Economy / How do you make money?
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 08:13
First, I'll introduce my self as this is my second post on the site. I'm Holy-Aether A.K.A. David K? and I started last week.
I actually almost quit after I found out wasting mist, deleting my Char, and noticing my old mist was still the same... I felt cheated lol.. new characters share mist and CE as well which sort of sucks.
Anyway, I'm sort of wondering how do you make money on the game?
===CE and Arena===
Right now in the market the lowest price for 100CE is 5300. That is 53CR per 1CE.
This means it cost 70CE:3710CR or 80CE:4240CR to go through a tier.
I felt really lucky that I went into the Treasure Vault because I assumed I was going to make some good money!
Instead I made 403CR almost enough to cover the 530CR cost to go through the gate. Whoopee! :D
===Crafting===
I've also noticed crafting isn't worth it because well lets take it from their point of view. "Assuming they buy the recipe from the vender and find the Mats".
Lets craft a 5 Star Weapon.
So, I pay 25,000 Crowns for the recipe.
5,000 Crowns to make the item, along with its Mats that I'm pretending I have.
Then 42,400 Crowns for the 8 things of 100CE's I can get on the market for 5300CR.
So it cost me 72,400CR to make my 5 Star Weapon.
What about a new player crafting a 2 Star Weapon, or those wanting to sell the weapons.
1,000 Crowns for the Recipe, the Mats, 1000 crowns to make the weapon, and 2,650 crowns to get the 50CE assuming
I am out of mist. So that is 4,650 Crowns to produce a weapon , lets pretend it is Calibur. So in the market the cheapest one is 2k.
Because I'm a semi smart new player, figuratively speaking, I will list mine as 2,000 or slightly below it to make sure it gets sold so I do not lose my listing fee or however much money.
Four hours later I get lucky and someone buys my sword for 2,000 CR's minus the 200 CR from the 10% fee.
1,800 - 4,650 = -2,850
Whoops, looks like I won't be selling any 2 Star Weapons for a while.
===Listing Fee===
So, semi experienced and gone through the arena a few times, assuming I have not bought CE, or died at all and used Energy to revive, I managed to go into the Arena 6 times in 5 days. 80E per day, giving me a free run after 5 days. I managed to collect 150 Gel Drops. It seems the cheapest price in the AH is 25 Gel Drops for 250CR = 10CR per Drop.
So I am going to do 10CR per Drop too! 150 Drops for 1,500CR.
If someone buys it, I will make 1,350CR which is good considering I can buy 1/3 the CE needed to go into an 80 Energy run in the Arena.
If no one decides to buy it, seeing as the Listing Fee is 3,750CR, it looks like I'm going into debt. Why the listing fee should be more then you can actually make, who knows. It almost makes me want to not make money selling materials, and to save up materials for the expensive crafting items.
===Arena===
Now I haven't tested it, excluding Tier1 which I heard someone got 3000CR which doesn't cover the whole run for CE, but it doesn't seem like Tier2 gives you much to cover it either. However, I have seen around people saying they make up to 8-10k on a run.. Obviously I need to stop doing Solo runs because I seem to make up to 3,000 and end up losing more CR due to the CE it takes to revive. I usually stop after 20 keeping in mind 20CE is wasting 1060 of my crowns.
I'll have to do some test to figure this out.
Yes I do seem to die a lot, but at least after reaching the breakpoint with basil.
I have 5* radiant silvermail coat, 4* elemental hood, 5* dread sword, 4* owlite shield. I still get into tough spots where my shield breaks and I end up dying.
So again I ask you, how exactly do you make CR?
In my opinion the AH is your best bet... but should it be?
I almost quit after my first 100mist went out and I didn't know what else to do..
It seemed more like a Facebook game where you wait a day to do things again..
===EDIT===
Lets say I am on 1 Star and need to craft a 2 Star weapon going to 5 Star. Putting this simply. "Again, pretending I have all the mats most people usually don't"
2 Star
Recipe - 250 Crowns
Crafting - 400 Crowns | E:2,650 Crowns
Total: 11,250 Crowns
3 Star
Recipe - 4000 Crowns
Crafting - 1,000 Crowns | E:10,600 Crowns
Total: 15,600 Crowns
4 Star
Recipe - 10,000 Crowns
Crafting - 2,500 Crowns | E:21,200 Crowns
Total: 26,200 Crowns
5 Star
Recipe - 25,000 Crowns
Crafting - 5,000 Crowns | E:42,400 Crowns
Total: 72,400 Crowns
Full Total: 125,450 Crowns "Pretending we have all the materials, and enough CE to level everything up."
Multiply this by 5 for two weapons, coat, hat, and shield and you have paid 627,250 for full 5 Star equipment.
A lot of the materials cost a lot, and some of the 5 Star things have 10,000CR mats... you guys can do the math for the mats.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 08:37
#2
Have you tried
Do a jelly king run. floors 9-16, you easily make 5.5-6.3k on average. That being said you only use 70 energy. That is a net gain of 30 energy. Slow and steady.
Of course you could always buy CE, but eh.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 08:54
#3
Right...
Yesterday I went on a T1 run to unlock the new Jelly King gate, and for kicks I checked my income. I bought my CE buy putting up a buy offer at 4850, although today it would be over 5k, but still less than 5300. A depth 1 arena got me 530 crowns; if a depth zero arena is breakeven to marginally profitable, then depth 5-7 arenas should be quite profitable.
I did a danger room at depth 3, and for my 3CE there (say 159 crowns today's prices) I made ... I forget the exact number but it was over 200 crowns. Treasure vaults above the tier halfway terminal usually do not pay for themselves, and treasure vaults below the tier halfway usually barely pay for themselves (or don't quite pay for themselves if 5200+ CE prices are maintained, at least T1 treasure vaults.)
HOWEVER, treasure vaults often give a lot of tokens and every level gives materials. If you are running breakeven on crowns, you can sell materials to make an actual profit by selling materials at the AH. You can also simply buy equipment or trinkets and then sell them back to vendors to cash in your tokens quickly and without messing with the AH, but at a lesser profit. (The brinks-kozma cash-in-tokens dance! Less appealing now that hearthstones are fixed.)
Graveyards are much better profit if you can get your party to cooperate and actually get every zombie, gravestone, and treasure box. This is the 'real' treasure vault (at least in T1, T2. Many parties cannot handle T3 graveyards.)
The coins you scrape together this way can be used to buy 2* or even 3* equipment from the AH at below crafting costs, saving you the cost of a recipe, getting you into T2, where the profits are better.
Crafting is only profitable if you are patient, sell your crafted non-UV items for over 3K - still a loss when you add in material value, but a small one, that can be recouped by selling UVs for a higher price. Roughly speaking, you can sell a 2* item for 3k-3.2k and can sell a low UV for 5-7k (more if that UV is CTR or ASI), which should keep you marginally profitable until you get a real profit from a higher UV.
And of course the standard answer: Jelly King Runs
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 11:07
#4
i take a more entrepreneurial
i take a more entrepreneurial approach by selling things of high value at prices higher than I bought them.
It is also possible (and is very easy) to do this with the CE market.
The base rule of economics is of course "Buy low, and sell high".
The rest is up to you =)
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 14:51
#5
I've got 2 ways of doing
I've got 2 ways of doing money.
-Start/Join a tier 2 run.
-Make sure I don't die and get to the terminal
-Pray for Basil to sell me some goods recipes
-Buy most popular recipes (Striker, Silversix, Avenger, Cutter, Vaporizers/Atomizers, etc)
-Go to haven and sell them for around twice the initial value (depends on the repice, for example Striker recipe can be found for around 12k in AH, while it only costs 4000 to get it from basil)
-Repeat until out of mist, spend 20 resting energy in making 2 Haze bombs hoping to get UV:CRT
When im out of mist, I start playing the market, or maybe when I got little time and can't do a complete run. Selling and buying energy, I can usually get 20-50 CR per buy+sale, depending on the state of the market and the wall building morons.
I didn't even get to Tier 3 so I know little compared to other people, that's my 2 cents
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 15:04
#6
This was more metaphoric than literally the case.
This is exactly how I made my money and had my 4 Star and 5 Star equipment... I just didn't feel the need to state it. Excluding the CE Market, unless you aren't more patient and can wait a few days.. usually the profit is less than 50 Crowns, and the fact that you need 50,000 Crowns only to buy 10 100's to make 500 Crowns profit deterred me a bit lol..
jooozek:
Thank you. :]
Tan_Horseman and Senshi:
I'd still like to do a few tests for that, as for waiting out to have mist... not likely lol..
I will do 5 runs to see how much I make for 9-16.
Although, you could be right Senshi, You might get more Mats to sell from a Treasure Vault that could make it more worth it.
I typically avoid Graveyards, and since I was taught to run like heck.
Selling certain 2 Star and 3 Star items aren't profitable, and probably because of the whole UV thing. Problem is new players may not know this.
This isn't too much of a problem because a lot of people don't know how to use the AH, even older players whom I would have thought would have figured it out. Some take the lowest price they see without checking the sort > buyout price.
Either way, the post wasn't quite for my self, as it was a new player type of view point to show what I believe are problems right now.
I'm actually doing semi-alright being someone attache to the Auction House. I hardly go into the Arena to make my money which would make some people wonder what the point of the game is if the only thing you are doing is using the AH. I just find it more fun, and profitable. :]
I try to learn about the economy and how things are, which also in a reason I've posted this thread to bring attention things I thought could use slight improvement...
Where as I am 22 years old, and for the most part know how to make money buying and selling and younger generations may not.. The Arena may be the only way for them. I do appreciate the tips though!
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 15:06
#7
The slow and steady way - 80
The slow and steady way - 80 energy to do a jk run, makes about 6k and you'll have 20 energy left of your 100.
The fast way - check basil, buy popular recipes and sell them. With the change to bound equips, everyone has to make their own gear. This means every player that wants to use a weapon / armor must buy the recipe. Look at the ah for what's popular, you'll prolly get a feel for it soon enough.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 15:09
#8
Tier3
Ooh, knowing the recipes are definitely a good thing to know, thank you. I wouldn't have got the Atomizer..
As for Tier3... I advise you not to go XD.. It's pretty scary down there.. I started about a week ago and skipped 3 Star and almost got all my stuff to 5 Star keeping in mind my armor is mainly for looks... the last party in Tier3 someone resurrected the party twice, and I died about 4 times in one room, then we ended up quitting. It was horrible yet hilarious. I won't be going down to 3 in a while.. lol
Unless you have a good party.. a lot of times I do die the most, but I've had friends who have gotten us through.. it still makes me sad I don't feel I'm really a help though..
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 16:02
#9
One quick comment
Your math assumes you will only sell one of any given item. The actual recipe cost is effectively split amongst all the equipment you craft using it. So yes, if you sell only one 3* item the total cost of production may be 15,600. But if you sell ten of that 3* item, the cost per item is only 12,000. So you can make a profit even at a lower price, if you sell enough volume.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 16:12
#10
Well
I'm a nice person. The other day, I saw a guy fresh out of the rescue camp. I gave him a calibur, shadowtech, wolves set and owlite shield. All I do is rj runs, all day everyday. And I didnt lose much money dropping:
250CE
Mats for owlite wolver cap and coat calibur and shadowtech
2k cr
And I bought these recipes too. So I dropped all that cash, and I'm not on the verge of an anguished breakdown for losing all that. Quite the opposite. I feel happy that I helped someone, and I currently have four star armor and a five star weapon.
So?
I have nothing to say. Except maybe that grinding in SK isn't grinding. It's fun. That means it's not grinding. So you do it over and over and have lots if fun until you can get some cash.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 22:24
#11
Diggidy:
You might as well
Diggidy:
You might as well say the cost is free with that analogy since eventually you will make more then it takes to produce the item... for 3 Star weapons anyway, and possibly some 2 Star. Anything that has to deal with wanted weapons and wanted UV is cheap on the market and slowly not worth making as CE goes up.. Right now the lowest is 5296 per 100 so 52'.96' per.. Either way, again it depends more on what weapon you are selling, and if anyone else is not mass producing them and selling them cheap on the AH lol..
Lithanium:
I don't know if you mean Spiral Knights or something else... Other then that I don't get the point of the post besides "if you have energy, do runs and have fun". As for the first part, you seem like an amazing person and very nice. I'm glad Spiral Knights has people like you. :]
I now have Divine Veil 5*, Radiant Silvermail 5*, Dread Venom Striker 5*, Wise Owlite Shield 4*, Needle Shot 3*.
Basically my outfit is for looks... I am told I need to get Vog Cub underarmor for defense..
I no longer have CE lol
Same point, too expensive to buy right now..
But when I can, I'm going to get my Gray Owlite Shield Recipe then Shield and Look amazing. :D
Fri, 06/03/2011 - 07:18
#12
@Jesterz
@Jesterz
Although, you could be right Senshi, You might get more Mats to sell from a Treasure Vault that could make it more worth it.
I typically avoid Graveyards, and since I was taught to run like heck.
Then you received advise from someone that seriously did not know what they are doing. If you take it slow and don't activate too many zombies at a time GYs can be very easy and very profitable. My strategy is to equip a gun, something from the Blaster line will do, and step onto a grave and then back off and gun the awakened zombie down. Rinse and repeat until a shadow appears or you know one is coming, then dodge back to a clear area and deal with the shadow. I gun them down as well. This is even easier if you are using something from the Hail Driver line. If you just try to dash like a crazy person through the graveyard then all you are likely to earn is to be the newest guardian of said graveyard. >.> If you clear all the zombies you'll definantly have more materials to sell and even if you get a more valuable one from a TV the quantity of the GY will more than make up for it.
I prefer GYs to TVs because I like to play the game and I feel my 10 energy for the elevator is better spent because I actually get to fight monsters rather than boxes, crystals and the odd chromalisk.
Fri, 06/03/2011 - 15:50
#13
FSC drops 2k cr per floors in
FSC drops 2k cr per floors in avg. altho my 0~1 death runs begun when i had 3 5* pieces - mad bomber set + nitronome.
then i had 4* cali, 4* ice bomb, 4* defender shield.
on top, there are 5* recipe from basil, and 4~5* mats.
Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:54
#14
Crafting is profitable
You just have to find the recipes that are in hot demand and have good profit margins, just like anything else. As has already been stated using the recipe once is not profitable but for most items if you make and sell even two of them, then you're a BIT in the black and at the very least you've broken even. That means anything past that point is pure profit.
I'm currently crafting tier 1 items and making decent money. You just have to work the market a little bit. The first few days you'll run out of mist energy but once you start getting up and can always make an energy profit (through crowns) then you can always have a backup of CE to use for crafting or playing too!
You should also work the trade channel. Sometimes you'll find unbelievable deals. At others someone will offer something for an outrageous price. Simply advertise your item for 20%+ cheaper and you could be taking home a quite large profit margin as some users won't even check AH before laying down the cash.
Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:10
#15
I could make a long post
I could make a long post about it, but I've already done that so I'll keep it short here.
I make my money networking. I have a large friend list. And I have no intent to know every single one of them (and often get rid of ones I notice I never see). So what do I do with it? I drop in on half tier runs. No matter what tier, and what gate (usually I do stick to Jelly King). Anything past Basil. There's often someone without a full party for some reason or another (and if I know them well I can always ask them to go solo).
Alternatively, if I see a friend at d23, I can always ask what recipes are there so I can buy one off of them :D
Swordstone, Bushy Tail, Drake Scale, Unstable Core, Chroma Tear, Blaze Pepper, Perfect Snowball, Heavy Gear, Warp Dust, Ghost Bell, Mug of Misery, Meteor Mote, Trojan Horseshoe, Shadow Steel, Sun Silver, Phioloso Feather.
That is what i call fast and easy money.