY SHOULDN'T BE FOCUSING ON MONEY THEY SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON MAKING THE GAME BETTER BECAUSE PROMOS DOESN'T KEEP PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME!!!!! AND IF IT DOES ITS FOR THE SOLE REASON OF HOLDING ON TO THE PROMO ITEMS TO MAKE A PROFIT BUT GUESS WHAT THERE WILL BE NO ONE TO SELL IT TOO IF THEY KEEP THIS UP!

Them caps. My ears. y u do dis

Do you think the Developers aren't making the game better? What's the art team supposed to do, turn into politicians and drink coffee all day long?

Second of all why is the art team doing nothing? Shouldn't their main priority if they are no longer needed for gunner update to make other content uh wink wink NEW BOSS MAYBE? Half of these promos are reskins they should take almost no time to create and based on the increased volume over time this is the case.

Says who that the art team does nothing? Says who they aren't working on tons of other stuff besides a promotion? It's incredibly easy to make a reskin; it takes like 5 minutes to swap the colors around with a full team. What do you think they do for the rest of the day? Neither of us can prove the other incorrect here however, so let's move on.

Well for one I would send them a message asking them to tell them the reason why they left, and what it would take for them to get them back. After getting the results make plan to retain those players using that information. Everyone has different reasons for quitting so figuring out how to lure them back would require getting some information first.

How are you supposed to message a player who's left? It's not like they'll be in Spiral Knights to get a mail.

I am sure that did happen but he doesn't even need to talk. Before they used to talk via zone chat(announcements) and do giveaways. Like CE giveaways and whatnot. They don't have to sit in haven and try to communicate, I saw them in haven one time NICK, Chronus and a few others still have the pictures they were snipes and just made little jokes and played in the fountain. Stuff like that was cool just for people to know they exist that's all. The devs talk to settle very minor disputes or game related issues. They used to do interviews and take questions and that was cool for a while. Honestly would more participation actually kill them? No if anything that will increase the friendship between players and devs if you want to hear less rage against the developer that would be the way to do it.

- Giveaways would result in people making alts for the sake of winning, like they did in the New Year's giveaway.
- The devs do not post on the forums often. It's the Community Managers.
- If the devs take a stand on one thing, the people on the other side complain. If they take no stand, a smaller amount of people complain. If they take a stand and say too much, their bosses complain. Also, have you bothered to read this?

Your probably right it may be getting the least amount of profit(cough another sign it might be dieing no?) but wouldn't you think that if you invested into your product that you might see higher profit? And out of the games they have which has the most potential to reap the benefits of that said investment. PROBABLY SPIRAL KNIGHTS. Honestly these promos are really profitable to the developer why else would they keep making one after another? If you say to keep the players happy your lying. It to keep the money flowing in which I am fine with so long as it going to keep the game going as well as being used to improve the game. However so far it has been taken in but the game hasn't seen the benefits from it.

I'm most likely not right it's getting the least amount of profit, as that would result in Spiral Knights being abandoned, like it did in Doctor Who: Time Legacies.

How the heck do you know Spiral Knights has the most potential? What if a thousand other people disagree? What if those thousand people are the main financial supporters of Three Rings? Once again, neither you nor I have enough evidence, so drop the matter.

The promos are made because there's a bored art team. You seem to ignore that part.

The game hasn't seen the benefits? It's still running isn't it? There's been testing servers haven't there? A bunch of people in that thread said they wouldn't quit Spiral Knights, would they? Like Bopp said:

Whimsicality perfectly expressed my attitude, and the attitude that all players should have: The game is adorable and fun. Don't take it too seriously. When you get bored, don't melodramatically delete your stuff and quit. Just go off and do something else. When you feel like playing again, return and have some fun.

Such arguments....

I'm guessing you can't read between the lines, because my reply was laden with sarcasm. Why are you ignoring me telling you to use italics? Seriously, italic quotes, because it takes quite a while for me to distinguish between your text and mine.

IDK NICK LEAVING which could have many different theories but losing a lead developer who has been with the game since day 1 is never good. Or taking over 9 months to release a simple content update that may have been in the works for much longer.

ZOMG Nick left. Notch left Minecraft confirmed Minecraft is dying.

That is true that is me, but you don't have to play it to be devoted the fact that you even bother to come on here and participate in the world of spiral knights even after leaving it means something. Don't insult the people on the forums however many are trolls but there are a lot of people here who care about the game deeply. Pretty much any player is using the forums in some way. Using bazzar, asking questions, looking for guilds, making suggestions, there is more to the forums then just general discussion.

I'm not insulting the forumers, but just because you use the forums does not necessitate the fact that you're easily one of the most dedicated players.

so you can understand that 250 of my friends didn't stay because of promos. That countless guilds namely Jempire, knightmare, Guild all left due to two reasons lack of content/ or real life issues. Promos may line your pocket but eventually u will lose more and more people if that is your priority. Those people whether f2p or P2P leaving is never good. For one the p2p might have f2p friends and those players leaving might make the p2p leave. And it completely ends the chance that the f2p might someday become a p2p. There are plenty of promos close to one new promo each month if they loved them they would still be here no?

I can understand that as 250 of your friends left, 2500 more people came in. I can understand that Jempire is not dead, albeit EoS died in a massive explosion. Promotions are from bored art team people.

I believe you need an email to sign up for the game, I get emails still even though I am no longer playing. In fact here is one tidbit that did the exact same thing I mentioned even got a gift! So they have done it once I can't say for sure if anything came from this survey but it shows they are capable and know who is active and no longer playing.

Hello!

As part of our ongoing dialogue with the Spiral Knights player community, we are reaching out to players who were significantly active in the game, but have since become inactive. For that reason, we'd like to ask you for some additional feedback on your experience with the game. This request is entirely optional and is intended to help us improve the game and decide on future additions and changes.
* At first glance, what was the single most important factor that encouraged you to play Spiral Knights?
* Can you remember your impressions of the game from your first time playing? Were they positive?
* Was it clear to you how the game economy worked? Did it seem reasonable and fair?
* As you gained more experience, what aspect of the game was most exciting?
* Can you tell us what aspect of the game you liked least?
* As mentioned earlier, it seems like you have stopped playing the game regularly. Can you share the reason why? Is there something that would incline you to play the game more? A specific feature or change?

We really appreciate your feedback! As a thank you for taking the time to respond to this mini-survey, we'd like to give you a small gift: a Solstice Prize Box! You can claim this gift on any of your characters by entering the following key into the Redeem Code menu accessible from within Spiral Knights...

For starters, they already had a survey. Second, a Solstice Prize box is not a small gift. That's like giving everyone, alts included, a Shadow Lair Key. Third, you could have gotten a new email.

Cause I spent countless hours talking to other people in this game and anyone who seriously got into this game felt this had great potential. I known plenty of people who poured hundreds of dollars into this game sometimes thousands. And also because I couldn't find another game like this. It's unique in many ways and not a copy and paste mmo like so many out there. Hack and slash rpg that has a zelda like feel. Come on this game has a lot of potential. I don't need financial reports to tell me this.

So you're saying that because it's unique and you knew some people who spent money that it automatically means it makes more money than any other game OOO will ever produce.

"Says who that the art team does nothing?" You did

I meant that the art team has nothing else to do besides making promotions until the developers finish coding what they're doing. You don't seem to be able to understand me implying things.

LOL I thought a lot of people wouldn't end up quitting spiral knights and they all eventually did a person can only get some much enjoyment out of a game for so long. And Based on what I see ya its still running(barely) but also no it hasn't seen any benefits. Still very little content here despite what it was originally at launch. For a game nearing 4 years old it should be much farther along.

It's not "barely" running, compared to Doctor Who: Time Legacies. However, you don't have evidence that the game is dying. You're saying your friends left the game. Alright, my friends in Runescape have left the game. ZOMG the game is dying.

You don't need to educate me I am well aware eurydice handles this. That being said never talking is worse have the courage to face your playerbase many other companies do whether good or bad you can't be invisible I believe that is worse.

First of all, it's not only Eurydice that handles this, although Eury is kewl beans.

Courage to face your playerbase? More like not having the answer, because the community managers aren't the developers, and they don't know what the Devs have planned themselves.

Lol longest argument I had in spiral knights in a long time. Good stuff. So let round 3 begin.

*insert bacon sandwich gif because popcorn is too mainstream*

I like to make my opponents suffer muhahaha!!!

Q_Q

Cant compare spiral knights to minecraft. Minecraft has sold millions upon millions of copies. Spiral knights is an ant compared to minecraft. Nick leaving a game that has yet to reach its peak is not good however way you put it.

Can't compare Spiral Knights to other MMO's. It's unique, and an ant compared to other ones.

Okay but your wrong course there are people like myself who stopped playing regularly and still use it but there are tons of active players that need the forums. A dedicated player of spiral knights will use the forums for something. Like I said there is more to the forums then general discussion.

I know plenty of dedicated people who don't use the forums. In the end, the forums dedication is about the same as the general game, if not lower.

You seem to like facts very well then, my friends leaving is a fact I can see that by looking at their names. However 2500 people coming in after those kids left is not a fact, that an assumption. Plus my friends were hardcore spiral knights players not some randoms that played for one hour and never played again. You don't want to lose the 250 active kids for 2500 one time players.

Do you know what the biggest Steam player spike was? Not OCH, not the guild hall update, but the removal of mist energy and the Battle Sprites.

They have surveys for players that are still playing but not for people who left. That why they made that email. Yes that wasn't a small gift but that is their words not mine. Yes could have gotten a new email but they got in touch with me it worth a shot no?

I'm pretty sure that they also emailed everyone about the survey. Their words? You came up with it :P

The right investment via content/advertisement I am sure it will. There are a lot of factors but yes based on what I know from other players and base on my own investment into the game. And also the uniqueness of the game which like I said can't find another game like this. I don't need financial reports to see potential. Just like when you look at a basketball player with a vertical of 48 inches he has potential to be a force athletically in the nba. He might have stunk in college but that unique jumping ability if properly developed could make him a force. He has potential get it?

Like I've said before, just because you see potential doesn't mean we do. It's like if your nose is clogged, and you think a smelly, but pretty flower has potential to be the most common flower in a city.

Like I said before I am making observations based on what I know about the game. And what it looks like to me is the game is dieing. And no I have no evidence just as you have no evidence that its not. So it goes both ways.

Albeit, in general the player community has increased, from that Steam chart about number of people playing. I've misplaced the link however; if someone could help out, that'd be nice.

Yes there are others but eury just comes to mind because she was the most prevalent.

But...Aphrodite Q_Q

Don't they work for the same company? Its called email/chat/telephone any information from the developer they need they should be able to get.

Well, Equinox wanted us players to see if item drops still worked, despite being part of the same company. I think they also work in separate buildings, so as to prevent distractions or something.

this game is near to death~ not because bad server, lack content or promo stuff. but because this game is hidden for long time --a
advertise this game again might be a good choice but not going to be effective if not supported with server that can handle people outside of us and eu, and sure this game is unique or not other game have system and gameplay like this (there's one but im not going to tell though -,-) another reason why this game have high rating and good review in old days~
the new gunner update not going to hold or extend people lifespan longer than community and target to get cool costumes, like what op said.. people going to beat it in no time. thats why get better server (so all can play together or not separate just to get better connection and to decrease people ego in lockdown who take advantage of people connection) > advertise (this game is hidden, seerus) > get more player (sk become more lively or not haunted and more people spend money to this game) > have enuf money to hire more stuff (now new content not going to took 1 year because they have more worker~).

I think that OOO needs to finish with their massive entire game redux before promoting their work. As far as I've seen, this includes:
-Arcade redux = Only part one was finished; we should be able to build gates again
-New mission segments = apparently this was needed? I guess finishing the plot was a given
-New cooperative challenge
-Weapon/Gear redux = gunner update; they still need to do one for swords, bombs, and armors.
-Events = way to hide the fact that they are unable to produce content fast enough. This is fine as is, and doesn't need any more work.

I also think that they should add a level editor for players to use, or failing that (because they don't think it's plausible- even if it took a year to develop.. well, it's taken them that already) they could make some kind of endless arena, or something else.

And finally, if they had a day of the week where they showed what they'd done and talked about the development just a bit, it would be understandable why and that there wasn't any content releases for months on end. Aphrodite came on and commented with just that they are working on it, and it made all of the hurt Echo of Silence members quite happy with them once again. I'm sure they could avoid spoilers if they wanted to, but most people are fully capable of spoiling the game on their own. I'd be a lot happier to buy boxes with my nonexistent cash if they talked to us in an unprofessional manner about what they thought of the game, and I have a feeling (but no hard fast evidence, because oh, we WILL be going there EVERTIM) that I'm not alone.

Wow, someone actually proved the game is "dying" without thinking a series of observations like an empty haven or guild is proof. But a set of cold, hard, unbiased, objective statistics and data. Color me impressed.

Mind you, this isn't a death sentence. I assume this doesn't count the non-steam using players, which means it's lacking record of the full population. If it does, either way the moment they patch that update a bunch of them will come crawling back. They always do, then the cycle continues.

But what if Steam is only a small fraction of the population!?

Sure, Steam doesn't tell us everything about everyone, but this is how most statistics are calculated.
When you want to know how many times the average Italian person eats pizza every week, you don't ask every single living Italian. You take a small part of the population, and based on that you make an estimate.
So, our estimate is that, AS OF TODAY, the game has about half as many players as it did during July 2012, a.k.a. when SK was launched on Steam.

That unfortunately tells you that OOO has done a poor job over the past 2 years.
If today your company has 1.3k customers, and in 2 years your company has 700, to me that's pretty damn bad.

I'm the first one to cheer on SK and hope it lives a long life, but I'm afraid it won't. Let's enjoy it until it exists.

@Purepwn and Reto-Da-Liz

Okay...you have a point. But don't tell me that I didn't warn ya! *Tips bombhead mask*

CRAP SOMEBODY GET A BUCK- *Headsplodes*

And the topic continued happily without Autofire

The game is certainly dying, and I hate to admit that after spending so much of my life playing it (almost a third of a year, full days that is, spent on my character, puts things in perspective).

It could've been so much better, but with reductions in staff size, unless Sega helps to invest and SK becomes more of a priority in OOO's eyes, I doubt they'll manage to conjure up anything that'll get the game back on track.

i hate to tell you guys but steam is the best source for sk player right now for lot of reason..
other source like game rating in gaming website, kongregate, armor games and etc not even close to half player base in steam --a

This is the second thread about the state of SK on the front page of general discussion.
Both are insightful threads, by people who know what they're talking about.

I can't for the life of me see how there would be no response from OOO, but I'm not counting on it.
This game has all the makings of greatness, and a community that takes every opportunity to point out what could be better.
How someone could not capitalise on that is beyond me sadly.